2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

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  • Vince
    Bow for Bau
    • Aug 2002
    • 26017

    #781
    Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

    Originally posted by OSUFan_88
    Raise your hand if you are obviously biased?

    Yeah, I'm done arguing with UCONN fans about how a midget of a scorer isn't going to translate into the NBA.
    Why exactly do you think he can't be a PG.

    Midget? Chill dude. His measurable are solid. Legit 6'1 in shoes, like ummm, Chris Paul.

    How about some insight about why he can't be a PG in the league.
    @ me or dap me

    http://twitter.com/52isthemike

    Comment

    • ex carrabba fan
      I'll thank him for you
      • Oct 2004
      • 32744

      #782
      Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

      Hahahah. You guys.

      I know what OSU means with Irving though, despite the Nash/Deron ill-advised comparisons [no offense OSU].

      I like both Kemba and Irving more than Knight. Kemba is obviously a different type of PG than Irving. There's no disputing that. Even though I disagree with OSU's assessment of Kemba, OSU simply doesn't want that type of PG.

      I do think Kemba can run the PG just fine. At least as a backup to begin with. Look at the abundance of similar sized and similar playing style PG's like him in the NBA who thrive.

      Now with Irving, he has a ton to prove obviously. A lot of people, including OSU are basically using a handful of games to make their judgements. I like his feel for the game and his supposed scoring ability. I could honestly see all three of these PG's not ever being All-Stars though

      Comment

      • Vince
        Bow for Bau
        • Aug 2002
        • 26017

        #783
        Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

        I want nothing of Knight at all man. All Raptor fans are going gaga over him though.

        Kemba reminds me of Kenny Anderson a bit.
        @ me or dap me

        http://twitter.com/52isthemike

        Comment

        • ChaseB
          #BringBackFaceuary
          • Oct 2003
          • 9844

          #784
          Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

          Originally posted by Vince
          I want nothing of Knight at all man. All Raptor fans are going gaga over him though.

          Kemba reminds me of Kenny Anderson a bit.
          I'm rather high on Knight as well, so the Toronto fans are my people in this case.
          I won't ask for Christmas or birthday gifts if you subscribe to the Operation Sports Newsletter (Not Just Another Roster Update). I write it, and it hits your inbox every Friday morning (for freeeeeee). We also have an official OS Discord you can now join.

          Comment

          • OSUFan_88
            Outback Jesus
            • Jul 2004
            • 25642

            #785
            Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

            Originally posted by Vince
            Why exactly do you think he can't be a PG.

            Midget? Chill dude. His measurable are solid. Legit 6'1 in shoes, like ummm, Chris Paul.

            How about some insight about why he can't be a PG in the league.
            Chris Paul is effective because the guy has the best court vision of anyone in the NBA. It's not because he's a great scorer or because he can run fast. Chris Paul can make quick movements and see the floor better than anyone.

            And while Kemba can certainly use the quicks, his court vision isn't even close to Chris Paul. He's also only averaged 4 assists a game, which shows that either he's a bad passer, didn't see the lanes or is selfish. Chris Paul also was much more efficent from the floor in college, with a 49.6% average and a 46% FG average. Kemba, the two years he played meaningful minutes: 40.2% and 42.8%

            Now, I'm not saying Kemba will be a flat out bust, nor am I trying to prove that. However, Kemba is not worthy of passing on Kyrie Irving. Irving is a better player, and showed how much of a better player he was when he played this year. He was more efficient than Kemba while seeing the court about the same, although we are comparing a freshman who played 11 games to a Junior who played 111 games.

            Simply put, passing on Kyrie Irving for Kemba Walker, or saying they will be about the same, would be foolishness. Kemba will not be an all-star in the NBA, he probably won't even be a starter in the NBA with his size and lack of passing ability.
            Too Old To Game Club

            Urban Meyer is lol.

            Comment

            • OSUFan_88
              Outback Jesus
              • Jul 2004
              • 25642

              #786
              Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

              Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
              I know what OSU means with Irving though, despite the Nash/Deron ill-advised comparisons [no offense OSU].
              I'd like to hear a better one. I think the Deron Williams one is bang on, actually.
              Too Old To Game Club

              Urban Meyer is lol.

              Comment

              • 1Rose
                Banned
                • Jun 2011
                • 2562

                #787
                Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by OSUFan_88
                Chris Paul is effective because the guy has the best court vision of anyone in the NBA. It's not because he's a great scorer or because he can run fast. Chris Paul can make quick movements and see the floor better than anyone.

