run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Just lost to Ravens as Oakland 23-20.

Hard-hitting game. Ravens played like the Ravens should play - lean on Rice, throw when you must (preferably to Rice - which he did for a TD), hope Flacco avoids mistakes (he did well there after a shaky start).

Ravens went with the run a lot - but they've done that this year as well (and won...makes you wonder why they DON'T more irl...it's how the team is built...)

So far - I haven't needed the workaround - teams are playing as they should, using the guys they should and finding mismatches.

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I agree with KBLover that there are too many passes at times but I think that's related to a couple books. I'm going to stop using pass balanced as the CPU rarely runs out of traditional sets. More draws and too many overall passes. That play book isn't good for teams like SD IMO.

I get the 70-75+ percent passing with any of the generic PB...

[rudyjuly2]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I get the 70-75+ percent passing with any of the generic PB...

I don't see that with run balanced or west coast. I will never go back to default play books though. Seeing 80% runs on first and second down drove me nuts.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I agree with KBLover that there are too many passes at times but I think that's related to a couple books. I'm going to stop using pass balanced as the CPU rarely runs out of traditional sets. More draws and too many overall passes. That play book isn't good for teams like SD IMO.

I get the 70-75+ percent passing with any of the generic PB...

It's amazing how different things can be between CCM's. I just played the Giants in year 8 of my CCM and they still had Eli at QB and three really high rated WR's as well. Their RB was Beanie Wells who was only like a 78 so I gave them the Pass Balanced playbook. I beat them 27-24 and they threw 32 times and ran 31 times.

Their coach was John Fox whose offensive scheme is Balanced so I'm guessing that had something to do with it. I wonder if maybe teams have multiple gameplans coming into games where one is run oriented, one is pass oriented, and one is balanced and basically one is just randomly chosen going into each game. I don't know. Like it's been said before, there seems to be a lot of moving parts and sometimes they line up and work extremely well and sometimes they don't and everything explodes.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I don't see that with run balanced or west coast. I will never go back to default play books though. Seeing 80% runs on first and second down drove me nuts.

Strangely enough, as Deuce pointed out this isn't always the case as the years play out and the AI "adjusts" for HC changes / scheme changes / personnel changes / etc...

Every once in a while the team book "reverts" to it's 2012 / default crazy amount of runs...

But it's rare...

I used a lot of team specifics in 2013, and the only one the really stood out as being lame was that HOU example...

But that may have had a lot to do with "Virtual Warner" who really should have stuck with bagging groceries this time around...

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Strangely enough, as Deuce pointed out this isn't always the case as the years play out and the AI "adjusts" for HC changes / scheme changes / personnel changes / etc...

Every once in a while the team book "reverts" to it's 2012 / default crazy amount of runs...

But it's rare...

I used a lot of team specifics in 2013, and the only one the really stood out as being lame was that HOU example...

But that may have had a lot to do with "Virtual Warner" who really should have stuck with bagging groceries this time around...

I'm going to start doing this as well and be less hesitant to let them use the team specifics as well. I did it once in the season I'm currently in against the Eagles and they ran 33 times and threw 26 times and it seemed okay. They had McCarthy as their coach and I was pleasantly surprised with how their playcalling was throughout the game.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I'm going to start doing this as well and be less hesitant to let them use the team specifics as well. I did it once in the season I'm currently in against the Eagles and they ran 33 times and threw 26 times and it seemed okay. They had McCarthy as their coach and I was pleasantly surprised with how their playcalling was throughout the game.

PHI book is weird:

Against PHI in 2012, I had to stop at halftime because McCoy had about 25 carries to 5 passes...

I gave them the RNG and they rocked it...

The "Imaginary" new HC who took over for Lewis in CIN had the PHI book tied to him...

Tried using it and the result was the same...25 runs (by Woodhead, no less) and 5 passes...

Gave them generic WC the first time and they did well...

Gave them Walsh the second time and they went OFF!!!

You however, got a very different result out of a different set of "moving parts"...

Bottom line:

This little "story" regarding the PHI book and it's application / outcome is a prime example of how many "moving parts" there are...

I just wish we could conclusively identify them...

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

PHI book is weird:

Against PHI in 2012, I had to stop at halftime because McCoy had about 25 carries to 5 passes...

I gave them the RNG and they rocked it...

The "Imaginary" new HC who took over for Lewis in CIN had the PHI book tied to him...

Tried using it and the result was the same...25 runs (by Woodhead, no less) and 5 passes...

Gave them generic WC the first time and they did well...

Gave them Walsh the second time and they went OFF!!!

You however, got a very different result out of a different set of "moving parts"...

Bottom line:

This little "story" regarding the PHI book and it's application / outcome is a prime example of how many "moving parts" there are...

I just wish we could conclusively identify them...

I forgot to mention that the playbook they were using was Green Bay's since McCarthy was their head coach. I haven't done it with any other teams yet but I've been playing against a lot of the fictional coaches lately so I haven't had to change much. I get Buffalo in, I think, 2 games so I'm thinking I might leave them alone and see what happens. Their coach is Pete Carroll and I play them every year in preseason. I've been just giving them the balanced book but it's hard to get a read on anything in preseason.

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Their coach was John Fox whose offensive scheme is Balanced so I'm guessing that had something to do with it. I wonder if maybe teams have multiple gameplans coming into games where one is run oriented, one is pass oriented, and one is balanced and basically one is just randomly chosen going into each game. I don't know. Like it's been said before, there seems to be a lot of moving parts and sometimes they line up and work extremely well and sometimes they don't and everything explodes.

