CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

[Jr.]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

So a political operative would have to, at scale, find doctors that 1. would be willing to participate in this criminality and 2. be so ideological he/she is willing to risk their reputation and medical license for the cause. Not just a handful of doctors. Enough to massively over inflate the impact of the virus. All of this would have to be done with everyone covering their tracks at every step and no one ever saying a word to anyone outside of the conspiracy.


Does this seem likely?

Or.. a hospital could just make a policy that anyone showing symptoms of COVID be listed as a COVID patient so they get more money from the government.

I think if the numbers truly are inflated (I don't know if they are or aren't), it may have been an organic progression of hospitals being overly cautious in the beginning since this was an unknown virus. Then maybe they saw the additional funding, and thought "hey, let's keep doing this so we can continue to receive extra funding."

It doesn't have to be some wild government conspiracy for people to be corrupted.


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[NYJets]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Only mildly thread related but spent about 5 hours today in ER with a heart arrythmia. Pretty dejected because I had a procedure to cure this last year and up until now thought it worked. Now waiting on next steps but could be trying it again.

Good news is the timing was a lot better now than in April and May when hospitals here were getting overrun. Things seemed very calm there


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Going to have the same procedure i had last year in the beginning of August called an Ablation. Basically I was born with a 2nd electrical pathway in my heart that most of the time doesn't really matter, but once in awhile the heart will use the wrong pathway which confuses the heart and makes it have episodes with a sustained pulse over 200 bpm. Its called SVT. So in the procedure they make the arrythmia happen, see where the 2nd pathway is, and burn it. The risk, which is typically less than 1% is they burn both pathways, and then you would need a pacemaker. My 2 pathways are close together so my risk while still low is a little higher than 1%. So last time he was very conservative in how much he burned, this time he's going to be a little more aggressive.

Hopefully things are still pretty good in CT as far as Corona by then. Gonna need a covid test a few days before and gonna have to see what the visitor limitiations and protocols are by then because they are always changing.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Or.. a hospital could just make a policy that anyone showing symptoms of COVID be listed as a COVID patient so they get more money from the government.

I think if the numbers truly are inflated (I don't know if they are or aren't), it may have been an organic progression of hospitals being overly cautious in the beginning since this was an unknown virus. Then maybe they saw the additional funding, and thought "hey, let's keep doing this so we can continue to receive extra funding."

It doesn't have to be some wild government conspiracy for people to be corrupted.


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Even in downplaying it, you just described a massive nationwide fraud coordinated at the highest levels of hospital administration. With no memos leaked, no conversations recorded, no emails screenshot. Just random personal anecdotes.


Not even saying it's impossible but what's more likely? The above scenario or.... the virus is as bad as people are saying?







Occam's Razor applies here for me. I'll own it if it turns out I'm wrong.

[Jr.]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Even in downplaying it, you just described a massive nationwide fraud coordinated at the highest levels of hospital administration. With no memos leaked, no conversations recorded, no emails screenshot. Just random personal anecdotes.


Not even saying it's impossible but what's more likely? The above scenario or.... the virus is as bad as people are saying?







Occam's Razor applies here for me. I'll own it if it turns out I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to downplay it, and I don't believe it's true. Just saying it doesn't have to be some nationwide, coordinated effort for it to happen. When hospitals are run like businesses, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they act like one.

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[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

I'm not trying to downplay it, and I don't believe it's true. Just saying it doesn't have to be some nationwide, coordinated effort for it to happen. When hospitals are run like businesses, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they act like one.

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Yeah, downplay was a poor choice of words. My bad.

[NYJets]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

I think there's definitely inconsistencies and problems with the data but I doubt they are enough to change policy decisions and how the general public should be treating this.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

So a political operative would have to, at scale, find doctors that 1. would be willing to participate in this criminality and 2. be so ideological he/she is willing to risk their reputation and medical license for the cause. Not just a handful of doctors. Enough to massively over inflate the impact of the virus. All of this would have to be done with everyone covering their tracks at every step and no one ever saying a word to anyone outside of the conspiracy.


Does this seem likely?

Hospitals do not go committing insurance and Medicare fraud willy nilly. Does it happen? Absolutely.

For this to be a significant issue in reporting, thousands of doctors in hundreds of hospitals have to be doing with in coordination with accounting and hospital management.

Not an expert, but my wife is an appellate attorney for insurance defense. Her job includes exactly this kind of fraud and documentation. In discussing it with her, it’s just ridiculous when you consider the number people involved in all these decisions.

It’s one of those pieces of propaganda that makes sense until you think about it.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Hospitals do not go committing insurance and Medicare fraud willy nilly. Does it happen? Absolutely.

For this to be a significant issue in reporting, thousands of doctors in hundreds of hospitals have to be doing with in coordination with accounting and hospital management.

