Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[KWhit]

EDT. It's past to change the execution. If it's up to me, I'll have to trust someone.
Here's the rule:

The Captain may change the person to be executed, regardless of the vote (and even if no one was scheduled to be executed). This triggers a night vote for Mutiny (see Executions – Mutiny above). This order must be sent to the GM at least 30 minutes before the voting deadline and may be conditional (example: If Pete, change execution to Bob, otherwise do not change). 1 point


It sounds like you can't do anything at this point (but it's worth a shot, I guess).

[Blade6119]

Well if you weren't so adamant in killing me asap, I would have voted for one of the lazy engineers. I'm just protecting myself and trying to help this crew.

If you are a survivor, then we are screwed because they will go after me tomorrow (another survivor).
Dola, there is his evidence...real damning on me jeff...facts are facts, huh? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jeff061]

Fouts said he saw someone stab King with a knife. This was not public knowledge. This is how I killed King.

And theres nothing on you really, other than you being quite wrong quite a lot.

[RealDeal]

Considering the importance of Blade's role, he has to get scanned tomorrow.

[jeff061]

And the roll eyes really annoy me, you're lucky I don't have a second kill ;).

[KWhit]

And the roll eyes really annoy me, you're lucky I don't have a second kill ;).
:rolleyes:

[jeff061]

:mad:

[Blade6119]

Fouts said he saw someone stab King with a knife. This was not public knowledge. This is how I killed King.

And theres nothing on you really, other than you being quite wrong quite a lot.

i admit i was quite wrong yesterday on vince, but if im not mistaken fouts was right there with me pushing just as hard...as for today, we dont yet know whos wrong...i doubt there is one spawn, and now im leaning towards it being the two of you...i dont have anyone on my back, im not in the absolute trust and i didnt happe to witness any murders suposedly...its sounds suspicious that you two are coming together, but i thoght yesterday sounded bad and i was wrong...but fouts has been proven wrong just as many times as i have...and acutually the second day i was the one that saved penny and got spawn marc to get some votes...what did fouts do?...exactly

[hoopsguy]

If no one is getting lynched today then we could be in for a battle royale this weekend.

Captain Enthusiast, sir, going forward I would suggest conditional suggestions on lynchings any time there is an appearance of a deadlock. The water situation is going to make a bunch of decisions for us anyways.

On the topic of water, I'm going to suggest using this as a strategy to identify spawn. They don't need water to survive. So initially I was thinking that when we got down to it we would alternate between six man teams. But now I'm thinking that we may want to roll the dice with kind of an alternate lynching .... death by dehydration .... for people who seem like 2nd and 3rd best spawn candidates.

[Poli]

Here's the rule:

The Captain may change the person to be executed, regardless of the vote (and even if no one was scheduled to be executed). This triggers a night vote for Mutiny (see Executions – Mutiny above). This order must be sent to the GM at least 30 minutes before the voting deadline and may be conditional (example: If Pete, change execution to Bob, otherwise do not change). 1 point


It sounds like you can't do anything at this point (but it's worth a shot, I guess).
I was referring to the tiebreaker. I don't recall how it worked out, but I had to trust someone.

[Blade6119]

Considering the importance of Blade's role, he has to get scanned tomorrow.

please god do, save me a lot of trouble

[Schmidty]

Crap, I had a personal issue with my daughter and had to take care of her. I haven't read what happened yet, but I'm sorry if I missed the vote. :(

[jeff061]

I guess that's the only possibility of Fouts guilt, if I am spawn as well. I'm not going to entertain that thought. I suppose others can.

The question would be, If I was Spawn wouldn't the real vigilante speak up?

[Blade6119]

I was referring to the tiebreaker. I don't recall how it worked out, but I had to trust someone.

the duke always breaks ties...unfortuntely we didnt get one...im curious ardent, who would you have picked?

[jeff061]

Not to mention I was the first to mention a vigilante could of killed King and all last night I was begging for information on who we would kill next.

[Blade6119]

I guess that's the only possibility of Fouts guilt, if I am spawn as well. I'm not going to entertain that thought. I suppose others can.

The question would be, If I was Spawn wouldn't the real vigilante speak up?

Maybe, maybe not...might be bidding his time to maybe kill one of you or me tonight...no need to tip your hand unless necessary, and it looks like we have all weekend now to decide who between fouts and i is more dangerous

[Blade6119]

Not to mention I was the first to mention a vigilante could of killed King and all last night I was begging for information on who we would kill next.

I honestly dont think your spawn, your defending yourself now and im not attacking you...i think fouts is spawn, but if your backing him up chances are its someone under everyones radar like bug or lathum...i havent heard nigh a peep from lathum since getting promoted, and last game with his fake role reveal he couldnt shut up

[jeff061]

If it meant saving you and incriminating me and Fouts I'd say it would be pretty damn worthwhile to tip your hand.

[saldana]

I honestly dont think your spawn, your defending yourself now and im not attacking you...i think fouts is spawn, but if your backing him up chances are its someone under everyones radar like bug or lathum...i havent heard nigh a peep from lathum since getting promoted, and last game with his fake role reveal he couldnt shut up

i have to defend lathum here, he went to work today around 2 and wont be home until after 2 this morning. as far as his behavior up to that point, i am not saying anything, but he is at work today.

[Schmidty]

It's too late for me to vote, right?

[MrBug708]

I honestly dont think your spawn, your defending yourself now and im not attacking you...i think fouts is spawn, but if your backing him up chances are its someone under everyones radar like bug or lathum...i havent heard nigh a peep from lathum since getting promoted, and last game with his fake role reveal he couldnt shut up

I thought we all decided that quiet doesn't equal guilty. In my mind, you are evil.

[Poli]

Was the first vote a tie? I didn't think it was...I thought I was called due to the amount of votes cast for both parties.

[jeff061]

Like I said, I'm backing that Fouts was spying on King last night, people did not believe him about that which lead to an air of guilt. If there is a reason to assume he's guilty besides him lying about spying I'm all ears about it.

[Blade6119]

If it meant saving you and incriminating me and Fouts I'd say it would be pretty damn worthwhile to tip your hand.

Not sure it would...you two would contest it, the whole camp would divide on who they trust, both of you would be protected and we would lose him killing you guys...it would prob come down to another vote like today or a tie which ardent would coin flip...i dont see how he would be immediately taken at face value...it would be in his best interest to work at night to prove his point, by killnig one of you or me...much easier without innocents protecting you guys after a flame war all day

[Blade6119]

Was the first vote a tie? I didn't think it was...I thought I was called due to the amount of votes cast for both parties.

The first vote was a tie i thought, might be wrong though...ill go back and check

[Raiders Army]

I can only promote a private, and we are out of privates.
I've got a couple of privates for ya.

[Raiders Army]

:eek: :mad:

[Blade6119]

The day ends with a flurish. Accusations are flying left and right. Over the din and confusion almost no one notices King go up to Blade and tell him somthing. But far more people notice that Blade abruptly leaves. He comes back in a few minutes and in a lull in the conversation announces he has just cleaned the brig so that Vince, Raiders Army, dubb, and pennywise can safely (and cleanly!) spend the night there.

Finally night rolls around. The debate has been fierce, and in the end no decision can be made, so the Captain must step in. Who will he kill order to be killed? Will he choose who he voted for, change his mind, or order no one to be killed?

Vote Tally
Marc Vaughan (7) -- Dubb, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Mr Bug, pennywisesb, Raiders Army, Schmidty
Schmidty (7) -- Ardent, hoopsguy, jeff, King, KWhit, Saldana, Vince

it was a 7-7 tie ardent, thats why you stepped in

[Poli]

*kicks coma boy*

[Raiders Army]

*kicks coma boy*
*pisses jumpsuit*

[hoopsguy]

Jeff, since we have some time on our hands - can you construct a case against KWhit beyond your "he's too clean" theory? If so, I would like to see what it would look like.

This weekend is going to give me just enough time to convince myself that every stinking person on this ship with me is a spawn. Sigh.

[Blade6119]

*pisses jumpsuit*

i hope coma boy wakes up soon...i want to kick his ass for toying with me yesterday in the vince vote

[jeff061]

We failed horribly today, assuming no one is killed. I suspect scans will come back clean tomorrow, and we'll be clueless again.

[Raiders Army]

i hope coma boy wakes up soon...i want to kick his ass for toying with me yesterday in the vince vote
*smiles in his sleep*

[Blade6119]

Jeff, since we have some time on our hands - can you construct a case against KWhit beyond your "he's too clean" theory? If so, I would like to see what it would look like.

This weekend is going to give me just enough time to convince myself that every stinking person on this ship with me is a spawn. Sigh.

LOL, hopefully you can trust me after vince scans me tomorrow...im already paranoid about most, espcially after my #1 trust in king got night killed

[KWhit]

Jeff, since we have some time on our hands - can you construct a case against KWhit beyond your "he's too clean" theory? If so, I would like to see what it would look like.

This weekend is going to give me just enough time to convince myself that every stinking person on this ship with me is a spawn. Sigh.
Hehe.

I love that argument. "He's so UNLIKE a spawn that he has to BE a spawn!"

:D

[KWhit]

*pisses jumpsuit*
:D

That's great.

[Blade6119]

Hehe.

I love that argument. "He's so UNLIKE a spawn that he has to BE a spawn!"

:D

Mines better...hes sooo stupid he has to be a spawn...even if fouts made the same accusations he did

[jeff061]

I got no case Hoops, except past experiences and thinking we are looking in all the wrong places. Kwhit's response was also much different than everyone else. I believe he still has skirted around volunteering for a scan.

It's a possibility I think is dangerous to overlook. Penny has scans right? Can we do multiple scans tomorrow?

[Raiders Army]

*wakes for a second*

Who put my hand in the hot water???

*goes back to his coma*

[Blade6119]

i think im most interested in lathum...king did interrogations everyday, and now lathum can...im not sure i trust lathum, and he didnt interrogate at all today... :(

[KWhit]

Dude, scan me all you want. It would be a waste, but whatever blows your hair back.

[jeff061]

I'm not convinced of you Blade, I just have more reason to believe Fouts than you, and someone HAD to go today. I'm not going to be riding you.

[KWhit]

Damn, this thread has a lot of replies! Another couple of days and it will be the biggest in the forum.

[jeff061]

It's a crazy game, a lot of deep involvment by everyone.

[KWhit]

Yeah. This has been a fun one, Barkeep.

[hoopsguy]

Working on a review of the Dub/Vince showdown. Potentially some good stuff here.

Hey, SnDvls - how did you end up allocating phasers? Did you keep them from Schmidty and Fouts tonight as originally stated?

[hoopsguy]

Wow, long run of no one posting. Here comes my review. This review covers the voting from the time the first vote was cast for Dub. This falls after the water comes back kind of 'blah'. I've included some commentary on Fouts and Blade, since they are the two we are looking at right now. This looks worse for Blade at the moment than it does for Fouts, although neither smells like a rose on this day.


