run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Finally found a team to give the Walsh WC book to:

2013 CIN has a new coach that runs a WC Scheme out of the PHI book...

Tried that and Woodhead (new starting HB) ran 25 times to 5 passes by the half so I quit...

Restarted with generic WC book...

They played a really nice game, but seemed kind of "flat" and lost...

For 2013 game 2, I decided to recast the new guy as a "Walsh Coaching Tree" guy and gave him the book that made Walsh famous with the Bengals...

Well:

Dalton looked like the second coming of Ken Anderson...

350 Yards passing / 2 TDs versus 1 INT / great ball distribution...

The PA rollouts looked amazing...

Lots of split back / near / far sets...

Woodhead ran 12 times for 50 / FB ran about 6 for 25 / BJGE (backup role) ran a few...

I've played the Bengals a number of times and have used a number of books for them, based on scheme and this one made them TAKE OFF...

It's wild how the game looks and plays when you hit the "sweet spot" with a book for the CPU...

The really just "light up" statistically...but oddly enough...visually as well...

Saw a lot of things I've NEVER seen the CPU execute so smoothly...

The Walsh playbook is deadly. I gave it to the Raiders in my CCM and they constantly seem to torch me with it. A couple seasons ago they ran all over me with a bunch of draws and inside handoffs and as of the last two seasons they've destroyed me offensively through the quick passing game.

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

The really just "light up" statistically...but oddly enough...visually as well...

Saw a lot of things I've NEVER seen the CPU execute so smoothly...

Wish I saw those things...

I just get 75% passes.

With the team playbooks - I get more dynamic play calling that seems to attack what I'm struggling with and mix it up.

This whole thing is a mess.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Wish I saw those things...

I just get 75% passes.

With the team playbooks - I get more dynamic play calling that seems to attack what I'm struggling with and mix it up.

This whole thing is a mess.

Yeah, I'm stumped!

I just played 2013 SEA out of their default book and they ran 24 times / passed 24 times and had a few dropbacks turn into successful scrambles / runs...

They were SO committed to the run, they even ran three 3rd and Short draws...one of which was for a first down...

Hmmm...

???


EDIT:

I wonder if it's because in 2013, my secondary consists of a very highly rated Haden, Chris Houston, a rookie FS who's a 79 and Ward who's an 85...

They threw all over me in 2012 when I had to start Buster Skrine and Patterson due to inj, so...

Maybe?

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Yeah, I'm stumped!

I just played 2013 SEA out of their default book and they ran 24 times / passed 24 times and had a few dropbacks turn into successful scrambles / runs...

They were SO committed to the run, they even ran three 3rd and Short draws...one of which was for a first down...

Hmmm...

???


EDIT:

I wonder if it's because in 2013, my secondary consists of a very highly rated Haden, Chris Houston, a rookie FS who's a 79 and Ward who's an 85...

They threw all over me in 2012 when I had to start Buster Skrine and Patterson due to inj, so...

Maybe?

That could be it - though I also saw it with the Ravens whose secondary is much better than the Raiders.

Webb and Reed are top tier - Smith is decent. I don't know...but I guess if the team playbooks keep doing it, at least that's one small step I don't need to do each game.

Don't know if you saw my last CCM post but Bucs beat me 27-14 with a 58% pass selection with the Bucs PB and had me guessing between stopping a hot Freeman or a hot Martin all day.

At first, I thought I'd see tons of runs, but then the run set up PA, then draws, then PA, then deep to VJax, short to Clark, my guys were like chickens with their heads cut off.

Is it because I'm using a Legend PB (Tom Landry)? Maybe it's if one team is using a generic/Legends PB, the run-too-much issue doesn't show up?

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

That could be it - though I also saw it with the Ravens whose secondary is much better than the Raiders.

Webb and Reed are top tier - Smith is decent. I don't know...but I guess if the team playbooks keep doing it, at least that's one small step I don't need to do each game.

Don't know if you saw my last CCM post but Bucs beat me 27-14 with a 58% pass selection with the Bucs PB and had me guessing between stopping a hot Freeman or a hot Martin all day.

