Finding balance using sliders

[akita7334]

Quote: Originally Posted by chilidogbeefcake

Would putting fumbles on 5 for both disrupt things do u think

Yes, Fumbles at 50/50 produces good results. If you want the CPU or USER to fumble more adjust like this:

More fumbles for CPU-USER 40/60 CPU (100)
More fumbles for USER-USER 60/40 CPU (100)

[akita7334]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobalou2112

Akita, I wasn't disagreeing with you in any respect. What I was pointing out is that, well, what you are offering is far more important than what you explicitly stated. Yes, there is this thing we'll call "100 Balance Complementary Sliders" which you are 'professing.' I'm totally on-board. As I mentioned, the past several years of slider threads have ample references to oddities in sliders where someone noticed a relationship between sliders or noticed that when they changed slider A, they also noticed that it didn't have the same impact as when they changed slider A within another set. More than likely, when they changed slider A the first time, they were not using a 'balance complementary' set (I mean, who used to) and that really hosed things up. But what I was pointing out is that the use of a 'balance complementary' set is not limited to 100. After checking out the 100's, I moved to 50. . .for instance, HUM QBA at 5 (five!) and CPU Pass Reaction at 45...Hum WRC at 22 and CPU Int at 28. It was interesting to say the least. It was very, very tight...and only 1 pick thrown by me. I'm actually thinking that the actual number (e.g., 100 or 50) doesn't matter. What you have 'uncovered' is that one can pretty much maintain the 'out of the box' game balance while enhancing / improving difficulty and tightness by adjusting the sliders so long as the complementary sums are consistent. That is sweet! More interestingly. . .I think this sheds light on what sliders are. Perhaps they are not so much 'tweaks' to values...rather they are value differentiators. As the speed threshold manages differences between player speeds, the sliders are managing the differences and 'scope' of aspects of the game.

Certainly, I understand. And if my methods have led you to your perfect game play that is my goal.

[SiRRreal]

Normal speed is to "Arcadey" (good word huh) for me. If I switch to slow speed should I adjust the speed threshold too? If so what do you suggest?

[akita7334]

Quote: Originally Posted by SiRRreal

Normal speed is to "Arcadey" (good word huh) for me. If I switch to slow speed should I adjust the speed threshold too? If so what do you suggest?

I use fast. If you really look at a real football game and then play on fast in Madden it really mimics the speed of a real football game. It also speeds up the CPU AI which is a good thing.

But if your gonna use Normal speed I would suggest leaving the Threshold @ 50. The threshold should be set at 90 for Very fast, 70 for Fast, 50 for Normal, 30 for Slow & 10 for Very Slow. All settings for Threshold can be + or- 5 but no more.

The reason is threshold balances out the difference between the 5 different game speeds. As you increase or decrease game speed the players get faster or slower equally.

For example: A player with a 99 speed rating will always be the fastest no matter what your settings are at. So any player with less than a 99 speed rating will of course be slower. As you adjust the game speed the speed difference between player does not adjust. So when you increase game speed the speed difference between players increases, as you decrease game speed the speed difference between players does too. The threshold setting is used to maintain a realistic difference between players speed.

[akita7334]

Quote: Originally Posted by SiRRreal

Normal speed is to "Arcadey" (good word huh) for me. If I switch to slow speed should I adjust the speed threshold too? If so what do you suggest?

Realized you wanted slow speed, use 30.

[Sturzinator]

I see you also changed fatigue to 60 and injuries to 50, vice 62 and 53.

What were you seeing that drove the change?

Your theory about speed threshold and game speed is also reversed from what the conventional thoughts are on these boards. Most advocate an inverse relationship between game speed and threshold, eg. fast speed and threshold 30, slow and threshold 70, etc. I will have to chew on that one some more....

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobalou2112

Odd, odd, odd--I tried it. . .taking one of Charter04's original sets and cutting the values in half, rounding fractions up or down to make a whole number. Defensive values were determined by (50 - (value)). Now, I chose '50' not because of any 'All Madden "thing"; just because it is half of 100. For instance, QBA is now 5 and pass reaction is now 45. Hum WRC is 23 and CPU INT is 27. Very interesting experience...there was maybe 1 interception through the half but alot of balls knocked down by dbs. As well, the game felt "small" (I don't know how to explain that...in M12 if all sliders were at zero the game felt different). Then, and this really surprised me, I left the offensive sliders as they were and recalculated the defensive sliders (HUM QBA 5, CPU Pass Reaction 95, WRC 23, Interceptions 77). . . but I am not getting crushed.

There we go. See how you can zip up the sliders so there are no open spaces on our tests. If your highest value is going to be 50, then that should be what your test is out of - nothing on your sliders should exceed 50. I feel 100 is too high because its like having a test where not all the questions are answered - as you said, 50 felt 'small'.

My judgment is that a tighter test will produce a more refined game. Having a 50 tackling ability when the range is 100 seems wasteful to many and so does every other slider when all that potential is unable to be tapped.

The community has discovered that QB's can still throw an accurate ball below 10, so why have the interaction with pass coverage at a range of 100?

In conclusion, I like the idea of using a smaller test sample - esp if we are looking for simulated gamestyle. The only challenge I see ahead is our resistance to change and our rigidness on set conclusions. If the game can be sampled 50/100, it can certainly be sampled 50/50.

Balaou, you are getting us closer to realizing perfection - Akita has shined light on how the components compliment each other and now we are going to complement that relationship with the appropriate efficacy - its going to bring a striking balance of thunder and lightening, ying and yang. Obvs, we can get a perfect score on this test

[akita7334]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sturzinator

I see you also changed fatigue to 60 and injuries to 50, vice 62 and 53. What were you seeing that drove the change? Your theory about speed threshold and game speed is also reversed from what the conventional thoughts are on these boards. Most advocate an inverse relationship between game speed and threshold, eg. fast speed and threshold 30, slow and threshold 70, etc. I will have to chew on that one some more....

In regards to games speed and threshold when the game speed is changed to fast for example all the players get faster equally creating a greater speed difference between players. Adjusting the threshold to 70 reduces this affect and keeps the same difference of speed between players.

If you go to slow speed you would want 30 because all players get slower equally and the lower threshold setting increases the difference of speed between players.

Fatigue was a misprint when I first posted. Fatigue is a setting that can be adjusted to ur liking. I am still testing at this point. I was looking for a relationship between injuries and fatigue but I don't believe either slider affect the CPU so the closer to default the better, especially injuries.