Post #838 - I vote for Dub
Post #845 - RealDeal follows with vote for Dub
Post #846 - Pennywise follows with vote for Dub
Post #861 - Lathum votes for Dub
Post #866 - AE switches vote from Penny to Dub
Post #867 - Schmidty votes for Dub after earlier discussion (850-here)
Post #873 - King votes Dub
Post #874 - SnDvls votes Dub
Post #875 - Dub votes RealDeal
Post #884 - Dub suggests RD is Queen or HM
Post #888 - Fouts votes for Vince - exhausted in Brig
Post #890 - Bug votes Dub
Post #893 - Dub unvotes RD
Post #894 - Blade asks if Vince is HM, doesn't understand scientist is worthless in space
Post #902 - SnDvls unvotes Dub
Post #904 - MrW votes Dub
Post #906 - Schmidty unvotes Dub (only trusts AE)
Post #914 - MrW reveals empath role
Post #919 - Blade's post here feels very much like I did when fellow bad guy screwed the pooch - needs a minute to collect himself - wasn't prepared for MrW revelation (my perceptions here, not close to what Blade says)
Post #922 - Penny unvotes Dub
Post #923 - MrW unvotes Dub
Post #934 - King unvotes Dub
Post #939 - Blade says King is gaining his trust. Not uncommon for bad guy to try and chain himself to someone he knows is good
Post #948 - again Blade suggests that Vince may be the hive
Post #955 - Blade says 'don't overlook the importance of protecting the hive'. Joke is on us here, as that is what he is doing
Post #957 - Blade 'that was one of my weaker comments, don't use that in voting" - possibly Dubb just PM'd him and told him to stop being a dumbass?
Post #974 - Blades brig grouping - looking for others to comment
Post #982 - Blade doesn't realize scientist is worthless in space, suggests that doctor can be replaced
Post #985 - King votes Vince
Post #1001 - Fouts posts list who voted for Schmidty - includes Vince but not Dubb
Post #1005 - MrW votes Fouts
Post #1007 - unvotes Fouts (err, he didn't vote for Schmidty)
Post #1017 - Jeff votes Dub (unvoting Penny from very early)
Post #1025 - Saldana votes Dub
Post #1027 - Fouts asks if RA scanned Dub before Vince pulled RA into office
Post #1030 - Schmidty votes Dub
Post #1032 - Dub votes Dub
Post #1035 - Dub doesn't believe anything from Real or Vince
Post #1036 - Fouts is wavering. Convenient with Dub ready to be lynched (8 votes on him, not including his own, 36 minutes until end of voting)
Post #1064 - Vince posts on the RA coma/cure
Post #1089 - King unvotes Vince, votes Dub
Post #1093 - KWhit votes Dub
Post #1095 - Dub says to KWhit - way to have my back, truth will catch up to you and King

[jeff061]

That's about how I remember it. You did remind me about Kwhit's late vote for Dubb, which I had picked up on while I was going through posts to see who I was going to kill. Either was busy in real life or was possibly throwing in a meaningless vote to look good just before the deadline, 5-6 minutes I believe..

[saldana]

i wonder if barkeep is gonna resolve this tonight or sunday?

[Fouts]

Post #1001 - Fouts posts list who voted for Schmidty - includes Vince but not Dubb


Thats because Dubb voted for Marc. I went back to make sure. I love how you post good info and manage to slant it the way you see fit.

BTW, saldana changed his vote late from marc to schmidty to cause the tie. Why is he getting a free ride after that move??

[hoopsguy]

Dubb and KWhit have been kind of interesting - check out Post #517, immediately after the Schmidty vote:

I'm clean, I'm pretty sure KWhit is clean, Schmidty seems adament that he is clean but what about Fouts, Passacaglia, and pennywisesb? One of Pennywise or Passacaglia could have been Spawn b/c the general rule(in my experience) is atleast 3 badguys to start. Only 2 attacked Vince, where was the other one?

Keep in mind, the two that attacked Vince in this case was the spawn attack, not the second attack in the brig.

That, coupled with Dubb's cryptic comment in #1095 about KWhit having his back. Just a weird dynamic between those two when reviewing Dubb's posts.

We now know that the Schmidty/MarcV vote was between a spawn/non-spawn. So it makes sense to review that one more time. Of course, I'm putting myself at some risk of scrutiny here since I voted for Schmidty on that day.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, I prefaced the whole thing by saying I had some of my interpretations in there. In whole, I think you come off looking better than Blade here.

I also include the post numbers so that other people can review it and draw their own conclusions. Having multiple people looking at this type of info should be beneficial, I think. But I'm not inclined to post 100% clinically after I put in significant research time on it. I have opinions as I review the data and I'm going to post them. Just as everyone is entitled to respond to them.

[jeff061]

I'm totally at a loss as to why two spawn voted for Marc in a close vote.

[hoopsguy]

From Post #495

Vote Tally
Marc Vaughan (7) -- Dubb, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Mr Bug, pennywisesb, Raiders Army, Schmidty
Schmidty (7) -- Ardent, hoopsguy, jeff, King, KWhit, Saldana, Vince

Neither Fouts nor Blade have a vote on here. But KWhit does cast the vote for the non-spawn versus the spawn.

Dubb knew that he was voting for a spawn here, since he was the Hive Mind. The other two on the council should have known this as well. I find it hard to believe that multiple members of the Council would have voted in this fashion. This only makes sense if they were trying to spread out their numbers. Or if Dubb just threw the vote out there on Marc early and didn't think it would look good to switch it late. Have to go back and look at the voting order here to try and make sense of this.

But I doubt we will find another member of the Council on this list voting for Marc. I think we are likely to find one on the list for Schmidty.

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing Raiders was not on the spawn council. He didn't know for sure that Dubb was spawn until after his exam.

Raiders pointed out that he was looking at important people during his doctors visits. And clearing them. But instead of trying to help us identify spawn, he was looking for his companions. He would have been able to key future votes off of Dubb after ID'ing him.

[Fouts]

FWIW, when I posted my evidence regarding Vince's vote for Schmidty, I was under the impression he was the tying vote. That was incorrect as Barkeep didn't list them in order. The last two votes were jeff and saldana to tie it up.

[hoopsguy]

Of course, this makes it less likely that the attack on Vince in the brig was coordinated. Unless Dubb was able to issue a conditional order such as:

"I'll join an attack on the doctor if Raiders attacks him"

Thoughts?

[jeff061]

I thought the Marc vote was going way to easy, and there was a little less of a "fuck it" air around the people who voted Schmidty. So I switched.

[jeff061]

Maybe they both sent an unconditional order to attack.

[Fouts]

From Post #495

Vote Tally
Marc Vaughan (7) -- Dubb, Lathum, Mr. Wednesday, Mr Bug, pennywisesb, Raiders Army, Schmidty
Schmidty (7) -- Ardent, hoopsguy, jeff, King, KWhit, Saldana, Vince

Neither Fouts nor Blade have a vote on here. But KWhit does cast the vote for the non-spawn versus the spawn.



Yes, I had to leave for class and we hadn't starting voting yet (post #338). I thought we would do as the first day and not vote anyone for lynching until more info came in.

[Passacaglia]

That, coupled with Dubb's cryptic comment in #1095 about KWhit having his back. Just a weird dynamic between those two when reviewing Dubb's posts.

I don't think we can take much from this. I think dubb was trying to win 'till the end, and wanted us to think about going after KWhit next. If anything, this makes me less suspicious of KWhit.

[hoopsguy]

Order of votes on Marc:
Post #383 - Jeff
Post #385 - Saldana
Post #387 - SnDvls
Post #412 - MrW
Post #418 - MrBug (unvoted Pennywise)
Post #426 - Schmidty
Post #439 - Dubb (?????) 90 minutes before, deciding 7th vote at the time. Schmidty had two votes at this time
Post #447 Lathum
Post #459 - Raiders
Post #460 - KWhit votes for Schmidty
Post #478 - Saldana casts final vote (switch from MarcV to Schmidty), 11 minutes before deadline, just five minutes after Jeff switches

If interested, I can pull the order of votes on Schmidty up as well. I've tried to provide some context in here for when votes took place for Schmidty that were interesting to me.

FWIW, I voted for Schmidty in Post #445. I thought I was 2nd to vote for him but was in fact 3rd as I had missed Vince's vote for him. Tally was 7-3 MarcV vs Schmidty at that point.

[RealDeal]

Part of what has made this challenging is how the spawn have acted so far. Between voting for MV and attacking Vince in the brig, I can't decide if they're too smart for me or too dumb for me.

[jeff061]

Yeah, three nights and it doesn't seem like the spawn have accomplished anything yet, other than being fairly well hidden now.

[RealDeal]

Dola,

Here's what I do know: the single most important role other than Vince right now is probably Blade's. As long as he can put me, pass, AE and Vince in the brig together, Vince is safe, unless AE was somehow converted between his first scan and the time we lifted off, which I think is doubtful since it appears that Vince was attakced both nights.

That means we can put Vince in the brig and know he will be safe, and as long as he is safe, he gets a scan every day cycle. The scan is as good, even better, in fact than a lynching because we don't lose good guys on them.

So Blade has to be the next scan, and Blade needs to put the same four of us in the brig every day until the end. Also, it probably would pay to have someone guard the brig to keep it from being damaged.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I'll start putting a case together against KWhit since Jeff doesn't seem interested in doing it. I'm not saying that KWhit is guilty - I don't know. But I think that he is either a boy scout or an original member of spawn council. I don't think he was an Away Team convert or something like that.

Consider this similar to the scenario I concocted in Village of the Damned about how Coffee Warlord might be a werewolf. That was the night before the wolves killed me. And Eagles/Coffee ended up winning that game. That was pretty annoying :mad:

[hoopsguy]

I'm guessing that if they can't get the doctor and can't convert then they are content to let us die of thirst. Of course, I think that makes more sense if there are only a couple left. If they have any real numbers then I think they would try to go after us and the facilities a little more aggressively.

I really wish I had some feel for how many are left. That hole in my knowledge is making it considerably tougher to try and project how I would play as a spawn in their position. If you can't define their position, it is hard to think like them.

[Blade6119]

Dola,

Here's what I do know: the single most important role other than Vince right now is probably Blade's. As long as he can put me, pass, AE and Vince in the brig together, Vince is safe, unless AE was somehow converted between his first scan and the time we lifted off, which I think is doubtful since it appears that Vince was attakced both nights.

That means we can put Vince in the brig and know he will be safe, and as long as he is safe, he gets a scan every day cycle. The scan is as good, even better, in fact than a lynching because we don't lose good guys on them.

So Blade has to be the next scan, and Blade needs to put the same four of us in the brig every day until the end. Also, it probably would pay to have someone guard the brig to keep it from being damaged.

FYI, you want pass in there from now on and not Mr. W?

[Passacaglia]

Well, hoops, I think you were right about there being more than one spawn -- does that help?

[Passacaglia]

Wow, there are two non-players reading this thread.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, but I would play it totally different if I was one of two spawn left in the game - and we could PM each other - versus being one of three on council and knowing who the other two are that are out there beyond the council.

All in all, this has been a fun game to work through up to this point.

[Barkeep49]

BTW I'm back and have at least 100+ more posts to go to catch up.

[Poli]

Here's the summary. I'm the captain.

[RealDeal]

No, Blade. Keep the same lineup you've been using. Mr. W is fine, also. I trust him and Vince was safe last night. Don't change anything.

[Barkeep49]

I left with the deadline being an absolute deadline. While this might have been different had I been around, I was not, and as the board was clearly up at the time of the vote, I am sticking to that announcement.

The crew has executed someone twice, and twice they have executed a Spawn. However, you would never know it from the moral today. Fear runs rampant through-out the crew. When Vince takes Schmidity into his office for a few hours. Schmidity emerges, having made far less noise than the Captain.

As he hears the call of the gallows, Blade posts what he thinks might be his last list of people placed in protective custody: Vince, Realdeal, Mr W, and Ardent.

