The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Probably both, but I would imagine the problem is more with the advanced back lunge (L1+LS) as opposed to the flick lunges (LS + flick), as it covers more distance.

[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Just for clarity purposes are you guys saying the backstep(left stick) is OP or the back lunge(L1+left stick)?

The lunge....


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[Morgan Monkman]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Its not unplayable. Lets calm down with the hyperbole. We are having an adult conversation here. Feel free to contribute if you can match the discussion level.

Are you kidding me???? you're such a arrogant *******.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm having a hard time understanding how both inside fighting and outside fighting are OP lol. Both things can't be OP at the same time....that doesn't make sense since they oppose each other.

Can someone clarify this for me? If someone wants to close the distance they can just come forward, swaying and ducking and cover a lot of ground while make their opponent miss and drain their stamina.

If someone wants to stay on the outside they can use back lunges to make their aggressive opponent miss and drain stamina. One has to cancel out the other if both are strong tactics. This still doesn't mean outside fighting is OP imo because you can still cover distance very easily and stick to your opponent. The only downside of that is if your too aggressive while they are lunging, then you can lose stamina.

But this also isn't a fair argument imo. Back lunges cost stamina...so spamming them has a cost. Head movement costs no stamina. You can spam them all day. Which method is gonna work best in a 5 round fight?

[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm having a hard time understanding how both inside fighting and outside fighting are OP lol. Both things can't be OP at the same time....that doesn't make sense since they oppose each other.

Can someone clarify this for me? If someone wants to close the distance they can just come forward, swaying and ducking and cover a lot of ground while make their opponent miss and drain their stamina.

If someone wants to stay on the outside they can use back lunges to make their aggressive opponent miss and drain stamina. One has to cancel out the other if both are strong tactics. This still doesn't mean outside fighting is OP imo because you can still cover distance very easily and stick to your opponent. The only downside of that is if your too aggressive while they are lunging, then you can lose stamina.

But this also isn't a fair argument imo. Back lunges cost stamina...so spamming them has a cost. Head movement costs no stamina. You can spam them all day. Which method is gonna work best in a 5 round fight?

The argument is that the back lunge cost practically no stamina (a very small tax) and its a very low risk mechanic while someone who is striking against someone spamming lunges risks losing big amounts of his stamina simply by missing strikes when someone lunges.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The argument is that the back lunge cost practically no stamina (a very small tax) and its a very low risk mechanic while someone who is striking against someone spamming lunges risks losing big amounts of his stamina simply by missing strikes when someone lunges.

I don't fully agree. I literally just had a fight where i tried the back lunge for majority of the fight and my opponent was still able to hit me in the body.

After a back lunge, your opponent can still get body shots in which adds to the stamina tax. They can't be saying this is more OP than head movement spam can they?

[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I don't fully agree. I literally just had a fight where i tried the back lunge for majority of the fight and my opponent was still able to hit me in the body.

After a back lunge, your opponent can still get body shots in which adds to the stamina tax. They can't be saying this is more OP than head movement spam can they?

Not if you double back lunge. At least thats the case for me.

I dont think anyone was saying that it was more OP. I think people were saying that it was also OP.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

So it's pretty much the same as the stamina drain on whiffed strikes from head movement, only head movement doesn't have a tax.

So the best bet would be the increase the stamina penalty on the back lunges. They aren't really vulnerable to anything afaik.

Don't they have a special animation-jumping back away from kicks and body shots?

[ZombieRommel]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

As Zombie said inside and outside fighting are both pretty damn strong.

You essentially have to better at abusing the respective mechanics of what your trying to do and abuse it more often than the other guy.

It's easy to force someone into the pocket playing the 50/50 game due to the the way head movement works.

Large risk large reward and easy to impose.

However, back dashes are completely broken and I don't think the majority of the community has caught onto it yet. So yes, outside fighting, making your opponent whiff and gas whilenfighting on your backfoot is certainly possible.

I have a bigger issue with this because
It has VERY LOW risk, VERY high reward, and is easy to impose.

