Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

I think it's also possible that the intermittent, bug related armour is making it worse than it otherwise would be. Like, it seems like about 30% of the time (Just throwing a number out, haven't done any testing), stationary head movement will just let you ignore the hit reaction from some strikes, which makes landing the next strike in the combination rough and allowing them to counter into an unintended window.

I'd like to see that fixed before we see any nerfs to the actual head movement mechanics.

That undoubtedly makes it worse and the cheese more dynamic but it isn't causing this problem. People fight like this without stationary head movement too and would continue to do so if that was the only thing that changed. It's still highly effective. Just check out the ranked video I posted a few pages back.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

That undoubtedly makes it worse and the cheese more dynamic but it isn't causing this problem. People fight like this without stationary head movement too and would continue to do so if that was the only thing that changed. It's still highly effective. Just check out the ranked video I posted a few pages back.

See, I don't think it's the slip strikes are the problem in that video, it's the strong block allowing the fighters to get so close with zero risk removing the ability to react to the slip strikes. People are advocating for nerfing every aspect of pressure fighting all at once, and I worry that it will cause an overcorrection and making leading extremely risky.

To be clear, I do think something needs to be done as it is clearly a problem, but I don't want to see them nerf head movement, nerf the block, buff lunges and buff the jab all at once, because I think it's entirely possible they swing it too far in favour of the outfighter. Right now, it'd be the 5th punch that goes through a block right, I think if they changed that to the 3rd or 4th (3rd could be bad, I know) punch, it'd make that specific style of fighting far less effective, because you wouldn't need to completely empty your temp stamina bar to break a block, lowering the risk for trying to do it, making it faster to do and increasing the risk for the person trying to pressure forward like that.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

They'd have to pick and choose and nerf/buff things the right amount but I have faith that they would. I'm not necessarily advocating anything (other than nerfing block). The ideas in this thread have potential for the most part though.

The amount of things changed doesn't mean too much if they're all only changed slightly. There are probably a few ways to do this to get close to ideal results.

The blocking is definitely the big one for me right now though.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

Problem is everyone is essentially forced to fight the same way currently.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

Was actually looking for that thread so I could close this or just merge them but couldn't find it so thought I imagined it. What's the link?

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https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/926877-guard-breaks-head-movement-changes.html

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[EJ_Manuel]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

This is exactly why I go to the ground. Nothing about this stand-up system is rewarding to me. Two guys in each other's faces flicking the right stick till someone gets a double hook or a double uppercut. Stuff is janky looking.

[kush land]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

If you nerf blocking wont that just encourage more punching and more headmovement there ducking and uppercuting hows nerfing block gonna help stop ducking? if you nerf blocking then will have no way to defend are self i think it would be worse if you nerfed block. Maybe just lower blockin when coming forward and slow there movement

[johnmangala]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

If you nerf blocking wont that just encourage more punching and more headmovement there ducking and uppercuting hows nerfing block gonna help stop ducking? if you nerf blocking then will have no way to defend are self i think it would be worse if you nerfed block. Maybe just lower blockin when coming forward and slow there movement

There shouldn't be a nerf to blocking without a nerf to ducking and swaying uppercuts etc.

[bcruise]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

If you nerf blocking wont that just encourage more punching and more headmovement there ducking and uppercuting hows nerfing block gonna help stop ducking? if you nerf blocking then will have no way to defend are self i think it would be worse if you nerfed block. Maybe just lower blockin when coming forward and slow there movement

This is what I fear. That nerfing defensive options will make an already spammy offensive game even spammier.

[kush land]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

There's literally no other defense but 2 block you cant move away u move ur head ur dead all i can do is block do small lunge back and maybe jab there body DONT NERF BLOCKING

[Serengeti1]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

The block nerf we're talking about is to do with movement speed. So you wouldn't be able to just walk into the pocket holding block. Currently you can move at the same speed whether you're holding block or not. It would stop people forcing this type of fight on you.

[johnmangala]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

Blocking should break down easier and have a slight movement speed reduction.

Ducking uppercuts and hooks need to be toned down, intercept knees should be more like uppercuts now against TDs, ducking, and body punches.