In the end the crew hems and haws. At the last moment the crew seems to remember the bloodlust it felt the last two days and decides that a kill, any kill, is better then nothing. However, they just can't work up enough fervor and people begin to disperse to try to go to bed. Penny tries to fire things back up, but too many people have already left the area for anyone to feel like there should be a killing today. And so there is no execution today.

Final Tally:
Blade (5) -- Fouts, jeff, Kwhit, mrbug, sndvls
Fouts (3) -- hoops, realdeal, saldana

[Bek]

thats no good...where does this leave us now?

[hoopsguy]

With an extra mouth to drink water. Seriously, it leaves us with a lot of time for good discussion before the next cycle.

[Barkeep49]

Ok to answer a few questions:

Blade has indeed been trying to find out if he could spy. With my time limitations today I had not had time to give him a response, but the answer is that only the security crewmen and security chief may spy.

Which brings me to my next point. Spy and protect are very limited actions. There has been some public and private grumbling about this. Grumbling is fair enough. Spying will tell you the night actions of the person you are spying on. That is it. However, it does so with 100% accuracy (no dice roll done) and so if the right person is followed around it will result in a damaging action report. Protect, likewise, is just protection. The person you are protecting might not want to be protected and can lose your "cover", perhaps without you even knowing it, and preform night actions.

As for why you can't see your attacker, this too has recieved a few grumblings. The in-game answer is because the Spawn have psychic powers which can shroud your memory. The out of game answer is that it balances things better. Don't forget that this game has many more times the bodyguards of any other spawn game and even in THOSE games typically the bodyguard doesn't find out who the attackers are if the defense is successful.

Finally for the 5 of your who don't know your secret roles, as I write this post, I'm sorry. This number will likely continue to go down and if anyone dies before finding out their secret role, I will gladly tell them posthumously.

I think that answers all of the questions for me today.

Night actions are due by MONDAY at 9 AM

[Bek]

What is the water supply at anyways...never thought about having that extra mouth that needs water...damn we really screwed up tonight

[Poli]

Ahem. I ordered Vince to drug Blade. :)

[Barkeep49]

Oh yes. Please do not post my PMs. While 95% of them are unique (thus preventing a situation like in Peregrine's game), they are written for your eyes only.

[Poli]

Well, drug Blade then. ;)

[Blade6119]

i can say this, i was just told my private role, and its the one where i find out the secret rule of someone who voted for me...i dont know who, but one of the 5 who voted for me is uncorruptible...

[Barkeep49]

What is the water supply at anyways...never thought about having that extra mouth that needs water...damn we really screwed up tonight
Before going to sleep Bek goes to the water plant and checks the supply level. It is at 6.25 units. Current rate of consumption is 4.5 units a day with 1.5 new units being added for a current net loss of 3 units per day.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, in post #1202 you say that Saldana is definitely clean. Why? Jeff, you second this thought in post #1206. Again, why?

[hoopsguy]

Dola -- If there is no galleymaster, or the galleymaster does not send in a list for water distribution, water is given out randomly.

That is from post #1247. I'm hoping that our security personnel will consider hanging out with me to try and prevent this from happening. My night actions will always be either sleep or guard the water.

Did Schmidty ever get a phaser after he was cleared by Vince? Did Fouts ever get a phaser?

[Schmidty]

As far as I know, I still don't have a phaser, and have no idea what I should do tonight because of it.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Sorry about not getting in a vote today... I checked in around 2 pm EST and everything was still in flux, so I was sure a vote would be premature. I was then unable to check in again until well after votes were due, thanks to getting things packed up. The good news is, I should be around a bit on Monday, and I'll make every effort to be able to cast an informed vote.

[hoopsguy]

OK, here is my best effort to paint KWhit as evil. Going through 1500 posts like this takes forever :(

This is also the first game I've played with KWhit - is this his first werewolf game? For those who have played with him before, is he playing in a manner consistent with other games?


Post #148 - leads an away team with Dubb and the privates. Cackling all the way that he and scienist are on all of these, no way that we are getting water. Maybe 50/50 that Marc is spawn at this point (maybe converted by 10% away team rule)

Post #181 - Dubbs says there are two logical people to get water. Kwhit, since he is leading mission to get water (huh?) and me since I protect water at night. Very possibly a lack of understanding early in game about mechanics, but another instance where the Hive Mind connects with KWhit

Full disclosure post - #192 Dubbs re-iterates that I should be armed with a phaser

Post #219 - KWhit suspicious of Bek (no action) and RealDeal (not ordering action). At this time RealDeal appears to be solid based on backing of Vince.

Post #317 - KWhit suspicious of three newcomers on mission - Fouts, Schmidty, and me. I know I'm not spawn (obviously everyone else does not know and must draw own conclusions). We know from Vince today that Schmidty is not spawn. Fouts? Don't know one way or the other yet

Post #319 - Dubb points out that KWhit and Marc accompany him on all Away Teams, are equally valid candidates to scan. This post does not help an argument of KWhit as council spawn

Post #321/322 - KWhit and Dubb discuss exhaustion as possible reason for bad haul of water on Away Team #2

Post #460 - votes for Schmidty, total is something like 9-4 MarcV/Schmidty at this point. Trying to save a spawn? Trying to split votes from Dubb? Not sure of motivation, but it is a late vote (26 mins before deadline). Certainly not shaping the voting process ...

Post #461 - welcomes an exam at this point - this changes later

Post #517 - Dubb says KWhit is clean

Post #535 - Tells spawn not to come after him at night. Always amusing talking to the enemy when you are the enemy

Post #537 - Tells us to guard engine room and water supply. But spawn are not attacking there, they are attacking Vince in the Brig (what did the Queen do on this evening?)

Post #582 - KWhit happy to be examined unless someone else comes forward about being attacked (if spawn, he knows there will be people in brig that are suspects later on this day)

Post #605 - argues for the big away team mission. Tough to criticize this, but if he is spawn then he knows he can bring multiple targets along to sabotage with less chance of them being targeted

Post #805 - plants idea that Vince could have been infected, also a spawn

Post #813 - very possible for Dubb to be spawn, also suspicious of Vince

Post #817 - cautiously going along with consensus opinions at the time

Post #841 - continuing to ask questions about Vince. Remember, spawn know what happened and would want to protect Dubb here by generating FUD

Post #844 - keeping Penny in the conversation with Dubb/Vince. About four hours before voting, still plenty of time to save Dubb

Post #853 - Dubb as conversion target (not Hive)

Post #872 - Dubb = spawn explains problem with away missions. Has nothing to do with KWhit faking the planning on them

Post #880 - Dubb makes great points, but we want to trust doc

Post #881 - out/AFK (makes sense, end of work day)

Post #1093 - KWhit puts a vote on Dubb five minutes before deadline, no way to save him at that point

Post #1095 - Dubb, knows he is dead, says in response to KWhit 'Way to have my back, the truth will catch up to you and King sooner or later'. King is not spawn - does he want to call out two non-spawn here? Perhaps he is trying to put focus on King here, which is where many of us were headed? Who knows, but this needs to be evaluated. Spawn did not kill King, vigilante did per evidence today.

Post #1150 - Kwhit asks to protect water and him. Water was threatened that night.

Post #1231 - KWhit thinks there may have been other reasons that Fouts seemed spawn-like

Post #1262 - KWhit asks for Schmidty scan. Consistent with group, but good for spawn when a non-spawn is scanned

Post #1269 - KWhit has Penny high on list of trusted crewmates. But Vince still does not trust him (attacked by 2 or 3 in brig?)

Post #1297 - KWhit, responding to questions from Jeff (Fozziephobia), says 'I'm as clean as they get'

Post #1316 - KWhit says that he does not trust Saldana, but trusts Schmidty (before afternoon scan)

Post #1323 - RealDeal is OK, again does not trust Saldana

Post #1334 - scanning him is a wasted scan. Only Jeff suspects, no reasons given

Post #1403 - KWhit wonders why Pass thinks Saldana is clean (re-post of Fouts question)

Post #1417 - doesn't know who to vote for, but we need to kill someone

Post #1420 - leaning towards Saldana, may need to join a bandwagon to ensure kill

Post #1426 - KWhit is again saying he is protected tonight, don't come after him

Post #1442 - wants a lynching tonight (makes a lot of sense)

Post #1451 - votes Blade with two minutes left, but not enough votes to matter.

Post #1472 - hate to lose warden (Blade) on semi-random vote. Just wanted us to get someone today

[Mr. Wednesday]

I recall playing with KWhit in the first mafia game, as he, MrBug, and I were in one of the families. I have no idea how he usually plays, though, because he got killed in the first night.

[kingfc22]

I killed King.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Vince]

It's been said a bunch of times already, but we really need to lynch someone every day, if only to conserve water for those of us left. There are plenty of other reasons, but you guys all know how important this is.

My availability may be spotty over the weekend -- I have a UCSB Alumni event tomorrow afternoon, work tomorrow night, and then being quite drunk while watching football all day Sunday :) I'll be on when I can, no doubt, it just might not be much (how's that been different from all week, Vince? Shut up, smartass :)).

[Raiders Army]

Wake me up before you go go.

[hoopsguy]

I've got a few commitments this weekend as well, so there will be some large blocks of time where I'm not around.

[Passacaglia]

Hey guys -- sorry about that. I think the post is a very short one, but I spied on saldana. He didn't leave his room -- that's enough for me to believe he's not spawn. I don't know what the spawn did, but it had to be something.

Night actions are due in half an hour, correct?

[Passacaglia]

Never mind, I see they're due Monday morning.

[Poli]

I have no problem with Kwhit being examined.

[Blade6119]

I have no problem with Kwhit being examined.

I do, examine me...otherwise ill be defending myself all day

[jeff061]

Pass, in post #1202 you say that Saldana is definitely clean. Why? Jeff, you second this thought in post #1206. Again, why?

Early in the morning following King's death he seemed to think the Spawn killed King, and when I went over his posts the night I was deciding to kill I came away with the impression that he was clean.

[KWhit]

For the record, I tend to vote late because I like to argue points and hear counter arguments before I vote. I was pushing for a vote for Dubb way before I actually voted and I think I convinced some people to vote for him. Just doesn't make sense for me to be spawn.

But just to prove it, I'll order a short scan of myself for the next day cycle on Monday (assuming I'm not attacked and killed tonight). It will be a wasted scan, but that's better than a wasted vote at this point.

[SnDvls]

That is from post #1247. I'm hoping that our security personnel will consider hanging out with me to try and prevent this from happening. My night actions will always be either sleep or guard the water.

Did Schmidty ever get a phaser after he was cleared by Vince? Did Fouts ever get a phaser?


I can only do 1 pass out of phasers so Fouts & Schmity do not have phasers for tonight's actions, however they still can protect.

I can only do 1 pass out and with the questions around them I had to make a choice prior to Vince coming on and clearing Schmidty.

We really need to get Vince to clear someone earlier so we can all get on the same page.

I now trust them both and once day comes again they will be on the list, however Vince needs to do his role prior to me passing them out again. Hint Hint

[Vince]

Ok guys -- time to start pooling our resources and using what knowlege we have to our advantage. I know we have at least one instance left of a 'weapon,' and I'd hate to see someone become a target because of it. It may be time to weigh the pros of 'value later in the game' against 'opportunity cost of dying before using it.'

