WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[Chief Rum]

Yesterday I went with claphamsa as my choice in the face of a (then) runaway vote.

I see no reason to change. His voting record still looks bad to me.

I can be talked into a few others--i.e. saldana, some others--but I am going to get my vote in early for once and see what develops.

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2501:

2 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467)
2 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501)
1 - saldana - Latham (2481)
1 - Lathum - saldana (2494)

[dubb93]

Catching up.

[Lathum]

again...you posted links to all the posts i made about you, but what is missing is the time stamps from them...with one exception, they are all from the hour long window otherwise known as my lunch break.

why are you continuing to exaggerate the truth?

1 hour hardly equals "all day" or "kept coming at me"...hoops asked me if i had any theories or analysis, and i gave it to him....your over the top defensiveness is actually more suspicious to me than my own theory was

i doubt i will get any backing with this, but i for one have had my fill of lathum jumping all over people with his "how dare you suspect me" attitude, and his unconfirmed triggered mechanic....i feel like i am playing with blade again. :D

vote lathum

while I agree 1 hour doesn't equal all day, in that 1 hour you managed to try and cast suspicion on me several times. Show me where I jumped on anyone. All I did was defend my position and my gameplay when you attacked it.

You know what I have had my fill of? People saying I have this "attitude." I think I politely defend my self when questioned and lay out the reasoning why I have been acting the way I am. Show me where I had "attitude" that was out of line for the questions being directed at me. You want to look for attitude look at PB's posts.

Your vote makes you look even worse considering it seems many others don't view me as a logical lynch candidate.

Saldana, the thing I worry about with Lathum is that we are playing with Fouts back in the day with his "my role will come in soon and it will blow your minds" = wolf.

I never said my role would blow anyones minds. I said it is helpfull for the village, that is all. I am getting sick of people putting words in my mouth.

I agree with sal that he's been hyper-defensive, likely because of what he can and can't say. Not sure he's the best target at this point, I think the chance of him being a wolf is less than some of the others.

Again, show me where I have been hyper defensive.

wasnt it the survivor game where blade kept making up ridiculous powers the whole game that basically scared everyone away from lynching him?

I haven't made anything up, granted you may just be reminicing.

but is it really what he can or cant say, or is it what he wants us to believe he can or cant say?

no one else's private role to this point has has required public action that they werent allowed to talk about.

My role hasn't required any public action, again, I never claimed I had to vote PB or anyone else

I've thought it more likely he was a villager than wolf most of the game, but the longer he stays alive the higher he shoots up the suspicion charts.



That's very true. It seems possible Danny only included one role like that, but yes, he could be lying.

I just think at this point there's a higher probability we hit a wolf on someone else - if Lathum is alive as we near the end of the game and he hasn't used any sort of ability, I'm sure he'll get lynched.

don't be so certain

[Lathum]

again...you posted links to all the posts i made about you, but what is missing is the time stamps from them...with one exception, they are all from the hour long window otherwise known as my lunch break.

why are you continuing to exaggerate the truth?

1 hour hardly equals "all day" or "kept coming at me"...hoops asked me if i had any theories or analysis, and i gave it to him....your over the top defensiveness is actually more suspicious to me than my own theory was

i doubt i will get any backing with this, but i for one have had my fill of lathum jumping all over people with his "how dare you suspect me" attitude, and his unconfirmed triggered mechanic....i feel like i am playing with blade again. :D

vote lathum

Saldana, the thing I worry about with Lathum is that we are playing with Fouts back in the day with his "my role will come in soon and it will blow your minds" = wolf.

I agree with sal that he's been hyper-defensive, likely because of what he can and can't say. Not sure he's the best target at this point, I think the chance of him being a wolf is less than some of the others.

wasnt it the survivor game where blade kept making up ridiculous powers the whole game that basically scared everyone away from lynching him?

but is it really what he can or cant say, or is it what he wants us to believe he can or cant say?

no one else's private role to this point has has required public action that they werent allowed to talk about.

I've thought it more likely he was a villager than wolf most of the game, but the longer he stays alive the higher he shoots up the suspicion charts.



That's very true. It seems possible Danny only included one role like that, but yes, he could be lying.

I just think at this point there's a higher probability we hit a wolf on someone else - if Lathum is alive as we near the end of the game and he hasn't used any sort of ability, I'm sure he'll get lynched.

thanks for thinking i am not as stupid as i seem Hoops :D

i actually do have a thought....not saying i firmly believe it, but it is a thought worth throwing out there.

there was a lot of disbelief on day 2 regarding EF because he was criticized on N1...people didnt think that the wolves would waste their criticism on one of there own...EF of course turned up wolf.

now it is N3, and they have another shot to criticize someone. seeing how many people didnt think they would do it the first time, would it not be an interesting ploy to criticize one of their own again as a means of buying trust?

half of us didnt think they would waste it once...how many of us wont think they will waste it twice?

again, not saying i am even sold on my own idea, but it is food for thought.

so what you are saying is I make a crazy over the top play on day 2 that would likely earn me a seer scan, just to try to get myself into a COT because if I stay alive to long people are just going to assume i am a wolf?

