Official CBA Thread

[Hooe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

When you are an employee, you cant tell your boss.
I want to see your profits.. Its really ridiculous to me..
They want to give benefits to the older players, set
a rookie cap and still pay veterans handsomely..

These guys are not curing cancer, saving life's or
doing anything important.. I love football, but I
work for a living.. Millionaires like Jerry Jones made
their money through business, they are Millionaires
for a reason.. 70% of the Players in the NFL would
only have three career options if they were not playing
football..

Bouncing, Construction, or selling drugs.. Or all 3

The NFLPA itself is not an employee of the NFL. The two entities are partners in the business of professional football, with the NFLPA representing the interests of players insofar as the NFL is concerned. Hence the whole "collective bargaining" process. The NFLPA most definitely has a legitimate interest in knowing how much profit the NFL is enjoying in the process of doing business dealings with them, and in turn acting in the best interests of the players.

To the rest of your post: on the flipside of the coin, where would the NFL be without the players that play the game of football? I fully agree that there are far more important problems in the world, but this whole fiasco is absolutely not something one can wholly pin on one side or the other. Both the owners and the players knew what was at stake, and they both took actions and made decisions which led us to this point.

We can only hope at this point that the damage they cause the game we enjoy watching each Sunday in the fall is minimal.

[Hooe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Another thing that bugs me - this isn't targeted at you, Adriano, but a comment in your post that many people say prompted this soapbox moment - is the notion that the players "play a game" for a living. No, they don't. That's what we see on Sundays, but they have to put in a tremendous amount of work to get to where they are, be it gym workouts to prime their physical condition, countless hours of film study to perfect their mental preparation for their opposition, and days upon days of practice to perfect their technique and chemistry with their teammates.

These guys are working and working hard for their money. The nature of their work is very different from the nature of a desk job that you or I may have, but they don't just "play a game" for a living.

/rant

[adriano]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Another thing that bugs me - this isn't targeted at you, Adriano, but a comment in your post that many people say prompted this soapbox moment - is the notion that the players "play a game" for a living. No, they don't. That's what we see on Sundays, but they have to put in a tremendous amount of work to get to where they are, be it gym workouts to prime their physical condition, countless hours of film study to perfect their mental preparation for their opposition, and days upon days of practice to perfect their technique and chemistry with their teammates.

These guys are working and working hard for their money. The nature of their work is very different from the nature of a desk job that you or I may have, but they don't just "play a game" for a living.

/rant

No offense taken..

[adriano]

Re: Official CBA Thread

To the rest of your post: on the flipside of the coin, where would the NFL be without the players that play the game of football? I fully agree that there are far more important problems in the world, but this whole fiasco is absolutely not something one can wholly pin on one side or the other. Both the owners and the players knew what was at stake, and they both took actions and made decisions which led us to this point.

I respect your opinion, I just have a strong one on
this subject

NFL = Hooters Corporation
NFL Players = Hooter Girls..

Where would Hooters be without the hot girls..?
Yes they need each other, but they are still an
employee of Hooters..


I understand you are on the side of the players.
I love football, but I am tired of overpaid Athletes.
30 Mil Guaranteed for JaWalrus? Haynesworth?

I hated the EA exclusive deal, but I accept it as
business.. NFL is a business and the players are
employees..

The NFL is great because, it never lets players
become larger than the game. They lose Tom Brady
in the first game of 09.. One of their marque players,
and still have great year.

The NBA made this mistake with Jordan.. Jordan
was so over marketed. When he retired there was
a HUGE void that was not filled for years..

Kobe versus LeBron.. What ever happened to
the Lakers versus the Heat..

[TexasBorn1]

Re: Official CBA Thread

I have done a lot of reading on the issue and wow, the NFLPA is really making it hard to side with them

Looking at the NFL's final statement says a lot, they made concessions on revenue, the rookie cap, current and ex-player safety/health care, practice schedules and the schedule itself. In short, they compromised on everything. De Smith's statement pretty much said they de-certified because the NFL didn't give them 100% transparency and 50% of the revenue (basically ownership didn't give them what they wanted so they are taking their ball and are going home).

