The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

As this thread focuses on realism, I feel a new small issue has come up since this game was released in terms of the "look" on the field. It's not a downfall of programming, just technology has advanced and the game needs to be adjusted by the user to match it. I know this isn't gameplay, but it's presentation, which is just as important if you want it to feel like a good sim. A few keys to presentation to keep it real:

-Shoulder pads. It seems the default setting for pad height is "80." Almost every recruit comes in with giant "80" height shoulder pads, even skill guys lol. 20 and below gives a nice low pad shelf and fits modern times more. This even goes for lineman, as we see them wearing small shoulder pads too.

-Tight sleeves, obviously. We don't have the loose option, so that sucks for a dropback passer. In college, however, more QB's wear a fitted jersey anyway. I find the best solution, particularly for QB, is to do sleeves tight and do an undershirt. Whether that is a 3/4 sleeve to cover his shoulders, or a "shooters sleeve" on his passing arm (which I am a big fan of), it looks more realistic than "sleeves standard."

-Helmets. As we move toward the 2018 season, we see VERY few players wearing the old school Riddell and AIR, and Schutt helmets. In the NFL, they have even started to ban some of these older models (the Revolution and DNA, which came out when I was in HS, were the pinnacle of helmet tech in 2006. Now, the revolution is listed by the NFL as on the lower end of protection). As such, just for a touch of visual realism, I recommend sticking to the newer helmets in the game by the time you hit maybe 2016-2017 and on. This includes:

-DNA (looks a lot like the newer Vicis too, so that's nice)
-Revolution
-Revo speed
-Ion 4D

The downside is the facemasks tend to be a bit more limited, and their Revo speed model is a bit off (brow is too low, facemasks are undersized). Overall, however, I feel it's more realistic. I'm in 2022, and have just a few guys left wearing the old styles. I plan to be switching every player to one of the 4 newer models in the future. I usually lightly mod upcoming opponents equipment (tight sleeves, for example). So I will likely switch them to the newer stuff too.

Those are just a few of my visual adjustments to keep the game modern.

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I may have to try this. Anyone else have success with this approach?

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I've yet to try it. There are several things I have been tinkering with in my test dynasty which have occupied my time, but I do plan on trying it at some point. I was kinda waiting/interested to see what you all said about it.

[young22]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

As this thread focuses on realism, I feel a new small issue has come up since this game was released in terms of the "look" on the field. It's not a downfall of programming, just technology has advanced and the game needs to be adjusted by the user to match it. I know this isn't gameplay, but it's presentation, which is just as important if you want it to feel like a good sim. A few keys to presentation to keep it real:

-Shoulder pads. It seems the default setting for pad height is "80." Almost every recruit comes in with giant "80" height shoulder pads, even skill guys lol. 20 and below gives a nice low pad shelf and fits modern times more. This even goes for lineman, as we see them wearing small shoulder pads too.

-Tight sleeves, obviously. We don't have the loose option, so that sucks for a dropback passer. In college, however, more QB's wear a fitted jersey anyway. I find the best solution, particularly for QB, is to do sleeves tight and do an undershirt. Whether that is a 3/4 sleeve to cover his shoulders, or a "shooters sleeve" on his passing arm (which I am a big fan of), it looks more realistic than "sleeves standard."

-Helmets. As we move toward the 2018 season, we see VERY few players wearing the old school Riddell and AIR, and Schutt helmets. In the NFL, they have even started to ban some of these older models (the Revolution and DNA, which came out when I was in HS, were the pinnacle of helmet tech in 2006. Now, the revolution is listed by the NFL as on the lower end of protection). As such, just for a touch of visual realism, I recommend sticking to the newer helmets in the game by the time you hit maybe 2016-2017 and on. This includes:

-DNA (looks a lot like the newer Vicis too, so that's nice)
-Revolution
-Revo speed
-Ion 4D

The downside is the facemasks tend to be a bit more limited, and their Revo speed model is a bit off (brow is too low, facemasks are undersized). Overall, however, I feel it's more realistic. I'm in 2022, and have just a few guys left wearing the old styles. I plan to be switching every player to one of the 4 newer models in the future. I usually lightly mod upcoming opponents equipment (tight sleeves, for example). So I will likely switch them to the newer stuff too.

Those are just a few of my visual adjustments to keep the game modern.

I'm huge on editing equipment. I hate the shoulder pads, and a lot of guys will come in wearing neck pads, which I don't think anyone wears anymore. And the default equipment just looks wack, I like giving guys one sleeve, or bands on their arms. Helmets are big for me too. I pretty much only assign revo speed, airxp and DNA.

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[GrayDawg]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Something to try: start with fatigue On, then switch it off at the half, run a play and switch it back on. I tried it, and it seems to be like a hard reset. CPU goes back to their players playing to their ratings, and you get subbing/injuries.

