Let's put it to a vote: Do we need two game settings? (Sim vs online)

[JayhawkerStL]

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

Not painting anyone as anything. Based on the developer tweets I've read, online competitive players don't want randomness or dice rolls. I get that. If I'm playing a shooter, I don't want a grenade that I threw to slip out of my hand and land at my feet or my gun to randomly jam. It seems that the developers hands are tied in this regard. What I meant was for the online competitive crowd to have everything be on the money UNLESS the user opponent disrupts it. Rookie mode would be that option, not because I think someone is incapable of playing but because if someone has good stick skills it's going to show. It's easy against the AI, but not easy against a good stick player who uses all the moves and switches players timely.

You are wrong, and are wrong in such obvious and extreme ways that you are either being facetious or incapable of holding a rational conversation on this topic.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

Not painting anyone as anything. Based on the developer tweets I've read, online competitive players don't want randomness or dice rolls. I get that. If I'm playing a shooter, I don't want a grenade that I threw to slip out of my hand and land at my feet or my gun to randomly jam. It seems that the developers hands are tied in this regard. What I meant was for the online competitive crowd to have everything be on the money UNLESS the user opponent disrupts it. Rookie mode would be that option, not because I think someone is incapable of playing but because if someone has good stick skills it's going to show. It's easy against the AI, but not easy against a good stick player who uses all the moves and switches players timely.

The problem with your suggestion is that just making all CPU-controlled players brain-dead removes all skill from play-calling, which is half the battle in Madden (the other half obviously being stick skills). Tournament style players want to engage in BOTH a battle of stick skills and the mental chess match of play-calling, and a user can only control one of eleven players on the field at a given time. The other ten CPU players not under user control must still competently and predictably do their jobs and play assignment football.

For example, I expect that if I play Cover 4 that my CPU-controlled defensive backs will competently defend against four verticals without my needing to user the defensive back to swat the pass. I expect that I will allow an underneath pass and that my players' ratings in combination with my mastery of the tackling controls will dictate my ability to rally to the underneath receiver and tackle him before he reaches the first down marker.

[fistofrage]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

The problem with your suggestion is that just making all CPU-controlled players brain-dead removes all skill from play-calling, which is half the battle in Madden (the other half obviously being stick skills). Tournament style players want to engage in BOTH a battle of stick skills and the mental chess match of play-calling, and a user can only control one of eleven players on the field at a given time. The other ten CPU players not under user control must still competently and predictably do their jobs and play assignment football. For example, I expect that if I play Cover 4 that my CPU-controlled defensive backs will competently defend against four verticals without my needing to user the defensive back to swat the pass. I expect that I will allow an underneath pass and that my players' ratings in combination with my mastery of the tackling controls will dictate my ability to rally to the underneath receiver and tackle him before he reaches the first down marker.

I agree with all of that. But here's the question. It looks like the feedback the developers are getting feedback that random events or dice rolls aren't popular in regards to qb accuracy and especially dropped passes. What is everyone's take when you call the right defense. Are your defensive backs supposed to be swatting the ball and picking passes or just put the user in position to make a play. If an ai defender drops a pick or misses a swat, isn't that a dice roll.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by NDAlum

It's commonly been reference to but I don't recall seeing an actual OS poll on the matter. Do we need to have two game settings in Madden: SIM and ONLINE *They could obviously be called whatever EA wanted to label them as* To put the difference into simple terms I will define SIM as a mode where things outside of the user's control will happen (bad throws/fumbles/drops/missed blocks/bad routes/FG's much harder) and ONLINE as a mode where none of those examples happen outside of the user's control. There seems to be two very different schools of thought out there and I'm asking OS if it's time to start heavily pushing for a separation of two game mode settings so each type could have their own rendition of the game they want.