The NFLPA should have come to the table willing to give something back, but instead they said screw it and figured they'd get a better deal in the courts from union-friendly Judge Doty than they could working towards it.

The union is the biggest reason we don't have a CBA right now. I know its their job to look out for the players, but right now they look SILLY. The NFL even offered the players to have an independent auditor (chosen by the two sides) study the financial statements they have been asking for. The independent auditor would have studied the statements, then reported what he found back to them. Just taking the Owners to court to put this out in public and paint them all as bad guys. This is one situation where I hope the NFLPA loses. They clearly never had any intention of negotiating in good faith

[Hooe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

I respect your opinion, I just have a strong one on
this subject

NFL = Hooters Corporation
NFL Players = Hooter Girls..

Where would Hooters be without the hot girls..?
Yes they need each other, but they are still an
employee of Hooters..

I understand you are on the side of the players.
I love football, but I am tired of overpaid Athletes.
30 Mil Guaranteed for JaWalrus? Haynesworth?

I hated the EA exclusive deal, but I accept it as
business.. NFL is a business and the players are
employees..

The NFL is great because, it never lets players
become larger than the game. They lose Tom Brady
in the first game of 09.. One of their marque players,
and still have great year.

The NBA made this mistake with Jordan.. Jordan
was so over marketed. When he retired there was
a HUGE void that was not filled for years..

Kobe versus LeBron.. What ever happened to
the Lakers versus the Heat..

The Hooters girls analogy doesn't really work. People don't go to Hooters just to socialize with these women; it's a restaurant chain, and could just as easily get by without its gimmick by selling food alone with changes to how each restaurant operates. The only reason people go to NFL games or watch NFL television shows is to watch the players play; the NFL can't exist without the best football players playing football against each other. The players directly and rightly share in the success of the league and, again, have an interest in knowing how much money the NFL makes.

It's hard for me to have sympathy for the NFL owners after the Rick Reilly story came out detailing how among them they own private golf courses, "emergency yachts", and secondary houses they never have stepped foot in. That doesn't indicate "hurting for money", which is the biggest sticking point right now.

On one hand I agree with what the NFLPA is arguing; why should they have to give back money if there is no evidence that the NFL owners need it? Thus their resistance to any deal. On the other hand, if they never were going to accept a deal in the first place, they should have just decertified last week and saved everyone a lot of time and effort.

The NBA is an entirely different animal. The reason the league is where it is today, and I mean that in both a good and bad way, is largely because of Michael Jordan. That league is a whole 'nother can of worms, however, and I agree it should be more about the teams than the players. At the same time, the owners can't be allowed to rob the players blind.

I have done a lot of reading on the issue and wow, the NFLPA is really making it hard to side with them

Looking at the NFL's final statement says a lot, they made concessions on revenue, the rookie cap, current and ex-player safety/health care, practice schedules and the schedule itself. In short, they compromised on everything. De Smith's statement pretty much said they de-certified because the NFL didn't give them 100% transparency and 50% of the revenue (basically ownership didn't give them what they wanted so they are taking their ball and are going home).

The NFLPA should have come to the table willing to give something back, but instead they said screw it and figured they'd get a better deal in the courts from union-friendly Judge Doty than they could working towards it.

The union is the biggest reason we don't have a CBA right now. I know its their job to look out for the players, but right now they look SILLY. The NFL even offered the players to have an independent auditor (chosen by the two sides) study the financial statements they have been asking for. The independent auditor would have studied the statements, then reported what he found back to them. Just taking the Owners to court to put this out in public and paint them all as bad guys. This is one situation where I hope the NFLPA loses. They clearly never had any intention of negotiating in good faith

Both sides are the reason we're where we are right now. Yes, the players have wasted our time with this apparent facade of a negotiation. That said, the owners aren't blameless by any means. They could have not voted to opt out of the last CBA in the first place; it was not due to expire this year until they expedited that process. They could have offered financial transparency from the get-go (i.e. as soon as they opted out of the last CBA one or two years ago, provide DeMaurice Smith & co with the data they wanted; they've been asking for it for years). They could have made less ridiculous demands from which to scale back from; they're still coming out significantly ahead in this negotiation (looking at the final proposal) due to the ridiculous position from which they started.

