Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[Poli]

Put a year of supporter on the line, blade. Let's make it interesting.

[Blade6119]

Liftoff was considered essential by many.

Want to quote those for me?? i know it was not discussed that im aware of and i know i and a few others would have opposed it at that time...will you quote those that supported it before you ordered it, as well give post #s for reference with your order....seems like a lot, but if you do this ill prob. switch my vote...prob doesnt mean for sure, but it would be a strong push

[Blade6119]

Put a year of supporter on the line, blade. Let's make it interesting.

Im not even supporter now ardent, why would i put a year of it on the line new??

[Poli]

Dude, I'm not going back through all that. I'd rather you kill me.

Still, the supporter bet is on if you want. One year or three months. If I'm spawn as of today or before today, you win. If I'm not, I win.

[Poli]

Im not even supporter now ardent, why would i put a year of it on the line new??Just think, you could be if I'm wrong.

[Poli]

Heck, we'll even throw in your "boy", Achilles.

[Blade6119]

just for reference, i presented my points and voted already...from here on out im mostly going to play with ardent and watch others react...i think kwhit would be the best captain as most people trust him 100%, where ardent has his doubters...

Were getting a free shot at a potential spawn...with the water we have, i say take it...we didnt get our lynch today because he took it...thats opens him up, so lets see where the road winds

[Poli]

I imagine "his" team is defunct by now, though.

[Blade6119]

Heck, we'll even throw in your "boy", Achilles.

Now thats not fair, why you gotta bring Achilles into this...he is innocent!! INNOCENT I TELL YOU!!! :D :D

[Poli]

Blade: Screw you.

[Blade6119]

I imagine "his" team is defunct by now, though.

They did...unfortunately...Achilles had some defenders near 40-50k tsi, but he just stopped logging in...My bombers are selling the whole team and starting over after trying to drop to D6 this year

[Blade6119]

Blade: Screw you.

:( :( :( ...ardent, i always talk alot...but remember, bug cast the first stone

[Poli]

They did...unfortunately...Achilles had some defenders near 40-50k tsi, but he just stopped logging in...My bombers are selling the whole team and starting over after trying to drop to D6 this year
I'm telling you, I would have bought whoever to prove I'm innocent. You'll see if the crew declares a mutiny that I'm clean.

I'm guilty of a mistake...a mistake I was sure was going to give us the win today. It's my fault, but I shouldn't be "lynched" for it.

[Achilles]

dont be calling me out ardent, im achilles...i do what i want! ;)

[hoopsguy]

Day 1 - Post #107, Vince examines Ardent. Says he is clean. Possibly he and Vince are spawn? Doesn't fit with other spawn activity. Do we agree he was clean this day?
Day 1 - Post #148, AE is not on the Away Team.
Night 1 - Post #346, Vince is spawn attacked. Queen cannot spawn attack two people, as far as I know.
Day 2 - Post #306 Ardent is not on the Away Team.
Day 2 - Post #499 Ardent breaks the Marc/Schmidty tie with Captain's vote. Goes against his vote earlier in the day. Was he spawn here? Did he sacrifice a fellow spawn?
Night 2 - We don't know what the Queen did this night, but Vince reveals in Post #665 that he was attacked (not spawn attacked) in the Brig. Likely candidates are Dubb and Raiders based on current evidence.
Day 3 - Post #623 Ardent announces he is the miracle worker. Did he fake this role? It is possible he is spawnling at this point if attacked the night before. If telling the truth, then there was zero opportunity for anyone to be infected. No one has ever claimed to be the miracle worker to contradict his claim.
Day 3 - Post #740 Ardent votes for liftoff
Night 3 - No longer options for spawn attack

So the potential for AE to be spawn comes during a Night #2 attack. That is about all I can come up with at this point. His actions on Day 3 seem to be crew-favorable, but if he was attacked without his knowledge he could have been working against us after this. He would have been a good candidate for an attack on Night #2 for the Queen if Vince was unavailable (in the Brig) and Raiders was already spawn.


Edited to update post numbers

[Poli]

just for reference, i presented my points and voted already...from here on out im mostly going to play with ardent and watch others react...i think kwhit would be the best captain as most people trust him 100%, where ardent has his doubters...

Were getting a free shot at a potential spawn...with the water we have, i say take it...we didnt get our lynch today because he took it...thats opens him up, so lets see where the road winds

This looks an awful lot like a first stone to me.

[Poli]

So the potential for AE to be spawn comes during a Night #2 attack. That is about all I can come up with at this point. His actions on Day 3 seem to be crew-favorable, but if he was attacked without his knowledge he could have been working against us after this. He would have been a good candidate for an attack on Night #2 for the Queen if Vince was unavailable (in the Brig) and Raiders was already spawn.
I appreciate your research, but I'm simply not spawn.

[Poli]

To be honest, I'm a little surprised it's being considered that I lynched. I'm sure barkeep will be surprised as well.

What I don't get is what I would have to gain as a spawn by using this "duke" role now. I get rid of ONE survivor, meanwhile, what 9-10 of us are still around? Come on.

[Blade6119]

To be honest, I'm a little surprised it's being considered that I lynched. I'm sure barkeep will be surprised as well.

What I don't get is what I would have to gain as a spawn by using this "duke" role now. I get rid of ONE survivor, meanwhile, what 9-10 of us are still around? Come on.

My thinking is water...and you expected us to waste another killing RA...thats two days of wasted water, which will severely even the numbers for the spawn

[Poli]

Not at all.

[hoopsguy]

Ardent, I only see that one window for you to have been spawn. I think I could conceivably make as compelling a case for about half the crew. I think you screwed the pooch today, but I don't think that you are spawn.

One of these times you will be bluffing on the HatTrick stuff :)

I'll dig up that Night #1 post number - dropped xxx in for everything while I was looking them up.

[Blade6119]

This looks an awful lot like a first stone to me.
I made the public ones...if im not mistaken bug mis-sent a Pm voting for you long before i even got back

[Poli]

You clearly know you're in the wrong, which is why you won't take the bet. I'm done wasting my time with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[MrBug708]

I made the public ones...if im not mistaken bug mis-sent a Pm voting for you long before i even got back

Or maybe I was joking around :rolleyes:

[Poli]

Ardent, I only see that one window for you to have been spawn. I think I could conceivably make as compelling a case for about half the crew. I think you screwed the pooch today, but I don't think that you are spawn.

One of these times you will be bluffing on the HatTrick stuff :)

I'll dig up that Night #1 post number - dropped xxx in for everything while I was looking them up.
No way will I ever bluff on the hattrick stuff. That's my golden ticket. I ain't spending 20 bucks for a lie. Ever.

That's essentially how you can tell I'm being honest.

[Poli]

:) :p Or maybe I was joking around :rolleyes:Blast you bugger!

[Blade6119]

You clearly know you're in the wrong, which is why you won't take the bet. I'm done wasting my time with you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Seriously?? holy crap ardent...im not sure your spawn, but even if your good i think kwhit is a better captain and its one less mouth....if you ignore listed me then ouch

[MrBug708]

:) :p Blast you bugger!

Or maybe I wasn't ;)

[Poli]

Ah, barkeep. Bet you didn't expect this.

[Poli]

Or maybe I wasn't ;):D Gotta love a Bug.

[Poli]

Heh, I was only joking when I told barkeep I wanted to order vince to drug blade into a coma, but now I wish blade was. :(

At least he's a lot more quiet in the ignore list.

[Blade6119]

Heh, I was only joking when I told barkeep I wanted to order vince to drug blade into a coma, but now I wish blade was. :(

At least he's a lot more quiet in the ignore list.

Wow, regardless of whether or not he can hear this, god damn thats a prick move...me presenting points on him blocks me...wow, thats not having a gamemanship

[Passacaglia]

I think these games need a little more role-play, and a little less real life.

[Poli]

I think these games need a little more role-play, and a little less real life.Nah, I'm fine. He'll exit the ignore list once this game is over. I'm just tired of blade right now and his antics. He's trying to get me lynched, when he knows full well I'm a survivor.

[Barkeep49]

I think these games need a little more role-play, and a little less real life.
I agree. 100%. I am not pointing fingures here at anyone, but there are two things in a game:
1) Questioning the wisdom of a player's actions
2) Questioning the wisdom of a player

It seems like some have fallen into the second category. I admit I'm not 100% up to date on board politics but please make sure your points fall into the first category and not the second. This seems to have been a game that everyone's enjoyed, and many have been very involved in, and I would like to see it stay fun and not sour.

[Poli]

Plus, I'm not tempted to respond to his posts. Bonus, in my opinion.


edit to remove a "mean" word. I mean no ill will to Blade.

[Poli]

It seems like some have fallen into the second category. I admit I'm not 100% up to date on board politics but please make sure your points fall into the first category and not the second. This seems to have been a game that everyone's enjoyed, and many have been very involved in, and I would like to see it stay fun and not sour.
If I have, I apologize. It irritates me to no end to have someone totally ignore facts and instead try to goad me.