At first, I thought I'd see tons of runs, but then the run set up PA, then draws, then PA, then deep to VJax, short to Clark, my guys were like chickens with their heads cut off.

Is it because I'm using a Legend PB (Tom Landry)? Maybe it's if one team is using a generic/Legends PB, the run-too-much issue doesn't show up?

Firstly, that TB game looks perfecto...

Secondly, some of the team specifics are more "run heavy" than others...

Based on the past, I'd say they are SEA / STL / TB / MN / KC / NYJ

Run Heavy teams that have books that aren't as run heavy are: BAL / HOU / AZ / ATL / CHI / SF

I think the difference is the number of plays / how they're tiered / etc

Also, those teams have more emphasis on the "feature back" than the QB, so there may be something there...

Lastly, I'm using Vermeil and have seen very different "reactions" from the CPU from 2012 to 2103, so I think it's more personnel based (both what they have and what I have to defend)...

Besides, the Landry and Vermeil are O books, so I think they trigger off your D Book...

I have Tampa 2...

What D Book / Scheme do you run with?

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Besides, the Landry and Vermeil are O books, so I think they trigger off your D Book...

I have Tampa 2...

What D Book / Scheme do you run with?

Well, this IS an EA product we're talking about here... :wink:

I'm using 4-3 right now. Scheme is Base 4-3 for now (was Attacking 4-3)

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Well, this IS an EA product we're talking about here... :wink:

I'm using 4-3 right now. Scheme is Base 4-3 for now (was Attacking 4-3)

True 'dat on the EA!



I don't discount ANYTHING, I'm just "playing the percentages" re: the current "culprit"...

As I said, some "run" team books play very differently than others...

I wonder if we were able to narrow down which ones give the best result (SEA for example) we could apply those books to other teams that we want similar splits from...

I suspected SEA would bear out to be a 50 /50 book for two reasons:

1) It's been a very run heavy book for years, and little changes in the world of Madden

2) The sim engine had splits for Wilson and Lynch (plus backups) that were 50 / 50

The BAL book, for instance is supposed to be power run, but the sim engine has more of a 60 /40 split...

IF (IF IF) the sim engine runs off the book (at least in part) then sim splits MAY indicate which of the run heavy books are REALLY / ACTUALLY run heavy...

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Good theory, I'll ran the splits in my Oakland CC since that one is farthest into the season (larger sample).

League-wide, the pass percentage is 53%

The Saints, Jags, Broncos, Lions, and Pats are at 60% or higher passing. Saints are on top with 65.6% passing.

(I've passed 61% as the Raiders, but did not include them as that's me and not the CPU)

The Browns, Bucs, Chiefs, 49ers, Jets, Redskins, and Vikings are under 50% passing. The Jets are the lowest at 45%.

Most of the rest of the teams gravitate around 52-55%

For me, the Ravens are at 51% pass.

P.S. How do you change the importance stars on the scheme screen? I checked the "manual" on the disc and it said nothing about that (some manual).

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Good theory, I'll ran the splits in my Oakland CC since that one is farthest into the season (larger sample).

League-wide, the pass percentage is 53%

The Saints, Jags, Broncos, Lions, and Pats are at 60% or higher passing. Saints are on top with 65.6% passing.

(I've passed 61% as the Raiders, but did not include them as that's me and not the CPU)

The Browns, Bucs, Chiefs, 49ers, Jets, Redskins, and Vikings are under 50% passing. The Jets are the lowest at 45%.

Most of the rest of the teams gravitate around 52-55%

For me, the Ravens are at 51% pass.

P.S. How do you change the importance stars on the scheme screen? I checked the "manual" on the disc and it said nothing about that (some manual).

I just played the 2013 Rams...

Bradford and Jackson were both out due to injury and appear to have been for a few weeks...

They are replaced by a rookie QB and a 1st year HB...

The TOTAL splits for both QBs versus BOTH HBs (a their backup) was 4 (passes) to 3 (runs) in the sim stats as of Week 11...

The splits for just the Rookie and the 1st year HB were even...

Used the team specific...

They ran 40 (for nearly 200) and passed 30...

