Angryjoe's 2k take.

[antdoggydogg]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Wow...short summary. Publisher create video games to entertain people while creating some sense of progression and a reward system that make people want to continue playing the game.

No sh*t, Sherlock.

I guess I must have an addiction to Popeye's, because I going back for their chicken.

Seriously why are people surprised. Isn't this stuff painfully obvious as soon as you start playing one of these games. If you don't like it don't support it by putting money into it. I never put money into the MyTeam or MyCareer mode.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

but let’s not pretend this wasn’t partly a result of consumers refusing to pay a dollar more than $60 for a product that gets more and more expensive to put out every year.

But what do I know. I’m not the one living in the fantasy world where inflation goes up every year but the cost of my hobby stays exactly the same with zero consequences...

The price of a movie ticket 20 years ago was like 4 bucks. How many theaters would still be in business at this point? How many movie studios, for that matter?

Video games are more expensive to make and sell for less money today than at any point in the history of the hobby. More studios close every year because simply selling a full $60 game is not enough to turn a profit for most of them. The ones thriving today are the ones that take in the supplemental online revenue. That’s the reality of 2019, and no amount of moral panic is going to solve that problem.

It's just a joke now. All you can do is really watch it from the side and be like haha. It's like they're trolling the people who defended them.


But let me counter this. I had a 'discussion' with a friend about video stores. Dudes talking about "in 1987", "10 years ago, 20 years ago" should remember them. I was talking about how I missed going around in them and looking at the movies or games to rent, going to different stores, the fact that you could find some rare stuff in certain for-buy stores, or some of the few rare games I was able to cop by being super lucky when niche stores closed down. IN GENERAL, sure having all digital stuff is more convenient and IN GENERAL you can probably get most everything, but I have a reason that it doesn't work as well FOR ME.



Leaving morality aside, because nobody wants to go there (if only because it's such a losing argument in this case haha), the issue that I have with micros is I plan on going deeper on the game than most people do. Some people might play more hours than me, but they are probably not going to explore the game as much as I do. So, the game is 60 + an assumed 'normal' 40 or 60 or whatever VC it costs to max ONE PLAYER. However, each player you want to max, you have to face that same cost or grind relentlessly. In probably every game I can think of, even with micros, they don't have this problem, because most of the stuff you buy for micros is probably account based... or not?



There would be a lot more interest if it was like buy the 'every myplayer starts at 85 with silver badges' ticket, but I still don't know if I'd pull the trigger. Micros aren't designed to be a little extra bonus to get a little extra money, that's what expansion packs and DLC are. Micros, especially in 2ks case, are unlimited. You cannot ever spend any amount of money that will allow you free reign. You could spend 1000 dollars, make a player and pour 50 bucks into them, and then delete them... would it be stupid, yeah, but you can do that. Isn't that pretty crazy? You're not buying access, you're not buying a 5% experience boost for the rest of your characters' lives or some special mount, you're paying as you go to upgrade your player... for as long and as many players as you can pay. That's the flaw. It's the same with my team if you think about it.


That's why micros in a competitive (because nobody would pay money if these modes weren't competitive let's be real) sports game are asinine. You yourself basically said they have to find a way to trick people into spending more money, even if you kind of excused it. There are way more ethical ways to do it, and dude was right when he said... this is going to get some lawsuits unless 2k has some ability to avoid it. Putting slot machines in anything meant for kids that simultaneously involves real money (even if not directly on the same plane) is some face palm level stuff, it's like they are asking for it.


Edit: and whether you look down on people who play online or think they are all cheesy 12 year olds, it's probably better to abstain from the discussion if you 'don't play the modes.' That's not a good argument, either.



And if you play them for serious without paying, then you're not the better person like you think (like we all wanted to think) you are fodder for the people who did and your own wasted time, blood, sweat, and carpal tunnel are probably worth more to 2k than the people who drop 20 on it. "Look at that brown shirt... sad."



-Smak

[Kid OS]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Are the angry people gonna skip and not buy 2K20, or yall just gonna keep arguing on the internet?

