Age limit

[jmood88]

Re: Age limit

I'm not saying that NCAA rules couldn't be tweaked a bit, or that the players couldn't recieve a small stipend. BUt the notion that the players get "nothing" is completely ridiculous.

I find it laughable that you say "nothing...but an education" Since when is that worth nothing? The opportunity to go to a university and enrich yourself with knowledge is not something to be looked down upon. There are many things in life that are valuable beyond the monetary value attached to them.

Also, since when do these athletes get nothing beyond that education? In many instances they live in school-sponsored housing and have meals provided for them. In addition, they have access to world-class trainers, medical facilities, coaches, etc. You don't think that going to college with a great basketball program ENHANCES many players abilities to get to the NBA and get a large payday in the future? Oh, poor players.....

Things like the NCAA television contract benefit the players(as well as the schools). The system is enriched with that money, and the players benefit from that system, in ways that go beyond the aforementioned examples.

What exactly are you proposing as an alternative? Instead of having a Duke player exchange his basketball abilities for a $40,000 a year education(and thats not even counting the food, the training, the access to medical care that schools with top athletic programs provide, etc.), lets just pay the player the $40,000, and let him just show up for the games. I don't think playing a game(at a high level, admittedly) for a few months out of the year in exchange for indirect access to tens of thousands of dollars in amenities and privileges and education is as dire of a proposition as you make it out to be.

I don't have a problem with education but why should you force someone to go to college when they don't need and don't have to (at least financially)? Athletes do get some but with all the money that they bring in for the ncaa, they should get some part of that. They do get it in the form of equipment and uniforms and stuff like that but the players should get some of the money directly. The ncaa won't let them capitalize on their names or anything, they own the rights to the players. Until this year or last year, the ncaa wouldn't even let the players go to predraft camps or else they would lose their eligibility and they still can't go to alot of the camps. The players can't transfer without losing a year of eligibility while the coaches are able to move around freely with no type of penalty, the players can't accept money from anyone or else they lose their eligibility for some games or a full season. I'm not talking about point shaving money or something, I mean anything at all. The ncaa just has so many restrictions on the players that it is rediculous. Again, I have no problem with college or education my problem is with the ncaa and how they pretend that they are in it for the players when they're all about the money.

[jmood88]

Re: Age limit

I'm not saying that NCAA rules couldn't be tweaked a bit, or that the players couldn't recieve a small stipend. BUt the notion that the players get "nothing" is completely ridiculous.

I find it laughable that you say "nothing...but an education" Since when is that worth nothing? The opportunity to go to a university and enrich yourself with knowledge is not something to be looked down upon. There are many things in life that are valuable beyond the monetary value attached to them.

Also, since when do these athletes get nothing beyond that education? In many instances they live in school-sponsored housing and have meals provided for them. In addition, they have access to world-class trainers, medical facilities, coaches, etc. You don't think that going to college with a great basketball program ENHANCES many players abilities to get to the NBA and get a large payday in the future? Oh, poor players.....

Things like the NCAA television contract benefit the players(as well as the schools). The system is enriched with that money, and the players benefit from that system, in ways that go beyond the aforementioned examples.

What exactly are you proposing as an alternative? Instead of having a Duke player exchange his basketball abilities for a $40,000 a year education(and thats not even counting the food, the training, the access to medical care that schools with top athletic programs provide, etc.), lets just pay the player the $40,000, and let him just show up for the games. I don't think playing a game(at a high level, admittedly) for a few months out of the year in exchange for indirect access to tens of thousands of dollars in amenities and privileges and education is as dire of a proposition as you make it out to be.

I don't have a problem with education but why should you force someone to go to college when they don't need and don't have to (at least financially)? Athletes do get some but with all the money that they bring in for the ncaa, they should get some part of that. They do get it in the form of equipment and uniforms and stuff like that but the players should get some of the money directly. The ncaa won't let them capitalize on their names or anything, they own the rights to the players. Until this year or last year, the ncaa wouldn't even let the players go to predraft camps or else they would lose their eligibility and they still can't go to alot of the camps. The players can't transfer without losing a year of eligibility while the coaches are able to move around freely with no type of penalty, the players can't accept money from anyone or else they lose their eligibility for some games or a full season. I'm not talking about point shaving money or something, I mean anything at all. The ncaa just has so many restrictions on the players that it is rediculous. Again, I have no problem with college or education my problem is with the ncaa and how they pretend that they are in it for the players when they're all about the money.

