Since some of you are Hating on Mike Vick w/o facts...

[tmccormi]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigsmallwood

Actually I far from anybody's troll. I was just way from the CPU....and anything I said all you all did was present "False Arguments" about Vick....You are consumed by the fact that he killed dogs.

You are indeed a troll, posting a thread criticizing others for "Hating" on Mike Vick without facts while failing to do so yourself.

I for one, never mentioned anything about Vick, and for that matter, his character as a whole. In fact, I recall only one poster even mentioning the dog incident.

I'm unsure what you mean by "False Arguments", given the fact that you presented nothing for us to respond to besides disillusioned ideas that Vick is or was a great QB. Your one argument was that Vick has won big games (2), and after that was retorted with the Dilfer analogy you simply trolled on... Troll

[tmccormi]

Rainesdaddy-

If you understood the premise of this thread, or the OPs original intentions, I think you could've saved yourself a lot of typing.

The Original poster dared us to name 10 Current QBs who were better than Vick, and after doing so he refused to accept it. That would have been fine and all, but given that he has made no claims or arguments, this whole 9 page thread has been showing him that Vick is nowhere near the top-level QB he is making him out to be.

I really haven't seen that many posts saying Vick was awful or wasn't a special talent, simply stating that he is clearly not, nor ever was an elite level QB

[rainesdaddy]

Quote: Originally Posted by tmccormi

Rainesdaddy- If you understood the premise of this thread, or the OPs original intentions, I think you could've saved yourself a lot of typing. The Original poster dared us to name 10 Current QBs who were better than Vick, and after doing so he refused to accept it. That would have been fine and all, but given that he has made no claims or arguments, this whole 9 page thread has been showing him that Vick is nowhere near the top-level QB he is making him out to be. I really haven't seen that many posts saying Vick was awful or wasn't a special talent, simply stating that he is clearly not, nor ever was an elite level QB

to me its all relative. because even though he's still in college, everyone is touting tebow as the next big thing, but hes just as inaccurate as vick, but he has some wonderful wrs, statistically bradshaw wasnt outatanding. so its whatever your definition of elite is, i mean dilfer won a sb, played well, and got cut, and replaced by............elvis grbac......ELVIS GRBAC!and yes i understood the premise of the thread, just commenting on the others comments, and yes many statements about how awful he was, but i dont think he's top ten today, i dont know what he is.

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by rainesdaddy

to me its all relative. because even though he's still in college, everyone is touting tebow as the next big thing,

This is a completely inaccurate statement. There are many people on both sides of the fence, and if you asked my opinion, I have heard more people who think he will NOT be an NFL QB than those who do.

[tmccormi]

Quote: Originally Posted by rainesdaddy

so its whatever your definition of elite is

- Great in the clutch
- Makes his team better
- Puts up good, if not great numbers
- Is a leader
- Always puts his team in a position to win games/have a successful season

Just a few factors, and only the stats part I can even consider giving to Vick

[rainesdaddy]

Quote: Originally Posted by tmccormi

- Great in the clutch - Makes his team better - Puts up good, if not great numbers - Is a leader - Always puts his team in a position to win games/have a successful season Just a few factors, and only the stats part I can even consider giving to Vick

good points. thats your idea of an elite qb, and thats ok, it just may not be mine. the one major point to me is changing your entire offensive or defensive philosophy for a specific player, having to account for him on every play. some may or may not agree, no one's right or wrong, thats why i love opinions.

[lasthour]

A QB who runs a 4.2ish 40 is different than any QB in history. Most elite running backs can't do that. Cunningham could evade, scramble and throw. Vick is speed, quickness and more speed. He simply can beat teams with his feet. He made some NFL teams look like college teams. He made great defenses look like bad defenses. And when you played the Falcons you had to change your defensive scheme for that game or risk giving up 200-300 rushing yards.

I see it as he was an experiment and the coaching staff were trying to grasp what they had with him and what new things they could do with him that they could not do with any other QB they have EVER SEEN OR PLAYED THE GAME.

I think some of you underestimate his ability because it did not look like Tom Brady's ability. How many teams have ever had probably the fastest player on the team at the QB position?

Well just my 2 cents, I hope some of you see where I am coming from. I personally do not even like the guy, but I saw that he was just different from other QB period. He looks like Steve Smith at the Quarterback position, an athletic freak.

[tmccormi]

Quote: Originally Posted by rainesdaddy

good points. thats your idea of an elite qb, and thats ok, it just may not be mine. the one major point to me is changing your entire offensive or defensive philosophy for a specific player, having to account for him on every play. some may or may not agree, no one's right or wrong, thats why i love opinions.

Hey man, I don't mind someone disagreeing as long as the provide their own opinion and back them up with reasons and such.

Just to yyour points though, which I agree with 100%, I do not know for sure in Vick's case whether it was what was best for the team in the grand scheme of things. I can not question that Vick presented a unique challenge for everyy D coordinator who faced him, but this accountability didn't always translate into wins and losses for the team.

Of course, it takes an entire team to win, but in the same sense the Falcons had to change their entire philosophy to account for Vick. when something or system didn't work, they had to change it which set the team back time and time again. IMO, this almost cancels out the accountability of the other team for Vick by keeping Atlanta from forming a true identity during the Vick years.