I think the top priorities of the Spawn are going to be attacking the water supply, and picking off important members of the crew. If I'm in the brig, I don't think they can afford to keep 'wasting' their efforts trying to get at me -- unless a spawn has been laying low, and IS in the brig with me...but even then, they might be at the point where they can't afford to attack inside the brig because there aren't any of them left. If I were a spawn, I'd assume that the Water supply is going to be protected at all costs, so I'd fall back to sniping at major crewmembers.

Just my thoughts at the moment.

[jeff061]

I think if there are two left they will go after the water supply, if there is one left they will wait us out and watch us dehydrate. I don't see them attacking you for reasons stated, though they may get desperate if they have two and one is indeed lying low in the brig. The only other crewmember they may kill is Blade. Other than that I suspect they are not going to want to kill somoene who otherwise needs a sip of water, and also narrows down the list of possible suspects.

[saldana]

i dont know about anyone else, but it would be very helpful if we had a summation of who has been scanned or spied upon and is considered "clear" so we could make more educated choices on votes, so we dont end up with a situation like we had last night

as far as how many spawn are left, i think there are at least 2...i dont think barkeep would have made the spawn council of 3 without starting the game with at least that many bad guys. since one of them has to be the hive mind, i would think that marc was a convert from the away mission, leaving us with the hive mind and at least one other spawn that started the game.

[Blade6119]

i think the spawn will lie low until we all die from thirst....but if not the only reasonable targets i see right now are vince, me, and the water supply..vince for his scans, me for the brig, and water so we die quicker...but i think risking an attack where someone might see who they are is kinda stupid right now, so i bet they will lie low...

Kwhit, dont order a scan on yourself, your doing that because you are looking after yourself and not the team...let the weekend go, see who makes a mistake, and if not vince will make a solid decision on who to scan...hes doing well so far

[hoopsguy]

Wow, was hoping for a little more activity today. Guess other people are busy having lives this weekend as well.

I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that Raiders is going to come out of his coma. But that hope will be effectively snuffed if he isn't with us Monday morning.

I'm concerned about my safety as well, since water will be randomly allocated if I'm out of the mix, per Barkeep. I was hoping that one of the senior officers could ration water if I'm no longer with us, but that does not appear to be the case.

So I'm wondering what roles have been revealed up to this point? Here is what I've seen:
RealDeal - duplicant
MrWednesday - empathic
Blade - gut feeling
Ardent - miracle worker
Jeff - vigilante

Not verified:
Light Sleeper - seems very useful
Slayer - seems very useful
Incorruptible - doesn't seem valuable at this time, since it is tied to away team
Absolute Trust - doesn't seem valuable, since spawn are now only able to kill, not convert

Has anyone gotten news about being in an AT group? If so, do they know how many people are in this group? Based on the description "the other group members" it sounds like this is at least three people.

Upon re-reading the spawn descriptions, it is now clear to me that all spawn know who is the Hive. I had thought the Hive knew all, but did not realize that all spawn knew who the Hive was as well.

Is everyone convinced that Doctor Vince is still on our side? If somehow he became infected during the Raiders exam then he would be a real bitch for us to ID going forward. I'm not suggesting we put the screws to him at this point in time, but somewhere down the line it might serve our interests to 100% clear him (again, I know) by targeting someone he has cleared. Schmidty, I'm sure that this sounds like I have some kind of vendetta against you (since you are the only one here that he has cleared at present time), but that is not the case. Vince will clear other people between now and the time I think we have to explore this option. The game is much easier to play if we accept that the doctor is a force for good. Since the queen can no longer infect, the only way the doctor would be working against us (post RealDeal clearing as duplicant) is if he is infected while reviewing a spawn. And we have no idea what the percentages are on that dice roll.

For night actions, I think we have to guard the water supply, Blade, and me. I know that some of our security team doesn't have phasers tonight. I think it is about a 50/50 call on guarding without phasers, and possibly sacrificing their lives to protect a critical resource, versus resting tonight and being able to guard going forward with a weapon and not being exhausted. I would like to hear your thoughts on this, although I'm not looking for any kind of commitment in the thread on what your secret actions are going to be.

[Blade6119]

i know at least one person in the absolute trust, and i believe i know 2 others, might be more though...as well, the incorruptible person is one of the ones who voted for me yesterday, so that narrows it down...but im 99% on at least three in the trust

[hoopsguy]

Then that leaves Fouts, KWhit, MrBug, and SnDvls for the private role of incorruptible, assuming both Jeff and Blade are telling the truth about their roles.

[saldana]

Then that leaves Fouts, KWhit, MrBug, and SnDvls for the private role of incorruptible, assuming both Jeff and Blade are telling the truth about their roles.
this is assuming that there is only one person with each trait, for instance, there could be 3 or 4 people with resistant or light sleeper.

[MrBug708]

Then that leaves Fouts, KWhit, MrBug, and SnDvls for the private role of incorruptible, assuming both Jeff and Blade are telling the truth about their roles.

Sadly I don't know anything about my role thus far :(

[KWhit]

Kwhit, dont order a scan on yourself, your doing that because you are looking after yourself and not the team...
Umm.... When I responded in a way that was looking after the team ("Don't scan me. It's a waste.") I was suddenly a suspect. So we'll see what happens on Monday, but it looks like I'll have to be scanned.

[Blade6119]

this is assuming that there is only one person with each trait, for instance, there could be 3 or 4 people with resistant or light sleeper.

Actually, i believe whole heartedly outside of absolute trust everyone has a unique role...the numbers might work, depending on the size of the trust...But what i would like to know is who hasnt claimed a private role yet, as right before he told me he(barkeep) said there were 5 that didnt know yet...with me thats 4...so a lot of people are lying about not knowing their rle

[Poli]

Don't take offense to it, #1. Your butt only hurts for a little bit.

[Blade6119]

Umm.... When I responded in a way that was looking after the team ("Don't scan me. It's a waste.") I was suddenly a suspect. So we'll see what happens on Monday, but it looks like I'll have to be scanned.

Ive been saying i trust you, but your not the top suspect right now...actually, i almost feel everyone is open to suspicion right now...i just dont see you doing much for the team, kinda just sitting there whinin
:p

[Schmidty]

Wow, was hoping for a little more activity today. Guess other people are busy having lives this weekend as well.

I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that Raiders is going to come out of his coma. But that hope will be effectively snuffed if he isn't with us Monday morning.

I'm concerned about my safety as well, since water will be randomly allocated if I'm out of the mix, per Barkeep. I was hoping that one of the senior officers could ration water if I'm no longer with us, but that does not appear to be the case.

So I'm wondering what roles have been revealed up to this point? Here is what I've seen:
RealDeal - duplicant
MrWednesday - empathic
Blade - gut feeling
Ardent - miracle worker
Jeff - vigilante

Not verified:
Light Sleeper - seems very useful
Slayer - seems very useful
Incorruptible - doesn't seem valuable at this time, since it is tied to away team
Absolute Trust - doesn't seem valuable, since spawn are now only able to kill, not convert

Has anyone gotten news about being in an AT group? If so, do they know how many people are in this group? Based on the description "the other group members" it sounds like this is at least three people.

Upon re-reading the spawn descriptions, it is now clear to me that all spawn know who is the Hive. I had thought the Hive knew all, but did not realize that all spawn knew who the Hive was as well.

Is everyone convinced that Doctor Vince is still on our side? If somehow he became infected during the Raiders exam then he would be a real bitch for us to ID going forward. I'm not suggesting we put the screws to him at this point in time, but somewhere down the line it might serve our interests to 100% clear him (again, I know) by targeting someone he has cleared. Schmidty, I'm sure that this sounds like I have some kind of vendetta against you (since you are the only one here that he has cleared at present time), but that is not the case. Vince will clear other people between now and the time I think we have to explore this option. The game is much easier to play if we accept that the doctor is a force for good. Since the queen can no longer infect, the only way the doctor would be working against us (post RealDeal clearing as duplicant) is if he is infected while reviewing a spawn. And we have no idea what the percentages are on that dice roll.

For night actions, I think we have to guard the water supply, Blade, and me. I know that some of our security team doesn't have phasers tonight. I think it is about a 50/50 call on guarding without phasers, and possibly sacrificing their lives to protect a critical resource, versus resting tonight and being able to guard going forward with a weapon and not being exhausted. I would like to hear your thoughts on this, although I'm not looking for any kind of commitment in the thread on what your secret actions are going to be.

I think you're overthinking again, Chief Rum....

Anyway, I don't know what else to do to prove that I'm not a spawn. If you want to lynch me that badly, just do it. I think you should do something useful though, and come up with an idea who the actual spawn are, instead coming up with elaborate theories with no real answer. We don't need anymore shots in the dark.

[Passacaglia]

hoops, did you say Vince cleared Schmidty? I don't remember that happening. And, sorry I haven't been very active today -- I'm on a very slow dial-up connection, and college football calls!

Anyway, here are the people in my circle of trust, FWIW:

Me -- duh
RealDeal -- scanned me and cleared me
Vince -- was scanned by RealDeal
MrW -- corroborated Vince's story, which we know to be true
saldana -- Didn't do anything when I spied on him last night
Scmidty -- cleared by Vince?

That's all I've got now.

[jeff061]

Schmidty, I think you are a black hole of help ;).

[jeff061]

And yes, I believe Schmidty was cleared by Vince yesterday.

[Poli]

hoops, did you say Vince cleared Schmidty? I don't remember that happening. And, sorry I haven't been very active today -- I'm on a very slow dial-up connection, and college football calls!

Anyway, here are the people in my circle of trust, FWIW:

Me -- duh
RealDeal -- scanned me and cleared me
Vince -- was scanned by RealDeal
MrW -- corroborated Vince's story, which we know to be true
saldana -- Didn't do anything when I spied on him last night
Scmidty -- cleared by Vince?

That's all I've got now.
Walk the plank.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty, I think you are a black hole of help ;).

You're probably right. I keep telling people that I suck at this game. :)

[hoopsguy]

Schmidty, I realize that this thought process sucks for you, particularly after you have been through one close vote and heavy suspicion on another day. I'm not pushing for us to do it tomorrow. But I'm wondering if other people think that it is a stone cold lock that the doctor continues to work for our side. If everyone seems to think this then I'll stop wasting cycles here.

I would propose that Vince scan me tomorrow and then kill me as a way of proving that I'm not trying to cause you (in particular) harm with this thought process. However, there are two problems with that theory:
1.) If Vince is a spawn, he knows we are pondering this now and it might modify his actions
2.) If I die then water is allocated randomly

Schmidty, help me keep it simple. Where should we be looking for spawn? Since Vince cleared you then you should be a trusted figure for all of us. The people who are trusted should have a louder voice in governing our actions.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so do people think that the Queen would have attempted a spawn attack every night that there was an opportunity to do so?

Here is the chronology, as best as I can map it out
Night 1 - attacked Vince
Night 2 - ???
Day 3 - we are in the air

Perhaps this is helpful in figuring out how many spawn we are facing.
Known Spawn - Raiders (cured, but coma), Dubb (Hive Mind), Marc (original or Away Team victim?)
Known Remaining Spawn - Queen

Barkeep, would Vince have known if Raiders was the Queen when he did the exam?

Barkeep, if a crew member is converted do they retain their private role? Or is it lost at that time? I think this is pretty important in terms of people claiming private roles.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, would Vince have known if Raiders was the Queen when he did the exam?

Barkeep, if a crew member is converted do they retain their private role? Or is it lost at that time? I think this is pretty important in terms of people claiming private roles.

Vice would know have known if he had cured the Spawn Queen. The two head Spawn look different.