[BigTigLSU]

Re: Age limit

On a game day of purely on just concession and ticket sales LSU makes roughly a mil in one game thats not counting endorsements, tv contracts are the money they make with thier confrence contract or money for signing contracts to play away games. So in 1 home game against the worse opponent in four years that player has helped make 4 million dollars compared 40,000 for tution.

Until a few years ago players were not allowed to work but even now you still cant work because your classes are early morning because at mid day it is time to eat then its off to lift weights then to the practice field which ends maybe at 4 to 6 pm. Then off to the Academic center for athletes which alumni and corporate endorsers paid for not that athletic department. So if you lucky or you dont care about studying you got time to relax, or be normal student for second but then its back to the grind. So if you wanted to buy something like every college kid would want you dont have the funds.

I love college sports and I understand that real "student" athletes can use the education is given to them. But if I didn't want to go to college but I have to because there is an age limit or restriction on high school players then it becomes a deal of use me for the time I am here to make money win games and I'll use your school to showcase my talent but if I get hurt or it does not workout for me then I am no good to you. You have gotten your part of the deal I have wasted my time at a place I didnt want to be at in the first place and then its back home or worse. And the whole time you already got the next guy to wear my jersey# waiting in the wings.

Its hit or miss in the draft and its hit or miss in college at least I should have the choice between the two.

In Football being that there is such a huge jump from 1 level to the next I see how there will be a restriction but if there wasn't a rule in place NFL GM would be less likely to pick those players up thus decreasing the amount of players that jump.

[BigTigLSU]

Re: Age limit

On a game day of purely on just concession and ticket sales LSU makes roughly a mil in one game thats not counting endorsements, tv contracts are the money they make with thier confrence contract or money for signing contracts to play away games. So in 1 home game against the worse opponent in four years that player has helped make 4 million dollars compared 40,000 for tution.

Until a few years ago players were not allowed to work but even now you still cant work because your classes are early morning because at mid day it is time to eat then its off to lift weights then to the practice field which ends maybe at 4 to 6 pm. Then off to the Academic center for athletes which alumni and corporate endorsers paid for not that athletic department. So if you lucky or you dont care about studying you got time to relax, or be normal student for second but then its back to the grind. So if you wanted to buy something like every college kid would want you dont have the funds.

I love college sports and I understand that real "student" athletes can use the education is given to them. But if I didn't want to go to college but I have to because there is an age limit or restriction on high school players then it becomes a deal of use me for the time I am here to make money win games and I'll use your school to showcase my talent but if I get hurt or it does not workout for me then I am no good to you. You have gotten your part of the deal I have wasted my time at a place I didnt want to be at in the first place and then its back home or worse. And the whole time you already got the next guy to wear my jersey# waiting in the wings.

Its hit or miss in the draft and its hit or miss in college at least I should have the choice between the two.

In Football being that there is such a huge jump from 1 level to the next I see how there will be a restriction but if there wasn't a rule in place NFL GM would be less likely to pick those players up thus decreasing the amount of players that jump.

[SonicMage]

Re: Age limit

There's something called Title IX which states that you need to compensate women as well as men. That means if you start paying the male athletes, you have to pay the women ones as well, even if they're not showing profit. Pretty soon, this would extend across all sports, so the cross country runners would be getting paid as well. This would be way too large an expense for universities, who already complain enough about money as it is. I think thats why they haven't already done it.

Plus, they would then need to be classified as student employees and there are a ton of laws surrounding that. You need to give them insurance and retirement if they work over 40 hours a week, etc. Schools aren't prepared to give up that kind of money.

[SonicMage]

Re: Age limit

There's something called Title IX which states that you need to compensate women as well as men. That means if you start paying the male athletes, you have to pay the women ones as well, even if they're not showing profit. Pretty soon, this would extend across all sports, so the cross country runners would be getting paid as well. This would be way too large an expense for universities, who already complain enough about money as it is. I think thats why they haven't already done it.

