CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

There's plenty of talent around the world contraction won't solve anything. If all the elite talent all play on the few teams then the small market team suffer. I will admit since this is the way the league has operated for decades I thought it was a good thing, but now I think the NBA has it wrong. The key to a successful association is parity or at the very least perceived parity. It's hard for some fans(not me) to support losers.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

When people didnt have to look at the game like its a business, then it was a different story

All of this love of the game talk has gone out the door. Here is where all the MJ comparisons fail, because they would never take the kind of abuse he took in the league for a 2-4 million dollar salary and not complain about how much the owners make

Then there was always that backside to David Stern only really putting focus on a couple of teams and a few players...now you see the smaller neglected teams suffer from it. NY hasnt won jack in how many years yet they stayed in the news even if it was just from mumbo jumbo rumors.

Either way... there were times where players had too much say so in certain matters and I think the owners, especially newer ones dont want to play that kind of game.

[Court_vision]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Man, where are all these people coming from with the "you and I can earn as much as we want" stuff.......

Public Nurses, Teachers, staff in hospitals, police....they all have restrictions. Even if you are the best policeman in town, there's a limit to how much you can earn. Wages are capped by awards.

If we had no salary cap in the NBA............we'd have 3 teams with 200 million dollar pay rolls full of all stars. The Knicks and Lakers could bankroll super teams and "pay these guys as much as they want" easily if we didn't have a salary cap.

But the game would die. 29 other teams would be non competitive. Results would be predictable. Smaller markets would be dead in the water.

There's a reason why most sports have salary caps.

If you don't believe me, go and watch the English Premier League football. Same three teams win over and over and over and over, year after year. A smaller team gets a good player and he's instantly bought by Man U or Chelsea. No other team can even compete. The only thing that keeps smaller teams interested is European qualification + relegation. Things not possible in American sports. In terms of winning the championship, 98% of teams never have a chance.

All you guys saying "no cap, pay what they are worth".....go and watch the EPL.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Man, where are all these people coming from with the "you and I can earn as much as we want" stuff.......

Public Nurses, Teachers, staff in hospitals, police....they all have restrictions. Even if you the best policeman in town, there's a limit to how much you can earn. Wages are capped by awards.

If we had no salary cap in the NBA............we'd have 3 teams with 200 million dollar pay rolls full of all stars. The Knicks and Lakers could bankroll super teams and "pay these guys as much as they want" easily if we didn't have a salary cap.

But the game would die. 29 other teams would be non competitive. Results would be predictable. Smaller markets would be dead in the water.

There's a reason why most sports have salary caps.

If you don't believe me, go and watch the English Premier League football. Same three teams win over and over and over and over, year after year. A smaller team gets a good player and he's instantly bought by Man U or Chelsea. No other team can even compete. The only thing that keeps smaller teams interested is European qualuification + relegation. Things not possible in American sports. In terms of winning the championship, 98% of teams never have a chance.

All you guys saying "no cap, pay what they are worth".....go and watch the EPL.

Nobodies denying that they're shouldn't be a cap what we(me more specifically) is saying is that it should be based on revenue.

Using cops for reference. Certain cops make more on average in different districts, because some districts have bigger budgets.

That's why I say what they make should be %based.

And generally the elite people make more money. The better you are at generating revenue the more revenue you get in most cases.

[SPTO]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Nobodies denying that they're shouldn't be a cap what we(me more specifically) is saying is that it should be based on revenue.

So basically you want an NHL style cap....The same cap that has a salary floor today that's 20 million dollars more than the ceiling was just 3-4 years ago.

You're still going to have an issue where smaller market teams are going to struggle especially if their revenues aren't as strong as the median league revenues.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The problem with contraction and why it won't happen is it decreases the revenue the league will generate as a whole. 26-28 teams is not going to generate the same dollars that 30 teams are going to generate. The Lakers, Bulls, Knicks and Celtics aren't going to suddenly bring in a few billion extra dollars after teams in markets like Cleveland or Toronto or wherever you're contracting loose they're only reasons to watch hoops and go to games.

But with contraction, you cut the losses as well. So yes, you don't generate as much revenue BUT you significantly cut your debt.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

So basically you want an NHL style cap....The same cap that has a salary floor today that's 20 million dollars more than the ceiling was just 3-4 years ago.

You're still going to have an issue where smaller market teams are going to struggle especially if their revenues aren't as strong as the median league revenues.

I'm not familiar with hockey. I wasn't talking about a salary cap per team, but a cap on players percentages of overall revenue generated by the sport.

[SPTO]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I'm not familiar with hockey. I wasn't talking about a salary cap per team, but a cap on players percentages of overall revenue generated by the sport.

The NHL has a floating cap whereby it's generated based on overall league revenue with a salary floor and salary cap. The way you worded it sounded a lot like the way the NHL does it.

The cap max after the NHL lockout was at 39 Mil with an individual cap on a player's salary at 7.8 Mil (20% of the team's cap) Today the salary cap is at 59.4 Mil with the individual player cap at 11.88 Mil.

The Salary Floor after the lockout was originally set at 55% of the cap but is now defined as being 16 Mil below the cap.

As you can see a system like that is very flawed if overall revenues of the league goes up yet the bottom feeders may not be generating tons of revenue will have to spend way beyond their means just to reach the salary floor.

That's why (and i'm not directing this at you since there may have been a miscommunication) the floating cap option tied into revenues that some people are angling for would put the league in pretty much the same situation its in already.

[sharks]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I think an NHL-style cap system would work the best.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

But with contraction, you cut the losses as well. So yes, you don't generate as much revenue BUT you significantly cut your debt.

True, but the owners are way too greedy to turn away from those potential dollars that could be made which is why they'd rather make the players make all the changes and give up everything as opposed to do things like that and increase revenue sharing among other things.

BTW, who is calling for no salary cap? I don't think I've seen anybody say that anywhere. Not directed at you Dice.

[Court_vision]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Barkley Believes 11-12 Season Will Be Canceled

Jul 02, 2011 10:52 AM EDT

Charles Barkley, the Hall of Fame player who now spends most of his time broadcasting games for TNT, had an extremely pessimistic take on the NBA lockout, which began earlier this week.
"It's going to get ugly. I've already been on the record saying I don't think they're going to play at all next season," he said.

[WTF]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

For the record, I've NEVER said that I wanted contraction. I'm saying that's what it's ultimately going to lead to, if the owners don't get what they're asking for here. If you aren't profitable, then naturally, either the team will move to a market where they will be profitable, or they'll fold.

And then the players who are so hung up on their % of revenue, will be out of the league. NEVER would I be an advocate of contraction. I like the league the way it is.

[Mintsa]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Didnt espn or SI release a list of the teams that actually make a profit ???

Does anyone have a link to it ?

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

For the record, I've NEVER said that I wanted contraction. I'm saying that's what it's ultimately going to lead to, if the owners don't get what they're asking for here. If you aren't profitable, then naturally, either the team will move to a market where they will be profitable, or they'll fold.

And then the players who are so hung up on their % of revenue, will be out of the league. NEVER would I be an advocate of contraction. I like the league the way it is.

My bad. I may have confused you with someone else. Didn't mean to name-drop.

[WTF]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

No problem, not upset, that's just what I'm saying is going to happen if the league doesn't get out of the red. That's what the players don't understand. I get the fact that the owners have made some dumb moves, but in the end, if the players don't give up a little more of that generated revenue, then we're looking at several teams going under.

I'm not in favor of it, but that's where it's headed, and the players don't realizing that by playing hardball, they're kicking some of their buddies out of the league. I hope it's worth it.