[saldana]

ok ardent, you said you wanted to save ra, i wanna know why....what value does he have to the crew at this point...if he died, we would have a new nurse tommorow and would get as many as 3 short scans tommorow. i screwed up and only made one scan today, and as a result am willing to die from dehydration...you screwed us intentionally and want us all to just say "ooops". no offense Raiders, but you are a liability to this ship right now, and since ardent thought it was so important to save you, he traded his life for yours, imo.

[Poli]

I'm going to just answer why. Because if he knows inside info, we're fine. If he is cured tomorrow and doesn't know anything, at least he can scan. Bottom line is, he would have died a villager tonight, just as Jeff did.

There's also a part of me that felt Jeff was the final piece to the spawn puzzle. If you guys kill me tonight, you're just making the odds better for them.

There's no sense in killing another survivor/villager.

[RealDeal]

There is a chance that AE could have been converted, and he would have been a prime target early in the game. I doubt that he has been, but his actions today were strange. He had no more info than any of the rest of us. He both in word and in deed did everything possible to keep us from getting another scanner. And, if he were spawn at this point, we would be screwed.

At this point, we have to make some progress and start getting the water usage rate down. I put the odds of AE being spawn at 20-25%. If it was an innocent mistake he made today, it was a huge one. Basically, the majority of the team had a plan and he went Rambo on a guy. Jeff clearly had some possibility of being a spawn, but AE didn't have any more info than any of the rest of us in making this decision. There were much better spawn candidates than Jeff.

Even if he is a survivor, I'm uncomfortable knowing that AE could do this again at any time.

Killing RA, we would have made definite progress today. Instead, today was an unmitigated disaster. As such, despite my hunch that AE is survivor, I voted yes to barkeep.

[Poli]

RD, that at least makes more sense than some of the other things I've seen. Listen, if it helps, I won't use the power again. I promise. Let's not kill a survivor/villager.

[Passacaglia]

If I have, I apologize. It irritates me to no end to have someone totally ignore facts and instead try to goad me.

I know I'm not the target of this, but I'll own up to have been wrong in my last statement about you concering RA. I'm back on the ardent train now, and back to thinking we should have got Blade yesterday.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, will the mutiny votes be published tomorrow or do you only list the final decision?

[RealDeal]

And you've got to be abolsutely fucking with me if we are going to waste another day trying to revive RA.

[Poli]

Fine, don't. Don't kill me, though. I would even go as far as ORDERING Vince not to.

[hoopsguy]

If the votes are hidden, then I don't know that we gain information from this vote. Except that Blade is obviously in favor of a new captain.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, will the mutiny votes be published tomorrow or do you only list the final decision?
Mutiny votes are secret, as the mutiny is all hush hush. I wll publish the final tally, but that's it.

[Blade6119]

If the votes are hidden, then I don't know that we gain information from this vote. Except that Blade is obviously in favor of a new captain.

For clarification, im in favor or kwhit due to his absolute trust status..not just anyone...if it was someone like lathum at #2 ardent would get my no vote

[Poli]

I think it's clear I'm a goner. It's clearly the wrong decision.

[KWhit]

Wow. Some crazy happenings tonight.

My vote is sent.

[hoopsguy]

Whoever plays the role of captain has the ability to make that order. We have no way to hold Ardent to not using it. Nor would we have the ability to keep KWhit from using it.

If we do keep Ardent I would prefer that he continues to play in the manner he sees best. He came through big-time on the Vince tie-breaker earlier. There will likely be times where I have a different opinion than him (I did on the Schmidty/MarcV vote), but bullying another player into certain actions/non-actions isn't necessarily optimal.

That said, I share RealDeal's frustration about how today went down. If you put the order in early today to kill Jeff then I would have hoped that you would follow the direction of this thread and consider modifying it if a better plan had emerged. If you are still alive to talk tomorrow I would hope that this is a lesson learned.

Since the votes are private, then we don't get any voting patterns off killing the captain. Less than optimal, in my opinion. Saves water? Yes. Gets us closer to winning? Not sure.

[Poli]

Thanks hoops. I'm beleagured, and I'll take that as a pick me up.

I really need to go to bed.

[Poli]

Wow. Some crazy happenings tonight.

My vote is sent.I hope you're ready for your own command. You may get it sooner than you expected.

[hoopsguy]

Where is the win in this move if Ardent is a spawn?

Lets assume that he is the Queen and that Raiders was the 3rd person on the council. Raiders could narc him out and he is the last remaining spawn. But Vince cleared Ardent on Day 1. Ardent voted out a spawn on Day 2, and used the miracle worker power on Day 3.
Likelihood of this scenario: 1%

Lets assume that he was converted on Day 2. Raiders could identify the queen and Ardent is the only other remaining spawn. Ardent could ride this out, knowing that he can order water the rest of the way as we are forced to lynch people. We can't lynch the captain, so we would have to run a mutiny later in the game to overthrow him. In this case, does it make sense to potentially invite a mutiny tonight? Does he think he will be able to talk his way out of this?
Likelihood of this scenario: 20%

Can anyone else come up with other Ardent-as-spawn scenarios? Do you think my % of likelihood numbers are off-base?

[RealDeal]

What's frustrating is that when today started, there was no mathematical way we could lose. If you take the number of uncleared members and subtract three per day (two scans plus a lynching), we have it wrapped up before the water goes. Instead, because half the crew has an inexplicable mancrush on RA, we are in deep shit.

All we had to do was two scans and a lynching of an uncleared member per day. I don't know why that was so hard.

[Poli]

Lets assume that he was converted on Day 2. Raiders could identify the queen and Ardent is the only other remaining spawn. Ardent could ride this out, knowing that he can order water the rest of the way as we are forced to lynch people. We can't lynch the captain, so we would have to run a mutiny later in the game to overthrow him. In this case, does it make sense to potentially invite a mutiny tonight? Does he think he will be able to talk his way out of this?
Likelihood of this scenario: 20%

Can anyone else come up with other Ardent-as-spawn scenarios? Do you think my % of likelihood numbers are off-base?
Hoops, wow. I never would have thought of that, honestly. You are quite a thinker. Thumbs up for that.

[Poli]

What's frustrating is that when today started, there was no mathematical way we could lose. If you take the number of uncleared members and subtract three per day (two scans plus a lynching), we have it wrapped up before the water goes. Instead, because half the crew has an inexplicable mancrush on RA, we are in deep shit.

All we had to do was two scans and a lynching of an uncleared member per day. I don't know why that was so hard.
I just don't see how taking out another survivor is beneficial to the group.

[hoopsguy]

Ardent, I'm not right on all of my theories, but I do try to think both sides of the game when I play. Sometimes it works, sometimes not so much.

Of course, this makes it really hard when I don't understand how some people play. Which is why I'll sometimes ask how someone has played in previous games.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I've sent in my water decisions for tonight. I did not receive any orders up to this point on providing water for anyone, so the decisions are 100% mine. I'll be prepared to defend my decisions tomorrow morning.

[Poli]

Well, I hope I don't meet Kingfc and Jeff tonight.

[Blade6119]

hoops, what did you think of the brig call? Are all four ok?

[kingfc22]

Well, I hope I don't meet Kingfc and Jeff tonight.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Poli]

Also, I've sent in my water decisions for tonight. I did not receive any orders up to this point on providing water for anyone, so the decisions are 100% mine. I'll be prepared to defend my decisions tomorrow morning.
Now that you mention that, I nearly hinted that I was going to use my power tonight when I said I didn't mind how you split it up...or however I said it.

I just didn't want Jeff to see it coming. I felt certain he was the last spawn.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, I'm less excited about our group in the brig now that we are not going to be able to promote Pennywise tomorrow. We pushed for a change in that group with the idea of protecting our new nurse, not a medic when we have no wounded. Changing the mix in the brig when there have not been any issues the last two nights is not optimal. But that is not on you at all - you were working with the scenario we collectively laid out. FWIW, I liked Schmidty better than Pass since Vince had cleared Schmidty personally. I know he has been leery of Penny so we were giving him some comfort by putting someone he cleared recently in with him.

I'm curious what Vince thinks of the new group in the brig. As well as the recent developments.

[pennywisesb]

Wow, looks as though I missed a ton. Today has been a complete disaster on all accounts. First Vince wastes a scan, we don't promote a nurse, and now our lynch vote is overturned so that an innocent survivor dies. Now, I agree that at the very least we are saving water at this point, but I don't know if I can not mutiny against a captain who doesn't have the crews' best interest at hand. By the end of the voting period I felt there was a pretty good pattern as to what the crew wanted to happen and I can guarantee killing Jeff wasn't that option. I wish AE had thought of that before his decision.

KWit is at the top of my circle of trust due to him being a member of the absolute trust with me and so I'm leaning towards him becoming our captain.

[Poli]

I hope you reconsider, bud.