The only role which a crew member can keep if converted is Empath and that is 50/50. Anything else is lost. Therefore, it's possible for a person to be converted and never know their private role.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, at this point, I'm inclined to trust EVERYONE. So I'm looking at someone quiet, not simply because they've been quiet, but because I feel like everyone else is pretty much clear. So, uh, who's been quiet?

[hoopsguy]

OK, on Night 2 Vince was attacked in the Brig by 2-3 assailants. There were two spawn in there with him - Raiders and Dubb. At this point people seem to have largely assumed that there were only two spawn, not three, attacking because King set the group and King was a survivor. Seems pretty unbelievable that King would have set three spawn in the room with Vince. However, neither of the two identified spawn in the brig were the queen.

If there were only three spawn at this time (Marc was dead, anyone that was infected on the away mission would still be spawnling) then would the queen have not attempted a spawn attack solo? If there were multiple spawn not in the brig, I have to believe that the queen would have attempted a spawn attack as long as there were no restrictions on doing this multiple nights in a row (did not see any in the rules).

So I think there is a pretty decent chance that a spawn emerged from the away team missions, or a spawn attack on night 2 that we do not know about at this time.

If I had to take a wild guess, I would say we are still battling 2-3 spawn right now.

[hoopsguy]

Here is a map of the private roles, along with the days revealed, from what I have collected in my notes. I've listed the role and the date which they revealed their role.

Captain - ardent enthusiast -- Miracle Worker (Day 3)
First Officer - KWhit -- ????
Second Officer - RealDeal -- Duplicant (Day 3)
Security Chief - Lathum -- ????

Engineers
Saldana -- ????
Mr.Wednesday -- Empathic (Day 3)
MrBug708 -- ????
jeff061 -- Vigilante (Day 4)
Bek -- ????

Medical Staff
Doctor - Vince -- ????
Nurse - Raiders Army Spawn/Coma
Medic - pennywisesb -- ????

Security Staff
Sergeant at Arms - sndlvs ????

Warden - Blade6119 -- Gut feeling (Post Day 4)
Galley Master - hoopsguy ???? (no role revealed to me yet)
Security Crewman - Fouts ????
Security Crewman - Schmidty ????
Security Crewman - Passacaglia ????


Deceased
Marc Vaughan Executed Day 2 (Spawn)
Dubb93 Executed Day 3 (Hive Mind)
Kingfc22 Killed Night 3 (Survivor)

[hoopsguy]

As far as quiet guys, take a look at the list above and work from there to figure out who has been active/quiet. Not trying to be unhelpful here, but people have different definitions of what is considered active vs quiet.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, can you verify that the Warden is required in order for us to place people in the Brig? And that the Galleymaster is required in order to ration water rather than distribute randomly?

Also, it says that the Security HQ must be undamaged during the day for the warden to use his powers. If it is damaged during the night shift, then can daytime repairs by the engineers make this usable for that evening? In other words, does the Security HQ require that there is no damage at the start of the day, or no damage by the time we move people there at the end of the day?

Assuming that Barkeep confirms that we need both Blade and I to play those roles, then I think we have four things to consider guarding - the two people and the two buildings. Probably with the people taking priority before the buildings, since the buildings can be repaired but the people cannot be brought back to life. Does anyone else see anything else that should be protected at this time?

[pennywisesb]

Sorry I've been out all day guys, but charter was out around here until about 30 minutes ago so I wasn't able to even get board access from my house. I should be on and off tonight and tomorrow though.

[Raiders Army]

Okay, at this point, I'm inclined to trust EVERYONE. So I'm looking at someone quiet, not simply because they've been quiet, but because I feel like everyone else is pretty much clear. So, uh, who's been quiet?
I've been quiet.

[Vince]

Hoops -- wow...great analysis. I like everything you've said. Keep your eyes open -- if I do become converted, I will be an incredible asset to their side, and nearly impossible to track. Other than that...I don't really know what to say. If there's anything more I can do to convince you that I am clean, please let me know. I don't think your plan of scanning you and then voting to kill you is very good because quite frankly -- I don't want you to die. You might be one of the most important people we have left, if only by virtue of your analysis.

As for now, if you would like me to scan you, I'd be happy to -- I think we have many more desirable targets for my scan, however.

I'm still leery of Pennywisesb -- I voted for him yesterday (though it was never tallied -- color added to emphasize so Barkeep notices), and have for the last two days of game time. I'm still not sure he's clean. Though the odds of there being three Spawn locked in the brig with me are astronomical, ridiculous odds don't an airtight case make. I also still think the best way to handle him is by a lynch. Can anyone else make a case for why we should lynch someone different? Lynching is a definite kill, and we lose that person's role forever. Losing Pennywisesb's minor healing ability (which I can still accomplish as the doctor) seems like a relatively small blow. My scan, however, will (for the most part...RA was a special case, I still believe) allow us to keep the scanned person's role -- and I think that lynching (and losing the ability of) pennywisesb is better than losing, say, KWhit (picking someone at complete random here).

I think I also remember AE saying that he ordered me to Drug Blade. I'll be happy to, but since that wasn't in my role description, it leads me to believe that RA's coma is a special case, and not something I can duplicate. I think it might upset the balance of the game if I can just start putting everyone into a coma :)

[Blade6119]

I think I also remember AE saying that he ordered me to Drug Blade. I'll be happy to :)

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[hoopsguy]

If it is game mechanics that every time a spawn is cured they are placed in a coma - I think we would see this if we are lucky enough to cure another one - then I think we will quickly become compelled to kill them off as well so they don't consume water. Don't like it, but I'm not a fan of active crewmembers dying of thirst either.

Vince, I really don't think that you are spawn. More importantly, I hope like crazy that you are not spawn via infection while working on Raiders. Because the game gets really hard at that point. I'm fine with you scanning me, but I would prefer not to be a sacrifice. I put that scenario out there to try and demonstrate that I'm not somehow gunning for Schmidty. If I was making a move as a spawn, I think that it would be pretty reckless to try and cast doubt on a guy who was just cleared by a doctor when there are so many other people that would be easier to go after.

[pennywisesb]

I'm still leery of Pennywisesb -- I voted for him yesterday (though it was never tallied -- color added to emphasize so Barkeep notices), and have for the last two days of game time. I'm still not sure he's clean. Though the odds of there being three Spawn locked in the brig with me are astronomical, ridiculous odds don't an airtight case make. I also still think the best way to handle him is by a lynch. Can anyone else make a case for why we should lynch someone different? Lynching is a definite kill, and we lose that person's role forever. Losing Pennywisesb's minor healing ability (which I can still accomplish as the doctor) seems like a relatively small blow. My scan, however, will (for the most part...RA was a special case, I still believe) allow us to keep the scanned person's role -- and I think that lynching (and losing the ability of) pennywisesb is better than losing, say, KWhit (picking someone at complete random here).


Apparently Vince has some kind of vendetta against me. This is like the third time he's tried to rally people behind him to vote for me and to be quite frank, I at first thought be was clean once RA and Dubb were proven to be spawn, but at this point because he's so adament on killing an innocent person I'm becoming quite suspicious of him at this point. Maybe RA did infect him or something, who knows?

At this point if he's targeting me just because I'm a minor role, I'm not the only minor role in this game. THe fact that he still thinks that there could have been 3 spawn in the brig in one night with him is just completely unreasonable because all of us were put there by someone who was NOT spawn. The odds are so astronomical against 3 of the 4 being randomly picked to be spawn.

By the way, other than him, I'm the only one with any kind of healing power at this point, so if he's not spawn, and the spawn decide to target him, I'm the only one left who can do anything (unless RA miraculously comes out of his coma). Which is another reason I'm wondering why he's so quick to try to get me lynched.

His arguments are getting stale if you ask me.

[pennywisesb]

I also just read this about my role:
Medic (1 AP per cycle)
There is a very good chance that if the Nurse dies that the medic will become the nurse. This will take one day (but the Medic will still be able to perform medic duty during that day).

So, if RA dies, I can be promoted to Nurse which can be very valuable because then we can go back to examining multiple persons per day.

[jeff061]

That coupled with him taking up water, I think it may be worthwhile voting out Raiders. Personally, I'm pretty confident that he's spawn and agree with the idea that was brought up about him being in a coma because he knows the identity of the other spawn.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, can you verify that the Warden is required in order for us to place people in the Brig? And that the Galleymaster is required in order to ration water rather than distribute randomly?
This is true. These roles must be filled in order to use the brig (Warden) or distribute water in a systematic way (Galleymaster).

Also, it says that the Security HQ must be undamaged during the day for the warden to use his powers. If it is damaged during the night shift, then can daytime repairs by the engineers make this usable for that evening? In other words, does the Security HQ require that there is no damage at the start of the day, or no damage by the time we move people there at the end of the day?

So I've been thinking about this and I'm torn. In the end I wrote it this way so that the Spawn would have a reason to attack the Security HQ, otherwise it's easily repaired and there is no reason for the Spawn to waste an attack on it. So in-game the explanation is that the Warden must prepare the Brig for people to sleep in it, and is unable to do so if the Security HQ is damaged.

[Fouts]

I don't have much to add. I think either 2-4 people are connected and clearing each other, or we have 1 guy laying low. Gonna need some help on this one.

[kingfc22]

boo

[Vince]

I don't have much to add. I think either 2-4 people are connected and clearing each other, or we have 1 guy laying low. Gonna need some help on this one. I am wasted. I was going to post some thoughts, but I am way too drunk to even try. Josh, Dan says what's up :)

[Poli]

Word.

[Barkeep49]

Just a reminder that night actions are due by tomorrow at 9 AM. I am missing several from people I was expecting to recieve some from.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so why would Dubb have cast a vote for Marc over Schmidty early in the game? We still don't have an answer on this, since Schmidty has been cleared. I'm pretty sure they would not have done this if 1.) Marc was on the spawn council, unless they wanted someone who had more regular hours (US times, anyways) for communication or 2.) they had quite a few spawn - think that would be at least four at that point, maybe five.

So, lets take the role of a spawn that is not on the council. They know that Dubb is the hive, but don't have any other information to work off of in terms of their vote. If there is a close vote, they would like to follow him since Dubb should steer them the right way in terms of a vote. To the best of my knowledge, they can't talk to Dubb so there cannot be a coordinated effort. If you were in that position, not knowing who any of the spawn are, would you follow the one person who you know is on your side or dump the vote someplace else?

Post #439 - Dubb votes for Marc (7th vote, enough to lynch)
Post #447 - Lathum casts a vote for Marc

Lathum has been pretty quiet most of this game. I've only played one game with him, and he was pretty vocal when he was falsely accused. But I haven't played with him beyond that so I don't know how he plays when on the side of the good guys.

[hoopsguy]

Also, Raiders changed his vote to Marc at Post #459 (after initially voting Jeff), but it seems like we have a pretty good feel for his role at this point.

Jeff and Saldana changed votes from Marc to Schmidty after the Dubb vote. That would not be consistent with member spawn, based on my thougths in the previous post.

[Barkeep49]

For some reason last night seemed longer than all of your other nights. Perhaps it is just the stress taking its toll. Who knows?

What you do know is there were far more people in their bunks than there had been previous nights. Schmidty and hoopsguy were at the water plant ready for the Spawn to try and take advantage of what some in the crew thinks is their weakest point. While they were there SnDvls was spending an uneventful night at the Security Headquarters. They think about how they were hard at work while Fouts was just standing outside of the crew quarters the whole night. But that's most likely them just being cranky more than anything else.