Combine that with a handful of sacks (very unusual) and I get housed:

STL 27 CLE 10

I really think the sim splits can tell us which "run" books are REALLY "run" books...

OH:

Lastly, you can't change the importance stars...

Maybe someday!

Took me a while to get over that myself...

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I just played the 2013 Rams...

Bradford and Jackson were both out due to injury and appear to have been for a few weeks...

They are replaced by a rookie QB and a 1st year HB...

The TOTAL splits for both QBs versus BOTH HBs (a their backup) was 4 (passes) to 3 (runs) in the sim stats as of Week 11...

The splits for just the Rookie and the 1st year HB were even...

Used the team specific...

They ran 40 (for nearly 200) and passed 30...

Combine that with a handful of sacks (very unusual) and I get housed:

STL 27 CLE 10

I really think the sim splits can tell us which "run" books are REALLY "run" books...

Heheh, sounds like the typical game with the Raiders :P I'm an amazing 4th quarter away from being 3-5

The sim splits make sense - maybe we need some guys to report their sim results for run/pass splits and we can maybe get some ideas?

Still..though...doesn't explain the WTF pass splits I get with the generic books...

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Still..though...doesn't explain the WTF pass splits I get with the generic books...

I think the generics and legends are driven more by personnel and scheme...

I feel the "answer" is really close, but I can't "see" it yet...

Anyway:

Your sliders must be tight cause 3-5 is a really satisfying result...

Remind me:

Which CCM is AP and which of your is AM?

I still think level is a factor...

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I think the generics and legends are driven more by personnel and scheme...

I feel the "answer" is really close, but I can't "see" it yet...

Anyway:

Your sliders must be tight cause 3-5 is a really satisfying result...

Remind me:

Which CCM is AP and which of your is AM?

I still think level is a factor...

Oakland is using AM

Ravens are using AP, which is just slightly changed off the AM set. Mainly, I added a few points to both sides' defense, doubled the CPU's QB Acc and cut the User QB Acc down by a third.

Played the Pats (I think) and the game was solid overall. Good run/pass split out of the Pats' book (60% pass). Was able to harass Brady and the DBs stepped up.

If skill is a factor - so far, it hasn't shown up across the two.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I agree with KBLover that there are too many passes at times but I think that's related to a couple books. I'm going to stop using pass balanced as the CPU rarely runs out of traditional sets. More draws and too many overall passes. That play book isn't good for teams like SD IMO.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Just played 2013 HOU, and they kind of blew my "sim stats reflect in game splits" theory...

The splits in the sim engine as of Week 11 are about 55 / 45 pass...

In game (using team specific), they ended up closer to 50 / 50, which wasn't the problem...

They ran "too much" in the first half (some dumb 3rd and medium run calls) and when they fell behind they leaned on the SCREEN PASS...

I'm kind of throwing this one out as a "sample" though, because their QB is Kurt Warner...

Although he has really high attributes, in game he stinks on a level I've only seen (so far) out of T. Jax / Tebow / with a "conditional nod" to Cassell...

IF I ever play them again, I'm going run balance...

At least that might get A. Johnson more involved...

This one was one of the ONLY games I've played since the patch / workarounds / etc that had really lame paycalling...

Regardless of splits...

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I agree with KBLover that there are too many passes at times but I think that's related to a couple books. I'm going to stop using pass balanced as the CPU rarely runs out of traditional sets. More draws and too many overall passes. That play book isn't good for teams like SD IMO.

I've become a proponent of "downgrading" the books:

Vertical: Balanced
Balanced: Run Balanced
Run Heavy: Team Book (with some of the more pass based run heavy teams / power run / zone run getting the run balanced to involve decently rated QBs / WRs / etc

I give the spread teams either the RNG or Billick

I give the WC teams with the WC generic or the Walsh (CIN)

I give OAK the Madden and DAL the Landry (nice variety and they play well out of those books)

I agree with Deuce, that as the seasons play out, the original workaround isn't as "universal" and you kind of have to "massage" who gets what book and hope you guess right!

I wish I took better notes from my 2013 re: what worked and what didn't...but a lot of it is in this thread, so I have to pull some of that together to get the best results possible moving forward...