[RealDeal]

Taking out a survivor helps when the survivor:

(i) drinks water, but
(ii) can't talk or vote; and
(iii) has a low chance of being revived, which
(iv) causes the team to forego scans; and when
(v) the death of said survivor would result in the team GAINING a seer.

The important thing is the team winning. When I used my duplicant power, I did two short scans because it was more valuable to the team for me two use two scans even if I died in the process (because when's there's my suriviors than spawn, any one for one trade is a win for the survivors). All survivors should think that way. We win if the villagers win, even if we died contributing to the win. We gain more than we lose if RA dies.

[Poli]

I know I blew it. I admit it. Let's not have Jeff, me, and RA die for this.

[hoopsguy]

RealDeal, I'll meet you at least halfway here. But, to offer some counter-points:
1.) We have no idea if the revival chance for RA is low or high
2.) We have no idea how many spawn are left
3.) We don't gain a seer if Vince says that Pennywise is spawn

I've considered all of these factors in backing our RA plan. But it isn't a black-or-white issue. There are arguments that can be made for trying to revive RA. I just didn't think this was the optimal play. Neither did you. But we still are playing a game that involved incomplete information so none of us know that we for sure had the game won if Ardent didn't whack the survivor.

[Poli]

I'm curious as to when we'll know the results.

[pennywisesb]

I'm curious as to when we'll know the results.

I think votes are due by 9am ET

[Poli]

Well, here's to hoping for good decisions between now and then.

[Barkeep49]

I'm curious as to when we'll know the results.
That's correct. It'll go up with the morning post which occurs between 9 and 10 EDT.

[Poli]

Off to bed, gotta get 6 hours of sleep. Got to. Guys, do a good thing. Vote NO for mutiny.

[dubb93]

:D

[Blade6119]

Tonight was fun, glad to get out and enjoy college girls...but back to this game...what does everyone who can hear me ;) think about the mutiny that hasnt spoken?

[Bek]

i know we arent supposed to talk about it in game here...but i feel like that is for the weak of heart...if you are going to be a man about it then you should show your face to the man you are about to send floating off into space...so yes ardent i did vote against you

[Blade6119]

What lead ya to that decision buddy?

[Bek]

I figure if all the men step up...then in theory we will be left with the spawn queen left sitting in the corner...but thats not likely to happen...i feel like ardent should know who voted for him at least

[Blade6119]

being a man?...thats must be a new thing according to you, at least according to sara

[Bek]

ive been a man ever since well....ummmm...lets not talk about that now...but sara is one fine girl...and she sure is lucky to have me...dont know what is with her and telling stroies like she is drunk...but her looks sure do make up for it...i could bore you with one of them to pass the time but then that would make ardent want to kill himself though...which would be no fun

[Blade6119]

ive been a man ever since well....ummmm...lets not talk about that now...but sara is one fine girl...and she sure is lucky to have me...dont know what is with her and telling stroies like she is drunk...but her looks sure do make up for it...i could bore you with one of them to pass the time but then that would make ardent want to kill himself though...which would be no fun

LOL, do tell...ardent can just put you on his ignore list like i am! Sara is a crazy drunk..she would have to be to stay with you buddy :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Blade6119]

fyi, bek and i are just playing around...this is just us joking around...theres nobody talking so we got bored and we dont want to talk out of thread

[Bek]

at least i can get a good girl and not one that wants to spend the night on the first date(not like thats a bad thing every once and awhile)...and for staying with me she would have to be drunk to leave me...im the best she will ever had(or at least positive thinking hurt no one)...but for the story i hear....

It all started on a late evening. she had too many shots and thats when she decided to start rambling on about lima beans...why lima beans you ask?...well, im not sure myself but i went along with it, but anyways i guess there was lima the lima bean and he had his friend peter the pea pod, and somehow the got lost and peter fell into the pool and then Lima had to go save him or something( for at this point i had pretty much stopped listening) and then somehow or other they were both safe...seems know that it was funnier at the time...helps to have a few beers in ya i guess

[Blade6119]

at least i can get a good girl and not one that wants to spend the night on the first date(not like thats a bad thing every once and awhile)...and for staying with me she would have to be drunk to leave me...im the best she will ever had(or at least positive thinking hurt no one)...but for the story i hear....

It all started on a late evening. she had too many shots and thats when she decided to start rambling on about lima beans...why lima beans you ask?...well, im not sure myself but i went along with it, but anyways i guess there was lima the lima bean and he had his friend peter the pea pod, and somehow the got lost and peter fell into the pool and then Lima had to go save him or something( for at this point i had pretty much stopped listening) and then somehow or other they were both safe...seems know that it was funnier at the time...helps to have a few beers in ya i guess

LOL, Sara is freaking crazy...she always pulls the funniest stuff out of her that i cant stop laughing at, and when i tell someone else they just look at me funny...but maybe its not the story lol...and just because girls like spending the night in my dorm room doesnt mean they dont have class...it just means they recognize mine

But besides you being jealous of what keri and have since i met her two das ago, talk to me of what you think of everyone in the game...give me a run-down of sorts and ill match you back

[Bek]

well for startes ardent needs to lay off the coffee, orange juice is a good alternative
RA seems like a good guy...at least when in a coma...
kwhit seems like a guy i can trust after the absolute trust role was found out about
and then theres you...not so sure what to think about you...pretty shady business you keep there, running the brig and all, do we still need the brig anways?

[Blade6119]

damn straight we do bek...brig = important...engineer bek, not important...conclusion, you decide...

[Bek]

looks like you got it all figured out then huh?...guess ill just let my mouth here take up your water supply or what you have left? they way i see it we have to give water to half the people reamining (guarenteed cleared) and then if one of the ones not given water still is living then that leads us to one conclusion...spawn

[Blade6119]

looks like you got it all figured out then huh?...guess ill just let my mouth here take up your water supply or what you have left? they way i see it we have to give water to half the people reamining (guarenteed cleared) and then if one of the ones not given water still is living then that leads us to one conclusion...spawn
good call, im sure it will...brutal, yet effective...who gets the water if you were rationing though?

[Bek]

rought times call for tough measures...as for a water list i would have to include:
bek
blade
hoopsguy
sundvls
captain(be it ardent or kwhit)
and since im selfish the remaining would go to me and RA...always nice to have a human punching bag around

[Bek]

you ever know when he is going to wake up and bite you all in the behind for being mean

[Blade6119]

rought times call for tough measures...as for a water list i would have to include:
bek
blade
hoopsguy
sundvls
captain(be it ardent or kwhit)
and since im selfish the remaining would go to me and RA...always nice to have a human punching bag around

Interesting to leave vince off the list, but could work i guess if we have that few numbers to find the spawn...i dont think hoops would ever do it, or any officers order him to, but interesting view...would be risky as hell, though id add penny since we know he is clean...sun for just guns is an interesting pick too...

[Blade6119]

you ever know when he is going to wake up and bite you all in the behind for being mean

Mean like him toying with me in the vince vote?? like that?? He deserves to be kicked over and over

[Vince]

Wow. So today turned out to be a steaming pile of crap all around. Fantastic.

Ardent -- I really appreciate the show of confidence, I wish I could have done more with my attempt this afternoon. Surprised at the Jeff vote, but I can see where you are coming from, and my own actions today show that I am one to go with what I think is right. It's a bummer that you had to pick wrong :(

Well, Raiders Army isn't back yet. That means tomorrow I could try again. Obviously, based upon your responses, the overwhelming sentiment is that I would be retarded to even consider it. Ardent's got my back, but no one else does. I have stated my reasons before, so I will state them again.

Raiders Army is a guaranteed good guy. Even if you're drinking the Hoopsguy Kool-Aid that says that I was converted via infection while curing Raiders Army (no offense -- I understand why you're painting the picture. I don't have to like it though :)), I was still a guaranteed good guy when I worked on him, and can be totally trusted through that point regardless of what you believe happened afterwards. I guess, if you are really insane, you might think that I've been spawn the entire time, and have personally orchestrated the death of two Spawn in the efforts of keeping myself under very good cover...but seriously, that's ridiculous.

Raiders Army has a very good chance of knowing who the other Spawn(s) is (are). I know people seem to think that he might not know, but this is why I believe he would have knowlege that would help us:Spawn Council
The Spawn Council is made up of the three longest surviving Spawn. These three may freely PM each other.I take from this that the Spawn Council evolves as spawn die. So when Marc Vaughn died day 2, if he was on the council, the next longest surviving spawn was promoted to Spawn council. If he wasn't, then RA was more than likely already on the council -- unless you think they started with 6 or 7 spawn to begin with. Barkeep, can you confirm this thought? Can Spawn be promoted to the council throughout the game? We know we killed the Hive (Dubb). We've been told that we would recognize the Queen, and neither Marc nor RA (during my examination of him) were the Queen. So the Queen (who is largely useless now) is out there somewhere. RA could point us right to it.

