The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

[ehh]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Who are good beat reporters besides Isola and SAS? They suck.

We don't have any. Herring is down to Earth and an "innocent" journalist if you will, by NY standards. He's young, a straight shooter and isn't a sensationalist type of dude.

[lhslancers]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

It doesn't matter who the Knicks took last night. They were dead again when they resigned Anthony last year. At best they're an 8 and lose in the first round.

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

1. They aren't saying it will take him 10 years before he can make an impact lol. They're saying 10 years from now, we'll all look back on the draft and say that Porzingis was the best player. They simply think he's better than Okafor/Towns/Russell/etc.

2. The guys he was going up against aren't that short. He's just 7'2" or 7'3" in shoes. There's pictures of him with Towns and Okafor and he makes them look like small forwards.

If you watch his scouting report and stuff and come away unimpressed, that's fine, but it goes against what the majority of scouts see in him. Even the advanced analytics guys think he would have dominated the NCAA if he played here based on their formulas.

He was definitely dropping alley oops on small guys. He's not doing that against other 6'10+ players in the NBA. I'm not impressed with highlight reels of guys finishing alley oops in the break.

And yes they did say that "in ten years he will be the best player from this draft." That's as concrete as you can get. If it takes 10 years for you to have him as the best player in the draft, then you waited too long for him to become the best player in the draft. Again, that sort of thinking is ridiculous. It's assuming that the other players also won't improve. So if right now, guys picked after him are better than him, then they just won't improve their games so Porzingis can shoot past them? If that's the argument you are trying to make for Porzingis, you're already reaching.

I'm a numbers guy like the rest of those guys. I love the numbers. The numbers say a lot of things. They don't say anything about what a guy is going to become. I don't care how good he would have been in college ball this past season. Kaminsky was also the best player in college ball if you see the awards he won. Does that mean anything come draft time?

What I care about is what I see and what I project him to be. All I'm hearing is: "This guy said that. This guy said this." Awesome. Those guys also said the same amazing things about other players like Porzingis who ended up being busts. I don't see anything that separates him from those busts.

I will give him this: He will last longer in the league simply because the Knicks will feel the need to not give in to the mistake.

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Grant will be better than Porzingis.

Someone save that. I can't wait to see the result in 10 years.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

He was definitely dropping alley oops on small guys. He's not doing that against other 6'10+ players in the NBA. I'm not impressed with highlight reels of guys finishing alley oops in the break.

And yes they did say that "in ten years he will be the best player from this draft." That's as concrete as you can get. If it takes 10 years for you to have him as the best player in the draft, then you waited too long for him to become the best player in the draft. Again, that sort of thinking is ridiculous. It's assuming that the other players also won't improve. So if right now, guys picked after him are better than him, then they just won't improve their games so Porzingis can shoot past them? If that's the argument you are trying to make for Porzingis, you're already reaching.

I'm a numbers guy like the rest of those guys. I love the numbers. The numbers say a lot of things. They don't say anything about what a guy is going to become. I don't care how good he would have been in college ball this past season. Kaminsky was also the best player in college ball if you see the awards he won. Does that mean anything come draft time?

What I care about is what I see and what I project him to be. All I'm hearing is: "This guy said that. This guy said this." Awesome. Those guys also said the same amazing things about other players like Porzingis who ended up being busts. I don't see anything that separates him from those busts.

I will give him this: He will last longer in the league simply because the Knicks will feel the need to not give in to the mistake.

1. Okay, I mean, whether you want to admit it or not, he was facing guys that are just as tall as the guys he will face in the NBA. Like many NBA players, he dunked over guys that are shorter than him. It's a highlight tape. Everyone goes crazy when DeAndre Jordan dunks on Brandon Knight. It's the same thing. And just like in Spain, Porzingis will be the tallest guy on the floor in the NBA too, and he'll have almost half a foot on most guys that defend him.

2. I think you're reading way too much into the semantics. Nobody thinks it will take Porzingis 10 years before he develops. If they do, what they really mean is that he's a bust. When people say that in 10 years, _______ will be the best player from this class, they mean they think he will be the best player from this draft. It's not like they think _____ will suck for 9 years and suddenly be good in year 10. They think that when these guys are all in their primes, Porzingis will be better than anyone else.

3. Kaminsky put up great numbers his senior year. At Porzingis' age, he averaged 1.8 points per game going up against guys that aren't nearly as good as what Porzingis was facing in Spain.

4. "Those guys" say a lot of American players will be great that end up being busts too. They also get a lot of players right. For the most part, scouts know what they're doing; there's just some factors you can't account for, but as of now, Porzingis is a great prospect, just like Towns, Okafor, Russell, etc., and he was scouted about as heavily if not more so than those guys were too.

Again, it's fine if you just don't think he's going to be good, but he's a good PROSPECT, just like the other top 5 picks are.