What does that have to do with anything? Many people, myself included, are speaking for those who can't speak up for themselves. Me not buying NBA2K20 isn't going to matter to someone who is addicted to the practices that Take Two is exhibiting. What will matter to them is the fact that I am willing to call out Take Two on their practices. This is no different from having a supervisor position at your job, and standing up to your manager on behalf of one of your associates. Yeah, I still work for my manager, but I'm not going to let them take advantage of our associate, regardless of how my manager treats me. I don't see how hard this is to understand. Pretty much 98% of this thread is people who WILL NOT spend a single dime on VC, and most likely will never play the slot machine (me included). The problem is that out of the 98%, way too many of us have the, "Well, it doesn't affect me, so it must not be an issue" approach to the situation. This dangerous mindset is the backbone of every sneaky and conniving tactic these publishers use to desensitize their user bases. Everything that is wrong with these games are the result of consumer ignorance and "as long as it benefits me" attitudes.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

What does that have to do with anything? Many people, myself included, are speaking for those who can't speak up for themselves. Me not buying NBA2K20 isn't going to matter to someone who is addicted to the practices that Take Two is exhibiting. What will matter to them is the fact that I am willing to call out Take Two on their practices. This is no different from having a supervisor position at your job, and standing up to your manager on behalf of one of your associates. Yeah, I still work for my manager, but I'm not going to let them take advantage of our associate, regardless of how my manager treats me. I don't see how hard this is to understand. Pretty much 98% of this thread is people who WILL NOT spend a single dime on VC, and most likely will never play the slot machine (me included). The problem is that out of the 98%, way too many of us have the, "Well, it doesn't affect me, so it must not be an issue" approach to the situation. This dangerous mindset is the backbone of every sneaky and conniving tactic these publishers use to desensitize their user bases. Everything that is wrong with these games are the result of consumer ignorance and "as long as it benefits me" attitudes.

Who are we standing up for?

Say they get rid of the slot machine due to this "backlash"

Now, MyTeam users have one less way of obtaining resources...something they've continuously asked for. Guess what this will only push them towards? *gasp* ....when they could have just been playing the mode to get these bonuses...

Now, you've gotten rid of something that has actually been requested by the fanbase because you didnt like the optics and didn't understand it.

If we are really that concerned about the consumer let's stop moving the goalposts to to support our personal feelings and address what is actually going on.

[23]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Man stop it

If it was a real outrage then y'all would do like those Star wars nerds did but you won't.

When y'all are done writing these weak dissertations on operation sports you're going to fork over money for the game like you never said a word.

The difference between them and y'all, in terms of speaking with your pocketbook, 2K fans are speaking loudly with their pockets in favor of virtual clothes and whatever else is there.

In short you keep whining and they keep spending more and the majority of them are doing it because they choose to and millions actually enjoy it.

...but let's keep up this fraud facade instead.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[Fist Of Kings]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Lots of people(including myself) praise 2k since their games aren't bad like the current madden games are, but this goes to show that when a company goes unchallenged, THIS is the result. When I got the email for the 'new features' for 2k20, I couldn't believe that the only thing shown was a damn gambling system.


This is perhaps the most blatant and tasteless 'feature' I've ever seen in any video game. And the forced reactions from the annoying yes men obviously paid to hype the game(one guy didn't even have his controller on apparently) remind me of why I don't like or watch those types of youtubers in the first place.


Even though I don't play these money grubbing modes in either 2k or madden, I'm annoyed by how there are reminders of them in the menus. This practice needs to end.

[zrohman]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

MT cannot be purchased with real money. Invalid comparison. Simulated gambling is not in fact a real thing. I can’t even say it without laughing my *** off. Moral panic.

Clearly, 2K doesn’t think they’re bulletproof because they’ve been extremely careful to keep their VC currency away from these minigames. The fact is if you put in the time, the game gives away so much VC that you would have to be the worst player on earth to need to purchase it for anything other than MyTeam packs. I literally bought 8 super sized boxes of cards last month because I didn’t know what else to spend my mountain of surplus VC on. And I don’t even play MyTeam. I couldn’t even auction off all of my diamond cards because I hadn’t played any games in the mode.