Those were really my only reasons for looking into curing RA. However, after everyone made such an uproar about it today, I decided to look into other alternatives. What I found is more evidence that makes me want to continue to revive RA. See here...

Our other option, aside from curing RA, is by promoting Pennywisesb to Nurse. At first, I was very leery of this, because I've been on Penny's ass for days now. He might have been involved in that attack on me in the brig. Now, however, he has been placed in the absolute trust group, so that gives him a measure of certainty. I'm not fully convinced, but I do feel better about him now.

Reading over the Medic's description, I find two VERY interesting pieces of evidence:Medic (1 AP per cycle)
There is a very good chance that if the Nurse dies that the medic will become the nurse. This will take one day (but the Medic will still be able to perform medic duty during that day).Now, I am well aware that a "very good chance" is probably much better than my likelihood of reviving RA. However, we need to be aware that it is not a sure thing. The second part that I emphasized, however, is perhaps more disturbing. I assume that this means that the soonest Pennywisesb can become the Nurse is Thursday. We vote off RA tomorrow (Tuesday), it takes Pennywise all the next day (Wednesday) to promote, and he can scan people starting the following day (Thursday). That's an AWFUL long time for the spawn to be moving around unchecked. If I revive RA, he is up and around IMMEDIATELY, and can scan the very same day.


I know that this probably will not change any arguments at all, but I wanted to be sure that those who are counting on the 'Bird in the hand' logic aren't guaranteed to get a Nurse out of Pennywise, and if they do, they're waiting an awful long time.

Because we're in a very difficult position right now, however, and because it would be absolutely crippling to the survivors for me to go another day without scanning people and failing at reviving RA, I am willing to scan people instead. I am very opposed to the idea, but I am willing to do it.

Short version -- Pros for reviving RA:

He's a guaranteed good guy.

He probably knows of the other Spawn(s).

He'll be revived immediately if I succeed.

If he's revived, we have a guaranteed Nurse again.

Cons for reviving RA:

I could fail.

He might not know who the Spawn are.

Pennywisesb can become the Nurse even if we kill RA.


Personally, I think the pros outweigh the cons.

As for some other things...

I am 80% comfortable with the people in the brig with me. 10% of that discomfort is nagging doubts about Pennywisesb, and the other 10% of that is that Schmidty is in the Brig with me. I am happy he's there, because that means I am safe. Not only do I trust him, but he's a security guard and can defend me, just in case pennywise is not legit. However...

...by my count, there are only 3 people left who can pefrom the protect action.

Hoopsguy, who is stuck on water detail.

Fouts, who is available.

Schmidty, who is now stuck in the brig with me, RealDeal and Pennywisesb.


If I'm spawn at this stage in the game, I want as many people alive as possible to use up that water supply. Therefore I would be doing everything possible to attack the ship's supplies. Either the Brig, to get at Pennywisesb and myself, or the water supply, to accelerate the dehydration process. Since killing off hoops also hurts our water situation by eliminating the rationing of water (I think I read this at some point during the thread -- I'm too tired to hunt it down to confirm it though), and killing off blade also eliminates the Brig, there are WAY too many targets for the Spawn to have, and not nearly enough warm bodies to protect them. Keeping Schmidty in the brig, while great from a personal standpoint, is terrible from a crew welfare standpoint. At this stage in the game, I think I'm willing to risk putting someone in the brig that we aren't sure of so that we can keep Schmidty out there protecting people. If I get attacked, we have a pretty good blueprint for who to go after, since the brig is isolated.

Wow, that was long. Sorry 'bout that -- I've had a lot to cover :)

[Poli]

Do a good job. Do a good job. Do a good job.

[Raiders Army]

...

[Poli]

[kicks coma boy while he's still alive]

[Blade6119]

i hope enough people werent stupid enough to save him...kwhit would be a trusted captain and it is one less mouth...i pray ardent dies, as he would have been just another suspicious distraction

[Blade6119]

i hope hes guilty, but if not i still think it was a good move to further cut down the list of suspects...water will do it soon, so we might as well take what shots we can

[hoopsguy]

Vince, on the revive RA debate - go with whichever way you see fit. I had not noticed the promotion lag time on the nurse and agree this is a significant factor. I would just ask that we make this decision early enough in the day that we can respond appropriately in terms of other decisions like the brig and lynch/water conversations which will probably dominate the conversation for the remainder of the day.

Just a note for everyone - there are four people who did not get water yesterday. So if those people are denied water again for a 2nd day they either fall over and die or they are spawn. And only six people are getting water tonight, unless game mechanics change between now and then. So that should certainly change the voting dynamic once this information is published.

[Poli]

Good job, hoops. I must say, though, if I'm lynched in a few hours, I'm rooting for the spawn.

[Poli]

I heart you, Jeff.

[Poli]

Staying alive...staying alive.

[Poli]

<DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/inlines/02_cart.jpg <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[cough cough...] <DD>[clang] <DD>[...cough cough] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! Ninepence. <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out... <DD>[rewr!] <DD>...your dead! <DD>[rewr!] <DD>[clang] <DD>Bring out your dead! <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Here's one. <DD>http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/inlines/02_oldmn.jpg <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>Ninepence. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I'm not dead! <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>What? <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Nothing. Here's your ninepence. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I'm not dead! <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>'Ere. He says he's not dead! <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Yes, he is. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I'm not! <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>He isn't? <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Well, he will be soon. He's very ill. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I'm getting better! <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment. <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I don't want to go on the cart! <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Oh, don't be such a baby. <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>I can't take him. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I feel fine! <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Well, do us a favour. <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>I can't. <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long. <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today. <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Well, when's your next round? <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>Thursday. <DT>DEAD PERSON: <DD>I think I'll go for a walk. <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do? <DT>DEAD PERSON: [singing] <DD>I feel happy. I feel happy. <DD>[whop] <DT>CUSTOMER: <DD>Ah, thanks very much. <DT>CART MASTER: <DD>Not at all. See you on Thursday. <DT> </DT>

[Poli]

I feel happy. I feel happy.

[Poli]

I declare if barkeep doesn't have the results posted between 9-10am EST that I remain alive.

[RealDeal]

For the love of god don't waste another scan on reviving RA. The argument that penny won't become a nurse for two days: first, I'm not sure if that's the case-we would have to ask barkeep whether he could san the same day he is promoted, but second, the reason why penny is two days from being a nurse (if that is true) is because we didn't do what we were supposed to do yesterday. If we keep not promoting him, it's self-fulfilling logic that it will take too long before he can do a scan.

There is something completely fishy about the way Vince and AE are so dedicated to keeping penny from becoming a nurse.

[Poli]

I can't live....if living is without you....

[Poli]

<DD>Miracle Max: See, there's a big difference between mostly dead, and all dead. Now, mostly dead: he's slightly alive. All dead, well, with all dead, there's usually only one thing that you can do. <DD>Inigo: What's that? <DD>Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change. </DD>

[Poli]

Vizzini: You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The first is never get involved in a land war in Asia. The second, only slightly less well known, is this: never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line!

[Poli]

http://www.sillyone.com/movies/princess_bride/princess_bride_113.jpg

Got

[Poli]

http://www.sillyone.com/movies/princess_bride/princess_bride_113.jpg

Got you

[Poli]

http://www.sillyone.com/movies/princess_bride/princess_bride_280.jpg

Raiders Army is only "mostly dead."

[hoopsguy]

Boy I wish that Barkeep would post the night actions so we can keep this moving forward. Not that "Bring out your dead" and "Vizzini" aren't amusing in their own way ...

[Poli]

I do what I can. :)

[jeff061]

Anybody want a peanut?

[Barkeep49]

After the surprising action of the Captain Ardent Entusiast the question remains will he wake up or not? In the end a group of 8, opposed by 5, with Lathum, Passacagalia, and Mr. Wednesday not being found, decided to lynch their Captain. The only evidence of this that exists in the morning, is the note, complete with hints of bloody fingerprints, that hangs in the mess hall with the simple words He was a survivor.

While Ardent was "taken care of" a few crew members, who might or might have supported the mutiny, were busy at work. Fouts stood guard at the Security Headquarters, while Hoopsguy remained loyally at his post by the Water Plant and SnDvls was near Warden Blade's quarters. All else was quiet.

Ship’s Status

Room Reports
Engineering – Fully Operational
Water Plant – Fully Operational
Water Supply – .75 units (Enough for three people)
Security Headquarters Fully Operational
Brig – Empty
Weapons Locker – 6 phasers

Crew Status

Command Staff
Captain - KWhit
First Officer - RealDeal
Second Officer - Lathum

Engineers
Saldana
Mr.Wednesday
MrBug708
jeff061
Bek

Medical Staff
Doctor - Vince
Nurse - Raiders Army COMA
Medic - pennywisesb

Security Staff
Sergeant at Arms - sndlvs EXHAUSTED
Warden - Blade6119
Galley Master - hoopsguy EXHAUSTED
Security Crewman - Fouts EXHAUSTED
Security Crewman - Schmidty
Security Crewman - Passacaglia

Deceased
Marc Vaughan Executed Day 2 (Spawn)
Dubb93 Executed Day 3 (Hive Mind)
Kingfc22 Killed Night 3 (Survivor)
Jeff062 Killed by Captain Ardent's Orders Day 5 (Survivor)
Ardent Enthusiast Killed by mutiny Night 5 (Survivor)

[Poli]

Don't kill me!!!

