M17 XP Slider Discussion

[Aestis]

Haven't seen a thread dedicated to this and feel it merits its own discussion.

I'm very curious to see how leagues are leaning. I'm philosophically of the belief that if everyone feels XP is a bit low, it's probably just right. I also believe some of the issues from M16 were problems from the narrow type of player that was generated in the draft classes and not a thing that could be fixed by XP sliders (e.g. in the case of CBs, with base sliders it was realistically impossible to develop any studs into 95 MCV guys... but if you cranked up XP sliders, there would be WAY too many 95 MCV guys). Luckily it seems as if M17 has either fixed or helped the player generation issue.

SO:

My initial thoughts are that progression feels much easier in M17. It's slightly tougher to supercharge a single player, but I'm not convinced they don't end up with more XP over the course of a single season. Meanwhile all your backups are getting XP. Huge net gain. The only position groups I'm leery of are:

• QB: Feels like it *might* be a tad high. Then again you are giving up an entire position group to develop this one guy, so perhaps it's fine. I'm leaning toward the 90-100% range.
• Offensive Line: WOW, the XP costs for blocking have skyrocketed exponentially. A 2nd round (IRL or actual 2nd round) Normal dev prospect *might* see a single blocking point upgraded over the course of his rookie season if you take some time to get AWR up to a respectable level first. Feels like a strong prospect coming out as an 85/81 might take a few entire seasons just to reach 87/84. Meanwhile pass rushers are not nearly as difficult to get to 90+ PMV, FMV, or BSH. So this is the main area I'm curious about pumping up the XP a lot... as in 200% and possibly even more.

One major caveat I'm concerned about with inflating OL XP is keeping in-game OL vs DL mechanics balanced. I'm making the assumption that the overall RBK & PBK league talent levels should be roughly equivalent to the overall PMV/FMV/BSH levels, but that may not necessarily be true this Madden. Perhaps the game is balanced such that 85 PBK matches up well enough with 92 PMV, for instance, and inflating XP so that 90-95 PBK is attainable for a few elite players throws things out of whack. Though I doubt that, since existing elite guys such as Joe Thomas are in the mid/high 90s in PBK & RBK.

Thoughts on XP sliders and OL progression in particular?

[ThatMichiganFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aestis

Haven't seen a thread dedicated to this and feel it merits its own discussion. I'm very curious to see how leagues are leaning. I'm philosophically of the belief that if everyone feels XP is a bit low, it's probably just right. I also believe some of the issues from M16 were problems from the narrow type of player that was generated in the draft classes and not a thing that could be fixed by XP sliders (e.g. in the case of CBs, with base sliders it was realistically impossible to develop any studs into 95 MCV guys... but if you cranked up XP sliders, there would be WAY too many 95 MCV guys). Luckily it seems as if M17 has either fixed or helped the player generation issue. SO: My initial thoughts are that progression feels much easier in M17. It's slightly tougher to supercharge a single player, but I'm not convinced they don't end up with more XP over the course of a single season. Meanwhile all your backups are getting XP. Huge net gain. The only position groups I'm leery of are: QB: Feels like it *might* be a tad high. Then again you are giving up an entire position group to develop this one guy, so perhaps it's fine. I'm leaning toward the 90-100% range. Offensive Line: WOW, the XP costs for blocking have skyrocketed exponentially. A 2nd round (IRL or actual 2nd round) Normal dev prospect *might* see a single blocking point upgraded over the course of his rookie season if you take some time to get AWR up to a respectable level first. Feels like a strong prospect coming out as an 85/81 might take a few entire seasons just to reach 87/84. Meanwhile pass rushers are not nearly as difficult to get to 90+ PMV, FMV, or BSH. So this is the main area I'm curious about pumping up the XP a lot... as in 200% and possibly even more. One major caveat I'm concerned about with inflating OL XP is keeping in-game OL vs DL mechanics balanced. I'm making the assumption that the overall RBK & PBK league talent levels should be roughly equivalent to the overall PMV/FMV/BSH levels, but that may not necessarily be true this Madden. Perhaps the game is balanced such that 85 PBK matches up well enough with 92 PMV, for instance, and inflating XP so that 90-95 PBK is attainable for a few elite players throws things out of whack. Though I doubt that, since existing elite guys such as Joe Thomas are in the mid/high 90s in PBK & RBK. Thoughts on XP sliders and OL progression in particular?

Nice thread. I didn't get a chance to dive into CFM and test these before my EA Access trial bugged out but I am interested in seeing what other people think about this. It sounds like O-lineman will need an XP boost (according to progression testing), just need to figure out how much of a boost they need.

[catcher_0_3]

I won't be able to really get into the game until next week, but I'm more interested in this than the gameplay sliders. Mostly because I can tweak gameplay throughout a CFM, but that XP needs to be good from the get go.

[Hushroom]

This is a great thread. Definitely interested to see what everyone finds once the game is released and testing has been done.

