The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning in 2021

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  • kjcheezhead
    MVP
    • May 2009
    • 3118

    #271
    Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

    Originally posted by mattjames2010
    LOL then maybe put out a football game that is good enough that you don't have to do it yearly? There are far more costly games that completely fail that AAA have tried over the years, sports games are at least known.

    Again, 2K is a recognizable name. They would be fine. What they want is the likeness of NFL teams/players, which they could still get with their own creation - again, this isn't 1999, they can put out creation kits that could make their game look exactly like the NFL.

    Doesn’t matter. 2k has NFL rights now and a game is on the way.

    Funny, I’ve heard the customization argument while following APF, Backbreaker and Joe Montana. The only 3 attempts in almost 20 years and none would dare allow NFL customization. All were financial failures. The NFL has a great law team and is famously very protective of its brand.


    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Comment

    • King Gro23
      MVP
      • Jan 2008
      • 2548

      #272
      Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

      This is how I see 2k flourishing. This is my very high standard speculative list of game ideas..

      Non-simulation I'm assuming is pretty much using current player likeness and the nfl schedule for the calendar year. Ect ect

      If they are able to make an 11-11 game.

      I imagine a hybrid of All Pro football
      - legends included
      - a robust and very deep badge/ability system (Bronze- hall of fame )
      - MYTEAM ( create your team of legends with ability to use nfl logos and jerseys.. stadiums?? Rather than created generics

      So now you have a card(unlockable) player draft team builder.

      2k is HUGE into Historic teams look at the NBA 2k library

      So you have matchups like 04 randy moss going up against Atlanta Prime time deion sanders with Indy peyton manning..

      So many legendary players and era's.

      You hopefully should be able to use NFL history and fan apparel for in game immersion.

      Online my team matchups kinda like diamond dynasty and MUT & MyTeam


      Then there is the beast of MY player!! Where they could have you go through a very deep robust story mode of building your character up in Hope's to make it to the NFL
      Where you have mini games, camps' combines and play a career in an APF style universe

      With a spin off like MyCamp (ThePARK)
      Where a bunch of other footballers have their players and can decorate them. Give tattoos, run 7-7 or 5-5 pick up games in a football mega park center

      Even have weight room for you to build up your guys athleticism.. badge grinding for Mossed badge or hitting the weight room for a edge power rusher..

      As football fans it would be similar to nba 2k..

      I can only dream they come up with something like this.
      Maybe even sprinkle in first person football.

      2k has so many tools to make a mega game experience for football whether they incorporated it in 2004,2008 or other games are currently flourishing off of NON sim concepts..

      Even a play now with the 1998 packers vs the 2001 Buccaneers would be amazing.

      Uniforms and stadiums respective for their times..

      One can hope!!!!

      2K football we have prayed for you!

      Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app
      Catch Madden 15/ NBA 2k15 Footage on my Twitch Channel
      TopShotGwaup15
      http://www.twitch.tv/topshotgwaup15

      Suscribe on Youtube
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      Gleezybaby43

      Comment

      • ggsimmonds
        Hall Of Fame
        • Jan 2009
        • 11235

        #273
        Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

        Originally posted by mattjames2010
        LOL then maybe put out a football game that is good enough that you don't have to do it yearly? There are far more costly games that completely fail that AAA have tried over the years, sports games are at least known.

        Again, 2K is a recognizable name. They would be fine. What they want is the likeness of NFL teams/players, which they could still get with their own creation - again, this isn't 1999, they can put out creation kits that could make their game look exactly like the NFL.
        I think you are severely underestimating the importance of brand.

        A game with no NFL, NCAA, or even XFL licensing will not sell well.

        The casual consumer (which is the majority of consumers) are just going to see that the game is called "American Football 2k20" and think it is a cheap knockoff and pass.

        Making the game highly customizeable would only appeal to a small number of users and would not be enough to bring sales figures up.

