Joe Flacco should be highest-paid NFL QB, agent says

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Alliball

Not even the same thing.

It's even funnier bc Cruz is expecting to get paid this year and the Giants aren't likely to do it. Meanwhile Flacco was happy to push off his contract discussion last year also with Ray Rice and others needing to be taken care of. It's not his fault that waiting gave him a chance to win a SB MVP.

Not sure what the news is here anyway. His agent wants him to paid? No kidding. And the comparisons to other QBs makes no sense unless those other QBs are looking for a new contract RIGHT NOW also. QBs redefine the market every year.

Quote: Originally Posted by 55

A QB that has completed less than sixty percent of his passes in the last two seasons, has never thrown for 4,000 yards in a season and never thrown more than 25 touchdown passes in a season does not deserve 20 million dollars a year.

I would hope the front office wouldn't focus on fantasy numbers and consider that in 5 years he's been SB MVP (probably playoff MVP this year), been to 3 AFCC games, has won at least one game in the playoffs every season, and his team has won their division the last two years in a row.

It is a team sport, so these type of numbers shouldn't be used alone to compare players, but when thinking about what a player means to a team they most definitely should be taken into account. I also think it's funny to bring up numbers including what anyone did their rookie and second years in the league... especially at QB. The last two years, Flacco has been as good as any QB in the playoffs... the same time the team has been transitioning from ground and pound relying on defense to having to lean on the offense to win more.

[ABR173rd]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

It's even funnier bc Cruz is expecting to get paid this year and the Giants aren't likely to do it. Meanwhile Flacco was happy to push off his contract discussion last year also with Ray Rice and others needing to be taken care of. It's not his fault that waiting gave him a chance to win a SB MVP. Not sure what the news is here anyway. His agent wants him to paid? No kidding. And the comparisons to other QBs makes no sense unless those other QBs are looking for a new contract RIGHT NOW also. QBs redefine the market every year. I would hope the front office wouldn't focus on fantasy numbers and consider that in 5 years he's been SB MVP (probably playoff MVP this year), been to 3 AFCC games, has won at least one game in the playoffs every season, and his team has won their division the last two years in a row. It is a team sport, so these type of numbers shouldn't be used alone to compare players, but when thinking about what a player means to a team they most definitely should be taken into account. I also think it's funny to bring up numbers including what anyone did their rookie and second years in the league... especially at QB. The last two years, Flacco has been as good as any QB in the playoffs... the same time the team has been transitioning from ground and pound relying on defense to having to lean on the offense to win more.

What's getting lost in all of this is as you stated it is a team sport. Some have better personnel than others; cap space and value are a big part of that. Joe did not solely win those playoff games, the Ravens defense-while diminishing- have been an above average defense during Flaccos tenure. Flacco has had a great running game, good special teams this year, and a good core of WR's. This whole argument of Flacco beating Manning and Flacco beating Brady is ridiculous (referring to the media). Judging by his overall body of work he is an above average-not elite-QB. He is not a QB that you could throw onto any team is going to be a huge factor in their success.

Just looking at some quick stats during the regular season since Flacco has been in the league-

Baltimore=
Defense PPG allowed Ranking- 4.8 with a median ranking of 3.
Defense YA per game ranking- 7 with a median of 3

This season Baltimore was ranked 11th in RUYD's per game and 15th in passing.

I'm pointing this out because people are giving Flacco a lot of credit for post season wins and making it into the playoffs when statistically he has not been the driving factor.

[DukeC]

Wait a minute. Wait. A. Minute.

Are you saying you'd rather have Matt Ryan than Joe Flacco at this point? Even before this season going back to last year's playoffs I'd rather have Joe Flacco because he'd proven multiple times that he steps up his play in the playoffs.

It's all well and good to get there, but if you consistently crumble when it's time to perform then what are you doing? Joe Flacco has proven that once he's gotten to the playoffs he performs like an Elite QB.

As far as the defense goes...how does that impact how well Joe Flacco throws the ball? So the defense is all of a sudden buying time by scrambling out of the pocket to throw a deep ball that seems to hang in the air for a century yet still having enough accuracy to where his reciever and only his receiver can make a play on it? The defense is all of a sudden doing his check-downs now? They are all of a sudden making the correct throws and taking what the defense gives him?

I know he doesn't put up "OH MY GOD GREATEST REGULAR SEASON EVAH!" numbers, but once he gets to the playoffs he damn sure plays like it. Becuase what matters at the end of the day? Stats? Nope, wins do. And he just got the biggest win of his career while playing the best a QB has ever done in the playoffs (tying Joe Montana's TD record in the playoffs, while also having no interceptions).

What more can you ask for at this point? What makes you think he hasn't turned a corner when everything points to the fact that he may have?

Edit: Matt Ryan (AKA Peyton Jr.) : http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...pe/3/matt-ryan

Joe Flacco: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...e/3/joe-flacco

For the past 3 years Joe Flacco has played tremendously well in the playoffs.

[areobee401]

Joe Flacco will receive whatever salary the market dictates. Same as every free agent Quarterback before him.

[55]

Quote: Originally Posted by DukeC

Are you saying you'd rather have Matt Ryan than Joe Flacco at this point?

It's close, but yes.

But if all that matters are wins and stats aren't important, then why is Tim Tebow sitting on the bench on a terrible team? That line of thinking is incredibly flawed.