[tdawg3782]

I ran two 10 year test sims last year playing with the xp sliders to try to find some good balance. I'll start today and start running some more. I plan on doing as many as it takes to get a really good baseline. The way I do it is as follows:

-Use Preseason roster
-Set all positions to balanced in scheme to get the basic Ovr of players
-Write down how many players are 95-99,90-94,85-89, and 80-84 for each position and get a percentage
-Set XP for every 4 weeks
-Set XP Values (will start with default 100%)
-Sim 10 seasons and write down new data to compare to base data

I'll probably have my 1st sim done in a few hours or less.

[ThatMichiganFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by tdawg3782

I ran two 10 year test sims last year playing with the xp sliders to try to find some good balance. I'll start today and start running some more. I plan on doing as many as it takes to get a really good baseline. The way I do it is as follows: -Use Preseason roster -Set all positions to balanced in scheme to get the basic Ovr of players -Write down how many players are 95-99,90-94,85-89, and 80-84 for each position and get a percentage -Set XP for every 4 weeks -Set XP Values (will start with default 100%) -Sim 10 seasons and write down new data to compare to base data I'll probably have my 1st sim done in a few hours or less.

Fantastic. Looking forward to seeing your results.

[tdawg3782]

1st sim is in the books. I forgot how long it takes recordering the data lol. Anyways here we go:

Rules: 75 Man Preseason Roster/XP Sliders all at 100%/Progress set to Every 4 Weeks

How to read chart: Base is how many players were rated in each group and +10 Years is how many after simming 10 seasons. The % is just the % of players rated in each group to give you a visual that way. Total is the total amount of players rated 80+.

QB:100%

Spoiler

QB	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	3	4	11.54%	11.11%
90-94	3	3	11.54%	8.33%
85-89	7	7	26.92%	19.44%
80-84	13	22	50.00%	61.11%
Total	26	36	100.00%	100.00%

So we had 10 more players above 80 then the original rosters. Kind of deep on talent but then again the top end players matched up perfect. If we drop the % then I would imagine they would drop to. However if you want a little less talent at the QB position then that would be perfect. For me I will try 90% next.

HB:100%

Spoiler

HB	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
90-94	4	2	12.90%	8.70%
85-89	5	6	16.13%	26.09%
80-84	22	15	70.97%	65.22%
Total	31	23	100.00%	100.00%

This was one of the only positions to drop the total from the base. This isn't bad really. Personally I'd like a little more out of the position. I like how the base was set. I'm going to try 120% next.

FB:100%

Spoiler

FB	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
90-94	1	0	8.33%	0.00%
85-89	4	3	33.33%	23.08%
80-84	7	10	58.33%	76.92%
Total	12	13	100.00%	100.00%

FB isn't a strong position in Madden to start with. The position is fading out in the league for the most part. These numbers look consistent so I'm going to keep it at 100%. FYI the lone 90+ guy in the base roster was Marcell Reese who isn't really even a FB.

WR:100%

Spoiler

WR	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	2	0	3.92%	0.00%
90-94	13	2	25.49%	3.17%
85-89	14	12	27.45%	19.05%
80-84	22	49	43.14%	77.78%
Total	51	63	100.00%	100.00%

Here is were things get tough. 12 more players rated over 80 this time. Not crazy but a decent amount. But they are clumped mostly between 80-84. If we raise it we will probably see a few more top end players but may still have a clump at the bottom resulting in 80+ give or take WRs over 80. Catch-22 (no pun intended lol). I think I'll try 110% to see what happens.

TE:100%

Spoiler

TE	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	1	2	4.00%	6.45%
90-94	3	3	12.00%	9.68%
85-89	4	12	16.00%	38.71%
80-84	17	14	68.00%	45.16%
Total	25	31	100.00%	100.00%

This isn't bad. 7 more players rated over 80 then base. Lot more 85-89 guys but this wouldn't be a bad spot to keep it. I'm hesitant to lower things when I see the top end (90+) right where I like it but I think I'm going for 90% nest sim.

T:100%

Spoiler

T	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	3	0	6.98%	0.00%
90-94	4	4	9.30%	9.09%
85-89	12	10	27.91%	22.73%
80-84	24	30	55.81%	68.18%
Total	43	44	100.00%	100.00%

Pretty good we are just missing those couple beast tackles. This is honestly a really good result though. I'm going to do 110% next just to see what happens.

G:100%

Spoiler

G	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	1	0	3.45%	0.00%
90-94	3	0	10.34%	0.00%
85-89	9	3	31.03%	13.64%
80-84	16	19	55.17%	86.36%
Total	29	22	100.00%	100.00%

The guard position was pretty weak to start with and now they are even worse. This position needs help in my opinion. Think I'll go up to 130% for next sim.

C:100%

Spoiler

C	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
90-94	1	0	6.25%	0.00%
85-89	6	1	37.50%	7.14%
80-84	9	13	56.25%	92.86%
Total	16	14	100.00%	100.00%

Another kind of weak position to start with that got worse. Going to go with 130% for next sim like guard.

