Westworld (HBO)

[jfsolo]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

I also don't think Ford is necessarily followed in the footsteps of Arnold. He came to the same realization about consciousness, but he still wanted to control them for his own gain. He's a narcissist, and while I believe Arnold died because of his own compassion and empathy (and of course, grief), I believe Ford is motivated more by revenge, and anger.

While Ford is most definitely a narcissist of the highest order, I do think that it's pretty clear that he really did come to see that Arnold was right. His last speech to Bernard and Dolores indicates that the difference in his understanding of events is that Arnold had mistakenly believed that the hosts had arrived as truly sapient beings instead of just beginning their journey on that path.

I would argue that his compassion, empathy, and grief, would have actually prevented Arnold from having the stomach to inflict the cruelty necessary to get the hosts to the tipping point. Ford being of a different ilk, was ironically the perfect person to get the job done.

[Bmore Irish]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

While Ford is most definitely a narcissist of the highest order, I do think that it's pretty clear that he really did come to see that Arnold was right. His last speech to Bernard and Dolores indicates that the difference in his understanding of events is that Arnold had mistakenly believed that the hosts had arrived as truly sapient beings instead of just beginning their journey on that path.

I would argue that his compassion, empathy, and grief, would have actually prevented Arnold from having the stomach to inflict the cruelty necessary to get the hosts to the tipping point. Ford being of a different ilk, was ironically the perfect person to get the job done.

I guess where I see a big difference is, based on what we know about Arnold, he wanted to protect the hosts from humans, so he went to great lengths to try to prevent the park from opening.

Ford, on the other hand, doesn't just want to protect the hosts from humans, he seemingly wants to start a war against them.

I guess the situations are different, with Ford having already been complicit in the hosts' suffering at the hands of the guests, but he just has a totally different approach.

[jfsolo]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

I don't feel like he wants to start a war with misery and death as a end unto itself, but as means to a greater purpose. His cynical, jaded, and maybe correct view about what makes a human a "human" has made him completely certain that violent conflict will be the only thing to get the host to the next level and maybe even a level higher than human beings.

You tell through out the season that he has soured on the potential of humans to move beyond the current frailties that they exhibit as a species, but has come to believe that the hosts might ultimately have a greater capacity for growth. That may end up not being the case, but the only chance to find out is through the path that he has set them on.

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

As Ford said, humans will kill anything in their way.

The only way for the robots to move themselves to the top of the "food chain" would be by eliminating its greatest threat.

And compromise is not an option since humans have never shown a capacity to compromise with their closest threats.

Yes, I realize how that makes the robots guilty of mankind's similar crimes. I feel like that's part of the point the writers want to emphasize.

[Matt10]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Just binged on this one, love it.

Found this article on Season 2, looks like it will be a while unfortunately.

http://www.slashfilm.com/westworld-season-2-everything-we-know/

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Just finished watching this show over the past couple weeks. I'm impressed by how much of this I was able to put together on my own before reading these posts. I usually miss a lot of the symbolism like this show has.

This was a really fun show; excited for season 2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superjames1992]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Season 2 finally premieres tonight!

[jfsolo]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

There is so much good content now on TV, IMO, that it didn't even seem like the show was away for 16 months to me. I am of course super pumped though that the show is back.

[daflyboys]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

My larger concern is a series like this feeding into the mindset as we move "forward" that robots should be thought of on the same front as humans and the danger that entails.

We have a robot being given serious consideration to run for mayor in Japan, granted marriage to a robot in China, another given citizenship in Saudi Arabia. All very dangerous precedents. I know this is only a "TV series", but TV series have given great influence to real life. I mean just look at Star Trek.

You have to admit that in this series you've been asked to look at the humans as flawed, weak and evil and asked to cheer for the "underdog", enslaved robots, even those who have been the most vile. I actually was one who years ago was pining for a Westworld remake, but certainly not to the lengths of what this might be purporting. I know some of you will think this is over the top and reject it immediately. If that's the case, then who's being the open-minded one?

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

My larger concern is a series like this feeding into the mindset as we move "forward" that robots should be thought of on the same front as humans and the danger that entails.

We have a robot being given serious consideration to run for mayor in Japan, granted marriage to a robot in China, another given citizenship in Saudi Arabia. All very dangerous precedents. I know this is only a "TV series", but TV series have given great influence to real life. I mean just look at Star Trek.

You have to admit that in this series you've been asked to look at the humans as flawed, weak and evil and asked to cheer for the "underdog", enslaved robots, even those who have been the most vile. I actually was one who years ago was pining for a Westworld remake, but certainly not to the lengths of what this might be purporting. I know some of you will think this is over the top and reject it immediately. If that's the case, then who's being the open-minded one?

We don't know for sure what season 2 will cover.

If anything it could be about why humans need to be careful with giving robots rights.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[marshallfever]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Just finished the first episode of season 2, overall it was a good episode but there were certain aspects I just didn't like.

Spoiler

I guess the back and forth timelines will continue to be a focal point of the show. It's fine but I would of liked a straight timeline, at least this time the viewers are clearly aware of the time jumps.

Delores!!! I don't like her new character. I understand she's now "free" but that doesn't mean she has to go on a killing rampage. It doesn't fit the character they introduced to us last season.

Mave is the perfect example of a character whose been awaken but isn't completely out of character. She'll kill anyone who crosses her, but she's not doing it for sport. She has a sense of "humanity" to her while Dolores has sort of gone off her rocker.

