CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The idea of playing on only 3 days a week probably won't work. The NBA would argue that they need MORE exposure, not less. Again, the weak/losing teams would get less exposure, therefore opening the door to possible relocation of teams (I understand the NBA League Pass is available for purchase, but my guess is that it's not as highly purchased as one might think). Also, I don't see the day when the league reduces the playoffs to 5 game series'. Once again, money would be lost and neither owners nor players would agree to this.

Forgotten in this mess (at least from what I've read) is the current woeful state of the WORLD ECONOMY. The NBA is now a global game... I think people will consider cutting back various forms of entertainment they deem not worth the value. I attended one Orlando Magic game this year (was given to me as a gift)... I must say, it was very boring and too much hoopla surrounding the game, as if the game was secondary to the entertainment. I used to attend Cleveland Cavs games (from 1986-1992) - always saw the Celtics when they came to the old Richfield Coliseum. It was a different time then, but the GAME was the entertainment, not all the other crap...

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The idea of playing on only 3 days a week probably won't work. The NBA would argue that they need MORE exposure, not less. Again, the weak/losing teams would get less exposure, therefore opening the door to possible relocation of teams (I understand the NBA League Pass is available for purchase, but my guess is that it's not as highly purchased as one might think). Also, I don't see the day when the league reduces the playoffs to 5 game series'. Once again, money would be lost and neither owners nor players would agree to this.

Forgotten in this mess (at least from what I've read) is the current woeful state of the WORLD ECONOMY. The NBA is now a global game... I think people will consider cutting back various forms of entertainment they deem not worth the value. I attended one Orlando Magic game this year (was given to me as a gift)... I must say, it was very boring and too much hoopla surrounding the game, as if the game was secondary to the entertainment. I used to attend Cleveland Cavs games (from 1986-1992) - always saw the Celtics when they came to the old Richfield Coliseum. It was a different time then, but the GAME was the entertainment, not all the other crap...

How exactly is playing on the samedays less exposure? Most games in all sports aren't nationally televised. It would just give watchers set days. I know my team is either playing this day or that day. The games that get national exposure would be determined by the league. Once a flex cap is in place the talent will be spread around the league. There are a lot of really good players casual fans aren't aware of because the league forces the big market teams down everybodies throats. Humans are creatures of habit basketball should be looking to capitalized on it.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

So why is the league marketing players instead of teams and where did it start? Give thanks to the so-called "Best Commissioner in Sports History". David Stern.

Agreed sir... well said..it was a short term solution that is no longer viable because the product is not the same.

The NBA has never tried to market all it's teams. They have always given unfair advantages to large market teams and then said "Hey Bucks fans come out and see the Lakers tonight". So how can we say something won't work when it's never been tried? Yeah before the internet and the massive appeal of ESPN large markets had to dominate. IMO that formula is out dated. Most casual fans are fickle and will support what ever team thats hot.

..and again, David Stern has made moves over the years to only really benefit pocket books and not the game, and we see the suffering because of it.

Its a shame how they go overboard stuffing players down your throat like hot twinkies, but although its a team sport, theyve gone far away from that.

Forgotten in this mess (at least from what I've read) is the current woeful state of the WORLD ECONOMY. The NBA is now a global game... I think people will consider cutting back various forms of entertainment they deem not worth the value. I attended one Orlando Magic game this year (was given to me as a gift)... I must say, it was very boring and too much hoopla surrounding the game, as if the game was secondary to the entertainment. I used to attend Cleveland Cavs games (from 1986-1992) - always saw the Celtics when they came to the old Richfield Coliseum. It was a different time then, but the GAME was the entertainment, not all the other crap...

Again well said... its been the NBAE league for some time now, and its sickening to see.. all of these so called experts popping up out of the blue, moving from a real sports network in NBC to a Disney network, and flat out making the game about entertainment and not the game has been its own meat.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

And the marketing players thing has been worse since Jordan, since everyone's looking for the next one.

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

How exactly is playing on the samedays less exposure? Most games in all sports aren't nationally televised. It would just give watchers set days. I know my team is either playing this day or that day. The games that get national exposure would be determined by the league. Once a flex cap is in place the talent will be spread around the league. There are a lot of really good players casual fans aren't aware of because the league forces the big market teams down everybodies throats. Humans are creatures of habit basketball should be looking to capitalized on it.

You're assuming that the league and players are going to agree on a financial structure of a 50/50 split (as I've read in your other post). I'll bet my left stone that doesn't happen. Assuming the league will create a great revenue sharing arm of the new CBA is a joke... Like Bill Simmons said in his article, you can't put together revenue sharing until you have the agreement in place. I don't think we'll see a "flex" cap but a HARD cap. If games are only played 3 nights a week (as you suggest) do you think anyone will care about that must-see Pacers vs. Raptors game?