Joe Flacco is a solid quarterback, no doubt. But he isn't in the same galaxy as the top four guys at his position: Brady, Brees, P. Manning and Rodgers. Hell, a healthy Roethlisberger is a better player, too.

This guy absolutely does not deserve 20 million dollars a year and I have yet to see a compelling argument that disputes that.

If I'm Baltimore, I low ball him on a deal (like 6/90) knowing he isn't going to accept it and then franchise tag him for 2013. Chances are, the Ravens won't win the Super Bowl again next year (let's face it, the odds are extremely against repeating in today's NFL) and Baltimore will have more leverage in locking him up long term next year. It might not be the "nicest" way to handle the situation, but this is a business at the end of the day and investing 20 million dollars a year in a quarterback that will never be one of the top five best in the league at any point in his career isn't good for business. Especially when you have an entire defense to rebuild!

[DukeC]

Quote: Originally Posted by 55

It's close, but yes. But if all that matters are wins and stats aren't important, then why is Tim Tebow sitting on the bench on a terrible team? That line of thinking is incredibly flawed. Joe Flacco is a solid quarterback, no doubt. But he isn't in the same galaxy as the top four guys at his position: Brady, Brees, P. Manning and Rodgers. Hell, a healthy Roethlisberger is a better player, too. This guy absolutely does not deserve 20 million dollars a year and I have yet to see a compelling argument that disputes that. If I'm Baltimore, I low ball him on a deal (like 6/90) knowing he isn't going to accept it and then franchise tag him for 2013. Chances are, the Ravens won't win the Super Bowl again next year (let's face it, the odds are extremely against repeating in today's NFL) and Baltimore will have more leverage in locking him up long term next year. It might not be the "nicest" way to handle the situation, but this is a business at the end of the day and investing 20 million dollars a year in a quarterback that will never be one of the top five best in the league at any point in his career isn't good for business. Especially when you have an entire defense to rebuild!

1st Bolded: Flacco helps them WIN in the playoffs despite his above average (Since when was a 2:1 TD to Interception ratio considered average or bad?) passing numbers. That's why I said that winning was more important. He helps them when it's win or go home. Matt Ryan (As well as Tom Brady for the past couple of years) devolves into an average QB come playoff time.

2nd Bolded: That's fine. All those guys are outstanding regular season quarterbacks (cept for maybe Rothslisberger, tho I'd have to go peek at the stats again). None of those dudes played as well as Joe Flacco in the playoffs. Joe Flacco is there, and a factor come playoff time and usually delivers (And this playoffs delivered an all-time great Playoff QB performance).

3rd Bolded: Who's the alternative at this point? When you play like an all-time great QB in the time it matters most and you win Superbowl MVP to boot? There's not a lot the Ravens can do in this situation except either pay him or franchise him (like you said, though I don't know if they can do that). Letting him go isn't an option unless they want to set themselves back several years.

I think they would do everything possible to prevent another Elvis Grbac situation.

[Sportsforever]

Why do we care? Any one of us paying his paycheck...good for him, get what he can.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by ABR173rd

What's getting lost in all of this is as you stated it is a team sport. Some have better personnel than others; cap space and value are a big part of that. Joe did not solely win those playoff games, the Ravens defense-while diminishing- have been an above average defense during Flaccos tenure. Flacco has had a great running game, good special teams this year, and a good core of WR's. This whole argument of Flacco beating Manning and Flacco beating Brady is ridiculous (referring to the media). Judging by his overall body of work he is an above average-not elite-QB. He is not a QB that you could throw onto any team is going to be a huge factor in their success. Just looking at some quick stats during the regular season since Flacco has been in the league- Baltimore= Defense PPG allowed Ranking- 4.8 with a median ranking of 3. Defense YA per game ranking- 7 with a median of 3 This season Baltimore was ranked 11th in RUYD's per game and 15th in passing. I'm pointing this out because people are giving Flacco a lot of credit for post season wins and making it into the playoffs when statistically he has not been the driving factor.

So you took something from my post but ignored the part about using stats from a rookie or 2nd year? lol... especially for a player that was eased in bc of the talent on defense and at RB? This was the same path of Brady and Big Ben btw, but when you're only looking at 5 years of stats and at least two of them fall into this your evaluation is clearly skewed.

But whatever, we can talk about the regular seasons too. The Ravens have had a dominant defense since they won the Superbowl in 2000. They've also had a dominant rushing game for most of that time. But in the last 5 years they've won enough regular season games to make it to the playoffs, winning the division 3 of those. And the D hasn't been anywhere close to the Ravens D of the past the last two years.

I know you've heard all the Ravens fans around here complaining about playcalling and Cam... he gets fired at an extremely questionable time and Flacco looks even better. But lets group all of this in with his rookie year, run some numbers and give the D all the credit, lol. And as for throwing him on any team, Qbs that play on teams with great defenses don't have gaudy stats for that exact reason. Who knows what Flacco would do in the Packers or Pats offense? He has a hell of an arm and is more accurate than most want to give him credit for. Either way, I know what the Ravens have looked like since he began starting... don't care what any other team would look like with him and am happy we won't be finding out.

Quote: Originally Posted by areobee401

Joe Flacco will receive whatever salary the market dictates. Same as every free agent Quarterback before him.

Exactly. Every year there is some player that gets scrutinized bc people think where they rank on the financial scale determines where they rank as players. This is nothing new.