        Check the sales figures for All Pro Football 2k8. And that was with licensed NFL legends.

        Aside from that, lets say the ability for the user to customize teams would be enough to reasonably expect worthwhile sales, they still will not make a game whose success is so closely tied to something that opens them up for a lawsuit.

        It is just not worth making a AAA sports title without any kind of licensing.

        Comment

        • King Gro23
          MVP
          • Jan 2008
          • 2548

          #274
          Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

          Aim big! Let's get Tony Romo! Heck I'll listen to joe buck too as long as its 2k gameplay LOL
          Originally posted by Blzer
          Terry McGovern (Dan Stevens) is 77 years old now, going on 78. He sounded dreadful in Axis Football 2018. It could be because of the way the developers went about putting him in, but he's definitely slowing. He didn't even sound great in APF 2K8 (very whiny and nasally, and that was only three years after 2K5).

          I love them and want the golden years back myself, but unless we can rekindle them, I'm not so sure that's what I want. We'll see, though.

          I don't know how old Jay Styne (Peter O'Keefe) is, but I'm guessing he is younger. He is still involved with NBA 2K.

          I'm with you, but again it's gotta be done correctly.
          Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app
          Catch Madden 15/ NBA 2k15 Footage on my Twitch Channel
          TopShotGwaup15
          http://www.twitch.tv/topshotgwaup15

          Suscribe on Youtube
          https://www.youtube.com/user/GleezyBaby43
          Gleezybaby43

          Comment

          • Madden08PCgmr
            MVP
            • Feb 2017
            • 2441

            #275
            Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

            [Rock voice]

            "FINALLY!!..."
            You want free speech?
            Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

            Comment

            • Madden08PCgmr
              MVP
              • Feb 2017
              • 2441

              #276
              Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

              Originally posted by King Gro23
              Even a play now with the 1998 packers vs the 2001 Buccaneers would be amazing.
              That's what I'm hoping for.

              I'm curious if they can negotiate something with retired players? Put the money towards health care, or their pensions. (.. probably the ultimate wish upon a star there)

              Or learn something from the O'bannon/Jim Brown cases and package retro seasons by being creative and not using anything remotely like the players true likenesses. If its customizable, its already proven the community will do all the heavy lifting.

              .. or who knows? Perhaps this is a move against MUT, and 2k Sports will hit EA where it would hurt them the most.
              You want free speech?
              Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

              Comment

              • GisherJohn24
                MVP
                • Aug 2008
                • 4596

                #277
                Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

                Originally posted by King Gro23
                This is how I see 2k flourishing. This is my very high standard speculative list of game ideas..

                Non-simulation I'm assuming is pretty much using current player likeness and the nfl schedule for the calendar year. Ect ect

                If they are able to make an 11-11 game.

                I imagine a hybrid of All Pro football
                - legends included
                - a robust and very deep badge/ability system (Bronze- hall of fame )
                - MYTEAM ( create your team of legends with ability to use nfl logos and jerseys.. stadiums?? Rather than created generics

                So now you have a card(unlockable) player draft team builder.

                2k is HUGE into Historic teams look at the NBA 2k library

                So you have matchups like 04 randy moss going up against Atlanta Prime time deion sanders with Indy peyton manning..

                So many legendary players and era's.

                You hopefully should be able to use NFL history and fan apparel for in game immersion.

                Online my team matchups kinda like diamond dynasty and MUT & MyTeam


                Then there is the beast of MY player!! Where they could have you go through a very deep robust story mode of building your character up in Hope's to make it to the NFL
                Where you have mini games, camps' combines and play a career in an APF style universe

                With a spin off like MyCamp (ThePARK)
                Where a bunch of other footballers have their players and can decorate them. Give tattoos, run 7-7 or 5-5 pick up games in a football mega park center

                Even have weight room for you to build up your guys athleticism.. badge grinding for Mossed badge or hitting the weight room for a edge power rusher..