Ship’s Status

Room Reports
Engineering – Fully Operational
Water Plant – Fully Operational
Water Supply – 3.25 units (Enough for less than one day with the current crew size)
Security Headquarters Fully Operational
Brig – Empty
Weapons Locker – 6 phasers

Crew Status

Command Staff
Captain - ardent enthusiast
First Officer - KWhit
Second Officer - RealDeal
Security Chief - Lathum

Engineers
Saldana
Mr.Wednesday
MrBug708
jeff061
Bek EXHAUSTED

Medical Staff
Doctor - Vince
Nurse - Raiders Army COMA
Medic - pennywisesb

Security Staff
Sergeant at Arms - sndlvs EXHAUSTED
Warden - Blade6119
Galley Master - hoopsguy EXHAUSTED
Security Crewman - Fouts EXHAUSTED
Security Crewman - Schmidty EXHAUSTED
Security Crewman - Passacaglia

Deceased
Marc Vaughan Executed Day 2 (Spawn)
Dubb93 Executed Day 3 (Hive Mind)
Kingfc22 Killed Night 3 (Survivor)

[hoopsguy]

I was attacked by a single spawn last night. I was the target, not the water supply. I believe that I successfully fended it off.

Since I don't believe that the spawn can launch a spawnling attack at this point in time I don't think I would need to volunteer for an exam today. But I'm happy to take one whenever anyone sees fit to review me.

Also, we are now at a point where we will need to ration water. So I'm looking for feedback from people on how we should go about allocating our resources. We have enough water for thirteen people today.

[Blade6119]

I was attacked by a single spawn last night. I was the target, not the water supply. I believe that I successfully fended it off.

Since I don't believe that the spawn can launch a spawnling attack at this point in time I don't think I would need to volunteer for an exam today. But I'm happy to take one whenever anyone sees fit to review me.

Also, we are now at a point where we will need to ration water. So I'm looking for feedback from people on how we should go about allocating our resources. We have enough water for thirteen people today.

Question is do we take that number and cut it in half or quarter and only give water to trusted people...that could dictate whos bad by who survives...barbaric, but might work...

[hoopsguy]

Also, my understanding is that Schmidty and I were on shifts guarding the water supply. I was asleep out of his site. I was awakened during the attack. It was strongly indicated that I am not a light sleeper. The fact that I was armed last night with a phaser kept me alive. Nothing in the message indicated that Schmidty saw the attack or participated in my defense.

[Blade6119]

Also, my understanding is that Schmidty and I were on shifts guarding the water supply. I was asleep out of his site. I was awakened during the attack. It was strongly indicated that I am not a light sleeper. The fact that I was armed last night with a phaser kept me alive. Nothing in the message indicated that Schmidty saw the attack or participated in my defense.

i know nothing of what happened to me last night, so if i was attacked i dont know of it

[hoopsguy]

Blade, I believe that people can live for one day without water, but die if no water is allocated two days in a row.

I won't have water for thirteen people tomorrow. We'll then only have water for six people each day, based on previous numbers.

[Barkeep49]

Question is do we take that number and cut it in half or quarter and only give water to trusted people...that could dictate whos bad by who survives...barbaric, but might work...
All available water must be rationed.

[Blade6119]

All available water must be rationed.

Thnx for ruining my plan barkeep... :(

[jeff061]

Probably should ration water away from Raiders and vote for someone else tonight. We HAVE to vote for someone successfully tonight.

Of course we can still vote out Raiders to get Penny promoted to nurse.

[Blade6119]

Probably should ration water away from Raiders and vote for someone else tonight. We HAVE to vote for someone successfully tonight.

Of course we can still vote out Raiders to get Penny promoted to nurse.

I say dont vote for raiders...just dont ration him any and hell die...we need the lynch to get a different

[jeff061]

Yeah, upon reflecting on our current water situation we need to take a shot at someone.

[hoopsguy]

If we are going to promote Penny then we might want to have Vince check him out. I'm all for having another person who can do scans, but I would like to make sure they are fully trusted. I know that Vince, for one, does not trust Penny.

Also, if we want to go this route then voting for Raiders today might make perfect sense. Then we can get an extra day of scans from Penny.

Of course, it makes the water rationing decisions harder. Perhaps it is time to start working on circle of trust lists?

I think it is potentially telling that I was only attacked by a single spawn last night. No one else died last night. Blade, I'm assuming you were not attacked? There was no damage to our facilities. Anyone else have any revelations about night activities?

[Blade6119]

i have not been notified of anything that happened last night by barkeep...if i was attacked is it possible i would not hear a thing?(directed to barkeep on that one)

[Barkeep49]

All appropriate messages regarding the night have been sent. Anyone who participates in an attack recieves notification of the results

[Blade6119]

so that means i was not attacked...

I want to know why hoops says he cant be a spawnling...isnt the queen still around?

[hoopsguy]

OK, so if there were multiple spawn they why didn't they send two after me to finish the job? If there are multiple spawn, then what were the others doing last night? Just hanging out? The members of the spawn council should have been able to coordinate an attack if they were inclined in doing so.

Does anyone think there are 4+ spawn remaining and that a non-council spawn would have launched the attack on me? If that is the case, then there would have been seven (!!!) spawn at some point, with Dubbs, Marc, and Raiders being identified as spawn. I think it is more likely we are facing one than 4+ at this point, since we lifted off and took away their ability to launch spawn attacks.

[jeff061]

If there are more than 1, 1 could be in the brig. I only think there are one or two. Their failed attacks on Vince and our quick liftoff kept the number low I think.

Blade:
Lift-off
Lift-off is generally good new for the survivors. After lift-off no new survivors may become infected (although Spawn and Spawnlings may still evolve). Additionally, at the GM’s discretion, the water requirement may be lessened after lift-off.

[Blade6119]

If there are more than 1, 1 could be in the brig.

Solid point...im just at a loss now for who it is if we have one or two or twelve...im just at point 0 for who is spawn

[hoopsguy]

Blade, my understanding is that the queen cannot launch spawn attacks once LiftOff takes place.

I'm willing to submit to any scan that people request on me. Was before last night, still willing to now. But I don't believe that I could have been converted last night so unless that should not factor into the decision process. Scan me if you think I'm spawn, not because you think I was infected last night when they cannot do this.

Barkeep - I'm pretty sure you have answered this before but can you clarify on the spawn attacks (post LiftOff) one more time for clarity?

[hoopsguy]

I guess the other option for spawn movement last night is that someone didn't get their actions in over the weekend? But based on the info we have I think we have 1-2 left now.

There was no downside for the spawn sending multilple attackers at me, unless one of the hidden roles can kill them while protecting. I cannot kill them while defending.

[hoopsguy]

At this point in the game I'm not sure that there is value in having five engineers. Just trying to think about decisions for water. But if we are protecting our facilities I'm expecting that the spawn cannot do enough damage to hobble anything for more than one day (with double-shifts from 3-4 engineers).

[Blade6119]

I guess the other option for spawn movement last night is that someone didn't get their actions in over the weekend? But based on the info we have I think we have 1-2 left now.

There was no downside for the spawn sending multilple attackers at me, unless one of the hidden roles can kill them while protecting. I cannot kill them while defending.

Right now im leaning towards lathum as my #1 for the reason of him being soo quiet...he has the ability to scan and hasnt done it...i dont know why he wouldnt, and hence hes number 1 on my list now...mr. bug is kinda up there since hes usually pretty active and isnt now...my circle of trust currently includes vince, hoops, realdeal, and bek

[Barkeep49]

The queen is basically irrelevent post lift-off.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, what happened to the three-shot phaser that King had? Has that been passed on to Lathum? Was it lost when he died? Would it have been taken by someone when he was killed?

[jeff061]

I don't have it, no mention was made of it.

[RealDeal]

why is bek exhausted?

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, what happened to the three-shot phaser that King had? Has that been passed on to Lathum? Was it lost when he died? Would it have been taken by someone when he was killed?
Lathum does indeed have it.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, when it comes to water do I need to follow a direct order in terms of allocation? If so, I believe that I would need to follow orders from the Captain (Ardent), 1st Officer (KWhit), and 2nd Officer (RealDeal). How about Security Chief Lathum? Is my role considered Security Personnel, seeing as how I can guard water? Or do I fall outside of his jurisdiction since my title does not include "Security" in the title?

Since these people can directly order me to give them water I probably will include them in my initial list of thirteen people. I won't force them to order me to keep them alive unless I feel there is a compelling reason to do so. Self-preservation, at least in this case, would be something both non-spawn and spawn, should share.

[Barkeep49]

All of the officers, including Lathum, may give you an order.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, can we safely assume that the Swarm Lord would be equally unable to launch a spawn attack (like the Queen) after lift-off?

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, can we safely assume that the Swarm Lord would be equally unable to launch a spawn attack (like the Queen) after lift-off?
No you may not assume that.

[hoopsguy]

I don't see anything in secret roles that would explain Bek being exhausted. No real reason for him to have been attacked last night and revealed as a light sleeper. The slayer role is not exhausted when using their role. No other roles out there, at least not the ones that have yet to be revealed, seem to explain this.

[hoopsguy]

Ah, swarm lord does not release spawn attacks but releases swarm attacks. So no risk of conversion, just wound/kill. Misread that for a minute when I posed the question initially.

[Passacaglia]

Right now im leaning towards lathum as my #1 for the reason of him being soo quiet...he has the ability to scan and hasnt done it...i dont know why he wouldnt, and hence hes number 1 on my list now...mr. bug is kinda up there since hes usually pretty active and isnt now...my circle of trust currently includes vince, hoops, realdeal, and bek

Why bek? Seems like he's been pretty quiet, too.

[hoopsguy]

Blade posted something about Bek, that was later edited out, that seemed like a role reveal. Blade has also seemed to provide information on the Absolute Trust role. However, Blade has also come forward with the Gut Feeling role.

Barkeep, can someone share multiple roles? For example, could Blade possess Gut Feeling and be in an Absolute Trust?

[Lathum]

Lathum does indeed have it.
no one told me that! And I have been quite because I was out watching football all day yesterday.

[Lathum]

dola- Now I have to go to work and won't have internet access. I agree we need to get someone tonight, if for no other reason then to preserve water.

VOTE BEK

[Barkeep49]

Blade posted something about Bek, that was later edited out, that seemed like a role reveal. Blade has also seemed to provide information on the Absolute Trust role. However, Blade has also come forward with the Gut Feeling role.

Barkeep, can someone share multiple roles? For example, could Blade possess Gut Feeling and be in an Absolute Trust?
No survivor may have more than one secret role.

[jeff061]

Blade is friends with Bek in the real world. I'm guessing Bek is in the trust and they've talked.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Bek and Blade do too much talking about the game outside of it. They're not supposed to be able to chat privately unless they're bad guys.

[RealDeal]

I think Vince should scan bek, and perhaps that would give us some insight on Blade, too.

[jeff061]

I agreed, it equates to PM's.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so here are the things that I think merit discussion today:
1.) Who should Vince look at?
2.) Thirteen people get water - who should not be on this list? List falls to six/six going forward, which means that twelve people will be alive via water in the fairly near term.
3.) Should we move to eliminate Raiders so Pennywise can be promoted to nurse?
4.) Who should we lynch - no lynch makes water allocation that much harder going forward. Everyone can participate in the lynch decisions, while only some people ultimately control the water decisions.
5.) Why is Bek exhausted?
6.) Why is Lathum not using his ability (conference with another player)?
7.) Blade and Fouts went toe-to-toe on Friday night late, but neither got enough votes for lynch. Thoughts on these guys?
8.) Whatever else people think is important - I should not be the only one determining this list.
9.) What the hell are the spawn doing? Why only attack me with one last night?

