The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[kush land]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

He's the reem and ur stubby hunt then its gonna be a bit harder.But good thing u can just hold high block and walk him down and make lunges completely useless.

WE TALKIN BOUT LUNGES BEEN OP REALLY WE TALKIN BOUT LUNGES LOL

I am the lunge master

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

He's the reem and ur stubby hunt then its gonna be a bit harder.But good thing u can just hold high block and walk him down and make lunges completely useless.

WE TALKIN BOUT LUNGES BEEN OP REALLY WE TALKIN BOUT LUNGES LOL

I am the lunge master

Exactly my point. It should be frustrating in a situation like that. I don't do the inside fighting bs tho. I like to keep distance and pick my shots. So when I face people like that, its about who has more patience lol. Some get mad because I stay on the outside and eat them up with leg kicks. Like what am I supposed to do, just walk into your jabs and teep kicks all game?

[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

He's the reem and ur stubby hunt then its gonna be a bit harder.But good thing u can just hold high block and walk him down and make lunges completely useless.

WE TALKIN BOUT LUNGES BEEN OP REALLY WE TALKIN BOUT LUNGES LOL

I am the lunge master

Thats not totally true. I'm not saying they are OP. I'm saying that I can use the jab and back lunges to create space against most players using someone with good footwork.

[kush land]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Thats not totally true. I'm not saying they are OP. I'm saying that I can use the jab and back lunges to create space against most players using someone with good footwork.

Im confused isn't that a good thing isn't that what we wanted was to be able to keep distance?

Dont u play sp ur not keeping distance on me ill just hold high block andd walk u down itss not hard.

[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Im confused isn't that a good thing isn't that what we wanted was to be able to keep distance?

Dont u play sp ur not keeping distance on me ill just hold high block andd walk u down itss not hard.

Look man. I'm not the one complaining about it. I actually have no issues with it but I'm not a high level player.

High level players (especially on Xbox) are complaining that the lunge is solely being used to cause people to miss strikes and lower stamina. They believe it is ruining the game currently.

[MMA Damage]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Look man. I'm not the one complaining about it. I actually have no issues with it but I'm not a high level player.

High level players (especially on Xbox) are complaining that the lunge is solely being used to cause people to miss strikes and lower stamina. They believe it is ruining the game currently.

Only ones I'd imagine hate it are McGregor users and people who play other fighters with his kind of power.. I'll lunge back on them for about 2 rounds while the march forward hook spamming and I hit them after they whiff a few shots. That's on them for playing recklessly. Its much easier closing distance than keeping distance as is. If they want to chase you recklessly then thats their fault.

[MartialMind]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Jesus this thread is massive!. Forgive me if this has already been suggested here by someone else, but I wonder if maybe we haven't explored fixing a glaring issue related to this.

If you throw a jab and ONLY the jab and it's slipped/ducked, you will have enough time to block the counter. Correct me if I am wrong on this.

If this is the case, the jab on it's own might be quite safe against head movement right now and that is good. The issue is when you queue up a combination starting with the jab.

When a jab is slipped, the follow up strike is slowed down giving the opponent enough time to counter the jab before the follow up strike lands. This gives the impression that you've been frozen.

In a real fight, combinations are most effective against head movement, especially when a fighter is trying to counter after slipping a shot.

Look at the Gif below.



The combination was not interrupted because the jab was slipped. The 1-2 still flowed nicely. Imagine for a second that Ross tried to counter immediately after slipping the jab... He would get caught with the straight because he simply wouldn't have enough time.

What about this one?


Perfect slips, but it didn't slow down the combos at all. It all still flowed.

An extremely fast fighter could get away with trying to counter the jab before the follow up lands, but even the best boxer of this generation hasn't always been successful doing this.



When used as a combo starter, the jab is usually very very fast and this is why when fighters counter the jab after slipping it, it's usually because the jab was thrown as a single strike.



What's my point?

Head movement counters against combinations should be SAFEST after the last strike in a combination thrown. Usually, the time it takes to recover back to your block after you miss is longer than the time it takes for a follow up strike to land in a combo. This is why, countering a single jab, is easier than countering that same jab if it's followed up with another shot.

If a player throws a jab-straight combo at you, you should want to counter, AFTER you slip the straight... Not the jab. If a player throws a Jab-straight-left hook, you should wanna counter the left hook.

Boxers demonstrate this very well. If it's a combo, you will most likely see them counter after the last strike in the combo.



Anderson Silvas most famous highlight demonstrates that.



He only countered after the last strike of the combo.

This is what tends to happen when you slip and try to counter before the combo ends.



You get caught because slipping the first shot doesn't slow down the rest.

So a better nerf to head movement is actually a buff to combos. Don't slow down the combination after the first strike thrown is slipped. If players wanna risk slipping the first and firing back, great, but they will be at a MUCH greater risk of getting caught with the follow up shots trying to counter and the vulnerability on that would be high.