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

I'm telling you what they said about the 10 years. They even repeated it to Phil Jackson and he was flabbergasted enough to say, "Well, I hope in 5 years he's there, but it's going to take time."

Either way, the point I'm making is I don't care what the scouts say. I've usually find them to be wrong on a lot of players they think will be special. And I'm not here trying to say I'm right. ****, I know I've been wrong on players too.

But I'll take my eyes over theirs. I watch basketball too. Just because they get paid for it doesn't mean they know better. As often as they are wrong, I'm not inclined to believe them.

The simple fact is everyone not them has seen the same footage of this guy unless they live in Spain. If you looked at that footage and agreed with them, that's cool, but I don't think you're taking your eyes seriously. then.

The guys in those clips were not centers he was dunking on. If people get excited about him dunking a basketball, there's plenty of that on ESPN SportsCenter. I don't. Anyone his size should be dunking a basketball. Anyone with a good shooting stroke should be hitting open three pointers. It just wasn't impressive and scouts watched him shoot more open jumpers in the gym and started raving about him.

Open jumpers in the gym...

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

For what it's worth, over the past couple weeks it seemed like scouts and GMs were and are extremely high on Porzingis. One scout even said he was better than KAT. But the fans and media seem to be the opposite. The hopeless optimist in me wants to believe that the guys who get paid to make these decisions know more than the guys who criticize them for free.

It seems like his main knocks are his size/strength and his overall feel for the game. Those really aren't fundamental flaws. Feel will come with experience. That's 95% of this class. Strength and size will come. He's not your typical gamble in the sense that he's short for his position, or lacks the athleticism for his position, or no one has ever seen him play basketball, or can't put the basketball in the hoop if he can't dunk it.

Stages of grief:
S̶h̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶D̶i̶s̶b̶e̶l̶i̶e̶f̶
D̶e̶n̶i̶a̶l̶
A̶n̶g̶e̶r̶
B̶a̶r̶g̶a̶i̶n̶i̶n̶g̶
G̶u̶i̶l̶t̶
D̶e̶p̶r̶e̶s̶s̶i̶o̶n̶
Acceptance and Hope

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

*slow clap* for CMH. You are spot on.

Look, it is what it is at this point. He's here. We can't do anything.

But KP better be the Dirk Gasol Kukoc or this was an astronomical reach and utter failure for the 4th pick in any draft.

Forget that he's an overseas player or 19 yrs old.

Phil went on the word of his boy Clarence Gaines and a 1-on-1 workout against a guy who doesn't even play basketball.

I'm glad we have a system in place where at least it's not changing every single game. But the teams that he is trying to mimic (Spurs, his old Bulls and Laker squads) had one thing in common: they had studs. They had alpha dogs and on all of those teams, they had more than one.

We have NONE.

Melo is not it at 31.

So instead of being the Spurs, we'll end up being the Utah Jazz. Great, free flowing, unselfish game but nothing else to show for it besides clawing for the 9th & 10th seed every single year.

You need a dog in this league to have success. Somebody who wants it more than anyone else.

No one here can say they've seen that from Porzingis. They took a shot in the dark off of hearsay.

Phil's gonna be long gone by the time Porzingis develops into anything. And all bets say he'll be chilling with his wife enjoying her success because the Lakers go after alpha dogs.

You hear LaMarcus Aldridge mention NY? I thought we were "The Mecca"?
How about any other big time free agent?

That is why Phil was brought in. To lure Superstars. Not to lure draft picks who have no choice as to where they go.

I hate the Knicks.

We sat here and killed D'Antoni for saying Jordan Hill reminded him of Amare Stoudemire. Now this gets a pass because the mighty Phil says he reminds him of Pau?

I hope "KP" develops, stays healthy and becomes a good player.

But if he shows no signs of being the next Dirk or Pau, this was a massive, massive error from the smartest men in the room.

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Well, I'll say this. I don't even hope Porzingis will be as good as Dirk. If he is, forget everything because they just got a Top 15 basketball player. I'll post what I said for days and talk about how wrong I was while celebrating the championships the Knicks are holding high.

If he ends up being Pau Gasol, well that's cool too. I like Pau Gasol. But Pau Gasol shouldn't ever be the best player on your team. He tried that and his team couldn't make the playoffs.

I know someone will say, "He's got Melo. He doesn't have to be the best player on the team." Nah, please don't feed us that. Melo won't be here when Ingis might be a legit star. Though with all the losses the Knicks are going to pile on, they might have another player selected Top 5 that supplants him, assuming they don't trade that pick away.

If he's Toni Kukoc...LOL. He's totally going to be Toni Kukoc. It's fine to have him too but let's consider what team Kukoc played on and who was around him.

So I know the next question is: If you don't think Porzingis should have been the pick, who should they have taken?