[Poli]

I'll take some popcorn shortly.

[Raiders Army]

...

[Poli]

We come on the sloop john b
My grandfather and me
Around nassau town we did roam
Drinking all night
Got into a fight
Well I feel so broke up
I want to go home

So hoist up the john b’s sail
See how the mainsail sets
Call for the captain ashore
Let me go home, let me go home
I wanna go home, yeah yeah
Well I feel so broke up
I wanna go home

The first mate he got drunk
And broke in the cap’n’s trunk
The constable had to come and take him away
Sheriff john stone
Why don’t you leave me alone, yeah yeah
Well I feel so broke up I wanna go home

So hoist up the john b’s sail
See how the mainsail sets
Call for the captain ashore
Let me go home, let me go home
I wanna go home, let me go home
Why don’t you let me go home
(hoist up the john b’s sail)
Hoist up the john b
I feel so broke up I wanna go home
Let me go home

The poor cook he caught the fits
And threw away all my grits
And then he took and he ate up all of my corn
Let me go home
Why don’t they let me go home
This is the worst trip I’ve ever been on

So hoist up the john b’s sail
See how the mainsail sets
Call for the captain ashore
Let me go home, let me go home
I wanna go home, let me go home
Why don’t you let me go home

[Passacaglia]

Wow. This thread has taken two interesting turns.

[Raiders Army]

Wow. This thread has taken two interesting turns.
Is it two right hand turns, a right hand turn and a left hand turn, a left hand turn and a right hand turn, or two left hand turns?

[SnDvls]

so now two people didn't protect last night that could and one was so upset that they didn't have a phaser the other night to protect they didn't even protect again last night.

Why have a security crew to protect when they don't. I guess we got lucky that nothing/no one important was attacked last night.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, can you post the water actions as well? There are likely to be a couple of thirsty people today.

[RealDeal]

OK. We still have a chance to win, but we have to get our shit together fast.

Here's what needs to be done. Please note we have enough water for THREE people. So killing survivors isn't a big problem compared to dying of thirst.

Here are the steps to having a chance to win:

1. Vince scans Kwhit and Lathum using short scans. If Vince dies, he dies. Remember we only have water for THREE people. If Vince refuses to do the scans, Kwhit orders him. If Kwhit refuses to order him, Kwhit is probably a spawn.

2. We lynch RA tonight.

3. The next day Vince does tw more short scans and penny does a short scan.

I'm guessing there are no more than one or two spawn left, so we should use our scanners like kamikazee missles.

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, congratulations on the promotion. For what it is worth, I don't place quite as much stock in the absolute trust as several other posters. I value publicly revealed secret roles, as shown by actions, more. Particularly when they took place after there is no chance for a conversion to have transpired. So Saldana's actions yesterday have him very high on my list of trust. I also recognize that Absolute Trust does not have a physical manifestation. And the fact that the three people reporting the Trust all are covering for each other (no 'wait a minute, I don't trust that guy!') is also favorable.

So I think a determination needs to be made as early as possible on how to proceed with Raiders. This can be made by a few people - either the doc or by a direct order. We can have conversation on this again today - Vince did bring up a point about the medic/nurse one-day lag that I had not factored in yesterday. But it also feels like people dug into their positions on this pretty deeply yesterday. For what it is worth, I'm fine with whatever course of action we choose here, but want to see it done earlier rather than later so we can react to the news.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, will we have 1.5 units of water tonight? Is the .75 what has been produced since I allocated yesterday's water, but it will be 1.5 when I have to allocate today? Or have I missed something in terms of the water production?

[hoopsguy]

Real, I did not give Raiders water last night. So we should not lynch him. I'm waiting for Barkeep to reveal the other actions on water, but I feel safe putting that one out without confirmation (I had to list the order to process no-water commands).

[hoopsguy]

Also, I think it imperative for Vince to scan Penny today prior to promoting him if we are going to go down this path.

[Passacaglia]

I have a question. Only the queen can launch a spawn attack. When Vince was attacked, doesn't that mean that the queen had to be in the brig?

[Passacaglia]

OK. We still have a chance to win, but we have to get our shit together fast.

Here's what needs to be done. Please note we have enough water for THREE people. So killing survivors isn't a big problem compared to dying of thirst.

Here are the steps to having a chance to win:

1. Vince scans Kwhit and Lathum using short scans. If Vince dies, he dies. Remember we only have water for THREE people. If Vince refuses to do the scans, Kwhit orders him. If Kwhit refuses to order him, Kwhit is probably a spawn.

2. We lynch RA tonight.

3. The next day Vince does tw more short scans and penny does a short scan.

I'm guessing there are no more than one or two spawn left, so we should use our scanners like kamikazee missles.

If KWhit is a spawn, how do we get him, now that he's the captain.

There is definitely more than one spawn.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'll even buy a youth pull for over market price if I'm lieing to you.Now let's not be hasty... you need that money to pay Lyon's salary. :D

[Raiders Army]

If you want blood.....you got it.

[hoopsguy]

From what I read, he was attacked, not spawn attacked, while in the brig. He was spawn attacked the night before, and he had cured himself.

I would expect that he would have been spawn attacked if the Queen was in the brig. I still don't have Pennywise as completely cleared (Vince's 2-3 attackers news) but given that King was not a spawn, it seems tremendously unlucky for there to have been 3 spawn and Vince placed in the brig.

[hoopsguy]

Mutiny is the only way to get the captain that I can see if he is spawn.

[Mr. Wednesday]

If we can vote for him, though, we would be able to trigger a mutiny vote by forcing him to dictate the lynch victim, correct?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I've still got one empath scan left. At this point, if we can pick out a good person to use it on, all I need is a definitive "I am not spawn" statement from them.

[Raiders Army]

"I am not spawn"

[hoopsguy]

And if the captain isn't overruling a lynching, then the only way to get a mutiny is from a vote from one of the officers. And the first officer must be in favor of the mutiny. Which means that if KWhit and RealDeal were spawn then we would be screwed. Particularly with Lathum as the 2nd Officer, given his long periods of inactivity this game.

Given the relationships matrix that I posted earlier, the people who are not coupled with someone right now include me, Blade, and Lathum. There is some risk in eliminating any of us beyond a normal survivor at this point.
- Hoopsguy: water goes to random, instead of decision process
- Blade: no brig
- Lathum: one less person who can declare a mutiny, no alternative for 1st Officer behind RealDeal

Barkeep, are we basically stuck without being able to have any other officers for the remainder of the game? I would think that as our numbers diminish that someone could assume some kind of a higher rank but the rules do not provide for this.

[Barkeep49]

"I am not spawn"
Quiet Nixon :)

[pennywisesb]

KWit is not spawn. I can vouch for him. Neither is Bek or else I would have been notified. I want Vince to scan me today so that we can get on with this. I think its very important that I be promoted so that we can scan as many people as possible as RD had stated. We don't have anymore time to be messing around.

[hoopsguy]

Mr. Wednedsay, the one I would like to make that statement would be
1.) KWhit
2.) Vince - more about his role than really thinking he is, but absolute assurance on doc is important
3.) Blade
4.) Lathum

I'll put it out there for you to use if you want to go this direction.

I am not spawn.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - KWhit is largely role-based as well, since displacing the captain isn't necessarily easy.

[Barkeep49]

To answer questions:

1. Everyone got water last night. I had you send in a water list in case the Spawn successfully attacked the Water Plant, which would have created a shortage. At the end of yesterday you had 3.25 units of water. This morning you got another 1.5 giving you 4.75. People then consumed 4 units (16*.25) leaving you with a reserve of .75 units.

2. Officers cannot be replaced. That's what the ensign was for. The ensign is now of couse the Second Officer, so he's done OK for himself :).

3. Remember it's possible to do a Day Mutiny or a Night Mutiny. The conditions are just slightly different.

I think that was all for the moment. If not please repost and I will answer.

[Lathum]

I've still got one empath scan left. At this point, if we can pick out a good person to use it on, all I need is a definitive "I am not spawn" statement from them.
I am not a spawn..

You can scan me, please do...

please

[hoopsguy]

Nasty on the water - I had assumed that we would have allocated the 3.25 yesterday and had 1.5 to work with today and tomorrow. This changes my calculations quite a bit ... pretty much everyone is thirsty tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

For those who might be questioning MrW having another scan, Post #1 in the rules does say that this can be used two times. And in Post #914 Mr. Wednesday indicates that he checked on one, not two, statements.

This looks legit to me. The empath can retain (50/50) his abilities as spawn, but his information on Day 3 was critical to the lynching of the Hive Mind.