Players who start every strike with a slip first are dangerous now because when they slip that first shot, and you've queued a second one, you're screwed. Not only do you eat the counter but the vulnerability is also high.

So an example would be this.

Player A starts everything with a slip first.
Player B moves in, throws a Jab-straight-left hook...
Player A slips the Jab, goes to counter, eats the straight clean before his counter lands.
Player A wins the exchange.

If player A wants to use head movement.... YOU react to your opponents patterns. The fighter that is throwing shouldn't have to react to your head moving. You notice... is he throwing 2 strike combos? If he using 3 strike combos? Figure that out, then try to slip the LAST strike in his combo and then counter that.

So u run into those players that might wanna use the Jab-Jab-straight. You do this.



Slip the last shot. Far more realistic.

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

TL.DR Remove queued combos?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

TL.DR Remove queued combos?

Remove the delay after you have one punch slipped.

[TheJamesKraus]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Remove the delay after you have one punch slipped.

I'd rather remove queued combos completely. I realized the other day that I was performing ''soft combos'' in alot of my fights, only reason I noticed was because I went into practice mode.

Combinations rarely flow together compared to 2. I know it has been done deliberately to remove that awful combo multiplier but surely theres an inbetween?

[Trillz]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'd rather remove queued combos completely. I realized the other day that I was performing ''soft combos'' in alot of my fights, only reason I noticed was because I went into practice mode.

Combinations rarely flow together compared to 2. I know it has been done deliberately to remove that awful combo multiplier but surely theres an inbetween?

Yh i feel the combo system is one of the worst features of the game. Quickly inputting a combo strike for extra speed feels too much like tekken. I dont mind the qwerky ones like the whiff kick into the spinning backfist etc, but these guys spamming the 3-4 punch combos in quick succession feels so unreal. I would rather them made a combo list that the fighter normally throws in their fight but no extra combo speed or anything.

[Stealthhh]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Jesus this thread is massive!. Forgive me if this has already been suggested here by someone else, but I wonder if maybe we haven't explored fixing a glaring issue related to this.

If you throw a jab and ONLY the jab and it's slipped/ducked, you will have enough time to block the counter. Correct me if I am wrong on this.

If this is the case, the jab on it's own might be quite safe against head movement right now and that is good. The issue is when you queue up a combination starting with the jab.

When a jab is slipped, the follow up strike is slowed down giving the opponent enough time to counter the jab before the follow up strike lands. This gives the impression that you've been frozen.

In a real fight, combinations are most effective against head movement, especially when a fighter is trying to counter after slipping a shot.

Look at the Gif below.



The combination was not interrupted because the jab was slipped. The 1-2 still flowed nicely. Imagine for a second that Ross tried to counter immediately after slipping the jab... He would get caught with the straight because he simply wouldn't have enough time.

What about this one?


Perfect slips, but it didn't slow down the combos at all. It all still flowed.

An extremely fast fighter could get away with trying to counter the jab before the follow up lands, but even the best boxer of this generation hasn't always been successful doing this.



When used as a combo starter, the jab is usually very very fast and this is why when fighters counter the jab after slipping it, it's usually because the jab was thrown as a single strike.



What's my point?

Head movement counters against combinations should be SAFEST after the last strike in a combination thrown. Usually, the time it takes to recover back to your block after you miss is longer than the time it takes for a follow up strike to land in a combo. This is why, countering a single jab, is easier than countering that same jab if it's followed up with another shot.

If a player throws a jab-straight combo at you, you should want to counter, AFTER you slip the straight... Not the jab. If a player throws a Jab-straight-left hook, you should wanna counter the left hook.

Boxers demonstrate this very well. If it's a combo, you will most likely see them counter after the last strike in the combo.



Anderson Silvas most famous highlight demonstrates that.



He only countered after the last strike of the combo.

This is what tends to happen when you slip and try to counter before the combo ends.



You get caught because slipping the first shot doesn't slow down the rest.

So a better nerf to head movement is actually a buff to combos. Don't slow down the combination after the first strike thrown is slipped. If players wanna risk slipping the first and firing back, great, but they will be at a MUCH greater risk of getting caught with the follow up shots trying to counter and the vulnerability on that would be high.

Players who start every strike with a slip first are dangerous now because when they slip that first shot, and you've queued a second one, you're screwed. Not only do you eat the counter but the vulnerability is also high.

So an example would be this.

Player A starts everything with a slip first.
Player B moves in, throws a Jab-straight-left hook...
Player A slips the Jab, goes to counter, eats the straight clean before his counter lands.
Player A wins the exchange.

If player A wants to use head movement.... YOU react to your opponents patterns. The fighter that is throwing shouldn't have to react to your head moving. You notice... is he throwing 2 strike combos? If he using 3 strike combos? Figure that out, then try to slip the LAST strike in his combo and then counter that.