                And while Kemba can certainly use the quicks, his court vision isn't even close to Chris Paul. He's also only averaged 4 assists a game, which shows that either he's a bad passer, didn't see the lanes or is selfish. Chris Paul also was much more efficent from the floor in college, with a 49.6% average and a 46% FG average. Kemba, the two years he played meaningful minutes: 40.2% and 42.8%

                Now, I'm not saying Kemba will be a flat out bust, nor am I trying to prove that. However, Kemba is not worthy of passing on Kyrie Irving. Irving is a better player, and showed how much of a better player he was when he played this year. He was more efficient than Kemba while seeing the court about the same, although we are comparing a freshman who played 11 games to a Junior who played 111 games.

                Simply put, passing on Kyrie Irving for Kemba Walker, or saying they will be about the same, would be foolishness. Kemba will not be an all-star in the NBA, he probably won't even be a starter in the NBA with his size and lack of passing ability.
                Pretty much all of this.

                Can't believe a comparison to Chris Paul was even mentioned in the first place.

                Comment

                • ex carrabba fan
                  I'll thank him for you
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 32744

                  #788
                  Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                  Originally posted by OSUFan_88
                  I'd like to hear a better one. I think the Deron Williams one is bang on, actually.
                  Deron Williams is just a more powerful PG period. He's one of the most beastly PG's the league has seen in quite sometime. The dude is a like a bowling ball when he gets into the lane, can take contact and shrug it off. He's simply bigger than Irving.

                  Skill wise and approach wise, it's hard to really judge that closely because Irving only played in 10 or so games. From HS and the limited college time, I honestly don't see how Irving plays that closely to D-Will.

                  I honestly am reminded of a more pure PG and larger Ty Lawson. I honestly do like the CP3 comparison, but I don't know if he'll ever come close to CP3's impact. To me they play a very similar style of ball though.

                  Comment

                  • Vince
                    Bow for Bau
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26017

                    #789
                    Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                    I feel a low assists total in college really doesn't mean a guy can't be a high assist guy in the NBA. Rondo had low assist numbers, so did Russell Westbrooke I believe.

                    JG: See I don't really know where this Kemba Walker is a combo guard thing started. I was looking at the analysis Dean Oliver did on ESPN a couple days ago where he was comparing Kemba and Brandon Knight.

                    Dean Oliver is the godfather of course of NBA Advanced Statistics, he could have a job right now with any team in the NBA. So when he writes something like this, more-so than any other analyst in this NBA draft, that's the guy I'm going to pay attention to, and when he said that the average PPR (pure point rating) of a starting point guard in the NBA is 1.2 in college and Kemba Walker's PPR is 1.5, that stands out. And his assist to turnover ratio is 2.0.

                    At the beginning of this year people were looking at UCONN saying “Jim Calhoun did a terrible job because they don't have any talent, they're not going to make the NCAA tournament, this guy is over the hill, time for him to retire” stuff like that. And what do they do? Not only do they get to the tournament, but they win the whole thing.

                    And the only reason they were able to do that, without a shred of a doubt, was because of Kemba Walker on their team. I know, he was a scorer this year but he needed to be a scorer. He did put up big scoring numbers, not always in the most efficient way, but that was because of the team that he had. He had a bunch of freshmen beside him and from seeing him when they were out in Maui at the start of the year, he had to do everything.

                    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...#ixzz1PviNshMS
                    http://www.draftexpress.com
                    @ me or dap me

                    http://twitter.com/52isthemike

                    Comment

                    • OSUFan_88
                      Outback Jesus
                      • Jul 2004
                      • 25642

                      #790
                      Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                      Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                      Deron Williams is just a more powerful PG period. He's one of the most beastly PG's the league has seen in quite sometime. The dude is a like a bowling ball when he gets into the lane, can take contact and shrug it off. He's simply bigger than Irving.
                      Deron Williams is only 11 pounds heavier and they are both 6-3.

                      Just sayin man...just sayin...
                      Too Old To Game Club

                      Urban Meyer is lol.

                      Comment

                      • ex carrabba fan
                        I'll thank him for you
                        • Oct 2004
                        • 32744

                        #791
                        Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                        Originally posted by OSUFan_88
                        Deron Williams is only 11 pounds heavier and they are both 6-3.