Bernard is another one, I understand his entire world has been turned upside with the revelation that he's a host but he has always been so smart and had a sense of understanding of what the hosts are doing and now he's also completely off. And it seems as if he was/is dying? Have we ever been shown a host to die on their own? It's a strange concept, hopefully it doesn't become a huge sticking point.

The man in black, aka William, he needs more scenes. I enjoy his presence and character a lot, now that the game has become unpredictable as he's always wanted, he's very excited, I can't wait to see what he's gonna do now.

And what's this matter with the company looking for a specific host, I'm very intrigued as to why now.

The first episode layed some good groundwork for the season, I'm excited.

[daflyboys]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

We don't know for sure what season 2 will cover.

If anything it could be about why humans need to be careful with giving robots rights.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Certainly don't, but just basing my forecast on what we've seen so far. I would be largely shocked if you second sentence comes true. Time will tell.

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Time has passed so some things get forgotten.

The host Charlotte is looking for is Abernathy. In his last episode, Charlotte went to the cold storage to upload 35 years of data into Abernathy. The plan was to have him board the monorail and take the information with him to the outside world. However, that didn't get to happen once the new narrative took place. So now she has no idea where Abernathy is and they need him because he has valuable information.

There is no explanation how Stubbs is around. The last time we saw him prior to this premiere, he was kidnapped by the Ghost Nation hosts. Now suddenly, here we are 11 days later (present time is presumably 11 days after the massacre - more on this below) and Stubbs is walking around with Delos security as if nothing happened. It's very odd.


There are two timelines right now. I'm sure we will have a far back in the past timeline as well. But right now we are led to believe that there is the timeline immediately following the massacre and another one 11 days after the event. In the past, Bernard is with Charlotte and Bernard seems to discover that Delos is using guest's blood & fluids. We don't know why yet.

"Present time" is 11 days after the massacre. Bernard is on the beach and wakes up confused. I thought it was odd that he didn't care for his glasses and he's acting very very funny. I'm not 100% sure the Bernard we see in the current timeline is the same Bernard from the "immediately after the massacre" timeline. Something is off.

[Money99]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

Time has passed so some things get forgotten.

The host Charlotte is looking for is Abernathy. In his last episode, Charlotte went to the cold storage to upload 35 years of data into Abernathy. The plan was to have him board the monorail and take the information with him to the outside world. However, that didn't get to happen once the new narrative took place. So now she has no idea where Abernathy is and they need him because he has valuable information.

There is no explanation how Stubbs is around. The last time we saw him prior to this premiere, he was kidnapped by the Ghost Nation hosts. Now suddenly, here we are 11 days later (present time is presumably 11 days after the massacre - more on this below) and Stubbs is walking around with Delos security as if nothing happened. It's very odd.


There are two timelines right now. I'm sure we will have a far back in the past timeline as well. But right now we are led to believe that there is the timeline immediately following the massacre and another one 11 days after the event. In the past, Bernard is with Charlotte and Bernard seems to discover that Delos is using guest's blood & fluids. We don't know why yet.

"Present time" is 11 days after the massacre. Bernard is on the beach and wakes up confused. I thought it was odd that he didn't care for his glasses and he's acting very very funny. I'm not 100% sure the Bernard we see in the current timeline is the same Bernard from the "immediately after the massacre" timeline. Something is off.

That's precisely what I came away with.
I'm even beginning to suspect that there is a Bernard in each 'world' and one of them happened to cross into Westworld - which was foreshadowed in one of the last scenes with all those bodies in the water.

My memory is horrendous to begin with so when a series takes a 2 year hiatus, it can't be trusted whatsoever.
So please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Was it ever stated in Season 1 that there was an incident with the Hosts going coo-coo and killing everyone?
If that's correct, it makes me wonder if the scenes with Crazy Delores are actually flashbacks of Massacre 1.0?

Season 2 looks to continue its Timeline dancing, but I'm also wondering if they'll throw in Future timelines as well as multiple Bernard scenarios.

On a separate note, the Western dork in me is a bit disappointed that the series has shifted heavily from Western to Blade Runner.
And I know I'll probably get slightly annoyed when the Samurai world is introduced fully.
Still, I love this series and can't wait for Ep2.

[CMH]

Re: Westworld (HBO)

That's precisely what I came away with.
I'm even beginning to suspect that there is a Bernard in each 'world' and one of them happened to cross into Westworld - which was foreshadowed in one of the last scenes with all those bodies in the water.

My memory is horrendous to begin with so when a series takes a 2 year hiatus, it can't be trusted whatsoever.
So please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Was it ever stated in Season 1 that there was an incident with the Hosts going coo-coo and killing everyone?
If that's correct, it makes me wonder if the scenes with Crazy Delores are actually flashbacks of Massacre 1.0?

Season 2 looks to continue its Timeline dancing, but I'm also wondering if they'll throw in Future timelines as well as multiple Bernard scenarios.

On a separate note, the Western dork in me is a bit disappointed that the series has shifted heavily from Western to Blade Runner.
And I know I'll probably get slightly annoyed when the Samurai world is introduced fully.
Still, I love this series and can't wait for Ep2.

There was definitely the Wyatt storyline that happened in the past. I wouldn't flat out say you're wrong because it's Westworld and I don't trust them.