[hoopsguy]

Also, with water for three people today and six tomorrow I definitely would like to have the thoughts of our officers on what they consider optimal water allocation. We can only keep nine alive with water here, which means almost half the crew is dead.

Also, from here on out I will publish my water selections after submitting them in order to avoid any confusion in the event that I'm killed in the night. I don't want the spawn to say, 'Hoopsguy must have lied about who he gave water' so I'll take the heat during night actions rather than wait until morning from here on out.

[Poli]

GO SPAWN!

[jeff061]

Thanks to you they have a good shot ;)

[pennywisesb]

GO SPAWN!

Thats not very nice AE.

[Poli]

Noted, but neither was killing a survivor captain.

[Poli]

I should keep quiet. I am dead, after all. Go spawn, and I'm out.

[hoopsguy]

AE, I made the best case I could for you. Unfortunately I couldn't make an airtight one. I'm not sure people were listening to me, anyways.

[jeff061]

Heh, I wish I was alive to argue more, but I already stated my case on King, it wasn't crappy, that's where it differs :D.

[Poli]

I know. I appreciate it. Let it be known, my hattrick defense is my failsafe. I will not pay 20 bucks for a lie. Ever.

[Barkeep49]

Please remember the dead (or near dead) should stay silent until the post game discussion. Thank you.

[Raiders Army]

...

[Bek]

*puts tape over RA mouth*

[hoopsguy]

One problem is we have many of our more active players out of the game at this point, while people with more limited access are not around at the moment to contribute.

I'll be around, waiting for some kind of new data to act on.
1.) Discussion on heal RA vs scan someone (who?)
2.) MrWed empath power
3.) Feedback on water
4.) News from last night
5.) Any kind of accusation

Bek, what are your thoughts on Blade in this game? He has gunned hard for Vince, who was considered a known good at the time (Day 3) and Ardent last night, who was proven innocent in his death.

His role reveal doesn't require any collaboration. I think the only thing saving him from a great deal of pressure is that he runs the brig.

[pennywisesb]

Bek, what are your thoughts on Blade in this game? He has gunned hard for Vince, who was considered a known good at the time (Day 3) and Ardent last night, who was proven innocent in his death.

His role reveal doesn't require any collaboration. I think the only thing saving him from a great deal of pressure is that he runs the brig.

At this point I'm getting more and more suspicious of Blade too. I figured the Vince vote could have just been a mistake on his part, but he was really going after AE yesterday eventhough AE had been cleared as a survivor in an earlier scan. I also don't like the fact that he's been PMing with Bek and "knew" all of the absolute trust before we had comeout.

I say we lynch RA tonight or let him die from dehydration, whichever comes first. First off, we don't even know the odds of reviving him, Vince or Barkeep have never stated that, so for all we know it could be a 10% chance. If one of them wants to come forward and let us know, then I'm willing to give it a shot if the odds are pretty good at reviving him, otherwise he's no use to us and we can't afford to not be scanning at this point.

I know of 3 people who are definately not spawn: KWit, Bek, and myself. I have a good feeling Vince is also not spawn. So, if I can be promoted ASAP, and Vince and I start scanning, we have a pretty narrow scope of possible spawn meaning we have a good chance of hitting one. Any comments on this idea?

[RealDeal]

1. Vince needs to do two short scans today. We don't have much time. Kwhit should be one of the scans. Perhaps Penny should be the other.

2. Vince should coordinate with Mr. Wednesday. MW's empathic ability can work like a scan.

3. RA=RIP. Penny gets a scan.

[pennywisesb]

1. Vince needs to do two short scans today. We don't have much time. Kwhit should be one of the scans. Perhaps Penny should be the other.

2. Vince should coordinate with Mr. Wednesday. MW's empathic ability can work like a scan.

3. RA=RIP. Penny gets a scan.

I couldn't of said it better myself.

[pennywisesb]

RD is slowly joining my circle of trust at this point.

[hoopsguy]

I'm all for a sense of urgency, but unless we know how many spawn are out there I don't see how we know if we have much time or not.

If either Vince or Barkeep have any information to add on the percentage behind "a chance" to revive Raiders I would love to hear it.

Vince, if you are considering scans for today I think doing Pennywise would also help in terms of RealDeal. He has pushed very hard for his plan of action. I have felt up to this point that it is because he believes it is the correct path. But scanning Pennywise helps clear both of these two in my eyes, as well as getting us closer to having a second scanner in Pennywise.

[Bek]

Bek, what are your thoughts on Blade in this game? He has gunned hard for Vince, who was considered a known good at the time (Day 3) and Ardent last night, who was proven innocent in his death.

His role reveal doesn't require any collaboration. I think the only thing saving him from a great deal of pressure is that he runs the brig.

I would have to agree with this...he was pushing very hard for ardent but he is lucky to have his public role as the warden...otherwise i think he would have been killed off a long time ago

[Barkeep49]

It isn't the best of chances, but it's not a stab in the dark either.

[RealDeal]

I definitely think penny should be scanned. I can't personally vouch for him. I clear Pass, not Penny.

[hoopsguy]

Just making sure, RealDeal. Originally you said that Vince should use two short scans on KWhit and Lathum. I want to see us with two people having scans, but more importantly want to have absolute trust in the people running the scans.

[RealDeal]

Yeah that's fine. As long as there are two scans, and the two scans are on two uncleared people I am happy. Lathum is fine, penny is fine, Kwhit is fine. But if you get down to brass tacks, Kwhit and penny probably are most important.

[Vince]

Well, I still think that our best option is to revive RA. I've said it before, I've said it a hundred times. But it seems like doing that is only going to give me more of a bad rep, and when we finally do get Pennywisesb to be the Nurse, though this will take until Thursday, not tomorrow, he'd just have to waste a scan on me. That's a lot of time to waste, but so is me failing at RA again, if it happens.

I'll give you guys a few more minutes to discuss the idea of reviving RA instead of scanning, since I really think it's the right move. But I have to work again today, so I'm out from 12 to about 5 PST. I'll post my actions in a few minutes.

PS -- I do not know my chances for reviving RA. Barkeep hasn't told me, and I would assume that he does not want to reveal the information (since many people have asked about it in the thread already).

[pennywisesb]

Scan me please. I've been saying it for two days. Hopefully Vince will agree. I know how important it will be to show I'm clean, because the last thing the survivors need is a spawn scanning people. Also, if I'm cleared in a scan, KWit and Bek will also be cleared by default meaning we don't have to waste scans on them.

[Bek]

why scan kwhit, we knows he's clean and it would just be a waste?

[RealDeal]

Why do we know kwhit is clean? Has he been cleared at some point?

[RealDeal]

barkeep: if RA dies tonight, and penny becomes a nurse, when will penny get his first scan?

[pennywisesb]

Vince, you can keep trying to revive him and keep failing for all we know, and we keep missing out on scans. We can't afford this. If you had listened yesterday, I would be able to scan tomorrow, now its another day before I can because you were so stubborn.

[Vince]

Barkeep -- is hoopsguy limited to only rationing water when we don't have enough for everyone? Because if (as it seems to be the case) I'm not going to be reviving RA today, I think it would be better if we could let him die by dehydration, allowing us to lynch someone else as well. That way we can find out about three people today -- my two scans, and lynch someone else. If hoops isn't limited to only rationing water when we don't have enough, I think that you could go back and modify last night's actions, because it might be a big shift in the survivors' favor. One less mouth to feed, another person cleared, etc, etc.

At the moment, I am perfectly happy with Blade biting the dust. I think that there is only one spawn left (if there were more than one, I think that there would be more night actions going on, and that they might have been more successful at attacks and such), and so even if I'm outside the brig and 'vulnerable,' I would be safe as long as Schmidty or Fouts (or both) can protect me. At this point, I'm not even sure the spawn would target me, as the water supply seems to be the all-important location at this point.

[RealDeal]

Vince, every day you try to revive RA we could have gotten two scans from you. You need to go kamikazee and take a spawn out. There can't be more than one or two left.

[pennywisesb]

RD, Bek, KWit and I would all be notified if one of us was turned. I guess its just a trust issue for those of you not in the absolute trust though. If you scan me and I'm clean, that pretty much guarantees Bek and KWit are clean.

[Raiders Army]

...

[Vince]

Vince, you can keep trying to revive him and keep failing for all we know, and we keep missing out on scans. We can't afford this. If you had listened yesterday, I would be able to scan tomorrow, now its another day before I can because you were so stubborn.
Dude, I have gone over my points like fifteen times, in two or three posts that would make Chief Rum blush for length and breadth. Yes, you could have already been on the way to being a nurse. However, RA could have been up and around yesterday, already scanning people. Also, you could fail to become the nurse, and then we've lost ALL chance of having a second scanner.

[hoopsguy]

Vince, here is my last argument for going with the Pennywise direction. We are on limited water now. Only three people are getting water tonight. I can allocate water to six people tomorrow. That means, at most, we will have nine people remaining Thursday morning.