So why is it that I seem to be the only one in Year 1 that's not getting this horrible play calling that prompted the concept of the workaround.

I keep hearing moving parts, etc, but that doesn't make sense. What is the practical probability of the "stars aligning" to where it's working nearly perfectly and believably while everyone else got 80% runs?

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I don't see that with run balanced or west coast. I will never go back to default play books though. Seeing 80% runs on first and second down drove me nuts.

I'm about to feel that way with the generics.

Seeing 70-75% passes every game drove me nuts.

I've been LOOKING for this horrible playing calling I've read so much about - and what I see is teams playing like they should.

I would think Ravens would have ran 80% of the time, especially once Rice broke on for 69 yards. Nope, just playing "Raven ball".

Broncos leaned on Manning, Vick tried to scramble and they used McCoy and DJax, Miami was trying to use Bush to set up the pass, Pats mixed some run while trying to get Brady going (60% pass), etc.

Just not seeing it.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

So why is it that I seem to be the only one in Year 1 that's not getting this horrible play calling that prompted the concept of the workaround.

I keep hearing moving parts, etc, but that doesn't make sense. What is the practical probability of the "stars aligning" to where it's working nearly perfectly and believably while everyone else got 80% runs?

I wish I knew...maybe patch 2 did something "unadvertised" 'cause previous to that it was ALWAYS...

I'm about to feel that way with the generics.

Seeing 70-75% passes every game drove me nuts.

I can't say that generics OR team specifics are the "answer" (so far) for me...

As you can see from my posts, it really is a process of making the best educated guess as to what's going to yield the desired splits and then rolling the dice...

I've seen 50 / 50 out of the generics AND I've seen 85% run out of team specifics and I've also seen perfect splits from both categories as well as Legends...

I am now more stumped than ever, but I'm having great "luck" with the "mix and match"...

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I wish I knew...maybe patch 2 did something "unadvertised" 'cause previous to that it was ALWAYS...

A stealth change is always possible.

That said, you guys would see it, too, right? From what I can tell, most are still getting the bad playcalling with the team books in Year 1, with the issue disappearing, or at least diminishing, as the CC goes on?

That might go back to skill level - but that would mean I'm one of the few using custom All-Madden level sliders in the thread? Sounds...unlikely?

I know you're on custom All-Pro, and dfos. I believe rudyjuly is on custom All-Pro. Deuce? Anyone else?

JHey messaged me saying he was seeing the same thing - too much passing with the generic/legends - I know he used to use (and probably still does) one of Jarodd's sets as a base - all custom All-Madden

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

So why is it that I seem to be the only one in Year 1 that's not getting this horrible play calling that prompted the concept of the workaround.

I keep hearing moving parts, etc, but that doesn't make sense. What is the practical probability of the "stars aligning" to where it's working nearly perfectly and believably while everyone else got 80% runs?

I have no clue. I wouldn't really say my issue was with 80% runs, it was just the timing of the runs and how consistent the run calls would be. I don't know how many times in my first season teams would run on 3rd and 7's inside the 20 and just settle for FG's. I can only go off what I've experienced and can't say definitively that anything is going to happen similarly because of just how random things seem to be capable of being.

When I finish my current season, I'm going to go through and see what the play call splits have been for each of my seasons to see how it's been to get an idea of how things have been going.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I've been LOOKING for this horrible playing calling I've read so much about - and what I see is teams playing like they should.

I would think Ravens would have ran 80% of the time, especially once Rice broke on for 69 yards. Nope, just playing "Raven ball".

Broncos leaned on Manning, Vick tried to scramble and they used McCoy and DJax, Miami was trying to use Bush to set up the pass, Pats mixed some run while trying to get Brady going (60% pass), etc.

Just not seeing it.

Are you suggesting the Ravens should be running the ball 80% of the time? So far in 2012 the Ravens have run the ball 243 times and passed the ball 345 times plus been sacked 19 times. That's a 60/40 split for passing. Virtually every team in the NFL passes more than they run with the league average close to 60% right where the Ravens are. Seeing 70% isn't that abnormal. Seeing teams that run the vast majority of the time is far worse imo.

[KBLover]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Are you suggesting the Ravens should be running the ball 80% of the time? So far in 2012 the Ravens have run the ball 243 times and passed the ball 345 times plus been sacked 19 times. That's a 60/40 split for passing. Virtually every team in the NFL passes more than they run with the league average close to 60% right where the Ravens are. Seeing 70% isn't that abnormal. Seeing teams that run the vast majority of the time is far worse imo.

Uh..no. I'm well aware of the Ravens run/pass split.

I'm saying they played Raven-style football (as in, how the team is built - it is still driven through Rice, and still needs that defense to work - Flacco is still woefully inconsistent). Lean on Rice and the defense, and keeping Flacco clean and in rhythm - and not taking too many risks.

League average is 56.5% pass as of last week's games - I know that.

70% is a long way from 56, a long way from most teams passing % (only team's close is Oakland and Saints at near 65%). Let alone anything over 70%. Like the Eagles throwing literally 90% of the time in one game (and it was close, not like they had to throw or else) and it wasn't even working. Vick had a low % and the Eagles no ball control...and that's with McCoy playing.