Not an expert, but my wife is an appellate attorney for insurance defense. Her job includes exactly this kind of fraud and documentation. In discussing it with her, it’s just ridiculous when you consider the number people involved in all these decisions.

It’s one of those pieces of propaganda that makes sense until you think about it.

I'm with you. Most of these conspiracies fall completely apart after like the 2nd follow up question. This is why I ask. Because they don't make sense to me.

[steelerfan]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Going to have the same procedure i had last year in the beginning of August called an Ablation. Basically I was born with a 2nd electrical pathway in my heart that most of the time doesn't really matter, but once in awhile the heart will use the wrong pathway which confuses the heart and makes it have episodes with a sustained pulse over 200 bpm. Its called SVT. So in the procedure they make the arrythmia happen, see where the 2nd pathway is, and burn it. The risk, which is typically less than 1% is they burn both pathways, and then you would need a pacemaker. My 2 pathways are close together so my risk while still low is a little higher than 1%. So last time he was very conservative in how much he burned, this time he's going to be a little more aggressive.



Hopefully things are still pretty good in CT as far as Corona by then. Gonna need a covid test a few days before and gonna have to see what the visitor limitiations and protocols are by then because they are always changing.

Good luck, man. I hope everything goes smoothly and that the procedure is a success. [emoji256]

[p_rushing]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Even in downplaying it, you just described a massive nationwide fraud coordinated at the highest levels of hospital administration. With no memos leaked, no conversations recorded, no emails screenshot. Just random personal anecdotes.


Not even saying it's impossible but what's more likely? The above scenario or.... the virus is as bad as people are saying?







Occam's Razor applies here for me. I'll own it if it turns out I'm wrong.

If you don't understand how insurance, hospitals, and government work then you won't understand why this is being done. There have already been videos from NYC showing patients be coded as having covid and yet never testing positive. The way insurance works is hospitals have certain billing codes that they agree to with insurance companies and if a doctor doesn't use the right code, the hospital doesn't get paid. It doesn't matter if it was covered or not, so the hospital finance department generally checks all of that before submitting the claim. They try to correct it and make the doctor change the diagnosis to the correct code so they get paid but they still miss some.

From a care standpoint, coding someone as having or suspected covid opens up additional covered treatments and the need for ICU coverage. Without a valid code, insurance companies will reject ICU stays because they will say you didn't need to be in the ICU and should have just had additional observation in a regular room or in the ER. Generally you are not responsible if the doctor puts you in the ICU and the insurance company says it wasn't required for the level of care needed, but the hospital is out of the money.

The medical examiner is over worked, so just labeling anyone who test positive with a quick test can cut the time and cost down a lot. So for anyone not dying in a hospital, it is easy to see why they would label it as covid and just move on.


Healthcare in general is a massive mess and borderline fraudulent. The administration controls what codes to use, the doctors go along because they get paid more for the covered codes versus not covered or wrong negotiated code to use with insurance companies.

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[p_rushing]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Hospitals do not go committing insurance and Medicare fraud willy nilly. Does it happen? Absolutely.



For this to be a significant issue in reporting, thousands of doctors in hundreds of hospitals have to be doing with in coordination with accounting and hospital management.



Not an expert, but my wife is an appellate attorney for insurance defense. Her job includes exactly this kind of fraud and documentation. In discussing it with her, it’s just ridiculous when you consider the number people involved in all these decisions.



It’s one of those pieces of propaganda that makes sense until you think about it.

It's done like this all the time already though. It's not fraud, but close to it, since the hospitals and insurance companies have certain codes that they will or will not pay. I had a hospital stay for 1 night where they put me in the ICU to really protect themselves incase something happened because a nurse wasn't available to check on me. Insurance company said they weren't paying because of level of care needed said just observation and the agreement was for this coding and level of care. Hospital tried to have me pay and I said go deal with your doctor and their coding issues.

When Medicare is paying more for covid cases, you will code them as covid or suspected covid if their symptoms are similar. Generally those Medicare patients aren't going to be paying their bills or are going on long term payment plans. So the hospital administration will make sure the doctors code it correctly for them to get paid the most money. So it's not out right fraud, but close to it.

It's also not that doctors or administrators are outright trying to increase the numbers, they don't really care. In order to get paid though, they do need to use the codes the insurance companies give them. If someone has flu symptoms, you code them as covid or suspected and additional treatments are covered and available instead of waiting for a test that may take who knows how long.