If we have a failed revival attempt today on RA then we once again have to head down this path tomorrow (revive RA or let him die of thirst?). If we go the Pennywise direction then we accomplish the following:
1.) Complete a scan today
2.) Know that we are going with a high-percentage play for having a nurse tomorrow
3.) Provide some clarity for me on who I need to give water to tonight. I don't know if my water provisioning is processed before or after a kill, but my order will have to go in this evening (assuming I'm not lynched today)

We are obviously giving up something in losing RA. But I can't quantify the info he will hold or the likelihood of success based on the information available at this time.

[Bek]

and if kwhit isnt clean i can tell you that he is clean and is in no danger to us...i found out that he is a clean with the absolute trust...i just down see why we would need to waste a scan on him

[pennywisesb]

It seems as though the spawn's play right now is catered to us becoming too dehydrated and dying. They haven't made any night attacks that we know of, and I think they are just trying to play it safe and let us make the mistakes. If they were to attack and kill someone at this point, they'd actually be helping us because less water would be needed.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I can't ration water until there isn't enough for everyone. I would like to have allocated it yesterday, but that did not end up being an option.

[Bek]

It seems as though the spawn's play right now is catered to us becoming too dehydrated and dying. They haven't made any night attacks that we know of, and I think they are just trying to play it safe and let us make the mistakes. If they were to attack and kill someone at this point, they'd actually be helping us because less water would be needed.

yep i would agree

[Vince]

Right now, here's my ideal situation if I am giving up on Raiders Army.



I scan Pennywisesb

I scan Lathum.

RA dies of dehydration.

We lynch Blade.


I think at this point Blade is the most expendable. The brig is less important now with very little time left for us -- it'd almost be worth it for me to be a target of attack now so that there is a chance, however small, that they fail to go after the water. I also have very high suspicions of Blade, between his hardcore attempts to get me killed a few days ago, and his suspicious actions since.

I might catch a creature with Lathum and Pennywisesb, but I probably won't, just on simple probability. Does anyone have a problem with this reasoning?

[pennywisesb]

Dude, I have gone over my points like fifteen times, in two or three posts that would make Chief Rum blush for length and breadth. Yes, you could have already been on the way to being a nurse. However, RA could have been up and around yesterday, already scanning people. Also, you could fail to become the nurse, and then we've lost ALL chance of having a second scanner.


YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE FEELING THIS WAY VINCE. Get over it. You are basing all this on the idea that you think RA definately knows who the other spawns are. What if you do actually revive him and he doesn't know? what then? At least you know its a very good chance I'll get promoted. We still don't know the odds for reviving him. All barkeep said is its not a shot in the dark, what the heck does that mean? 20%? 15%? WE DON'T KNOW. Sorry that we're pushing for the more appropriate route for the team here. Apparently you can't see that though.

[Vince]

Well, I've just put in my orders to short scan Lathum and Pennywise. We'll see what becomes of them.

[pennywisesb]

I also agree that the brig is not that important anymore because the spawn haven't even been attacking lately. I think they really are just trying to lay low and hope we don't have sufficient water. Along this line of thinking Blade also becomes expendable and I'm leaning towards voting for him because of this.

[Barkeep49]

One day cycle must pass before Penny can become nurse. If you were to lynch Raiders today, Thursday would be the earliest he would be a nurse. You would know, however, whether or not he was becoming nurse tomorrow.

[RealDeal]

There was no mathematical way we could lose yesterday until we went down this heal RA route. This just makes me nuts. There was no way we could lose! Is there something going on here I don't know about? Why was our captain and our doctor obsessed with reviving the guy in a coma. All we had to do was play out the game, doing scans and lynchings on uncleared people. It makes me feel like half the team is either spawn or purposely trying to lose.

Yesterday the spawn had to be sitting there thinking, "wow I (or we) are fucked unless they do something like waste a bunch of scans on the guy in the coma- wait, you got to be kidding me, they just wasted scans on the guy in a coma! WOOHOO".

The best we can tell from barkeep is the chance of reviving RA is less than 50%. That's bad odds to me. I know if we go down my path, there is a 100% chance that we get two scans in today and we have another scanner on the way. If both of your scans today come up clean, we get two more scans tomorrow. We've got the spawn narrowed down to a reasonable list of people. Using our scans and lynches, we can mow through them.

[pennywisesb]

Well, I've just put in my orders to short scan Lathum and Pennywise. We'll see what becomes of them.


Are you actually going to do this or are you going to pull a fast one again? ;)

[RealDeal]

And Vince, I am fully happy to lynch Blade. He deserves it anyway :)

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, as of now, could be scanned by MrWednesday since he followed with the "I am not a spawn" plan earlier this morning. I would go with someone else.

I know that the Absolute Trust guys are saying that KWhit is clean, but the rest of us have no information along these lines. And with him as the captain we need as much certainty as possible. He would be high on my list.

Everyone got water last night, which means that Raiders did as well. So it will take two days to kill by denying water. Which means if we want Penny to be acting nurse tomorrow then we have to lynch Raiders tonight.

So that puts Blade on the list to scan for today as well. I think he would also be a good option.

I'm fine with you scanning me if you want some assurances that I haven't been trying to set you up for the past couple of days.

[Vince]

Dude, is it just me, or are posts totally jumping around in this thread?

[jeff061]

I think someones deleting posts.

[pennywisesb]

There was no mathematical way we could lose yesterday until we went down this heal RA route. This just makes me nuts. There was no way we could lose! Is there something going on here I don't know about? Why was our captain and our doctor obsessed with reviving the guy in a coma. All we had to do was play out the game, doing scans and lynchings on uncleared people. It makes me feel like half the team is either spawn or purposely trying to lose.

Yesterday the spawn had to be sitting there thinking, "wow I (or we) are fucked unless they do something like waste a bunch of scans on the guy in the coma- wait, you got to be kidding me, they just wasted scans on the guy in a coma! WOOHOO".

The best we can tell from barkeep is the chance of reviving RA is less than 50%. That's bad odds to me. I know if we go down my path, there is a 100% chance that we get two scans in today and we have another scanner on the way. If both of your scans today come up clean, we get two more scans tomorrow. We've got the spawn narrowed down to a reasonable list of people. Using our scans and lynches, we can mow through them.

I agree with you RD. I'm so frustrated right now at the turn of events. Almost the entire team seemed to be on our side and two people decided to take the game into their own hands and completely turn the tide for the worst. Its very important at this point that any actions we take be decided upon by the entire team.

[RealDeal]

I'm sure every single person in this game has at one point claimed they are a villager, so MW should be able to find a statement like that for everyone.

[Barkeep49]

Vince, listening to the please of his crew mates, takes first Lathum and then penny into his offce. Both emerge after an hour or so.

[Barkeep49]

I think someones deleting posts.
I hope that's not true.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, are you the one deleting posts here? If it is anyone else there should be an explanation.

I've listed post #'s many times to direct people back to earlier actions. I'm annoyed that this is getting messed with by anyone that isn't Barkeep acting in the best interests of our game.

[RealDeal]

Sounds like Lathum and Penny are clean.

[Vince]

I think someones deleting posts.
I think this would be a terrible way to out someone, but whoever is doing this should look awfully suspicious at this point.

Well, Lathum and Pennywisesb are clean. They both come out 100% survivor. Hoops, I'm bummed I missed your point on MrW and his empath ability for Lathum -- that would have been huge. Why not have him clear KWhit? I'm certain there's a post by KWhit somewhere in there -- like RealDeal said, there's probably a post by everyone at this point claiming to be a good guy.

[jeff061]

Ardent's deleting posts.

[RealDeal]

Defintely someone deleting posts.

[jeff061]

Ardent's post count had gone down 20 in the last minute...

[Vince]

Ah. Is it just the "..." ones? Still annoying, but harmless.

[dubb93]

I think someones deleting posts.

I'm out of the game, but still following along, and this would probably be about the least cool thing that could happen. Come on guys, its a game, there is no reason to delete posts(it screws with post #'s, etc.). And by the way this thread did lose 2 pages since about 10 minutes ago.

[hoopsguy]

I'll see if I can find something from KWhit that says this. If I was a bad guy I would like to think I would have been cautious about this in light of the Empathic role. Since KWhit has never been under real duress during a vote there might not be such a statement.

KWhit, you could make this easy on us when you come online and post "I am not a spawn"

[jeff061]

Don't know why he or anyone would, I think we have good people in this game.

[Vince]

Ok guys, I'm off to work in a few minutes, but I think our course of action is clear for today. I want to kill blade (who doesn't? :) -- just kidding big guy), but RA needs to go down so we can get Penny to be the nurse. Since I've given up on my crusade to save RA (sorry buddy -- I tried. Ardent helped, so be nice to him once you all meet up in a few hours), we need to go 100% towards getting Pennywisesb to be the Nurse.

