UFC 101: Declaration - August 8th in Philadelphia

[The Chef]

Yeah, Penn didnt deserve a fight with GSP after their close decision the first time they fought. UFC is in the money making business and a super fight between two guys who fought to a tough decision the first time would sell more tickets then throwing Penn back in there with another LW who really wasnt going to pose any threat to Penn anyways. Somehow Penn is overrated because of this? Well atleast you finally answered the question, even though I find your answer completely ridiculous.

[Wet Bandit]

Quote: Originally Posted by Timmay

Then suddenly with 3 LW victories under his belt, he somehow is right up GSP's level? People actually thought he belonged in the ring with the guy?

You're talking about Penn as if he started fighting in 2007.

Of course Penn belonged in the octagon with GSP. Penn busted him up in their first fight in 2006 in a controversial split decision loss.

Penn has done the most consistent damage to GSP in any fight GSP has fought over the last four years. And in that time GSP has dominated Trigg, Sherk, Hughes twice, Serra, Fitch, Koscheck, and Alves. Sure, Serra caught him once in the back of the head, but Penn put in the single best overall performance against GSP in four years.

I'm not sure how you can ignore that.

[MC Fatigue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Wet Bandit

You're talking about Penn as if he started fighting in 2007. Of course Penn belonged in the octagon with GSP. Penn busted him up in their first fight in 2006 in a controversial split decision loss. Penn has done the most consistent damage to GSP in any fight GSP has fought over the last four years. And in that time GSP has dominated Trigg, Sherk, Hughes twice, Serra, Fitch, Koscheck, and Alves. Sure, Serra caught him once in the back of the head, but Penn put in the single best overall performance against GSP in four years. I'm not sure how you can ignore that.

And their fight was some 3 years prior to this last fight; GSP since then has grown immensely and become a much different fighter; BJ Penn hasn't; he's improved his skill set naturally, as any fighter over time does, but after 3 years GSP grew leaps and bounds, where as Penn grew in little ways here and there.

He did not belong in the cage with him that second time, and it was clear well before the match was set up.

[Wet Bandit]

Quote: Originally Posted by Timmay

And their fight was some 3 years prior to this last fight; GSP since then has grown immensely and become a much different fighter; BJ Penn hasn't; he's improved his skill set naturally, as any fighter over time does, but after 3 years GSP grew leaps and bounds, where as Penn grew in little ways here and there.

In what way has GSP grown immensely? Seriously. What's dramatically different about GSP now than three years ago?

Quote: Originally Posted by Timmay

He did not belong in the cage with him that second time, and it was clear well before the match was set up.

Based on what? His three dominating victories at lightweight? His loss to Hughes two-and-a-half years earlier in a fight where Penn took the first two rounds before getting stopped in the third?

You're making a lot of declarative statements, but saying absolutely nothing to back them up.

[MC Fatigue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Wet Bandit

In what way has GSP grown immensely? Seriously. What's dramatically different about GSP now than three years ago?

Have you watched his fights since then? Explain to me where he has NOT dramatically improved.

Quote:

Based on what? His three dominating victories at lightweight? His loss to Hughes two-and-a-half years earlier in a fight where Penn took the first two rounds before getting stopped in the third?

And all that was still the same fighter from the WW division; he dropped down to the LW division and used his talents to get to the top; he's improved, but not nearly on the level GSP did.

Quote:

You're making a lot of declarative statements, but saying absolutely nothing to back them up.

So are you - implying GSP hasn't raised his level by leaps and bounds in the last 3 years. Every fight he comes out looking even better than he did last time - stronger, faster, smarter; his striking looks better with every fight, his wrestling... everything.

Penn doesn't do that - the Penn that fought GSP the first time is still very much the Penn that fought him this last time - and it showed. GSP raised his game to another level, while Penn did not.

[Wet Bandit]

Quote: Originally Posted by Timmay

Have you watched his fights since then? Explain to me where he has NOT dramatically improved.

His striking, wrestling, strength, athleticism, and conditioning did not dramatically improve in those three years.

I think you're severely underestimating the GSP of three years ago. He outwrestled good to great wrestlers in Trigg, Sherk, and Hughes. He used his very good striking to pick apart Sherk and in his two fights against Hughes around that time. And he's been an athletic phenom ever since he debuted.

The only areas I think you can make a good case for GSP dramatically improving are his mentality and his jiu-jitsu. But that hasn't made him a dramatically better fighter. He's still the same guy dominating people with very good kickboxing and outstanding wrestling, strength, and conditioning.

[ex carrabba fan]

Finally some valid discussion...

[MC Fatigue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Wet Bandit

His striking, wrestling, strength, athleticism, and conditioning did not dramatically improve in those three years. I think you're severely underestimating the GSP of three years ago. He outwrestled good to great wrestlers in Trigg, Sherk, and Hughes. He used his very good striking to pick apart Sherk and in his two fights against Hughes around that time. And he's been an athletic phenom ever since he debuted. The only areas I think you can make a good case for GSP dramatically improving are his mentality and his jiu-jitsu. But that hasn't made him a dramatically better fighter. He's still the same guy dominating people with very good kickboxing and outstanding wrestling, strength, and conditioning.

I think his last fight against Penn compared to his first is proof enough of his evolution as a fighter; the first fight was a battle of two very evenly matched fighters, the second was a complete annihilation and domination. GSP PROVED he's evolved greatly since their last fight.