                As football fans it would be similar to nba 2k..

                I can only dream they come up with something like this.
                Maybe even sprinkle in first person football.

                2k has so many tools to make a mega game experience for football whether they incorporated it in 2004,2008 or other games are currently flourishing off of NON sim concepts..

                Even a play now with the 1998 packers vs the 2001 Buccaneers would be amazing.

                Uniforms and stadiums respective for their times..

                One can hope!!!!

                2K football we have prayed for you!

                Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app


                It’s going to take the nfl to make that happen, this is pretty much dependent how much freedom they will give 2K . I just hope this one year excitement isn’t ruined by another announcement of an exclusive licensing agreement. But if it was , I’d be so happy if they gave it to 2K. NFL has to recognize people want this change and fed up

                Comment

                • Greenblood60
                  Rookie
                  • May 2014
                  • 132

                  #278
                  Re: NFL 2K Coming Back in 2021!!

                  Originally posted by TecmoZack
                  Was All-Pro Football considered "non-sim" ?
                  Well,first,there really isn’t a definition of “sim.” A lot people would laugh at the notion of Madden being sim, but Madden simulates NFL football by having real players, teams, and current rosters. If 2k’s game is centered around online play and play now games, has current and past NFL players, but none of the players ( past or currently playing in the NFL ) are on their respective teams, even if the gameplay is the most realistic gameplay we ever seen, would that make it an NFL simulation? My answer would be no.

                  Comment

                  • mattjames2010
                    Rookie
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 85

                    #279
                    Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

                    Originally posted by kjcheezhead
                    Doesn’t matter. 2k has NFL rights now and a game is on the way.

                    Funny, I’ve heard the customization argument while following APF, Backbreaker and Joe Montana. The only 3 attempts in almost 20 years and none would dare allow NFL customization. All were financial failures. The NFL has a great law team and is famously very protective of its brand.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                    The NFL could do nothing about consumers modding in NFL likeness. editing rosters, etc.

                    All-Pro Football lacked season simulation, Backbreaker wasn't any good, not sure what Joe Montana is? That mobile game? I mean, you can kinda see why these things failed.

                    Comment

                    • mattjames2010
                      Rookie
                      • Feb 2012
                      • 85

                      #280
                      Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

                      Originally posted by ggsimmonds
                      I think you are severely underestimating the importance of brand.

                      A game with no NFL, NCAA, or even XFL licensing will not sell well.

                      The casual consumer (which is the majority of consumers) are just going to see that the game is called "American Football 2k20" and think it is a cheap knockoff and pass.

                      Making the game highly customizeable would only appeal to a small number of users and would not be enough to bring sales figures up.

                      Check the sales figures for All Pro Football 2k8. And that was with licensed NFL legends.

                      Aside from that, lets say the ability for the user to customize teams would be enough to reasonably expect worthwhile sales, they still will not make a game whose success is so closely tied to something that opens them up for a lawsuit.

                      It is just not worth making a AAA sports title without any kind of licensing.
                      The "casual consumer"? You haven't seen any company market a full simulation football game outside of EA since 2005. You have no idea how it's going to go down lol Your "average consumer" is not just watching TV and seeing a 20 second commercial anymore. Your "average consumer" watches livestreams, sees gameplay trailers, gets accessible alpha builds on Steam. This isn't the 00s anymore, consumers are more informed than ever and a company like 2K has enough name recognition to not fall into "this is just a cheap knockoff". It's just silly to think you NEED NFL backing to survive.

                      Comment

                      • onegroove7
                        Rookie
                        • Dec 2019
                        • 139

                        #281
                        Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

                        2K should make their game as realistic as possible and when EA files a lawsuit, their defense will be that a video game is always "arcade". These lines seem pretty blurry to me.

                        As far as I'm concerned, EA doesn't offer simulation football anyway. How great would it be if it all came down to a judge trying to decide what "simulation football" is?