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[countryboy]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

Going to have the same procedure i had last year in the beginning of August called an Ablation. Basically I was born with a 2nd electrical pathway in my heart that most of the time doesn't really matter, but once in awhile the heart will use the wrong pathway which confuses the heart and makes it have episodes with a sustained pulse over 200 bpm. Its called SVT. So in the procedure they make the arrythmia happen, see where the 2nd pathway is, and burn it. The risk, which is typically less than 1% is they burn both pathways, and then you would need a pacemaker. My 2 pathways are close together so my risk while still low is a little higher than 1%. So last time he was very conservative in how much he burned, this time he's going to be a little more aggressive.

Hopefully things are still pretty good in CT as far as Corona by then. Gonna need a covid test a few days before and gonna have to see what the visitor limitiations and protocols are by then because they are always changing.

Good luck man. Prayers going up and out

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

It's done like this all the time already though. It's not fraud, but close to it, since the hospitals and insurance companies have certain codes that they will or will not pay. I had a hospital stay for 1 night where they put me in the ICU to really protect themselves incase something happened because a nurse wasn't available to check on me. Insurance company said they weren't paying because of level of care needed said just observation and the agreement was for this coding and level of care. Hospital tried to have me pay and I said go deal with your doctor and their coding issues.

When Medicare is paying more for covid cases, you will code them as covid or suspected covid if their symptoms are similar. Generally those Medicare patients aren't going to be paying their bills or are going on long term payment plans. So the hospital administration will make sure the doctors code it correctly for them to get paid the most money. So it's not out right fraud, but close to it.

It's also not that doctors or administrators are outright trying to increase the numbers, they don't really care. In order to get paid though, they do need to use the codes the insurance companies give them. If someone has flu symptoms, you code them as covid or suspected and additional treatments are covered and available instead of waiting for a test that may take who knows how long.

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I can't call it. This makes more sense than some of the more wilder conspiracies (folks assume a lot of competence from politicians to pull this off) but idk man..... these administrators and doctors and nurses would all have to be hanging out collecting checks knowing this isn't really that bad while the rest of the country sits in the house, the economy tanks and unemployment is at depression levels. With no one breaking ranks and whistleblowing.



I don't think much of people these days but this is a level of depravity I can't just assign to folks without something concrete.

[slickdtc]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

I'm not trying to downplay it, and I don't believe it's true. Just saying it doesn't have to be some nationwide, coordinated effort for it to happen. When hospitals are run like businesses, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they act like one.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Operation Sports mobile app

If you don't understand how insurance, hospitals, and government work then you won't understand why this is being done. There have already been videos from NYC showing patients be coded as having covid and yet never testing positive. The way insurance works is hospitals have certain billing codes that they agree to with insurance companies and if a doctor doesn't use the right code, the hospital doesn't get paid. It doesn't matter if it was covered or not, so the hospital finance department generally checks all of that before submitting the claim. They try to correct it and make the doctor change the diagnosis to the correct code so they get paid but they still miss some.

From a care standpoint, coding someone as having or suspected covid opens up additional covered treatments and the need for ICU coverage. Without a valid code, insurance companies will reject ICU stays because they will say you didn't need to be in the ICU and should have just had additional observation in a regular room or in the ER. Generally you are not responsible if the doctor puts you in the ICU and the insurance company says it wasn't required for the level of care needed, but the hospital is out of the money.

The medical examiner is over worked, so just labeling anyone who test positive with a quick test can cut the time and cost down a lot. So for anyone not dying in a hospital, it is easy to see why they would label it as covid and just move on.


Healthcare in general is a massive mess and borderline fraudulent. The administration controls what codes to use, the doctors go along because they get paid more for the covered codes versus not covered or wrong negotiated code to use with insurance companies.

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These two posts totally.

With the sudden onset of covid, I doubt there’s much oversight going on. Hit the button and send it, deal with the mess down the line.

I don’t think healthcare systems across the nation are working in concert to create a conspiracy, I think they’re really trying to stay afloat and get paid for their services as best they can.

We do have countryboy saying he was labeled as covid patient even after recovering from it, but then being put with general population. I think they want to label covid patients, even recovered, to make sure it’s known, but then that designation gets lumped in to new cases even when its not (and he’s not being treated as contagious).

Healthcare processes already borderline fraudulent like prushing said, add a ton of unknown and massive uptick in patients, and multiple failings at many levels add up to potentially larger numbers than what may be real.

I don’t think it’s a shadow government pulling the wool over our eyes. I think it’s as simple as this whole thing is a cluster****. That’s the only thing I can say 100% about this whole pandemic. Changing messages, leadership determined to get to their preferred conclusion, media preying on the uncertainty that’s out there. Why wouldn’t the numbers also not stand up to scrutiny? Follows the same path as everything else so far.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: CDC Officials Warn of Coronavirus Outbreaks in the United States.

I guess I just don't understand the inclination to jump to all these nefarious explanations when the simplest one (the virus really is that bad) covers most of the bases.


I could be wrong. Hell, I hope I am. It just doesn't make much sense to me.