                        Just sayin man...just sayin...
                        Na man, right now Williams has 20 pounds or so.

                        Not saying Irving won't bulk up, but Irving measured out at 191 and DWill is listed at 207, but to be honest, I think they're fudging on that listing. He's huge for a PG.

                        Besides body shape and size, the way Irving plays doesn't quite remind me of DWill. Irving is so damn creative once he gets to the hoop it seriously reminds me of the cleverness of Lawson and Paul. The way he gets to the hoop as well with the quick busts in small spaces are very reminiscent of Lawson and Paul. Williams has that burst too but honestly doesn't strike me the same way Lawson/Paul comparisons do. Just the way they finish around the hoop and the way they operate and break down the defense.

                        Comment

                        • bigeastbumrush
                          My Momma's Son
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 19245

                          #792
                          Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                          Originally posted by OSUFan_88
                          Chris Paul is effective because the guy has the best court vision of anyone in the NBA. It's not because he's a great scorer or because he can run fast. Chris Paul can make quick movements and see the floor better than anyone.

                          And while Kemba can certainly use the quicks, his court vision isn't even close to Chris Paul. He's also only averaged 4 assists a game, which shows that either he's a bad passer, didn't see the lanes or is selfish. Chris Paul also was much more efficent from the floor in college, with a 49.6% average and a 46% FG average. Kemba, the two years he played meaningful minutes: 40.2% and 42.8%

                          Now, I'm not saying Kemba will be a flat out bust, nor am I trying to prove that. However, Kemba is not worthy of passing on Kyrie Irving. Irving is a better player, and showed how much of a better player he was when he played this year. He was more efficient than Kemba while seeing the court about the same, although we are comparing a freshman who played 11 games to a Junior who played 111 games.

                          Simply put, passing on Kyrie Irving for Kemba Walker, or saying they will be about the same, would be foolishness. Kemba will not be an all-star in the NBA, he probably won't even be a starter in the NBA with his size and lack of passing ability.
                          Seriously, how many games have you seen Kemba play?

                          I realize you're all psyched up to have the #1 pick and Kyrie on the Cavs, but it sounds like you're just throwing stuff out there just to say it.

                          And if Kyrie is so hot, why didn't he go up against any of the PGs that called him out or workout in front of anyone FWIW?

                          Even Jay Williams would caution you to slow down right about now..

                          Comment

                          • 1Rose
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2011
                            • 2562

                            #793
                            Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                            Originally posted by Vince
                            I feel a low assists total in college really doesn't mean a guy can't be a high assist guy in the NBA. Rondo had low assist numbers, so did Russell Westbrooke I believe.
                            How many times you going to post that article?

                            Rondo didn't play near the minutes Walker did and still was only .3 PG less. Russell only played one year of real minutes and was a scorer. Collison was the PG on that team.

                            Has anyone ever said that Westbrook was a passing PG anyway? He's always been looked at as a 2 playing the 1.

                            I'm with OSU_Fan all the way here on his assessment of Walker. He's a SG in a PG body and proved so at UCONN by jacking up the 2nd most field goal attempts in the country, only to Jimmer. That's not indicative of a play making PG.

                            What he did as a back up PG in High School is meaningless. The things he did in college, he's not going to be able to do consistently in the pros. His speed and change of pace will allow him to get some buckets, but he doesn't have the court vision and passing ability to make players in the NBA honor that.

                            Comment

                            • Vince
                              Bow for Bau
                              • Aug 2002
                              • 26017

                              #794
                              Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                              Cause the pure point rating by Dean Oliver, while not perfect has proven to be quite effective in judging how a PG translate from College to the NBA.
                              @ me or dap me

                              http://twitter.com/52isthemike

                              Comment

                              • The Big Squeezy
                                Pro
                                • May 2011
                                • 796

                                #795
                                Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                                No clue if it's been mentioned, but I just saw a tweet from Adrian Wojnarowski that the Cavs are trying to get a 3rd pick in the 1st round by using our two second round picks and some cash.

                                Also, I have this gut feeling that Kemba will be the best point guard to come out of this draft. Don't ask me why because I don't know why, it's just a gut feeling. I think when we look back on this draft in 5 years the PG ranking will go:

                                Walker
                                Irving
                                Knight
                                Browns
                                Cavaliers
                                Indians
                                Buckeyes
                                Originally posted by snepp
                                Ken Dilger, weapon.
                                Someone needs to set this thread on fire.

                                Comment

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