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So I put in a couple games with this set up and I have to say it seems to work. At the 2nd half kickoff I switched fatigue to off. Afterwards I switched it back to on. Feels like both teams fighting to get the win. I'm sold. Will be doing this from now on.

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[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Throughout the season I have noted a couple things I needed to change.

The first two were sliders. I use Matt10's. If you are using these with coaching trees empty, I recommend the following:

-Turn tackling up from 15 to 20. At 15, the only way to make tackles is a gang tackle. QB's, WR's, RB's...anyone will shed at least the first 2 tacklers unless you do so, seemingly regardless of rating. At 20-25 they still shed quite a few (especially if its a game the CPU seems to want to fight you lol), but not to an extent like before. At the new setting, they'll break some, and you'll still have games where anyone would say "wow they need to work on tackling next week."

-This one I'm still messing with, but possibly turning RB ability from 40 to 45. At 40, I almost NEVER break a tackle. The only move that does anything is a spin, they are super slow off the ball and with moves, and I seem to almost always be under 4 yards per carry. I need to check but I think I have like 1 carry for over 20 yards all season. Granted, my running backs are an 80 and 77 overall, but they also seem SUPER slow, as if in slow motion. One has 92 speed and gets run down by lineman constantly. I turned it up to 45, and it seems their speed now actually matters. They can hit a hole before it closes, they shed a tackle here and there, and when I do a juke it's normal. At 40, it's as if every move is in slow motion. I only did this in the 4th quarter of my most recent game, since I was blowing out my opponent anyway I decided to try it. In that quarter, my average was probably closer to 4.5 yards per carry. That seems more realistic because my whole O-Line was on fire, and already rated higher than the D-Line. It seemed changing it to 45 also changed how they blocked, but I think that's just because now my RB actually hits the hole in a timely manner.

These are two issues I have noted just this season, since leaving coaching trees empty. I've been using these sliders going on 3 seasons now, and previously these were not problems. Obviously coaching trees had an impact.


The other change I recommend is allowing ONE upgrade to your OC coaching tree...set up plays. I still need to mess with this. As it is set empty, my set-up plays are literally never ready. I could run HB Power 10-15 times in the game, for anywhere from 2-5 yards a pop, and PA HB Power never gets set up. Its just unrealistic. I am going to give it one point (I think that supposedly makes them set up 10% faster) and work with that for a bit to see if its better.



That's all for now. As I go, I'll keep an eye out for changes. If there are a lot, I may make a thread about a slider set to use when you leave coaching trees empty.

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I appreciate your thoughts on it, because as much as I love these sliders and have raved about them, I have also noticed some discrepancies between USER and CPU players with similar or even identical attributes that I just can't get over. I'm currently experimenting with a more default approach that a lot of guys like JoshC and Jbrew have talked about playing with.

I'm really starting to see the game like this:

Default 50/50s represent balance in so many things, most notably players and their attributes.

Fatigue off takes away the dreadful faster CPU fatigue rate that I believe in & believe is the biggest detriment to this game.

Skill Trees off evens things back out between the USER & CPU. If you didn't touch the controller, things would be even. I still believe the USER's skills and knowledge of the game create an imbalance between the USER & CPU players' attributes. Skill Trees off remedies this, I believe, or is at least the best option for those of us who don't want to do "Coach Mode".

Stricter than strict recruiting and play-calling house rules give dynasties longevity. Without them, you will dominate in a few seasons regardless of any settings, including these. The random recruiting method I have been doing has saved the game for me.

As far as visuals, I've noticed animations are lost and gained with every switch of slider sets. They all have their strong and weak points. So, as always, my primary focus is still finding balance between the USER and CPU.

[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I decided to leave the RB ability at the 40 per the slider set. My running game came on strong late in the year, and both RB's averaged over 4 ypc. For an 80 and 77 overall, I think that is more than reasonable.

I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but turn user interceptions from 35 to 40. At 35, I was dead last in interceptions despite a strong secondary. At 40, I was somewhere in the 20th ranks. 35 they drop every pick, 40 they have a good balance. It seems to make the deep ball a true 50/50 as well.

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I decided to leave the RB ability at the 40 per the slider set. My running game came on strong late in the year, and both RB's averaged over 4 ypc. For an 80 and 77 overall, I think that is more than reasonable.

I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but turn user interceptions from 35 to 40. At 35, I was dead last in interceptions despite a strong secondary. At 40, I was somewhere in the 20th ranks. 35 they drop every pick, 40 they have a good balance. It seems to make the deep ball a true 50/50 as well.

I definitely noticed the interception difference, like we discussed in the other thread. Like I said in my kicking thread, I've recently changed to other sliders entirely and I think I may finally be happy for a while. I plan on rewriting the OP in this thread to match my new setup. Same principles apply, just a better solution to the problems I see.

[young22]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I highly recommend JKits sliders. With the fatigue on/off switch, I've actually had to make them a lot easier, especially user RBA.