I vote Raiders Army.

[pennywisesb]

Ok, I came out clean. I claim to be part of the absolute trust. I also claim KWit is part of the absolute trust. Do we really need to waste a scan on him?

[RealDeal]

Is RA going to die of dehydration tonight if we don't lynch him?

[pennywisesb]

Is RA going to die of dehydration tonight if we don't lynch him?

NO, which sucks

[RealDeal]

Fuck. Fine. vote RA

[pennywisesb]

I think we need to scan Hoopsguy just to make sure. I don't like the fact that he's pushing for a scan of KWit--someone 2 of us know of as being clean. Seems like a waste of a scan to me.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, so the trust group is cleared -- who does that leave as possible spawn? Keeping in mind there is more than one.

[hoopsguy]

Post #1436 is the closest I can see for KWhit after going through a few hundred posts.
Dude, scan me all you want. It would be a waste, but whatever blows your hair back.

I'll keep looking for a little while longer, but finding any one post is getting increasingly difficult.

[Bek]

I think we need to scan Hoopsguy just to make sure. I don't like the fact that he's pushing for a scan of KWit--someone 2 of us know of as being clean. Seems like a waste of a scan to me.

agreed...so tonight are we killing of RA then is what im seeing...if thats the case then

VOTE RA
unless someone comes up with good evidence against someone else

[hoopsguy]

Please scan me. It would be the first time this game that I've been in a position of trust. Just to make it easier for MrWednesday again: I am not a spawn.

Or don't scan me and scan someone else. I'm fine with that too, although I would prefer not to be lynched.

Vote Raiders Army

Today is one of those days where there is nothing to be gained in splitting the votes. We'll have to rely on other days for voting patterns, sacrificing this for the goal of getting Penny as nurse is worth it.

[Schmidty]

Vote Raiders Army

[hoopsguy]

Penny, Bek - for what it is worth the reason I'm including KWhit in the scan is because just about everyone has been cleared by someone in the game.

Outside of me, the only person who hasn't been cleared by someone is SnDvls. So put him on your radar as well.

[pennywisesb]

Vote RA I really think Hoops needs to be scanned ASAP. Mr. Wednesday, I think you have someone to use your ability on.

[Blade6119]

I HATE YOU ALL, IVE BEEN BEGGING TO BE SCANNED FOR LIKE 5 DAYS NOW AND EVERY DAY VINCE FINDS A REASON NOT TOO!!! GAH!!!!

[pennywisesb]

SnDvls too, and that can be my first scan when I'm promoted, or Vince can do two shorties again tomorrow including him as one. I just don't like that you are pushing for a scan on someone that multiple people claim to be clean at this point. Thats only a wasted scan at this point.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - and KWhit is the captain, which means we need a mutiny. For this to succeed we need to have officers, which may become a problem over the next couple of days as water shrinks up. I would rather try and have our mutiny today rather than at the end of the week if we need to go that way.

Remember, I was also looking at worst-case scenarios with Vince. Who I still say should be the first scan target for Pennywise tomorrow.

[Blade6119]

Penny, Bek - for what it is worth the reason I'm including KWhit in the scan is because just about everyone has been cleared by someone in the game.

Outside of me, the only person who hasn't been cleared by someone is SnDvls. So put him on your radar as well.

Actually, no one has cleared me that im aware of...now, sundvls did spy on me last night it looks like, but that shouldnt have told him a thing...ive never been exhausted, im not out doing stuff in the night

[hoopsguy]

Blade - say it with me:
I AM NOT A SPAWN

MrWednesday would probably like to have the option to clear you as well.

[Blade6119]

Okay, so the trust group is cleared -- who does that leave as possible spawn? Keeping in mind there is more than one.

If you listen to most people it leaves Useless Warden Blade and Useless Warden Blade :(

[pennywisesb]

Blade, quit trying to draw attention to yourself.

[Blade6119]

Blade - say it with me:
I AM NOT A SPAWN

MrWednesday would probably like to have the option to clear you as well.
Have i not been saying that for like a bloody week???? I AM NOT A SPAWN, but everyday we find some reason to scan everyone but me, which makes me nervous about vince that he hasnt found anyone yet because i know im clean

[Vince]

Blade, honestly the reason I'm not scanning you is because we can afford to kill you. It's brutal, I know, but you're not really providing anything of benefit to us at this point in the game.

Remember that pennywise can't scan until Thursday at the earliest.

[Passacaglia]

I'm with you guys. As much as it pains me to kill a spawn, not that penny is cleared, I can support promoting him to nurse.

Vote Raiders Army

[Blade6119]

Blade, quit trying to draw attention to yourself.

I want the attention so somebody scans me...everyone seems to forget about me come orders time

[Vince]

I'm with you guys. As much as it pains me to kill a spawn, not that penny is cleared, I can support promoting him to nurse.

Vote Raiders Army
Heh, casual slip of the tongue, or something else entirely? If I remember correctly RealDeal cleared you way back when, but...

[Vince]

And I'm really out this time. Hopefully I'll be back in time for some last minute observations, but I can't be certain.

[pennywisesb]

I'm with you guys. As much as it pains me to kill a spawn, not that penny is cleared, I can support promoting him to nurse.

Vote Raiders Army

What the hell does this mean? The first sentence is completely shady, and I'm not quite sure why I'm not cleared considering Vince cleared me about 10 minutes ago.

[Blade6119]

Blade, honestly the reason I'm not scanning you is because we can afford to kill you. It's brutal, I know, but you're not really providing anything of benefit to us at this point in the game.

Remember that pennywise can't scan until Thursday at the earliest.

If thats the case, i hope when you kill me and spend your first free night someone pays you a visit

[hoopsguy]

OK, now Mr Wednesday has two good options for his empathic power - take your pick between Blade or me.

So anyone have ideas for who I should give water tonight? I'm looking for something to talk about between now and when Barkeep/Vince publish the results of the scan.

3 today, 6 tomorrow - should I assume we want to max our number of survivors at 9 or do we want to go for a lower number than that (by giving water to same three as part of six next day) and see who is still alive that was supposed to be dead? I would favor the nine survivor strategy, at least initially since we will already be seeing a lot of turnover when we cut down to 9 (more than that if a spawn lived).

[RealDeal]

ok here's the list:

Captain - KWhit, penny says he's in circle of trust and penny cleared
First Officer - RealDeal- used duplicant power
Second Officer - Lathum- cleared by Vince

Engineers
Saldana- used duplicant power
X-Mr.Wednesday- claims emphatic ability, not actually clear but has been helpful
MrBug708 -cleared by Saldana scan
X-bek- claims to be in circle of trust, not sure if someone cleared can confirm

Medical Staff
Doctor - Vince- scan be me, cleared
Nurse - Raiders Army COMA
Medic - pennywisesb- cleared by Vince

Security Staff
XSergeant at Arms - sndlvs EXHAUSTED not cleared
XWarden - Blade6119- not cleared claims to be in COT
XGalley Master - hoopsguy EXHAUSTED- not cleared
XSecurity Crewman - Fouts EXHAUSTED-not cleared
Security Crewman - Schmidty-cleared by Vince
Security Crewman - Passacaglia- cleared by me

[hoopsguy]

I don't think Vince or Barkeep have published the scan results yet - if they did I missed it. You are very close to being cleared, Penny. But not yet unless I missed a post.

[Blade6119]

XWarden - Blade6119- not cleared claims to be in COT

Whats the COT?

[RealDeal]

As suspicious as I am of Blade, MW should scan hoopsguy. Here's why: we can still win this game by simply letting all uncleared people die of thirst. But if HG is not on the up and up he can screw us at the end and withhold H2O from the survivors.

[pennywisesb]

There's no reason to scan Blade right now in my opinion. Did anyone else see what PAss typed? If he really did slip up, then that puts all the suspicion on him and then RD for clearing him at the beginning. I'm interested in seeing how he answers this. We might want to scan RD or Pass and make sure one of them is clean. If ones not, we can guarantee the other isn't either.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I don't think that Blade has claimed to be in Absolute Trust - just knew about it from talking with Bek out of game (tsk, tsk).

I thought there was some kind of linkage between Fouts and Jeff, insofar as Fouts knew that Vigilante Jeff had used a knife to kill King. Not exactly the same as clearing him, but at least suggesting he spied on Jeff as he had indicated that night.

[pennywisesb]

You missed the post. Vince posted the results. I'll try to find it.

[RealDeal]

I vouch for Pass. i personally scanned him. To the extent you trust me, you should trust him. Of course, if you don't trust me by now, then you shouldn't trust him either.

[Barkeep49]

Typically the crew wears their standard uniforms. Privates wear red, for instnace. Typically security staff wears a lovely shade of yellow. Today, however, when Blade posts the list of people who will spend the night in the brig, that he is wearing neon green. Is it a bid to get attention from people he's feeling ignored by? Who knows. What is known is that Vince, Bek, Kwhit, & Pennywise will be in the brig tonight.