[RealDeal]

Dola, I would just point out that the fact that bek and blade are friends hasn't been useful info in the past: remember when blade posted a pm from bek and got him killed even though he was a good guy?

[RealDeal]

[QUOTE=hoopsguy]OK, so here are the things that I think merit discussion today:
1.) Who should Vince look at?

I didn't even think of the fact that penny could become a nurse. It would be huge to have another scan. If we go down this path, Vince shouls scan penny, and then we should lynch RA tonight.

3.) Should we move to eliminate Raiders so Pennywise can be promoted to nurse?

that seems like a good idea.

5.) Why is Bek exhausted?

Good question.

[hoopsguy]

Vince scanning Penny gives us our Vince insurance, as well.

Again, I'm pretty sure that Vince is clean, but right now we are in a world of hurt if he became infected working on Raiders. So by promoting Penny we gain some peace of mind.

If Vince, was spawn, and we ask him to scan Penny then:
1.) Vince is spawn, Penny is spawn, Vince clears Penny, and we are flat screwed.
2.) Vince is spawn, Penny is clean. What does Vince do? Say he is spawn, we lynch and he is a survivor, then Vince goes good-bye next day? Says he is clean, we have Penny scan Vince the next day and then know both are good. Vince still has another scan that day and going forward we have two scans.

If Vince is clean, and we ask him to scan Penny then:
1.) Vince is clean, Penny is spawn, we remove another spawn. Possibly win the game?
2.) Vince is clean, Penny is clean, we have Penny scan Vince tomorrow as outlined in #2 above.

And, in this scenario, I'm not trying to kill Schmidty. Which is an added bonus.

Edited for readability.

[Passacaglia]

I'm with ya, hoops. I'd like to see Vince scan penny.

[RealDeal]

Yep this makes sense. Scan penny, kill RA. I like this also because Vince has remained suspicous of Penny for a while, and we don't have much else to go on.

vote RA

as always, this is subject to change, but I'll get it out there in case I forget to vote later.

[Vince]

Hrm -- only one attacker, and he attacks hoops? That's rather strange. Our spawn are either really unlucky or they are working on something. They have not successfully done ANYTHING this entire game.

I have some new information that I can bring to light now -- I was told by Barkeep that I can use my medical prowess to attempt to bring RA out of his coma. It will be my action for the day, so I get no attempt to scan someone if I do so. I think that this is a huge boon for us, because RA could know who the other spawn(s) are. So far, I've been pretty lucky in terms of 'rolls,' so hopefully I can get him cured today, and he can tell us about his role, and who his fellow spawn were.

I'm still suspicious of Pennywise, and like I told you guys before, I think he'd be a good candidate for lynch. There is nothing he can do that I cannot do, and if I bring RA around, it's like having a promoted Pennywise with the added bonus of him (possibly) knowing who the other spawn are. I have no secret vendetta against him...it's just that he's the only crewmember I have anything closely resembling evidence against.

[pennywisesb]

[QUOTE=hoopsguy]OK, so here are the things that I think merit discussion today:
1.) Who should Vince look at?

I didn't even think of the fact that penny could become a nurse. It would be huge to have another scan. If we go down this path, Vince shouls scan penny, and then we should lynch RA tonight.



This sounds like the best plan so far. I was thinking it would just be best to not allocate any water to RA and let him die naturally while we lynch someone else tonight, but then I wouldn't be able to scan for at least one more day. So I motion that Vince scan me and then we can get on with the game.

[hoopsguy]

Vince, is this a one-day only offer? If not, then you could do the scan on Penny today and we can move in that direction and try to revive Raiders tomorrow.

I want a healthy Raiders on our side as much as the next guy, but you would fall under a lot of suspicion if somehow the 'roll' to save Raiders fails. I know you have been suspicious of Penny and this is now a chance for you to clear him.

If everything breaks right we scan Penny today and then have our pick between promoting him or restoring Raiders.

Also, you do understand that you draw some suspicion on yourself when you throw attention at the only other guy who had the potential to scan, right? Not saying that your suspicions haven't been well-founded. But you now have a chance to scan him, and people are encouraging you to do this, and you are now saying your role morphed on the same day to allow you to 'save' Raiders. I hope you would be a little concerned about this if our roles were reversed.

[jeff061]

I'm not sure I understand how Raiders could be brought back, unless he only knew about Dubbs? And if his knowledge wasn't why he was put in a coma(which I still think it is) then why was he?

I think I'd like to bring Penny up. Have them scan each other.

[Vince]

Vince, is this a one-day only offer? If not, then you could do the scan on Penny today and we can move in that direction and try to revive Raiders tomorrow.

I want a healthy Raiders on our side as much as the next guy, but you would fall under a lot of suspicion if somehow the 'roll' to save Raiders fails. I know you have been suspicious of Penny and this is now a chance for you to clear him.

If everything breaks right we scan Penny today and then have our pick between promoting him or restoring Raiders.

Also, you do understand that you draw some suspicion on yourself when you throw attention at the only other guy who had the potential to scan, right? Not saying that your suspicions haven't been well-founded. But you now have a chance to scan him, and people are encouraging you to do this, and you are now saying your role morphed on the same day to allow you to 'save' Raiders. I hope you would be a little concerned about this if our roles were reversed.
I'd obviously be concerned about it. I have no problem clearing Penny today, but if we decide we aren't going to kill/let RA die, then we're looking at a two day wait on the return of getting RA revived or Penny promoted. I think that if instead we can get RA up and around today, we save some time, and we might even be able to get most people 'home safe.'

Why are you pushing so hard that I might have been converted? I can't help but think your efforts could be better spent elsewhere.

[jeff061]

Because you are pretty much untouchable and easily the most damaging person to be spawn.

[RealDeal]

Barkeep,

Do the rules encompass the possibility of RA being revived?

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep,

Do the rules encompass the possibility of RA being revived?
Vince has indeed been offered the chance to revive RA. He must spend both his AP to do so and it will require a successful role. If this is done successfully RA will be immeadiately revived.

[hoopsguy]

Long examination Day Only The doctor may choose to examine any crew member. If the crew member is a survivor, the doctor will learn this. If the crew member is infected, but has not yet become a spawn, the doctor will learn this, and will cure the crew member. If the crew member is a spawn the doctor will have a chance to cure the crew member. There is also a chance that the doctor and/or crew member will die or that the doctor will become infected. 2 AP

Vince, the reason I'm concerned about it is that I have no idea what percentage is associated with 'a chance' in the above quote. And because if you are a spawn, that bringing back RA likely isn't helping our cause. And because the idea of brining him back from his coma has the sound of a fake role.

If I'm sounding paranoid, then I accept that. I desperately want you to still be a survivor. I'm not looking to lynch you because I'm suspicious. I'm just trying to set up scenarios where we all know that you are working for us and not against us.

[pennywisesb]

Why are you pushing so hard that I might have been converted? I can't help but think your efforts could be better spent elsewhere.

My argument for having suspicion for you is simple. You keep pushing to get my lynched. If I'm not lynched and promoted, I could start scanning (prefereably scanning you). This could be dangerous for you if you are spawn which would be reason enough for you to continue beating a dead horse and pushing for my lynching. At least that is my thinking at this point.

Another idea that I just had would be how would we know you brought raiders_army out of his coma as a survivor? You could re-awake him in a spawn state if you've been converted. Just an idea.

[Poli]

Vote Raiders Army

Too many people drinking water.

[Vince]

Guys, see the above post by Barkeep about whether or not I can bring him out of the coma.

Pennywise -- you have been told multiple times that there are no new conversions after we have taken off. Even if I were spawn, I could not convert Raiders back, since I cured him a few days ago.

[Poli]

I believe you, Vince.

[hoopsguy]

Vince, fwiw I understand why this would be frustrating for you. If you know that you are not spawn, then what I'm saying right now seems like a waste of time. And your actions, up until this point, have been very pro-survivor. Plus there is a pretty good chance that Raiders knows who the other spawn are.

But - there is also a chance he has no idea. He might not have been on the council, so would only have known about Dubbs. His voting pattern on Marc suggests this, as he did not vote until after Dubbs had his vote on the books. It is also possible he was promoted to the spawn council when Marc passed (would suggest there were at least four spawn to start, since that suggests that Marc was original member, not converted on away mission) and has that knowledge.

I don't know which way I would want to have you go if you scan Penny and say he is clean. I like the scenario I laid out earlier for Penny to scan you. I think that if we have two people working on scans, out of twelve remaining people, that we should be able to ID the remaining spawn. But we might be able to save more than twelve if Raiders has info on the other spawn (not a lock, I don't think).

[KWhit]

I don't think we should vote to lynch RA. We can accomplish the same thing by keeping him from drinking water. Let's save our vote for someone else.

[hoopsguy]

Ardent, if you are convinced that Vince is still a survivor then you could make this easier by ordering him to work on Raiders Army. I believe you are still a survivor - I expect someone would have stepped up to claim they were the Miracle Worker if you had been lying at that time.

Day 1 - Ardent on ship (not Away Team), scanned by Vince
Night 1 - spawn attack on Vince
Day 2 - Ardent on ship
Night 2 - no news of spawn attack, Vince attacked in brig
Day 3 - Ardent reveals as miracle worker, participates in Away Team (no chance of spawn)

So for you to be spawn you would either have had to be original spawn, and scanned by Vince, or converted on Night 2. If you and Vince were original spawn, then you guys went through a very elaborate scenario in outing Dubb. I would stand up and applaud at the end of the game if this is the case, but I can't talk myself into believing this. So the only worry about you is in Night 2.

I find it very statistically improbable that you are both spawn. So I would be very comfortable with you ordering Vince to work on Raiders today. More comfortable than I would be with Vince reaching this decision on his own, if that makes sense.

[KWhit]

Also, it seems like an appropriate time to do this:

I am part of the Absolute Trust. I have a connection with some other crew members on board. However, the only one I've been able to identify yet is pennywiseb. He is not a spawn.

[RealDeal]

We have two choices, imo, because we need to get another scanner:

1. We can have Vince try to revive RA. We don't know what the chances will be. If Vince is successful, however, RA may know the identity of one or more of the remaining spawn.

2. We can have Vince scan Penny, and then we kill RA. Penny has a very good chance of becoming a nurse in this case, and after Vince's scan he will be cleared (or he will be cured). In this case, we get Penny as another scanner.

My gut tells me to go for option 2. Barkeep hasn't told us what the chance on the cure RA would be. It feels like a bird in the hand is better than two birds in the bush. I'd rather have the higher percentage chance at knowing I will end up with another scanner.

[hoopsguy]

Penny, can you confirm this as well?

[Vince]

Hoops, you have done a pretty good job of setting me up to be the bad guy. This worries me. Especially because you were attacked last night. It could be an awfully good set-up move...the 'attack' legitimizes you, while I'm now damned if I do, damned if I don't -- I want to bring RA back, but if I fail in my attempt, it sounds like the entire ship is ready to cry for my head. I don't want to out and out accuse you of anything, because you'd be a big loss for the survivors at this point...but I'm concerned.