Plus, they would then need to be classified as student employees and there are a ton of laws surrounding that. You need to give them insurance and retirement if they work over 40 hours a week, etc. Schools aren't prepared to give up that kind of money.

[Silverstring]

Re: Age limit

On a game day of purely on just concession and ticket sales LSU makes roughly a mil in one game thats not counting endorsements, tv contracts are the money they make with thier confrence contract or money for signing contracts to play away games. So in 1 home game against the worse opponent in four years that player has helped make 4 million dollars compared 40,000 for tution.

Even if you want to call playing NCAA basketball a "job", very few jobs work like this anyway[i.e. percentage of revenue]. Why should NCAA players get some special treatment? In addition, consider the other perspective. Some player, who wouldn't have been drafted highly(or at all) out of high school goes to Arizona, Duke, or North Carolina. After use of the training facilities and the tutelage of the coach, the player develops into a high-round draft pick, and receives millions in a contract. Shouldn't the player donate a percentage of his earnings to the school/athletic program that invested and improved him? Same concept. For the player that only goes to school because he's interested in the next level, he does make the school money, no one disputes that. But the school also makes the players' money, by preparing them for the next level. It cuts both ways.

Until a few years ago players were not allowed to work but even now you still cant work because your classes are early morning because at mid day it is time to eat then its off to lift weights then to the practice field which ends maybe at 4 to 6 pm. Then off to the Academic center for athletes which alumni and corporate endorsers paid for not that athletic department. So if you lucky or you dont care about studying you got time to relax, or be normal student for second but then its back to the grind. So if you wanted to buy something like every college kid would want you dont have the funds.

Now we're really coddling the players. Listen, everything in life is a choice, a question of checks and balances, sacrifices v. rewards. If your choice is to go to college, only care about basketball, and ignore the education aspect that could ensure a quality level of life down the road, so be it. That is your choice. Young people need to learn how to become adults, to gain maturity, and understanding this dynamic is integral. If you want to go to college for sports, you exchange your services for tuition, book money, room and board, etc. in addition to the opportunity to improve your game. If "buying something like every other college kid" is your concern, don't enter into that agreement. Truth is, big-time athletes are not "every other college kid". Man, my college friends and I would have LOVED to have free tuition, free housing, and free food. Instead, practically every "normal" college kid I knew had to get a job to get money to not only pay their tuition, but to buy things. Student athletes get practically everything provided to them, in exchange for doing something they WANT to do anyway, which is play basketball(which is a ton different than those students that go to jobs they hate to make ends meet).

Ok, how about we pay players, but require them to pay full tuition, book costs, housing, food, medical/training/rehab costs, shoe costs, uniform costs, etc.? After all, that what every other student has to do.....

If we're talking about "fairness" this makes sense, but providing money IN ADDITION to what they already get makes little sense.

And what about the 12th man who never sells a jersey, and only plays in practice? Does he get the same amount as a Wooden candidate superstar? Could you imagine the turmoil and tumult that slippery slope would create in college basketball? It's an amateur league for a reason. If I'm really someone who has the talent to go to the NBA, I don't think trading two years of PRIVILEGED college life is that big a sacrifice for making MILLIONS in two years. Again, poor players....

I love college sports and I understand that real "student" athletes can use the education is given to them. But if I didn't want to go to college but I have to because there is an age limit or restriction on high school players then it becomes a deal of use me for the time I am here to make money win games and I'll use your school to showcase my talent but if I get hurt or it does not workout for me then I am no good to you. You have gotten your part of the deal I have wasted my time at a place I didnt want to be at in the first place and then its back home or worse. And the whole time you already got the next guy to wear my jersey# waiting in the wings.

Its hit or miss in the draft and its hit or miss in college at least I should have the choice between the two.