                        Comment

                        • Hooe
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 21554

                          #282
                          Re: NFL 2K Coming Back in 2021!!

                          Originally posted by Greenblood60
                          Well,first,there really isn’t a definition of “sim.”
                          I have to imagine the lawyers involved have legally codified what "simulation football game" means in some capacity. Not a lawyer myself, obviously, but I assume the exclusivity portion of the contract would be unenforceable without this important detail being very explicitly spelled out for the parties involved; just from this topic alone we see how much potential there is for different interpretations.

                          Whatever the limitations are, we'll find out whenever 2K reveals their first NFL game under this new arrangement.

                          Comment

                          • Hooe
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 21554

                            #283
                            Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

                            Originally posted by mattjames2010
                            The NFL could do nothing about consumers modding in NFL likeness. editing rosters, etc.
                            Correction: the NFL absolutely can shut down mods via cease-and-desist letters if whatever mods got enough public attention to where the league felt like such an action was appropriate to protect their intellectual property rights. If the modders continued work and distribution of the mod after the C&D gets issued, then lawsuits start happening.

                            How companies handle this varies. Nintendo and The Pokémon Company quite frequently slap down Pokémon mods of other games via C&D's for infringing on the companies' intellectual property rights. On the flip side, SEGA historically encourages the modding scene around Sonic The Hedgehog, to the point where several Sonic games officially released by SEGA originated as mods (most famously Sonic Mania, but also Sonic 2 and Sonic CD on mobile).

                            Given how much of a stick in the mud we know the NFL to be, I have to imagine they'd behave more like Nintendo in this case.

                            Comment

                            • JayhawkerStL
                              Banned
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 3644

                              #284
                              Re: NFL 2K Coming Back in 2021!!

                              Originally posted by Rayzaa
                              The first year yes. But the exclusive ends in 2021 so hopefully the NFL doesn't renew an exclusive to EA and let both make a game.
                              Madden has had so many issues that the NFL even sees. Hopefully the NFL players complaining about it had something to do with this.
                              It's ridiculous that some issues that have been in the game for years still exist.
                              This is absolutely not true. There is not a single reason for the NFL to unhappy with EA. It is a top 5 selling game year in and year out.

                              The NFL may decide to go with competing games, but I doubt it. They may decide to give the exclusive to 2K this time. It also may not matter.

                              The costs of making and licensing sports games have grown to the point that it is nearly impossible for two games to co-exist for one sport. I think social media plays a part, as that seems to drive gamers to choose the winner or loser, instead of the game they like. The losing game was never crushed so hard as it is these days.

                              Also, I think the definition of simulation that makes the most sense in this context, is game based on real teams and players playing the real-life schedule. That is the holy grail of a sports game now. Without it, you can be a better game than Madden, but still not sell well enough to get a second game, like 2K8.

                              That is what EA is protecting from 2K. I don't think the number of players on the field, or even the rules will be a factor. There is a massive population of fans that want to sit down and play their favorite teams' season or want to play lots of seasons with lots of teams. These guys may not care about realism or simulation quality, but they want a game for the current season.

                              All that seems to have happened is that 2K wants to give APF another shot, but would like to use licensing. If I'm EA, I'm drawing the line at allowing another game to have NFL seasons and franchise play.
                              Last edited by JayhawkerStL; 03-12-2020, 12:20 AM.

                              Comment

                              • JHamilton9
                                '94 World Series MVP
                                • May 2014
                                • 641

                                #285
                                Re: The NFL and 2K Are Back Together, 'Non-Simulation' Games Will Release Beginning i

                                I'm also wondering if 2K would dig deep into the NFL for historic teams. I'm talking about the Providence Steamrollers with their huskie mascot, the Frankford Yellow Jackets, the Canton Bulldogs, etc.

                                I don't know how that would play out for the casual gamer.

                                Comment

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