Would sim mode include a real pass rush and real qb inaccuracy for both users and cpu for once? (and in fact everything happening to both) If so count me in the YES!!!! category.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by ehh

As Underdog said, there's no reason for anyone to say no to this lol. Everyone gets what they want. EA has long been behind the times in terms of innovation, they have to catch up in the "customization of experience" area. Of course the key is what the big wigs want and will force the devs to focus on. Follow what 2K has done (and The Show, from what I've read. Not a PS4 owner). Online should be a completely different experience from offline and there should be a sim/casual option. We've had the "even teams" option for who knows how long, I can't imagine it'll be difficult to implement a "casual vs sim" or "online vs offline" toggle. Hell, with "even teams" you already have your casual/online settings for the most part. Really what this boils down to is that we need sliders that 1) work 2) work as intended/labeled. I don't know if we'll ever get it since it seems like it will require a rebuild of the sliders and the consensus is that there are "hidden" sliders and legacy issues - we all know that certain sliders don't impact what they're labeled as (see the big QBA controversy going on right now). We need to QBA to effect the amount of inaccurate throws from the QB and that's it, it needs to globally lower accuracy ratings. It can't secretly impact the CPU's playcalling, the QB's aggressiveness or the CPU WR's ability to get open. So really, in short we do not need two separate settings. Sure, that will be nice and will be icing on the cake, two different preset/defaults. We need sliders that work properly though. Without properly working sliders I don't think the concept of two different game "types" is possible. This was close to a non-issue out of the box. Sliders worked pretty well and I was having a blast. I played more seasons in franchise August through mid October than I have in the last dozen years combined. Then Patch 2 came...

WOAH WOAH WOAH. Everyone here seems to think only offline players want sim. That's FALSE. There are countless online leagues with house rules designed to force sim play. Countless online leagues who try to make it as sim as possible.

So a sim setting should NOT just be limited to either offline or online play. It should be a toggle that you choose. Maybe when you set up a CFM, have the option in the same place where you'd choose which roster to use, for example.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'm personally in the "I don't care" camp as an end user, but from the game development and post-release support perspective I can think of several very good reasons to keep the entire population of Madden locked into a single high-level gameplay configuration: ability for game designers to track and measure gameplay balance using telemetry and quickly identify issues ability for game designers and developers to deliver title updates and tuning updates which address gameplay balance issues in a timely fashion desire to avoid an explicit schism of the Madden user base between online franchise and traditional competitive modes (Ultimate Team, Draft Champions, online ranked) Again, as an end user I personally don't care and I have no reason to oppose more options for others to better enjoy the game, but from the developer's perspective this isn't at all a cut-and-dry decision.

The explicit schism already exists... You sound like the guy in the meeting room ruining the game despite the best efforts of wonderful guys like Clint and Rex.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

The explicit schism already exists... You sound like the guy in the meeting room ruining the game despite the best efforts of wonderful guys like Clint and Rex.

I'm "ruining the game" by suggesting that developers might want to be able to: easily measure the entire player base's overall skill level in the game relative to real-world statistics targets; tune their game quickly, efficiently, and with the least amount of redundant effort possible in response to conclusions drawn from those measurements; and finally, bridge the divide between the two discrete factions in the Madden player base to foster a more cohesive online community and thus improve the total online experience in the game for all players?

Seriously?

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

I agree with all of that. But here's the question. It looks like the feedback the developers are getting feedback that random events or dice rolls aren't popular in regards to qb accuracy and especially dropped passes. What is everyone's take when you call the right defense. Are your defensive backs supposed to be swatting the ball and picking passes or just put the user in position to make a play. If an ai defender drops a pick or misses a swat, isn't that a dice roll.

The game will never get entirely away from dice rolls. They must be there to create an experience which A - responds to various sets of player ratings, and B - can create outcomes which are not 100% predictable. Without random dice rolls, Luke Kuechly and his 99 TKL rating always wins against Adrian Peterson and his 95 TRK, regardless of user input. That obviously shouldn't be the case.

The dice rolls the game developers don't want to add into the game are areas where there is no control mechanic to influence the outcome. Take bad snaps, for example. If there were a game mechanic around snapping the ball in shotgun which a user could master to never have a bad snap (regardless of player ratings; obviously this level of mastery would be higher when using lower-rated players, but the ability to master the system would exist nevertheless), then you'd likely see bad snaps added into the game. Just doing random bad snaps based on dice rolls with nothing the user can do to prevent them from happening? That's no bueno.

To answer your question, what I think Tiburon wants is what the current setup mostly already is - the CPU players will play assignment football and make the obvious plays with respect to ratings and traits (for example, CPU receivers with the "Possession Catch" trait will attempt possession catches near the sidelines while receivers without the trait won't). Meanwhile, the user will have the ability to override the CPU logic to execute any available command on the controller, possibly making said player perform better than his perceived ratings and traits would otherwise dictate as a result of user input (for example, a user-controlled receiver without the "Possession Catch" trait successfully executing a possession catch near the sideline as a result of user input).