The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

[poster]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

He didn't outrebound Shaq last night. Was a complete non-factor last night.

Good player, not great, certainly overrated.

BK how is he overrated? He is a great rebounder and shot blocker and a great defender. I will agree he is a better help defender than a on the ball defender, but people act like he plays on the ball defense like a scrub like Damon Jones. Name me one 6'9" 250lb player who can guard Shaq(the current bigger Shaq not the one Rodman held down in the 90's). It will take a toll on you and tire you out from other aspects of your game.

Is it because he was DPOY? Someone said Camby should have won it. He cant guard Shaq either so that means his accomplishments are overrated? It isnt a fair assumption, but you have your opinion. I am just curious as to why you think that is all.

He will player better against the Spurs because I expect Sheed to guard Duncan until the refs call bs on him. Ben will guard Nazr and will be a force on the help side. IMO you cant call him overrated because he couldnt guard Shaq. Duncan has gotten schooled by Shaq too, is he overrated?

[Briman123]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

BK how is he overrated? He is a great rebounder and shot blocker and a great defender. I will agree he is a better help defender than a on the ball defender, but people act like he plays on the ball defense like a scrub like Damon Jones. Name me one 6'9" 250lb player who can guard Shaq(the current bigger Shaq not the one Rodman held down in the 90's). It will take a toll on you and tire you out from other aspects of your game.

Is it because he was DPOY? Someone said Camby should have won it. He cant guard Shaq either so that means his accomplishments are overrated? It isnt a fair assumption, but you have your opinion. I am just curious as to why you think that is all.

He will player better against the Spurs because I expect Sheed to guard Duncan until the refs call bs on him. Ben will guard Nazr and will be a force on the help side. IMO you cant call him overrated because he couldnt guard Shaq. Duncan has gotten schooled by Shaq too, is he overrated?

Duncan has what most C/PF don't have, one of the best jump-shots in the NBA. He's the reason why Spurs will win in atleast 6 games.

[bkrich83]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

So I guess all the other games didn't count. Oh well, everybody got their opinion, do what you do.

What other games? Other games in this series? Or the series last year where Shaq averaged 27 and 10?

He's good player, don't get me wrong. He's not as great as the media makes him out to be. I think some of that is due to him looking better than he is while playing in the East.

[bkrich83]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

BK how is he overrated? He is a great rebounder and shot blocker and a great defender. I will agree he is a better help defender than a on the ball defender, but people act like he plays on the ball defense like a scrub like Damon Jones. Name me one 6'9" 250lb player who can guard Shaq(the current bigger Shaq not the one Rodman held down in the 90's). It will take a toll on you and tire you out from other aspects of your game.

First of all, trying to compare any other 6-9 player that can guard Shaq is moot, because Wallace hardly defended him.

I don't see him as a "Great" rebounder nor a "Great Shot Blocker" nor a "great" defender. He's a very good player, but Wallace and Great do not belong in the same sentence.

I see him as overrated because I don't see him being as good as the hype or the media or the Piston homers play him up to be. You'd think he walks on water the way some people talk about him.

[RahKhem]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Ben averaged more rebounds in this series than any other player, he did his job for the most part there. In terms of his overall game, he was not as good in this series as he was vs. the Pacers and Sixers, because of the wear and tear of guarding Shaq, that is easily the hardest thing to do in the NBA, bang with Shaq. He didn't stop Shaq, nobody does. I guess what the point of contention here is that in my mind, Ben performed like I expected he would, and you heard from people that he was going to play better than that, so you feel that he was overrated. To each their own.

[bkrich83]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Ben averaged more rebounds in this series than any other player, he did his job for the most part there. In terms of his overall game, he was not as good in this series as he was vs. the Pacers and Sixers, because of the wear and tear of guarding Shaq, that is easily the hardest thing to do in the NBA, bang with Shaq. He didn't stop Shaq, nobody does. I guess what the point of contention here is that in my mind, Ben performed like I expected he would, and you heard from people that he was going to play better than that, so you feel that he was overrated. To each their own.

Not to mention I just don't see how anyone could say he's as good as they have been playing him up to be.

[RahKhem]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Not to mention I just don't see how anyone could say he's as good as they have been playing him up to be.

Well, besides this year, which was a down year for him, he averaged 3 blocks per game over 3 years, which is something even Alonzo Mourning or Shaq couldn't do, and the feat is even greater because he is severely undersized for a center. He also has averaged over 12 rebounds per game for five straight years, which even Dikembe Mutumbo or Shaq or David Robinson or couldn't do. Actually the only player in the last 15 years to do that over a 5 year span was Dennis Rodman, who is probably the greatest rebounder ever. The hype comes because he is severely undersized to be doing these types of things, so people will "pump up" the underdog. But his number do not put him as merely a good player. He is a great player.