Backdashing costs about as much stamina as an on block jab does, but making someone whiff off a backdash KILLS stamina. You can literally spam them back to back after waiting to see your opponent twitch to fish for counters and kill their stamina.

Both take very little skill to use, one is risky, the other is not.

Yeah pretty much sums it up. My main issue is with the ease of imposing the respective strategies. It's OK if 50/50's are high risk, high reward. And it's OK if getting backdashed drains some stamina (IMO). The crappy part is that the answer to the 50/50 is to either put yourself at risk of great harm or abuse the backdash (not ideal). And the answer to the backdash doesn't really exist.

What both these strategies need to sanitize them are safe and reliable punishes which currently don't really exist. Simply blocking a head spammer and being out of range should be enough to make him gas if he keeps up trying to be Mike Tyson.

For the back dashers, they should probably be gassing faster for repeatedly doing it when no strikes are thrown, and a good argument could be made that the cage should be sticky and that blocking while lunging is OP. Back-dashing against a feint should drain the dasher more than the feinter IMO, blocking should be removed while lunging (quite OP when you finally get someone to the cage and then they can side lunge out safely), and the cage itself should be stickier as right now it's insanely hard to actually corner someone there. FNC made corners sticky to make running harder. It's one thing if the opponent is holding the center of the octagon well, but if he's backed up all the way to the cage and still has totally free movement, something is wrong.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

All of these are from damaged and tired fighters into the 3rd round. Weidman was shooting and that’s fine, but Zhunter said “instant death” on ducks from knees. Round 1, full health/stamina and you want death? Lol no. I never said a ko shouldn’t happen in this scenario to be clear. It can be buffed, but it’s honestly fine as is. The gifs are highlights, but you can find hundreds of ducking knees getting ate in random exchanges from fights.


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I was being overly dramatic. It should be enough to make duckers seriously reconsider their strategy.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'm down with all of them except that because thats not really rooted in realism. Nothing should prevent me from blocking just because I hop back/

That is supposed to read,

- The inability to blocking DURING a backdash. Sorry for the confusion. I hadn't slept in 26 hours when writing that.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

The back dash spam can be frustrating when I'm in a hurry. But if not I let them run and get off some leg kicks here and there till they get tired of waiting for me.

Its annoying tho regardless. Its two extremes, either a fighter just glued to you russian roulette style or an idiot throwing 3 or 4 jabs and back lunging as soon as you try to counter.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I’d love to see an animation for stumbling against the fence if you backdash too close to it.

I think there’s one in game for when you get teeped

[kush land]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What lunge are you talking bout?

Regular lunges can be useful against stationary punches and head kicks.If they move forward punching or mix a leg kick or body kick ur getting hit most likely.Stamina tax on these lunges is very small id like to see a similar tax put on stationary head movement.

Advanced lunges are great to counter DUMB aggressive fighters that throw 3 to 4 punch combos moving forward.If there smart they stop moving forward and punching.The stamina tax on these lunges are pretty big especially if u do more then 1 id like a similar tax on MOVING HEAD MOVEMENT.The advanced lunge cant always avoid body kicks and even if u did i think ur out of range to counter.

In my opinion lunges are not OP at all i haven't played 1 person that was really good at them.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What lunge are you talking bout?

Regular lunges can be useful against stationary punches and head kicks.If they move forward punching or mix a leg kick or body kick ur getting hit most likely.Stamina tax on these lunges is very small id like to see a similar tax put on stationary head movement.

Advanced lunges are great to counter DUMB aggressive fighters that throw 3 to 4 punch combos moving forward.If there smart they stop moving forward and punching.The stamina tax on these lunges are pretty big especially if u do more then 1 id like a similar tax on MOVING HEAD MOVEMENT.The advanced lunge cant always avoid body kicks and even if u did i think ur out of range to counter.

In my opinion lunges are not OP at all i haven't played 1 person that was really good at them.

I've played some that are very good at them and it definitely can be frustrating for example playing as Hunt vs Overeem can be pretty annoying if they play like that. But I think the advanced lunge is not op, frustrating yes. But I can still get hit in body and the regular lunges are mostly useless because they are so much less responsive than the advanced ones with the input delay.