This is utterly false.

I played a good 50 plus hours worth of games, along with using the app. And I spent $30 in VC. I was still only a 75. I don't have time to spend 500 hours in game.

95% of people without a life can't get to an 85 rating by the end of the year. To truly enjoy the game, most people should be able to get to a good rating about half way through so they can have fun with a really good player and compete. What's the point of fighting to the top of you just get off the game as soon as the year is over?

As a casual player who didn't spend money, I didn't even crack an 80 rating by the end of the year.

Please, tell me that you don't have to spend money.... Of course you don't. You can just play 20 hours a day for 5 months to get to an 80 rating.

I think they calculated the hours it takes to get to a 95 rating. I'm pretty sure it was in the thousands.

Yeah.... Most people have to spend $20 to $40.... Minimum, if they have any life, and that's just so they can compete as an 85 by mid season. $30 will just get you to a 75ish honestly

[zrohman]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Asking for a Teen rating sticker on the cover is one thing, which I would probably agree with, and its also something I don't think would affect their sales much since parents just see it as a basketball game. But I think its naive to expect a company to look out for the best interests of people who may or may not have gambling addictions, or prevent kids from being exposed to an image of a slot machine. That part feels like 2019 fake outrage to me. They're in it to make money. It's the consumers job to practice self-control

The outrage isn't about kids simply being exposed to gambling.

Think about it.

What do you have to lose?

I pull a slot machine, let's say I win 200 VC. That's a big letdown right? It's practically like I put a quarter in and got nothing. It simulates the feeling of gambling. You FEEL like you lost something... Because you lost your free spin of the day. Yes it was free... But be honest with yourself... You don't just say oh well it was free. Your spinning hoping and expecting to gain a great deal of stuff. When you know there's a chance to win much more and you lose that, it's a sinking feeling.

Now imagine when you hit the jackpot. 25k VC. All the letdowns and disappointments and losses turn into joy. Just like at a casino when you win at a slot machine, you will jump for joy.

It might be limited to once a day, but it will get very addicting. They are using these things simply to get you addicted to the game.

Nothing in itself is super wrong with that. Except they are using addicting elements and simulated gambling as a way to mask micro transactions.

Look.... We give you free stuff. We give you a CHANCE to win big prizes.... This game isn't pay to win.... After all, we give you the 2k app, where you can earn 475 VC per day (to earn it you are forced to play through a card game, which also simulates some addictive stuff). We give you spins on the big wheel. We give you slot machines. It's not pay to win..... .

That's their justification for not continuing this pay to win garbage, where I can be a top prospect out of high school with a 55 rating. Or where I can spend $20 on VC and still be under a 70 rating.

This stuff does need to get banned from games. I don't blame 2k for trying to make as much money as possible, they know they have free marketing through NBA players, they have a huge cultural following. So they take advantage.

They know my team and the rush from finding your favorite player is addictive, so they add as many addictive elements to try to keep you coming back, they add a wheel, slot machines, everything. All of this is simply a way to mask micro transactions as no big deal, and to keep you addicted to playing the game.

2k will keep doing it, but it's a huge issue, hopefully they fix it, especially when they are adding addictive elements for kids.

[Kid OS]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Who are we standing up for?

Say they get rid of the slot machine due to this "backlash"

Now, MyTeam users have one less way of obtaining resources...something they've continuously asked for. Guess what this will only push them towards? *gasp* ....when they could have just been playing the mode to get these bonuses...

Now, you've gotten rid of something that has actually been requested by the fanbase because you didnt like the optics and didn't understand it.

If we are really that concerned about the consumer let's stop moving the goalposts to to support our personal feelings and address what is actually going on.