[MartialMind]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

Lets all answer this question.

Why don't MOST fighters stand directly in front of each other in real fights?

They don't because the risk of getting knocked out cold increases exponentially the closer you are to each other. They don't because JUST holding high block does not offer anywhere near the protection required to absorb blows repeatedly. Fighters understand, that in real life, you don't need a long combination to break the block.... One perfectly placed straight can pierce through the block and do damage.

This is why we see certain fighters like Justin Gaethje, use a combination of sways, parries and high block to close the distance, stay close to opponents and then fire off combos. Swaying while blocking, gives you the ability to block better, and since we can't block and sway or parry in this game, the strength of the high block, which directly makes walking down opponents easy, is simply not justified.

If you keep your head completely still while walking towards an opponent, you get blown up if they hit you from a distance where they can leverage the full power of their shots. And a fighter can do this without wasting too much stamina.

Another important thing to note is that, a fighter guarding his face or body does not move forward as quickly as a fighter who isn't.

The fact that players can close the distance safely by holding high block until they come face to face + the fact that they don't lose any forward moving speed while guarding their face = Forward pressure being far too easy... much easier than it should be.

This has already been suggested here, but it's important to state it again.

* It should take fewer combinations to break through the block

The thing is, most players who play in this "Stand right in front of your face style" usually advance while holding high block. Making it easier to break their block will AT LEAST solve that issue. That takes away one clear safety net from them.

One of these players could counter with... "Okay but so what? I'll just block sparingly and move my head the rest of the time and counter you while you try to break my block, now what?"

* Apart from running, movement speed should be fastest when the fighter is doing nothing else but simply moving, (Also depending on footwork stats).

Doesn't matter if you're moving and swaying, holding block while moving, throwing moving strikes, none of these should cover more distance than simply moving.

Example 1:

Fighter A is holding block while moving forward.
Fighter B is not holding high block while moving away from fighter A.
Result = Fighter B moves faster than fighter A and is able to keep from being face to face.

Example 2:

Fighter A is ducking and swaying while moving.
Fighter B is simply moving
Result = Fighter B moves faster than fighter A. This way, fighter A can't close distance quickly by simply moving with head movement.

Example 3:

Fighter A is throwing a bunch of forward moving strikes.
Fighter B is moving backward.
Result = Fighter A maybe lands the first strike if he's close enough but whiffs the rest and is unable to chase down fighter B with forward moving strikes.

The goal here is for pressure fighters to FIRST close distance with footwork, trap opponents with footwork first, before throwing shots.

Now, I know that this will also benefit the aggressive fighter, especially when it comes to breaking the block with fewer combos... BUT, if these changes go in and the aggressor is able to get close enough to you to break your block, then he deserves the benefit because he must've used good footwork to trap you, while also avoiding your counters, as opposed to just holding high block and walking you down.

Now the bug with the sustained leans is being fixed. I'm not sure how effective this fix will be so we'll just need to wait and see what that does, but I believe the changes above could potentially solve the issue of fighters standing right in front of you no matter how hard u try to get away from them. If implemented correctly and tested extensively.

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

Too add to Martial's nerf of overly aggressive fighters, strikes that hit block NEEEEED to take more stamina away. Right now players get "rewarded" for swinging like a mad man at your block with much less stamina penalty. This allows them to feel safe throwing over and over again, because even if you weather a storm for 2 rounds, they are still fine to keep that pace. We could say this increased loss of stamina while hitting blocks simulates the defender "rolling with the punches" and little non-animated things of that nature.

And lets face it, with the current headmovement system (which I don't hate btw) you can't Roy Jones Jr a flurry of strikes like you can in Fight Night (and to some extent even UFC 2 you could do this). So your only choice is to block a ton of shots when they are that aggressive, and as a result they can just keep throwing strikes until your block is broken down, and they still have a ton of stamina.

Lastly, I think moving head movement animations should cover less ground. Right now weaving left and right as you move forward looks like a raging bull charging a red flag or something.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Sway And Pray. Let's Talk About This.

Glad to see Martial on board with those changes

The more GCs in the Devs ears about this type of stuff the greater the chances of it getting fixed