DE:100%

Spoiler

DE	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	1	3	3.23%	6.98%
90-94	9	3	29.03%	6.98%
85-89	15	15	48.39%	34.88%
80-84	6	22	19.35%	51.16%
Total	31	43	100.00%	100.00%

This was an odd position to start with. Lots of good talent with 48% of the players coming in the 85-89 range and 29% in the 90-94 range which was more the the 80-84 range. After the 10 year sim it balanced out a bit which is what I like to see. A few with 90+, some with 85-89, and the bulk 80-84. We have 12 more players above 80 then base but this seems good to me. Will leave at 100%

DT:100%

Spoiler

DT	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	1	0	4.17%	0.00%
90-94	5	3	20.83%	8.82%
85-89	4	5	16.67%	14.71%
80-84	14	26	58.33%	76.47%
Total	24	34	100.00%	100.00%

10 more players above 80 then base. This is where I get scared. I'd like to see at least 1 at 95+ but then we will start seeing a problem with depth being too good. If we raise the % we could have another 10 guys above 80 which seems excessive. Then again I don't know how touchy the XP sliders will be so who knows. Gonna leave at 100% for now.

OLB:100%

Spoiler

OLB	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	3	2	6.67%	3.39%
90-94	8	9	17.78%	15.25%
85-89	11	14	24.44%	23.73%
80-84	23	34	51.11%	57.63%
Total	45	59	100.00%	100.00%

OLB seemed like an over powered position compared to other positions at base. 11 guys 90+. This stayed pretty consistent. 14 more players 80+ then base but 85+ looks about the same. Depends on what you want. I will drop it to 90% because I'd like to see a little less talent overall.

MLB:100%

Spoiler

MLB	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	1	0	5.88%	0.00%
90-94	1	3	5.88%	11.54%
85-89	6	11	35.29%	42.31%
80-84	9	12	52.94%	46.15%
Total	17	26	100.00%	100.00%

I thought MLB was a little weak to start but it balanced out pretty good. 9 more players 80+ and no 95+ guy but I like this result. Keeping at 100%

CB:100%

Spoiler

CB	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	1	1	3.13%	3.57%
90-94	7	0	21.88%	0.00%
85-89	13	11	40.63%	39.29%
80-84	11	16	34.38%	57.14%
Total	32	28	100.00%	100.00%

Was surprised this one dropped. Think it needs some help for sure. Only 1 player 90+ isn't going to cut it especially since I want to up WR XP. Going to go with 120% next sim.

FS:100%

Spoiler

FS	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	2	0	7.41%	0.00%
90-94	5	0	18.52%	0.00%
85-89	5	17	18.52%	51.52%
80-84	15	16	55.56%	48.48%
Total	27	33	100.00%	100.00%

This was a really strange one. This position was loaded on the base roster. After sim we have 6 more players 80+ but none 90+. I think we have to up it but I'm just afraid of, like the DT situation, that depth will be a problem. I mean 33 players 80+ is enough for every team to start a 80+ FS. But I don't like having 0 elite guys. Will go with 110% next sim.

SS:100%

Spoiler

SS	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
90-94	2	4	12.50%	10.53%
85-89	6	16	37.50%	42.11%
80-84	8	18	50.00%	47.37%
Total	16	38	100.00%	100.00%

This one was crazy. Not much talent to start and then it blew up after the sim. 22 more players 80+ the base. That's insane. That's 6 more players then we originally had to start with. Anyways I think I have to drop this. Will go down to 90% for next sim.

K:100%

Spoiler

K	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
90-94	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
85-89	0	1	0.00%	11.11%
80-84	7	8	100.00%	88.89%
Total	7	9	100.00%	100.00%

Not sure why Ks are rated so low this year but there must be a reason. This matched up almost perfect and I see no reason to change it. Leaving at 100%

P:100%

Spoiler

P	Base	+10 Years	Base %	+10 Years %
95-99	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
90-94	0	0	0.00%	0.00%
85-89	0	2	0.00%	16.67%
80-84	5	10	100.00%	83.33%
Total	5	12	100.00%	100.00%

Same as Ks, Ps are rated pretty low this year. 7 more players 80+ then base but I don't have a problem with this number. Leaving at 100%

So there you have it guys. Sim 1 in the books and I think we got some good data. My suggestions are what I'm looking for in this game and the may not coincide with yours so you don't have to agree at all lol. Just take the info and do what you want with it. But my goal is to hopefully find a really good base where we can start so all my fellow franchise guys who like to go years into theirs can have an enjoyable experience. And if all else fails at least we can edit everything (Thanks for that EA).

[kwpit79]

Good work! I did the same thing back in Madden 16, but went 20 years in the future to eliminate all the "real" players. Looks like Madden really improved with the QBs progression. Last year there was an overabundance of great QBs in the league at one time, something like 24 QBs with a 90 OVR or better rating.