You can get rid of the slot machine UI and still achieve the same end result. If the system isn't gambling, then 2K can remove the slot machine and just give players random gifts at the end of games. But they won't do that because the slot machine was a strategical implementation. Anyone who says otherwise...

Man stop it

If it was a real outrage then y'all would do like those Star wars nerds did but you won't.

When y'all are done writing these weak dissertations on operation sports you're going to fork over money for the game like you never said a word.

The difference between them and y'all, in terms of speaking with your pocketbook, 2K fans are speaking loudly with their pockets in favor of virtual clothes and whatever else is there.

In short you keep whining and they keep spending more and the majority of them are doing it because they choose to and millions actually enjoy it.

...but let's keep up this fraud facade instead.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

If the outrage was fake, there wouldn't be countries looking into these types of gaming mechanics and discussing how to combat them. You're trying to say that I'm fake outraged, even though you wasted at least 12 valuable minutes of your life responding to me. We are both in the same boat. You've obviously gotten upset to some extent, so that just proves that this is a real issue we are discussing. No one in here is in a position to tell someone else what to do with their hard earned money. Not once have I alluded to boycotting 2K or anything like that. I, for one, do speak with my pockets every year. I spend at least 35$ on the game because I believe it is worth every penny and then some. Supporting 2K and it's devs with my $60 a year is my way of saying, "Thank you for providing the most in depth sports title of all time." Not spending a single dime over $60 and voicing my displeasure on OS is my way of saying, "Take Two's greed is destroying this game." Both of those sentiments are exactly how I feel when it comes to NBA 2K. There is nothing fake about it. It will all be very real in a few years when some serious changes get made. Goodnight mates

EDIT: The "star wars nerds" line made me giggle

[ILLSmak]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Man stop it

If it was a real outrage then y'all would do like those Star wars nerds did but you won't.

When y'all are done writing these weak dissertations on operation sports you're going to fork over money for the game like you never said a word.

The difference between them and y'all, in terms of speaking with your pocketbook, 2K fans are speaking loudly with their pockets in favor of virtual clothes and whatever else is there.

In short you keep whining and they keep spending more and the majority of them are doing it because they choose to and millions actually enjoy it.

...but let's keep up this fraud facade instead.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

I see you. haha.


#neverforget



-Smak

[Kid OS]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

The outrage isn't about kids simply being exposed to gambling.

Think about it.

What do you have to lose?

I pull a slot machine, let's say I win 200 VC. That's a big letdown right? It's practically like I put a quarter in and got nothing. It simulates the feeling of gambling. You FEEL like you lost something... Because you lost your free spin of the day. Yes it was free... But be honest with yourself... You don't just say oh well it was free. Your spinning hoping and expecting to gain a great deal of stuff. When you know there's a chance to win much more and you lose that, it's a sinking feeling.

Now imagine when you hit the jackpot. 25k VC. All the letdowns and disappointments and losses turn into joy. Just like at a casino when you win at a slot machine, you will jump for joy.

It might be limited to once a day, but it will get very addicting. They are using these things simply to get you addicted to the game.

Nothing in itself is super wrong with that. Except they are using addicting elements and simulated gambling as a way to mask micro transactions.

Look.... We give you free stuff. We give you a CHANCE to win big prizes.... This game isn't pay to win.... After all, we give you the 2k app, where you can earn 475 VC per day (to earn it you are forced to play through a card game, which also simulates some addictive stuff). We give you spins on the big wheel. We give you slot machines. It's not pay to win..... .

That's their justification for not continuing this pay to win garbage, where I can be a top prospect out of high school with a 55 rating. Or where I can spend $20 on VC and still be under a 70 rating.

This stuff does need to get banned from games. I don't blame 2k for trying to make as much money as possible, they know they have free marketing through NBA players, they have a huge cultural following. So they take advantage.

They know my team and the rush from finding your favorite player is addictive, so they add as many addictive elements to try to keep you coming back, they add a wheel, slot machines, everything. All of this is simply a way to mask micro transactions as no big deal, and to keep you addicted to playing the game.