First of all, this argument presupposes that just because their is an age limit in the NBA, a player is forced to go to college. Even if we accept that as part of the discussion, how is being in college "wasting your time"(even for the individual who holds getting to the NBA as his #1 priority in life has the chance to improve his skills leading to increased playing time and most likely a higher second contract, with the extra bonus of 2 years of college credit that can be resumed in the case of an unfortunate injury, etc.)? If a high school player hires an agent and isn't drafted in the guaranteed money first round, what do they do with themselves? Too often, they are left to float around aimlessly, and have no qualifications for even the most entry level jobs. Some times, people(especially young people) need to be protected from themselves. All I'm saying is that getting free college(and all of its associated perks) is not a terrible tradeoff, and its certainly not a FORCED tradeoff.

[Silverstring]

Re: Age limit

On a game day of purely on just concession and ticket sales LSU makes roughly a mil in one game thats not counting endorsements, tv contracts are the money they make with thier confrence contract or money for signing contracts to play away games. So in 1 home game against the worse opponent in four years that player has helped make 4 million dollars compared 40,000 for tution.

Even if you want to call playing NCAA basketball a "job", very few jobs work like this anyway[i.e. percentage of revenue]. Why should NCAA players get some special treatment? In addition, consider the other perspective. Some player, who wouldn't have been drafted highly(or at all) out of high school goes to Arizona, Duke, or North Carolina. After use of the training facilities and the tutelage of the coach, the player develops into a high-round draft pick, and receives millions in a contract. Shouldn't the player donate a percentage of his earnings to the school/athletic program that invested and improved him? Same concept. For the player that only goes to school because he's interested in the next level, he does make the school money, no one disputes that. But the school also makes the players' money, by preparing them for the next level. It cuts both ways.

Until a few years ago players were not allowed to work but even now you still cant work because your classes are early morning because at mid day it is time to eat then its off to lift weights then to the practice field which ends maybe at 4 to 6 pm. Then off to the Academic center for athletes which alumni and corporate endorsers paid for not that athletic department. So if you lucky or you dont care about studying you got time to relax, or be normal student for second but then its back to the grind. So if you wanted to buy something like every college kid would want you dont have the funds.

Now we're really coddling the players. Listen, everything in life is a choice, a question of checks and balances, sacrifices v. rewards. If your choice is to go to college, only care about basketball, and ignore the education aspect that could ensure a quality level of life down the road, so be it. That is your choice. Young people need to learn how to become adults, to gain maturity, and understanding this dynamic is integral. If you want to go to college for sports, you exchange your services for tuition, book money, room and board, etc. in addition to the opportunity to improve your game. If "buying something like every other college kid" is your concern, don't enter into that agreement. Truth is, big-time athletes are not "every other college kid". Man, my college friends and I would have LOVED to have free tuition, free housing, and free food. Instead, practically every "normal" college kid I knew had to get a job to get money to not only pay their tuition, but to buy things. Student athletes get practically everything provided to them, in exchange for doing something they WANT to do anyway, which is play basketball(which is a ton different than those students that go to jobs they hate to make ends meet).

Ok, how about we pay players, but require them to pay full tuition, book costs, housing, food, medical/training/rehab costs, shoe costs, uniform costs, etc.? After all, that what every other student has to do.....

If we're talking about "fairness" this makes sense, but providing money IN ADDITION to what they already get makes little sense.

And what about the 12th man who never sells a jersey, and only plays in practice? Does he get the same amount as a Wooden candidate superstar? Could you imagine the turmoil and tumult that slippery slope would create in college basketball? It's an amateur league for a reason. If I'm really someone who has the talent to go to the NBA, I don't think trading two years of PRIVILEGED college life is that big a sacrifice for making MILLIONS in two years. Again, poor players....

I love college sports and I understand that real "student" athletes can use the education is given to them. But if I didn't want to go to college but I have to because there is an age limit or restriction on high school players then it becomes a deal of use me for the time I am here to make money win games and I'll use your school to showcase my talent but if I get hurt or it does not workout for me then I am no good to you. You have gotten your part of the deal I have wasted my time at a place I didnt want to be at in the first place and then its back home or worse. And the whole time you already got the next guy to wear my jersey# waiting in the wings.

Its hit or miss in the draft and its hit or miss in college at least I should have the choice between the two.