The solution is quite simple but yet unreal: CONTRACTION of the league. Cut back to 24 teams in markets where the league WILL survive... and CONTRACT the amount of players per team down to 13 per. Make these guys fight for their very NBA life. Max out contracts to 4 years - no longer. What you have done is RAISE the talent pool (disbursement draft for contracted teams) and therefore raise the interest in the game.

Raise the quality of the product = raising interest in the game. Will this create parity? Yes... But parity has worked for the NFL (minus the contraction) and ti's the only way the NBA can survive. However, this will NEVER happen.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

You're assuming that the league and players are going to agree on a financial structure of a 50/50 split (as I've read in your other post). I'll bet my left stone that doesn't happen. Assuming the league will create a great revenue sharing arm of the new CBA is a joke... Like Bill Simmons said in his article, you can't put together revenue sharing until you have the agreement in place. I don't think we'll see a "flex" cap but a HARD cap. If games are only played 3 nights a week (as you suggest) do you think anyone will care about that must-see Pacers vs. Raptors game?

Yes. I think once the Raptors and Pacers have similar talent to ever other team in the league. You think every football fan wants to watch the Bills vs. the Broncos? The NBA has been a league of haves and have note. Sure there are some exception and big market teams fall off, but for the most part that's basketball. While in football every team may not be championship caliber, but most teams at some point have been good.

The solution is quite simple but yet unreal: CONTRACTION of the league. Cut back to 24 teams in markets where the league WILL survive... and CONTRACT the amount of players per team down to 13 per. Make these guys fight for their very NBA life. Max out contracts to 4 years - no longer. What you have done is RAISE the talent pool (disbursement draft for contracted teams) and therefore raise the interest in the game.

I don't understand how guys can be so gun hoe about contracting franchises, but so against contracting games? We just fundamentally disagree here. The talent pool isn't the problem here. Your still left with a regular season that's less valuable because it's still hard to follow and now you've alienated like 6th markets. You think a lock out will piss people off what do you think taking their teams will do?

Raise the quality of the product = raising interest in the game. Will this create parity? Yes... But parity has worked for the NFL (minus the contraction) and ti's the only way the NBA can survive. However, this will NEVER happen.

Not true. I'm a die hard Hornets fan I don't think there's a lack of talent in the NBA at all and I still don't watch all 82 games. Do you?

There were way too many times just last season were I found myself saying either "Damn that's right the Hornets play tonight" or "**** I forgot the Hornets played tonight". I doubt that I'm the only one.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

The reason the NFL can sell any team is because that's how they market their sport. They keep it fair so no matter how crappy your team is they are a few good decision away from being competitive.

REALLY? Well, if this is the case in football, then why have teams like the Detroit Lions and Buffalo Bills haven't made the playoffs in 12 years? Why hasn't the Texans been in the playoffs since their inception in 2002? How about Oakland not having a winning season since 2003. Or the 49ers not having a winning season since 03?

Don't you think some of these teams would have made some sort of playoff push by now? As much as we talk about parity being in the NFL, I keep seeing the same bottom feeders year after year. Yes, the contending teams change up once in a while, but why am I still seeing teams like the Lions, Bills and Raiders being some of the worst football teams year after year?

[Boge]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

So what happens if the entire 2011-2012 season is cancelled? What happens with the 2012 NBA draft? Do they do a draft? What order will the teams draft in?

[mvb34]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

REALLY? Well, if this is the case in football, then why have teams like the Detroit Lions and Buffalo Bills haven't made the playoffs in 12 years? Why hasn't the Texans been in the playoffs since their inception in 2002? How about Oakland not having a winning season since 2003. Or the 49ers not having a winning season since 03?

Don't you think some of these teams would have made some sort of playoff push by now? As much as we talk about parity being in the NFL, I keep seeing the same bottom feeders year after year. Yes, the contending teams change up once in a while, but why am I still seeing teams like the Lions, Bills and Raiders being some of the worst football teams year after year?

Its not the league fault these teams don't draft well or the players they do draft don't panout.. Four of five teams you bring up failed with a top 5 pick with QB... Look how fast Falcons cameback after Mike Vick...

[Rocky]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

REALLY? Well, if this is the case in football, then why have teams like the Detroit Lions and Buffalo Bills haven't made the playoffs in 12 years? Why hasn't the Texans been in the playoffs since their inception in 2002? How about Oakland not having a winning season since 2003. Or the 49ers not having a winning season since 03?

Don't you think some of these teams would have made some sort of playoff push by now? As much as we talk about parity being in the NFL, I keep seeing the same bottom feeders year after year. Yes, the contending teams change up once in a while, but why am I still seeing teams like the Lions, Bills and Raiders being some of the worst football teams year after year?

The Lions, Raiders, and 49ers have serious ownership/front office issues that prevent them from being competitive. You could put the Browns and Bengals in that category too. Not unlike the Clippers in the NBA. At the same time there is hope that a couple of free agent moves/good draft can turn a season around in an instant.