[Shaver]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Here's the thing...the word GREAT. Ben Wallace is a GREAT player. MVP candidate? Nope. All-Star? Yep. But, what does that mean? He is one of the best 3 players in his Conference at his position. You can't argue that. Name 3 Centers in the East that are better? Exactly.

Ben Wallace is a GREAT player in MOST people's opinions (including the coaches that elect him to the All-Star game and the media that votes him the DPOY). Superstar? Nope. Not in NBA standards.

Captain of his team...
Rebounding machine...
One of the best weakside defenders in NBA history...
Gets more steals per year at Center that some PGs get...
Never takes a play off...
Offense improvement every year of his career...

That's a GREAT player...to me.

[bkrich83]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Here's the thing...the word GREAT. Ben Wallace is a GREAT player. MVP candidate? Nope. All-Star? Yep. But, what does that mean? He is one of the best 3 players in his Conference at his position. You can't argue that. Name 3 Centers in the East that are better? Exactly.

Ben Wallace is a GREAT player in MOST people's opinions (including the coaches that elect him to the All-Star game and the media that votes him the DPOY). Superstar? Nope. Not in NBA standards.

Captain of his team...
Rebounding machine...
One of the best weakside defenders in NBA history...
Gets more steals per year at Center that some PGs get...
Never takes a play off...
Offense improvement every year of his career...

That's a GREAT player...to me.

Not that you would ever overrate any player from the Detroit teams.

That's your opinions and I am fine with that. I am just not seeing it.

[bkrich83]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

But his number do not put him as merely a good player. He is a great player.

Hakkeem was a great player, Magic was a great player, Jordan was a great player, etc. Ben is not a great player.

[23]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Hakkeem was a great player, Magic was a great player, Jordan was a great player, etc. Ben is not a great player.

Agreed here. People too loosely throw the word "Great" around

[Shaver]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Not that you would ever overrate any player from the Detroit teams.

That's your opinions and I am fine with that. I am just not seeing it.

I didn't overrate anyone. I said he was All-Star caliber... Top 30 in the league... Top 3 at his position in the conference... and a great player.

I also said that GREAT was a word up for interpretation.

You're just reposting your same semantical point over and over in hopes of insighting the masses.

Ben Wallace...not GREAT to BK
Ben Wallace...great to others

Great means something to BK that is his and only his...
Great means something to someone else that is his and only his...

Bird, Magic, Jordan, Wilt, West... GREAT (to me) isn't strong enough to describe them.

[Kashanova]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Here's the thing...the word GREAT. Ben Wallace is a GREAT player. MVP candidate? Nope. All-Star? Yep. But, what does that mean? He is one of the best 3 players in his Conference at his position. You can't argue that. Name 3 Centers in the East that are better? Exactly.

Ben Wallace is a GREAT player in MOST people's opinions (including the coaches that elect him to the All-Star game and the media that votes him the DPOY). Superstar? Nope. Not in NBA standards.

Captain of his team...
Rebounding machine...
One of the best weakside defenders in NBA history...
Gets more steals per year at Center that some PGs get...
Never takes a play off...
Offense improvement every year of his career...

That's a GREAT player...to me.

he needs more offense before i can consider him great. he's just defense and when he plays true centers he does have problems. there are alot of better offensive centers out there. Shaq, Z, Brezec, Kristic, Okafar. They are all better offensively and im just going by stats, so he still needs to be more offensive before i can consider him great cause when he does guard a true center he doesnt do that good of a job

[Psyblast]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

Bird, Magic, Jordan, Wilt, West... GREAT (to me) isn't strong enough to describe them.

I agree. When I think of players like those, I think "legendary".

[poster]

Re: The OFFICIAL NBA Playoffs Thread

First of all, trying to compare any other 6-9 player that can guard Shaq is moot, because Wallace hardly defended him.

I don't see him as a "Great" rebounder nor a "Great Shot Blocker" nor a "great" defender. He's a very good player, but Wallace and Great do not belong in the same sentence.

I see him as overrated because I don't see him being as good as the hype or the media or the Piston homers play him up to be. You'd think he walks on water the way some people talk about him.

Not many players can effect the game without scoring. Ben is one of them and thats why people don't understand what he means to his team. Players like him are few and far between. Saying he hardly defended him is just not true. You avoided the question because we both know the answer and that is no one. He did as good as he could guarding him. A person who leads the league in blocks and rebounds in the same year is great in both categories espically when he is in the top 5 in those categories every year. The players you described are not great, they are amazing. I guess we will agree to disagree here.