2k will keep doing it, but it's a huge issue, hopefully they fix it, especially when they are adding addictive elements for kids.

I'm glad you came in with this eloquent example mate. Regardless of whether or not people think this slot machine is actual gambling, the emotional responses and serotonin releases simulate actual gambling. This whole "outrage" could have been avoided if 2K simply GAVE you a random gift, instead of giving you a CHANCE to get a random gift. Yeah, you always get something in return, but you pull that handle hoping to get something great! The better approach would have been to give users a random gift as soon as they load into the main menu. If they wanna give out tokens, just give them as soon as we load up MyTeam. This is the way they would've gone about it if there were no ulterior motives at play.

[tt500]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

I dont get why the gambling and how the whole big focus is on loot box gambling mechanics. The bigger question people should be asking the risk of creating addiction to minors as old as 3.

The rewards and casino type payout for these free rewards can be harmful to children. Basically if they win and spin the wheel, bad/good outcones generate endorphins that can cause many people to get addicted.

All these mechanics are to get players hooked. Players who are hooked to a game are more likely to purchase VC. Just look at candy crush as an example and what they were able to acconplish by creating a addicting game.

So should kids really be playing a game that is trying to get them addicted to playing. Kids are more vulnerable to these tactics and that is why the mode should not be for minors.

But this fight isnt for us or the 2k community. There is a bigger picture with addiction and using gambling philosophy in a game targeting kids as young as 3.

[23]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

You can get rid of the slot machine UI and still achieve the same end result. If the system isn't gambling, then 2K can remove the slot machine and just give players random gifts at the end of games. But they won't do that because the slot machine was a strategical implementation. Anyone who says otherwise...

If the outrage was fake, there wouldn't be countries looking into these types of gaming mechanics and discussing how to combat them. You're trying to say that I'm fake outraged, even though you wasted at least 12 valuable minutes of your life responding to me. We are both in the same boat. You've obviously gotten upset to some extent, so that just proves that this is a real issue we are discussing. No one in here is in a position to tell someone else what to do with their hard earned money. Not once have I alluded to boycotting 2K or anything like that. I, for one, do speak with my pockets every year. I spend at least 35$ on the game because I believe it is worth every penny and then some. Supporting 2K and it's devs with my $60 a year is my way of saying, "Thank you for providing the most in depth sports title of all time." Not spending a single dime over $60 and voicing my displeasure on OS is my way of saying, "Take Two's greed is destroying this game." Both of those sentiments are exactly how I feel when it comes to NBA 2K. There is nothing fake about it. It will all be very real in a few years when some serious changes get made. Goodnight mates

EDIT: The "star wars nerds" line made me giggle

Are the angry people gonna skip and not buy 2K20, or yall just gonna keep arguing on the internet?

Your answer tells me all I need to know about this conversation yall have going on.

[olajuwon34]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

i laughed when he just started watching the trailer and saw a pack and spazzed out, but really, isn't 2k successful enough with just the borderline gambling in packs? why add these features and mechanics and bring even more negative attention towards you, there's no way their this tone deaf and oblivious


Also esrb and pegi rating systems are useless, back in the day they had a big influence on people playing games especially younger people or kids, but now they realize its best if everyone purchases games

[StealthBlade98]

Re: Angryjoe's 2k take.

Ugh at this "Rated E", "Think of the children" rhetoric..

Like Sonic 2's Casino Night corrupted us all growing up, lol

You're not seriously comparing that game with this. Sorry but this is just the worst game to bring up for your point.

That zone was pretty much a pinball machine, there was nothing close to what 2k20 has for a slot machine or pachinkos.

My main point was that a lot of people just don't care. 2K doesn't care because they think they are bullet proof on this. Otherwise they wouldn't be doubling down and trolling people with an actual slot machine.

They are bullet proof, they've been pushing the bar of what to get away with on GTA since GTA3, they're not going to be touched by ESRB or Congress at this point. If they can get away with GTA having drugs, strippers and all sorts of stuff in the game they'll definitely get away with it for nba2k.