IMO, the NBA needs to replicate the excitement it saw in it's very own league when the Golden State beat Dallas five years ago or when Memphis beat San Antonio last year. A hard cap would make the the top teams a little more beatable and the middle of the pack teams a little more formidable. LBJ, Wade, Durant, Howard would always be at the forefront, but it would add 'drama' if the Pacers or the Bobcats could topple them in a 7 game series or a 5 game series. Many people still think the NFL isn't as strong as it was when the Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, and Redskins basically assembled super teams through free agency.....but yet it continues to thrive. The NBA will never get to that level, but I think the playoffs can definitely become more of an event.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Its not the league fault these teams don't draft well or the players they do draft don't panout.. Four of five teams you bring up failed with a top 5 pick with QB... Look how fast Falcons cameback after Mike Vick...

You can make the same argument for the NBA as well. Tell me when was the last time the Kings drafted an All-NBA player? Or let me know when the Clippers drafted an all-star before Blake Griffin? Or wake me up when the T-Wolves draft someone with some worth outside of Kevin Love.

And speaking of the T-Wolves, they are the model 'Woe is my franchise' team that everybody clamors about when they make the argument of small market teams not able to compete. You look at the T-Wolves draft picks and they make some real good picks. HOWEVER, they trade their GOOD players as soon as they draft them! Can anybody why they would trade away Brandon Roy or Ty Lawson? They had those guys they drafted they might be somewhat competitive right now. And the funny thing about Lawson, he was ONE OF THREE PG's the T-Wolves drafted in the first round. They traded him away and he turns out to the best out of the three. Go figure.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

REALLY? Well, if this is the case in football, then why have teams like the Detroit Lions and Buffalo Bills haven't made the playoffs in 12 years? Why hasn't the Texans been in the playoffs since their inception in 2002? How about Oakland not having a winning season since 2003. Or the 49ers not having a winning season since 03?

Don't you think some of these teams would have made some sort of playoff push by now? As much as we talk about parity being in the NFL, I keep seeing the same bottom feeders year after year. Yes, the contending teams change up once in a while, but why am I still seeing teams like the Lions, Bills and Raiders being some of the worst football teams year after year?

There's always going to be poorly run organization. The Knicks aren't short of dough or market and have stink for years now. The teams you mention sucks only because they're being miss handle not because the system prevents them from doing well.

The Lions probably will be really good the next few years. Most teams get their 15mins to be a contender in football. Can't say that about hoops.

[mvb34]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

You can make the same argument for the NBA as well. Tell me when was the last time the Kings drafted an All-NBA player? Or let me know when the Clippers drafted an all-star before Blake Griffin? Or wake me up when the T-Wolves draft someone with some worth outside of Kevin Love.

And speaking of the T-Wolves, they are the model 'Woe is my franchise' team that everybody clamors about when they make the argument of small market teams not able to compete. You look at the T-Wolves draft picks and they make some real good picks. HOWEVER, they trade their GOOD players as soon as they draft them! Can anybody why they would trade away Brandon Roy or Ty Lawson? They had those guys they drafted they might be somewhat competitive right now. And the funny thing about Lawson, he was ONE OF THREE PG's the T-Wolves drafted in the first round. They traded him away and he turns out to the best out of the three. Go figure.

Ty Lawson is nothing more then a roll player he wont make anybody All NBA team. Brandon Roy turns out is injuryprone and is almost done in the league.. No excuss for the Twolves they blew the KG years for stupidness

[mkharsh33]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

"If the proposal (the owners) have, if that's what they're sticking with and that's what they want, then I think it would be hard for a lot of guys to come back to the NBA," Deron Williams said Friday in an interview at a private golf resort in San Diego.

THIS is what's wrong with the NBA...these guys have some kind of entitlement to what their "value" is. So, if the owners stay true to a hard cap, will it "be hard" for a guy like Deron Williams to play for $9 million a year as opposed to $14 million per???? What a joke...

My wife has to take 3 weeks of unpaid furlough days as a graphic designer for the company she works with. She has a college degree and is making $38K per year (along with my salary for our family of 6). Her attitude?? "I'm just thankful I still have a job because I've seen so many people lose theirs."

For Deron Williams (and other athletes) to b!tch about their income in times like this, knowing full well they're STILL going to be paid millions and millions of dollars shows how arrogant many pro athletes are. I have ZERO SYMPATHY for any of them who have this attitude of "well, it would be very hard for me to play that kind of money..."

The people I feel sorry for are the ushers... vendors... maintenance... the common folk who get hurt in times like these, working for simple wages. They don't have millions of dollars stashed away in a bank...

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

LOL@ him saying it from a private golf course resort

Im sorry but it really is hard for me to feel sorry for anybody "suffering" like this.