I think killing RA is a terrible idea -- why not ration him water? He is one person that we are absolutely sure is cured (I thought I was in that camp, but apparently hoops and others are convinced otherwise), and he might even have knowlege about the spawn that we are still fighting to find. Instead of blindly accusing people for less-than-conclusive evidence, we could have a head start pointing us right at someone. Yes, attempting to cure RA does nothing to quell the suspicions of me that are growing at an alarming rate...but I was pretty sure that I had convinced everyone that I am doing everything I can to help the survivors. If it comes down to it, I am perfectly willing to run the risk of a stigma against me because I might fail a roll to save Raiders Army -- I think bringing him around is the best course of action right now.

Like I have mentioned earlier, however -- even if I have been turned, there is at least another spawn out there. We are taking time arguing about how I might be a bad guy, when we know there is at least one other bad guy out there. I don't want to say it's wasted time, because like you mentioned, if I were a bad guy it'd be a really difficult thing to figure out. But I do know my role, and if I had been infected by RA, I would have been happy to scan myself the next day to clean the infection -- I've done it already this game, and I wouldn't have minded doing it again.

I would love to run out your scenario on Pennywisesb -- I want to be cleared again just as much as you all want me to be. I'm not arguing against that course of action because I don't want it to come to pass...I'm arguing against it because I think that it really hinders us in the effort to find other Spawn. If I can bring RA around, we don't NEED to promote Pennywise, and we might even find out the Spawn right off the bat.

[jeff061]

I agree, I'm rather hesitant to revive RA without knowing what the roll is.

[pennywisesb]

Also, it seems like an appropriate time to do this:

I am part of the Absolute Trust. I have a connection with some other crew members on board. However, the only one I've been able to identify yet is pennywiseb. He is not a spawn.

I was going to save this, but since you outed me, I might as well come clean as well. I know that Bek is also part of the absolute trust as well (at least he's the only one I've been able to identify). I didn't know KWit was part of it until he just posted this.

[RealDeal]

There is a very good chance that if the Nurse dies that the medic will become the nurse.

How good is the chance of reviving RA? Is it also "very good"?

[RealDeal]

How do you learn someone is part of absolute trust?

[jeff061]

If we kill off Raider tonight that's one less night we have to lynch a "best guess". We are running out of time. We have 3 more lynch votes remaining, correct? Hacking off 33% doesn't appeal to me that much.

That said, I wish I knew the chances of reviving Raider.

[hoopsguy]

Vince, hopefully I'm alive tomorrow for you (or the nurse, whoever that is) to scan me to quell any fears I might be raising by questioning you. One way or another it sounds like we are both are moving towards escalated suspicion of each other. That doens't help the cause if we are both survivors.

I'm only in favor of rationing water to RA if we:
1.) Decide to try and bring him back today (I think it is a good option, just trying to decide if it is the best option)
2.) Can somehow promote Pennywise without having to kill RA first

[pennywisesb]

How do you learn someone is part of absolute trust?

Barkeep has been sending out PMs.

[Passacaglia]

This doesn't seem like the definition of absolute trust at all.

[RealDeal]

All the absolute trust people should come forward and give the names of any other members of the group they know of. This is valuable info, and no one should be sitting on it at this point of the game.

[KWhit]

This doesn't seem like the definition of absolute trust at all.
True, but the definition of the trust is very vague, and evidently no one from the trust has become a spawn.


Rule:
Absolute Trust If anyone in an Absolute Trust group has left the group (by becoming Spawnling or Spawn), the other group members will be informed of it.

[Passacaglia]

Hmm, so you think that Barkeep is sending out PMs since people are whiney about not knowing their secret role?

[pennywisesb]

This doesn't seem like the definition of absolute trust at all.

What do you mean?

BTW, as absolute trust, Bek, KWit, and I would know if any one of us was converted. So, basically, you all can be rest assured that we are all survivors. But I would welcome that scan today because I think its very important to have two people with the ability to scan.

At this point, my circle of trust includes: Bek (who's never here), Kwit, and myself. I want to believe Vince, but I'm getting really annoyed with his ideas of voting me off to be honest.

[KWhit]

Hmm, so you think that Barkeep is sending out PMs since people are whiney about not knowing their secret role?
No. They came before that.

[hoopsguy]

So I'm trying to figure out what my secret role is at this point by reviewing what has been revealed:
1.) Slayer? Would Barkeep have kept this one hidden this far into game? Doubtful.
2.) Empathic - only if MrWednesday is lying. Think this is very doubtful. MrW used this ability to help nail the Hive Mind.
3.) Gut Feeling - already claimed by Blade. Have never gotten 2-4 votes throughout a day to test this
4.) Incorruptible - not if Blade is to be believed, as I did not vote for him and he said that one of the people who voted for him was Incorruptible
5.) Light sleeper - based on the attack on me last night, it was indicated that I do not possess this ability
6.) Miracle worker - already used by Ardent
7.) Vigilante - only if Jeff is lying
8.) Duplicant - only if RealDeal was lying, and his actions do not suggest this was the case. Again, this role was used to help nail Dubb
9.) Absolute Trust - have not received any PM on this

So it appears I have no secret role forthcoming, if everyone is telling the truth about their role. Since everyone has a secret role, this should not be the case. Or unless I'm part of an Absolute Trust and have yet to be informed of this.

Barkeep, are there duplicates of any of the Secret Roles outside of Absolute Trust? Or is each of them unique?

[pennywisesb]

All the absolute trust people should come forward and give the names of any other members of the group they know of. This is valuable info, and no one should be sitting on it at this point of the game.

If we could have sat on this longer, and waited until our numbers were less, the percentages of finding out who was spawn and who wasn't would have gone up. At this point, I know of the three I listed and I'm hesitant to think there are any more involved. It would be nice if Bek would come forward and say which one of us he know's as being part of the trust as well.

[KWhit]

I want to believe Vince, but I'm getting really annoyed with his ideas of voting me off to be honest.
That's why I came forward. Vince is pretty trustworthy right now, IMO, and he has thrown some suspician your way. So I wanted to try to quell that if possible.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, are there duplicates of any of the Secret Roles outside of Absolute Trust? Or is each of them unique?

All survivor secret roles may have duplicates and all players have a secret role.

[Vince]

I've been throwing suspicion at pennywise for days, KWhit :)

[KWhit]

I've been throwing suspicion at pennywise for days, KWhit :)
I know, but it didn't seem like anyone was listening to you.

:p

[pennywisesb]

I've been throwing suspicion at pennywise for days, KWhit :)

I understand what KWit was doing. I wasn't going to out anyone until one of us came close to being voted off. You kept throwing suspicion my way, but no one ever jumped on the bandwagon so I wasn't in any immediate danger. I wanted to try to save our roles until we could get the # of people lower because then our odds of taking down a spawn with our lynch votes would go up.

[jeff061]

Well I think the outing of the trust right now is good. Should help for rationing and of course increases our odds of voting correctly.

We need to pick someone to vote off tonight. It seems Lathum is now the current hot pick...

[Passacaglia]

I know, but it didn't seem like anyone was listening to you.

:p

I was listening...I just didn't know what to do about it!

[Vince]

I know, but it didn't seem like anyone was listening to you.

:p
That seems to be the case often in these games. I need to get better at subtle hints, I guess? Because the overt ones (ie "I think pennywisesb is spawn, so I vote pennywise") get completely missed often.

[pennywisesb]

That seems to be the case often in these games. I need to get better at subtle hints, I guess? Because the overt ones (ie "I think pennywisesb is spawn, so I vote pennywise") get completely missed often.

LMAO.

[KWhit]

Well I think the outing of the trust right now is good. Should help for rationing and of course increases our odds of voting correctly.
That was part of my thinking too. We need to be smart about rationing, so the more information we have the better.

[Vince]

Well, I have to go to work soon. I'll probably leave in about 15 minutes. I'll be gone all day, as I have luxury box tix to the Giants game tonight.

[RealDeal]

Should Vince go on and scan someone then?

[Poli]

I'm keeping my vote for Raiders Army. We absolutely have to vote someone out. I am more than willing to change this vote should something come to light.

[jeff061]

I'd think so.

[hoopsguy]

Who do you trust? I've got four categories for my analysis, but they are not weighted within these categories (#1 high is not necessarily trusted more than #3 high, for example)

Absolute
1.) Hoopsguy - I know I've been a survivor from the outset and remain so now.

High
1.) Ardent - arguments made above. Also cast tie-breaker vote to hang a spawn on Day 1.
2.) RealDeal - contributed to taking down Dubb, never at risk on Away Teams
3.) MrWednesday - contributed to taking down Dubb, never at risk on Away Teams
4.) Vince - actions have been pro-survivor all the way
5.) Raiders Army - I believe that Raiders can be cured, is not somehow a lurking spawn
6.) Jeff - some correlation between him and Fouts in terms of vigilante/spy activities. No one has called him out on Vigilante role, which was revealed post-LiftOff
7.) Schmidty - cleared by Vince
8.) Passacaglia - cleared by RealDeal

Medium
1.) KWhit - never scanned, two chances to have been converted on Away Teams, not exactly taking chances with his voting up to this point. Higher trust level if the Absolute Trust people all clear each other.
2.) Saldana - cast very late vote to tie Schmidty with MarcV. Not much info to work with up to this point.
3.) Bek - inactive, but invoked in the Absolute Trust. Why is he exhausted today?
4.) Pennywise - was in brig with Vince when he was attacked by 2-3 spawn. Vouched for by KWhit in Absolute Trust
5.) Fouts - had some information on Jeff that seems consistent with a spy role. But also went after Vince hard during Dubb vote.

Low
1.) Lathum - not using his interrogation option, inactive throughout the game
2.) MrBug - inactive, not much info to work with.
3.) SnDvls - I worry that he did not arm Fouts/Schmidty on the night that I was attacked when phasers only help with defense, not with offense (unless I'm missing somethinig in the rules)
4.) Blade - went after Vince hard, his story about secret role blocks two different ones for me when I don't have a known role at this point

[jeff061]

I'm keeping my vote for Raiders Army. We absolutely have to vote someone out. I am more than willing to change this vote should something come to light.

This does us no good except waste a vote. We are better off randomly picking someone not in the trust. He's not getting water so he does no negative effect on us.

[RealDeal]

Just scan someone who hasnt been cleared and doesn't claim to be in the circle of trust: bug, sndlvs, lathum, blade, fouts and hoops are in that group. Probably some others too.

[Vince]

Well, I have to go get showered and such, so I just sent in my day action.

I have bit the bullet, and decided to attempt to bring RA out of his coma. With all the suspicion around me, this probably isn't the greatest move -- but I truly believe it is the correct course of action.

We'll see what happens -- I probably won't be able to let you guys know about my results, though Barkeep's description should tell you all you'd need to know.

[hoopsguy]

We definitely need Vince to scan someone before he leaves.

Enjoy the game. I'm missing Cubs tonight (bleachers) because I'm home sick.

[RealDeal]

Well, I have to go get showered and such, so I just sent in my day action.

I have bit the bullet, and decided to attempt to bring RA out of his coma. With all the suspicion around me, this probably isn't the greatest move -- but I truly believe it is the correct course of action.

We'll see what happens -- I probably won't be able to let you guys know about my results, though Barkeep's description should tell you all you'd need to know.

uck

[jeff061]

We just need to keep in mind I cleared Fouts claim that he was spying, which I can think he can do as Spawn. Not sure why he'd want to though.

Your list sums up my views pretty well though. Even If I put you somewhere between low and medium ;).

[pennywisesb]

We really NEED to vote someone off today. I'm curious why Lathum hasn't used his ability.