What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

[NINJAK2]

I've been begging for more forced dribble pick-ups when users attempt to spam the paint or bullheadedly dribble into your chest repeatedly. Last time I remember seeing this was in 2k6. Right now users don't really get punished for these practices. It was cool in 2k6 when a guy would lose his dribble at half-court or in some other part of the court and be forced to pass or shoot from an undesireable location.


They really need to add more animations on the defensive side of the ball both on and off ball. Sometimes it can be difficult for the defense to create contact animations with offensive players and this needs to change imo. I really liked those defensive off ball animations in the competition's video..2k needs to bring in Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest or someone to help 2k figure out tricks of the trade for playing man 2 man d in the nba and incorporate them into their product.

[WishListGOD 1 OF 2]

We WishListGod believe that defense can be vastly improved by implementing these simple things. 2k has the foundation already to have good defense but is hamperd by bad balance.

• REMOVING DELAY/Tighten Up. There is a strange floating feeling when playing defense weather online or not a sense of being detached that feeling is because of bad momentum mapping. Your LITERALLY not fast enough on defense so the game makes up for this by sliding you in areas you Couldn't keep up "zig zag cheese" exploits this and auto contest is the excuse. The SOLUTION to this is to tighten up the defense add the missing steps regardless if your beat or not and have attributes of speed determine the shuffle of your feet to keep up. Also if get beat off the dribble give the player the ability to manually cut them off useing the right stick in the desired direction so people can be held accountable.

• MORE CONTROL /Animations. While offense is getting there more and more defense always seems to be two steps slow(pun intended) we need things LIKE being able to bump the ball handler with are bodys by tapping RT/R2 for each an EVERY bumb to slow them down with responsiveness. Being able to guard off ball aggressive effectively by shadowing are match up holding the RIGHT STICK in their direction to sleal them off. If are match up tries to run and get open we can stay with them by continuing to hold the RIGHT STICK in there direction but holding RT/R2 to sprint with them trying to deny ball. Attributes such as fatigue pay a huge part in being effective at this (Tony Allen) or not (Matthew Dellevadova). More defense can hamper offense due to the fatigue of playing both sides(defensive stoper will be required to lighten load) players will have to think(play smart)/strategy MORE CONTROL.

• CLEANING UP/Rebounding. NO MORE baked animation under the rim if i box you out LT/L2 i can use the LEFT STICK and RT/R2 to aggressively guide you away from the rim in ANY direction the stick points, how far depending on your strength, positining and size. Also if i establish good position i have the CHOICE to grab the rebound Hold Y/TRIANGLE or tap it out by taping Y/TRIANGLE useing the LEFT STICK to direct the tap. This should be free moving and fluid no canimations, some players shoud be so good at establishing position that they don't even have to jump get a rebound, tip, or tap this should be skill based with attributes only determining (strength/BOX OUT/back down). Also the game should just give us the ability to box out or keep at bay useing the RIGHT STICK someone just standing under the rim with no position arms folded. The only reason charge cheese rebounding is a problem is because the game WARPS the ball to anybody whos closer to the ball and doesn't count the cheeser until he's jumping for the ball and decides he was there first just bad game logic.

• BRING BACK LIVE BALL PHYSICS/no brainer.

Sorry if this post was a little sloppy typing on a ps4

[stillfeelme]

Quote: Originally Posted by www.Coach2K.com

I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. Obviously your CPU teammates are programmed to do something anyway, why not use the settings to control what they do? But when a CPU defender does through programming what he's told to do, for example double the ball in a pick and roll, that CPU doubler is often more effective than a manually controlled one which leads me to call that assistance. Remember, nothing prevents you from playing the pick and roll a certain way manually with the screener's defender at any time regardless of setting and that's what I think players should do, move control to the screener and back to the ball handler. I've watched the Pacers get killed continually go over screens 30 feet from the basket versus the Heat in conference finals situations with Vogel never changing that up even though I personally thought it was the stupidest thing I ever saw and I don't do it in 2K. So it could be argued am I really playing sim basketball if I make my team play defense in such a way they wouldn't in real life? Anyway, while the intended purpose of settings is sound, in reality, the way the settings influence the game play makes it more of CPU assistance in my mind. My own personal feelings for this comes from my experiments playing the HOF CPU. Without settings, when I first play a team, I give up 65 percent shooting. But, if go in and tweak the settings, suddenly I can hold the team under 50 percent. Did I magically become a better defender between those games? The answer is no, I made the CPU behind me a better defender. However, with practice and experience playing that same HOF CPU team over and over, I can learn to hold that same HOF CPU team to under 50 percent manually. While, I don't mind the use of them against me, to me, it makes more sense when you are playing versus another user to be as manual as possible and by that teams natural tendencies. I want to get beat by the user and not the users CPU settings.