First of all, this argument presupposes that just because their is an age limit in the NBA, a player is forced to go to college. Even if we accept that as part of the discussion, how is being in college "wasting your time"(even for the individual who holds getting to the NBA as his #1 priority in life has the chance to improve his skills leading to increased playing time and most likely a higher second contract, with the extra bonus of 2 years of college credit that can be resumed in the case of an unfortunate injury, etc.)? If a high school player hires an agent and isn't drafted in the guaranteed money first round, what do they do with themselves? Too often, they are left to float around aimlessly, and have no qualifications for even the most entry level jobs. Some times, people(especially young people) need to be protected from themselves. All I'm saying is that getting free college(and all of its associated perks) is not a terrible tradeoff, and its certainly not a FORCED tradeoff.

[Dallasin2K3]

Re: Age limit

For each college football/basketball/baseball/golf/soccer player on scholarship, TCU gives them over $30,000 a year in food/tuition/housing etc. payments. On top of that, an education.

I don't call that nothing.

[Dallasin2K3]

Re: Age limit

For each college football/basketball/baseball/golf/soccer player on scholarship, TCU gives them over $30,000 a year in food/tuition/housing etc. payments. On top of that, an education.

I don't call that nothing.

[Dame]

Re: Age limit

why would a person want a degree he's not going to use. A person goes to college to advance their career and gain the knowledge for their careers. If a person career dont require him to have a degree why would do he have to go to school.

If i could have got my job out of high school i would have took it . you shouldnt force someone to do something they dont want to do. and a employer should be able to hire anybody he wants so if a gm wants to take a chance on a high schooler it should be his right and that goes for anybody

[Dame]

Re: Age limit

why would a person want a degree he's not going to use. A person goes to college to advance their career and gain the knowledge for their careers. If a person career dont require him to have a degree why would do he have to go to school.

If i could have got my job out of high school i would have took it . you shouldnt force someone to do something they dont want to do. and a employer should be able to hire anybody he wants so if a gm wants to take a chance on a high schooler it should be his right and that goes for anybody

[Vince]

Re: Age limit

why would a person want a degree he's not going to use. A person goes to college to advance their career and gain the knowledge for their careers. If a person career dont require him to have a degree why would do he have to go to school.

So the player should just sit around in his house getting fat and lazy after he retires?

[Vince]

Re: Age limit

why would a person want a degree he's not going to use. A person goes to college to advance their career and gain the knowledge for their careers. If a person career dont require him to have a degree why would do he have to go to school.

So the player should just sit around in his house getting fat and lazy after he retires?

[Silverstring]

Re: Age limit

why would a person want a degree he's not going to use. A person goes to college to advance their career and gain the knowledge for their careers. If a person career dont require him to have a degree why would do he have to go to school.

If i could have got my job out of high school i would have took it . you shouldnt force someone to do something they dont want to do. and a employer should be able to hire anybody he wants so if a gm wants to take a chance on a high schooler it should be his right and that goes for anybody

LIke many potential High School to NBA players, you're just being short-sighted.

You must not be familiar with several studies done on the lives of retired athletes, not only in the NBA, but in ALL major sports. Many athletes, after they leave the game, have no marketable skill set. Add to that the fact that many of them spent and invested poorly, and so they file for Chapter 11 or are relegated to the bargain-basement life of signing autographs at card shows. And this is for great to hall of fame players. A fringe player has less opportunity to succeed after he leaves the game. Not all players get european contracts, front office, endorsement or broadcasting jobs, and most are left to float aimlessly.

Point being, an athletic career may not need a degree, but those careers are often short lived, due to either age, injury, or erosion of skills. In those cases, a college degree, even a partial one, can help a player either to resume his studies, or to find some degree of higher level work in this society.

The immediate effects/advantages of jumping straight to the NBA from high school are undeniable, from a purely financial perspective. However, placing an individual in college environment help them not only to mature and learn some life skills, but skills they can use for further employment, in case they blow out a knee, get cut after their first contract, etc. I support the logic that is willing to sacrifice the Kevin Garnetts, the Kobes, the LeBrons, and the McGradys for a couple of years to save the others from themselves, and their inflated opinion of their own ability. Since most players are too foolhardy to realize their basketball skills might not be there forever(or may never reach NBA levels) an age limit that nudges them toward college(but does not FORCE them) "insures" them for later life.