I think Justise Winslow or Willie Caulie-Stein should have been the picks. If WCS is not good enough to go 4th, then you look to trade down. If you can't find a good trade partner because everyone is jerking you around, you take Winslow.

I personally think Winslow will be a phenomenal player. Here's my thing about this.

Melo doesn't want someone who is going to ask if it's okay to be the leader or take shots. To me, Winslow would have come into the situation and said, "It's our team. I got Melo's back."

Porzingis seems like the type to say, "Give me some time to grow into the player you want. Right now it's Melo's team. I'm happy to help him."

Melo doesn't want to hear that. And frankly, I think Melo needs someone to come in and demand the ball. I think it's what Melo actually wants when he says he needs help offensively.

But the above is just hypothetical. I'm expressing my thoughts so I don't mean to write it down like it's all facts. I just think Winslow would have won respect on the offensive side. I think WCS would have focused on defense and been a leader to what is a relatively young group of guys on the roster.

Porzingis at least acknowledges he's just a corner 3 guy. Because that is exactly what he is. If he is truly committed to do the rest, good for him. I will root for him to do so. I'm just not convinced he actually has all of the ability to do it.

[bakan723]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

At this point, I'm fine with a high risk/reward pick. We need to hit it big.

[jb12780]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

I wonder who this year's Galloway will be? Summer ball will be interesting.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Well, I'll say this. I don't even hope Porzingis will be as good as Dirk. If he is, forget everything because they just got a Top 15 basketball player. I'll post what I said for days and talk about how wrong I was while celebrating the championships the Knicks are holding high.

If he ends up being Pau Gasol, well that's cool too. I like Pau Gasol. But Pau Gasol shouldn't ever be the best player on your team. He tried that and his team couldn't make the playoffs.

I know someone will say, "He's got Melo. He doesn't have to be the best player on the team." Nah, please don't feed us that. Melo won't be here when Ingis might be a legit star. Though with all the losses the Knicks are going to pile on, they might have another player selected Top 5 that supplants him, assuming they don't trade that pick away.

If he's Toni Kukoc...LOL. He's totally going to be Toni Kukoc. It's fine to have him too but let's consider what team Kukoc played on and who was around him.

So I know the next question is: If you don't think Porzingis should have been the pick, who should they have taken?

I think Justise Winslow or Willie Caulie-Stein should have been the picks. If WCS is not good enough to go 4th, then you look to trade down. If you can't find a good trade partner because everyone is jerking you around, you take Winslow.

I personally think Winslow will be a phenomenal player. Here's my thing about this.

Melo doesn't want someone who is going to ask if it's okay to be the leader or take shots. To me, Winslow would have come into the situation and said, "It's our team. I got Melo's back."

Porzingis seems like the type to say, "Give me some time to grow into the player you want. Right now it's Melo's team. I'm happy to help him."

Melo doesn't want to hear that. And frankly, I think Melo needs someone to come in and demand the ball. I think it's what Melo actually wants when he says he needs help offensively.

But the above is just hypothetical. I'm expressing my thoughts so I don't mean to write it down like it's all facts. I just think Winslow would have won respect on the offensive side. I think WCS would have focused on defense and been a leader to what is a relatively young group of guys on the roster.

Porzingis at least acknowledges he's just a corner 3 guy. Because that is exactly what he is. If he is truly committed to do the rest, good for him. I will root for him to do so. I'm just not convinced he actually has all of the ability to do it.

At this point for me, it's water under the bridge. I would've taken Mudiay, justified at #4 or not.

I'm just tired of people wanting/coercing me to feel good about the pick.

The "more upside than KAT & Okafor" comments are what pisses me off the most.

I watched KAT, Okafor and Mudiay in HS/college. So I'm not in the dark about them. There's nothing on KP besides YouTube videos and highlights.

Sure scouts & basketball people know more than me. But that doesn't make me comfortable.

For me and just me, he needs to be Dirk. Nothing less than Dirk.

Whoever can call me unrealistic or say how it's not fair, whatever.

He must be Dirk for me. The high pick, the big market, the "hype". This ain't the middle of Texas.

I'll shut up going forward about him.

Phil got who he wanted. The onboard fans got what they wanted. So I'll shut up and chill on KP.

[CMH]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

Yeah I'm not saying anything about it anymore. He's on the team. Let's just get better

sent from my mobile device

[lhslancers]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

At this point, I'm fine with a high risk/reward pick. We need to hit it big.

No. You need more than one player. They needed to build from the ground up the Anthony resigning set them back 5 years. No free agent will sign in NY because he is on the team.

[NYJets]

Re: The 2015 New York Knicks: Year 1 of Life "After" Dolan

No free agent will sign in NY because he is on the team.

Right...

Having even less talent will make us more attractive to free agents.