I see what you are saying but basketball is a team game. The whole team has to play as a unit or weaknesses will get exposed. When teams game plan to slow down a the other team the settings are basically what they are they are using to try to stop a team. That is you being the coach and player. Now if you feel something is overpowered to a point you think it is cheesy. I guess there may be something there

The problem is the default "auto" settings don't really reflect what schemes each team use on defense. That and they don't reflect enough options how teams choose to defend the pick and roll based on a bunch of matchups. The POE's is probably close but still not quite there

The part about the CPU being dumb, haha yeah your teammates are not optimized to play the best you need to make them better when you are not controlling them. I play sim but I am not about to have me playing sim to make sure I don't play smart basketball. Some coaches schemes don't make sense all the time to me. But I am not about to follow that just to make sure I am sim

[hesko]

this has to be the best post ive seen on here. defense has to be looked at for sure. < #noglance

[hesko]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

I've been begging for more forced dribble pick-ups when users attempt to spam the paint or bullheadedly dribble into your chest repeatedly. Last time I remember seeing this was in 2k6. Right now users don't really get punished for these practices. It was cool in 2k6 when a guy would lose his dribble at half-court or in some other part of the court and be forced to pass or shoot from an undesireable location. They really need to add more animations on the defensive side of the ball both on and off ball. Sometimes it can be difficult for the defense to create contact animations with offensive players and this needs to change imo. I really liked those defensive off ball animations in the competition's video..2k needs to bring in Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest or someone to help 2k figure out tricks of the trade for playing man 2 man d in the nba and incorporate them into their product.

i agree, they need to mocap them or do whatever they need to do to have the added animations animate realistically.

[hesko]

I think it should be by a players defensive tendencies, defensive rating, and defensive skill. yes you can only control one player at a time, but say if i am controlling draymond green, i want to feel like "draymond green" playing defense. on the cpu side, all those factors should come into play based off of real life stats they get from the nba on each player. i say this because even though we are playing a video game, i need to feel like i have 4 other guys on my team with me. i know everyone has had a wtf kind of defense is that moment. where you thought your team mate would clearly pickup the opposing ball handler since he was facing him only to turn around and give up an easy basket.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by hesko

i know everyone has had a wtf kind of defense is that moment. where you thought your team mate would clearly pickup the opposing ball handler since he was facing him only to turn around and give up an easy basket.

Yeah, that's common. I get that sometimes players flake out on a rotation, and that's what the IQ attributes are about on defense. But a lot of times this seems to happen just because the dice roll dictates an animation where the offense wins, but there are not enough contact or defensive animations available to make the in game representation look like what you will actually see in an NBA game.

Too many defenders in 2k actually get out of the way of guys driving to the lane right in front of them. I don't care how bad your defensive awareness is, no one (except Andrea Bargnani) literally gets out of the way of a driving player down low when he's the last man between the guy with the ball and the basket.

[Roger_Black]

Some really good suggestions in this thread.

Allow me to add some additional thoughts I had to improve defense.

HARD FOULS

There should be 3 types of fouls in the game, imo.

- Normal Fouls
- Hard Fouls
- Intentional Fouls

So we need a button combo to commit a ‘hard foul’.

No, not a foul that is used maliciously to injure another player…. just a foul hard enough to establish a ‘tough’ defensive style of play.

(And NO, I DO NOT mean give us a button that allows us ‘punch someone in the face’ like in that old-school “Arch-Rivals” video game, either.)

Just deliver hard foul…. like that current 2k15 animation of wrapping someone up around the shoulders, that usually results in a ‘no-call’ form the refs. (Yeah, THAT one - lol)

THAT animation (in particular) could be one of the ‘hard-foul’ animations I am speaking of, imo.

Say if we press [square on the PS4] to deliver a ‘normal foul’ and hold [L1+R1] to deliver an ‘intentional foul’… then we would need to do something like ‘hold all four triggers [l1+r1+l2+r2] and press (square) to deliver a ‘hard foul’, or something like that.

And if the refs call THAT foul.. it is highly likely that you are getting a Flagrant 1 for the whistle.

However, spamming these Hard Fouls will most likely get you ejected quickly… as the penalties get stiffer & stiffer very fast…. and go from Flagrant 2-level fouls / ejections…. to receiving (whole game) suspensions.


Sometimes, a well-timed Hard Foul is strategic. Not Malicious.

It should be used to disrupt someone who is ‘hot’…. at a key moment during the game. (Perhaps during a comeback run, or to stop their ‘scoring steak’)

The Hard fouls is

And ‘Gamefaces’ should also be created to counter (or enhance) the effect of the ‘hard fouls’.


———————————————————————————————————————

GAMEFACES

Some players show up ‘ready to play’.. and bring their A+ game, when you LEAST expect it.

Think of Matthew Dellavedova & Andre Igoudala in this year's 2015 NBA Finals.