So u run into those players that might wanna use the Jab-Jab-straight. You do this.



Slip the last shot. Far more realistic.

This times 10!^ I was gonna post something about this, just didn't know how to word it properly, especially with the gifs well done man. I was in practice mode the other day trying to figure out if you can throw a 1-2 if your opponent slips, but only the jab comes out not the straight. So it freezes your second punch. Hooks and uppercuts are slowed down, but 1-2's don't register if the jab is slipped. Thank you for making this post with the amount of detail you put in it.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Jesus this thread is massive!. Forgive me if this has already been suggested here by someone else, but I wonder if maybe we haven't explored fixing a glaring issue related to this.

If you throw a jab and ONLY the jab and it's slipped/ducked, you will have enough time to block the counter. Correct me if I am wrong on this.

If this is the case, the jab on it's own might be quite safe against head movement right now and that is good. The issue is when you queue up a combination starting with the jab.

When a jab is slipped, the follow up strike is slowed down giving the opponent enough time to counter the jab before the follow up strike lands. This gives the impression that you've been frozen.

In a real fight, combinations are most effective against head movement, especially when a fighter is trying to counter after slipping a shot.

Look at the Gif below.



The combination was not interrupted because the jab was slipped. The 1-2 still flowed nicely. Imagine for a second that Ross tried to counter immediately after slipping the jab... He would get caught with the straight because he simply wouldn't have enough time.

What about this one?


Perfect slips, but it didn't slow down the combos at all. It all still flowed.

An extremely fast fighter could get away with trying to counter the jab before the follow up lands, but even the best boxer of this generation hasn't always been successful doing this.



When used as a combo starter, the jab is usually very very fast and this is why when fighters counter the jab after slipping it, it's usually because the jab was thrown as a single strike.



What's my point?

Head movement counters against combinations should be SAFEST after the last strike in a combination thrown. Usually, the time it takes to recover back to your block after you miss is longer than the time it takes for a follow up strike to land in a combo. This is why, countering a single jab, is easier than countering that same jab if it's followed up with another shot.

If a player throws a jab-straight combo at you, you should want to counter, AFTER you slip the straight... Not the jab. If a player throws a Jab-straight-left hook, you should wanna counter the left hook.

Boxers demonstrate this very well. If it's a combo, you will most likely see them counter after the last strike in the combo.



Anderson Silvas most famous highlight demonstrates that.



He only countered after the last strike of the combo.

This is what tends to happen when you slip and try to counter before the combo ends.



You get caught because slipping the first shot doesn't slow down the rest.

So a better nerf to head movement is actually a buff to combos. Don't slow down the combination after the first strike thrown is slipped. If players wanna risk slipping the first and firing back, great, but they will be at a MUCH greater risk of getting caught with the follow up shots trying to counter and the vulnerability on that would be high.

Players who start every strike with a slip first are dangerous now because when they slip that first shot, and you've queued a second one, you're screwed. Not only do you eat the counter but the vulnerability is also high.

So an example would be this.

Player A starts everything with a slip first.
Player B moves in, throws a Jab-straight-left hook...
Player A slips the Jab, goes to counter, eats the straight clean before his counter lands.
Player A wins the exchange.

If player A wants to use head movement.... YOU react to your opponents patterns. The fighter that is throwing shouldn't have to react to your head moving. You notice... is he throwing 2 strike combos? If he using 3 strike combos? Figure that out, then try to slip the LAST strike in his combo and then counter that.

So u run into those players that might wanna use the Jab-Jab-straight. You do this.



Slip the last shot. Far more realistic.

This is a great solution. Force the opponent to actually make reads instead of guessing. If they plan to slip the strike and misread the combo ending, they get cracked. This also inherently makes head movement less used. I will be quite disappointed if a suggestion as good as this doesn't at least get tested.

[Stealthhh]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

This is a great solution. Force the opponent to actually make reads instead of guessing. If they plan to slip the strike and misread the combo ending, they get cracked. This also inherently makes head movement less used. I will be quite disappointed if a suggestion as good as this doesn't at least get tested.

This would make fights look more fluid, from a realistic standpoint, and would be a perfect punishment for head movement spammers. It's a win, win imo.

[Paledude45]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

That was an excellent post by Martial Mind. Right now you can slip a jab and immediately fire off a counter uppercut before your opponent can finish off their combination. Hence why so many players are swaying or ducking before starting their combo, or simply just looking for that "one shot rock." It makes combos essentially useless as you can basically sway or duck and rock your opponent off of one punch.

I also agree with the removal of queued combos. Right now a jab + lead body kick comes out faster than a single body kick, this makes no sense to me. Just because you have inputted the proper combo does not mean it should come out faster where your opponent essentially becomes stuck in a stun lock as you are firing off your queued combination.