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[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I highly recommend JKits sliders. With the fatigue on/off switch, I've actually had to make them a lot easier, especially user RBA.

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I'm going to these for 2023, or any new dynasty I start.

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

I'm going to these for 2023, or any new dynasty I start.

Alright, fellas, new setup edited into OP. I recommend anyone still struggling with things to check it out. It's a bit of a lengthy read, but well worth it, IMO.

Especially you, Bullet, as this directly fixes some issues you and I have discussed lately. I definitely recommend you at least try it before your new dynasty. You know, the one you keep putting off but know that you will inevitably start .

[SilverBullet19]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Alright, fellas, new setup edited into OP. I recommend anyone still struggling with things to check it out. It's a bit of a lengthy read, but well worth it, IMO.

Especially you, Bullet, as this directly fixes some issues you and I have discussed lately. I definitely recommend you at least try it before your new dynasty. You know, the one you keep putting off but know that you will inevitably start .

Hey man...to be fair...if I achieve the challenge I need, I won't need to start a new dynasty lol. My big things were:

#1) Too easy. Despite sliders and house rules, I was crushing most teams equal to me. Late in the season, I got some decent challenge. Two comeback wins, and a 45-45 tie late in the third in the national championship was fun.

#2) Bored with uniforms. I was able to edit them using the editor though, so that's covered.

With those in place, I do plan to continue my Sonoma State dynasty for the time being. I'll take a look at the OP for the new suggestions.

On another note, I found that both Oklahoma and TCU played me much tougher when I was on the road. The first meetings with them I beat Oklahoma 24-10, and TCU 45-24. Both were home games for me.

At neutral site games, it was different. I had to come back from down 17-3 to beat Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship, including a late score with under 2 minutes left to win it. TCU fought me in the title game, and tied it in the 3rd before a TD kick return broke it open a bit.

In total on the year, I had 3 one score games. One was at home (comeback over Texas), one on the road, one neutral site.

Based on this, I think I will leave homefield advantage on for away games to give the CPU a boost, and turn it OFF for home games. I think it will lead to a better challenge.

[Tuscaloosa]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Hey man...to be fair...if I achieve the challenge I need, I won't need to start a new dynasty lol. My big things were:

#1) Too easy. Despite sliders and house rules, I was crushing most teams equal to me. Late in the season, I got some decent challenge. Two comeback wins, and a 45-45 tie late in the third in the national championship was fun.

#2) Bored with uniforms. I was able to edit them using the editor though, so that's covered.

With those in place, I do plan to continue my Sonoma State dynasty for the time being. I'll take a look at the OP for the new suggestions.

On another note, I found that both Oklahoma and TCU played me much tougher when I was on the road. The first meetings with them I beat Oklahoma 24-10, and TCU 45-24. Both were home games for me.

At neutral site games, it was different. I had to come back from down 17-3 to beat Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship, including a late score with under 2 minutes left to win it. TCU fought me in the title game, and tied it in the 3rd before a TD kick return broke it open a bit.

In total on the year, I had 3 one score games. One was at home (comeback over Texas), one on the road, one neutral site.

Based on this, I think I will leave homefield advantage on for away games to give the CPU a boost, and turn it OFF for home games. I think it will lead to a better challenge.

Interesting. I always go HFA off. I always felt like it was reversed, like I got boosts on the road. To be fair though, the last time I had it on was forever ago and I can't begin to remember what setup I was using then. I think I'll keep it off for now, since my main priorities are making team ratings/letter grades matter and balance between the USER and CPU. I don't want to introduce anything that might throw that balance off. If ever I feel like something's missing, I'll add this to the list of things to try though.

[young22]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

So I'm bored yesterday, looking through old threads on my phone trying to find anything that could make the game better. Found an old thread where some guy said that if you shift your run pass slider towards the run (to the left), it really improves the CPU playcalls as far as being aggressive in the pass game. Tried it out, and game 1 saw me give up 367 yards and 3 scores on 29 completions. I did pick off the CPU 3 times, but I was playing against Kent State, and all 3 picks were from my one stud safety, bailed us out completely. I've rarely had the CPU get 12-13 yards per completion without being super OP. I think this is legit.

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[young22]

Re: The Game Outside of the Game - Issues and How to Fix Them

Interesting. I always go HFA off. I always felt like it was reversed, like I got boosts on the road. To be fair though, the last time I had it on was forever ago and I can't begin to remember what setup I was using then. I think I'll keep it off for now, since my main priorities are making team ratings/letter grades matter and balance between the USER and CPU. I don't want to introduce anything that might throw that balance off. If ever I feel like something's missing, I'll add this to the list of things to try though.

I'd say turn it off at home on on the road like Bullet said. Feels like on the road it brings that momentum, where if you don't start off well, the home team will get hype and just kill you. Lost 44-13 to an Akron team that wasn't rated much better than my teambuilder.

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