The players, according to their various outlets, haven't asked for anything more than what they got from the last CBA, and they haven't seen any sufficient evidence as to why they should budge from that position; that is, they haven't seen any hard evidence from the NFL that the NFL needs to receive more of the revenue pie than what they were previously getting. The owners, for whatever reason, were less than forthcoming with that financial information, information which the union has been requesting for YEARS, thus the players' reluctance to negotiate or compromise on smaller issues under any circumstance. This is clearly a big sticking point to them, be it right or wrong.

It does ultimately suck for us, the fans, but both sides are responsible, neither one more than the other.

[adriano]

Re: Official CBA Thread

It does ultimately suck for us, the fans, but both sides are responsible, neither one more than the other.

Well there is one thing we can agree on.. I really
don't care if they strike.. I am tired of it..

[SPTO]

Re: Official CBA Thread

I have a feeling this could be a long and drawn out process. Will it be long enough to cost them regular season games? I'm not sure but man, is the draft going to have this hanging over everyone's head.

Here's the real tough part for those who will be drafted and if there's time lost in the season. They'll be in no-man's land. They're not pros but they're not college eligible anymore. I don't think they can even go to another league really either.

As for the current players and the owners well, both sides have a lot of blame to share in all this but i put more blame on the owners. The players aren't asking for the moon here and I think they're well within their rights to look at the books since the league is trying to make them give back a billion dollars. No one in their mind is gonna go and say "OK I trust you here's a billion dollars that should be ours" without at least seeing the books first.

The next step now is the anti-trust lawsuit with Manning, Brees and Brady representing the players. This is going to be huge as the NFL doesn't want the anti-trust issue brought up AT ALL. it may even bring about congressional hearings.

Oh and before anyone says the government shouldn't waste its time on that if it gets that far well anti-trust has been in the domain of the government since Teddy Roosevelt went trust busting at the turn of the 20th century.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Yeah i hate the "they play a game for a living" argument, no they don't. Sure its fun to them, but they put their bodies on the line every Sunday, hours of work in each day, plenty of late nights watching film, they don't get to see their family as much as they would want to, etc

While the owners basically just do some office work and shake hands with people

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Official CBA Thread

While the owners basically just do some office work and shake hands with people

Their job is not as simple as that either.

We need to stop with the oversimplifying of these things. The players are not "just playing a game". Both sides don't need to just "grow up and get something done."

I mean, these battles are happening because its serious, big-time ****. Not small potatoes.

[greenegt]

Re: Official CBA Thread

I'm curious to see what the union proposals looked like.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Official CBA Thread

I'm curious to see what the union proposals looked like.

Who knows, i'm not totally buying what the NFL said either cause at this point both sides were just trying to buy good publicity

[Hooe]

Re: Official CBA Thread

The players have filed a motion for what PFT is calling a "preliminary injunction". If upheld, NFL business (i.e. free agency) will be forced to resume as soon as next Friday at midnight, likely under the temporary terms of either the previous CBA or the final offer made by the NFL, not sure which.

Basically the players are challenging the NFL's imposed lockout right now. This step was not unexpected, and it's anticipated that the courts will rule in their favor. If the motion fails, the players remain "locked out", and nothing meaningful in the NFL will happen (with the exception of the NFL Draft) until the situation is resolved in the courts.

[N51_rob]

Re: Official CBA Thread

Both sides should be ashamed that it has gone to this. I'm behind the players in a lot or regards, and I understand them wanting to see why the owners needed another billion off the top, but this is a joke.

[aholbert32]

Re: Official CBA Thread

I love the "they just play a game" and "they are making millions!" comments.

They arent employees...this is a partnership. Fans dont come to games to watch the owners but without the owners there isnt a place for the players to play. I dont give a **** about any other concessions the owners made. I dont care if they took the 18 game season of the table (which was BS anyway) or offered to add more money to the pension. The bottom line is if you are asking for more money back...you should show why you need that money.

With that said, I'm 99% we wont miss a game. All we will miss is FA and NFL FA is the least exciting of all the major sports. The draft is still happening and I think by August they will have a deal.