With that in mind...

How do players feel when they show up to the game?

Do they feel Loose? Irritated? Upset? Motivated? Hyped Up? Scrappy? Antsy? Determined? Focused? Locked In? or is their Mind Wandering?

Consider “Gamefaces’ to be like TEMPORARY BADGES that only last for (1) single game…. Until the very next opening ‘jump ball’.

And these Badges/Gamefaces are random.
You CANNOT buy Gamefaces with VC.

Gamefaces. Just. Happen.

These types of badges rotate among your roster (from game to game) to ensure that noone is benefitted permanently by them.

- Some of these (temporary) badges might ‘boost’ performance a bit.
- Some of these (temporary) badges might ‘decrease’ performance a bit.
- And if used strategically, some of these (temporary) badges could change the outcome of the game.

Btw, not everyone gets a Gameface. Every game.

'Which player' gets one should be completely random.

And only 2 or 3 Gamefaces are given per team / per game.

Your team might get 3. Or you might get just 1, or none.

And if your team gets one... it might be a bench player that you rarely sub into the game.

Which should become 'the proper motivation' you need to give that benchwarmer some minutes.





There would be LOTS of Gamefaces that do all kinds of stuff.... but here's a look at 2 For example:

The “Energizer Buddy” Gameface:
- This player has been ‘feeling it’ all day… and its contagious.
- Expect your team Rhythm to receive a boost in the 4th quarter (during crunchtime).
- Whenever this player is on the court, his teammates are inspired to ‘take a beating & keep on ticking’.
- This Gameface is nullified when an opponent who has a ’Hard Knocks’ Gameface is on the floor.


The “Hard Knocks” Gameface:
- This player ate his Wheaties today. Seriously.
- So he’s bringing some ‘brick wall’ screens & ‘hard fouls’ to the arena. Get ready.
- If a player with this Gameface is in the game & delivers a (timely) ‘hard foul’…. the opposing team’s rhythm is severely affected (possibly for the rest of the quarter).
- The opposing team will definitely get shook-up if their ‘Energizer Buddy’ is not on the court if this player ever gives out a ‘hard foul’.
- If their Energizer Buddy IS on the court and you give a hard foul… things may get a little testy… but your opponents rhythm is not impacted at all.
- The player with this badge could keep you the ballgame if things get tight, but he may also get ejected for a ‘flagrant foul’. - Will you risk it?


———————————————————————————————————————

HOW DOES IT WORK?

Here’s a ‘real-world’ example of exactly how 2 Gamefaces work in action….

Using: Bulls vs Jazz



Let’s use MJ, Pippen, Stockton & Malone, for example.

- Stockton gets the ‘Hard Knocks’ Gameface, right before the tipoff of the game.
- Malone gets the ‘Energizer Buddy’ Gameface.(or vice versa)

- And Jordan gets the ‘Hard Knocks’ Gameface at the beginning of the game.
- And Pippen gets the ‘Energizer Buddy’ Gameface.(or vice versa)




Now fast forward to the start of the 4th quarter….

- Bulls have been leading pretty much the entire game.
- The game is on the verge of a blowout, in favor of Chicago.
- Pippen gets subbed out to get some rest.
- So stockton takes a ‘hard foul’ on Jordan (….who has scored 30 points by now).
- Since Pippen was not on the court to nullify the effect of the ‘hard foul’… the Jazz go on an extended run, make a serious comeback and tie the ballgame.


Ultimately, the game goes to Overtime….

- And 3 Brand New Gamefaces are randomly assigned to different players, right before the tipoff of Overtime.


———————————————————————————————————————

CREATE YOUR OWN RIVALRIES


Maybe these badges would even have some effect on the ‘crowd reactions & chants’.. .especially if these ‘hard fouls’ occur in a game between ‘known rivals’. (i.e. - like the Knicks vs Heat, or Celtics vs Lakers, or Nets vs Raptors, or Cavs vs Warriors, etc, or Houston vs Golden State. or Pistons vs Pacers, etc)

Imagine playing defense .. then you decide to give out a ‘hard foul’ in the 1st quarter… then having the crowd either ’boo’ or ‘cheer’ your MyPlayer VERY LOUDLY every time he touched the ball, for the rest of the game.

Now imagine (intentionally) giving out a ‘hard foul’ every single time these two teams meet.

After maybe the 2nd or 3rd game…. these hard fouls now establish a ‘rivalry’ between these two teams in the future… (instead of using the RPG-fashion ‘smack-talk’ between predetermined players - which is a rivalry that 2k wants to create… instead of us creating it.)

I liked James Harden in 2k15.

So why I am forced to smack-talk him……. when I would MUCH rather establish a clear rivalry with the Spurs instead?
OR any other team of MY choosing.

If done right... Hard Fouls + Gameface combos can allow you to create your own ‘custom rivalries’.