So the best way for me to gain trust is to make a play calling attention to myself, in a game where I can't say why I made that play or what benefit the play gives us, on the second day.

Right, makes perfect sense.

also, look at the payoff if it worked...PB would be dead, EF would be semi-trusted because he had been criticized, and Lathum would have been able to plead some cock'n bull story about having to vote that way because of his role, which would have been completely impossible to confirm. (which is actually what he is doing right now)

there is a cunning wolf in this game, isnt there?

you know damn well your mere existence invites a seer scan! (look, and exclamation point:p )

ummm, are you on crack? Lets say I am a wolf.

PB does get lynched, then everyone looks at me as the catalyst, lynches me the next day, then comes to the conclusion that I was protecting EF and lynch him.

Right, would have worked out awesome!

I can't help but think of the people who are trying to get me lynched today their is at least one wolf who is trying to get me killed out of reputation and for fear of the mechanic that was triggered for my role.

If you are so convinced then vote me, but there is zero chance I am lynched today.

well then you kind of prove the point that I don't need to pull crazy shenanigens to get scanned.

and you had been preparing your defense for PB's death the entire day...you could easily have gotten out of it, and dont pretend you dont think you couldnt...you have gotten out of way worse.

but again, why?

You and hoops have both said I would be scanned early based on reputation, there were others on the chopping block so why make that play?

If you are so convinced then please, vote me.

but getting scanned by the seer doesnt do you any good against the lynch unless the seer comes to your defense!

a public display that gets you on the trust lists is 10 times better than a seer scan because it is just that. Public.

do you really think I though my play day 2 would get me on any trust list?

has anyone voted for you on day 3 or 4 (yet)

no, but that has zero to do with my play and everything to do with the fact there are people with far worse voting records, people like you I might add, whose voting record is piss poor.

You are forcing this way to much.

i hardly think i am forcing anything...go back and look at my first post on this topic...i said i am not even sure i buy my own theory...the fact that you are getting so bent about it when i havent even voted for you (in fact i have said i will probably not be voting for you) is doing nothing but drawing attention to yourself, and making me wonder if i might have stumbled onto something.

you have harped all day on it. You mentioned you think a smart wolf is pulling some strings, you certainly fall under that catergory as well.

Not really sure how I am getting bent, I am merely responding to your claims, but if you feel the need to vote me please by all means do, your voting record stinks already, why stop now?

So these are all mine and Saldana's posts from yesterday. I hardly think I has hyper defensive and I certainly didn't act out of character at all. I responded to his inquires in the best manner I could and interjected my own opinions.

Remove the name Lathum from my posts and tell me if you think I did anything over the top.

[Lathum]

hmm, somehow I multi quoted way more then I meant to.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol

[Lathum]

hmm, somehow I multi quoted way more then I meant to.

yeah, the point is read the conversation. If anything Saldana is attacking me and trying to get me on my heels, and then has the audacity to claim I had an attitude about it.

[dubb93]

I'm going vote record today. I think Saldana has the worst vote record so I am going to:

Vote Saldana

[Lathum]

and the rub is lets say I didn't defend myself, then people would be like "oh, he's being so quiet, what does he have to hide?"

[Autumn]

Lathum, without going back and looking for quotes, can you really say you never had to vote PB as part of your role? I thougth you specfiically said that you voted him in order to "activate" your role or some such and suggested several times that the wolves are probably scared of what you "activated."

[Lathum]

I never said it had to be PB I had to vote.

[Autumn]

I should be around a bit this afternoon to follow the vote and work on candidates. But right now I'm interested in seeing a new lead candidate and how that shakes things up. So, I'm going to follow Hoops and CR for the moment.

<b>VOTE CLAPHAMSA</B>

[Autumn]

I never said it had to be PB I had to vote.

But you did say your vote was due to a mechanic, correct?

[saldana]

I'm going vote record today. I think Saldana has the worst vote record so I am going to:



again, not much of an argument, my votes on d1 and d2 were horrible...my vote yesterday was solidly good for the village, but that doesnt mean anything...the wolves didnt know who the sympathizer was any more than we did.

[Lathum]

I can try.

I have an ability that had a certain trigger that needed to be met. Now I'm not saying voting for you was that trigger and to be honest I wanted to go a different way today but Danny wouldn't let me. Things got a little crazier then I expected but the outcome was obviously not only a great one for the village but for me as well.

for Autumn

[Lathum]

But you did say your vote was due to a mechanic, correct?

no, I didn't say that. My vote was my own and purely based on my read at the time and who I felt was a likely wolf candidate.

[Lathum]

again, not much of an argument, my votes on d1 and d2 were horrible...my vote yesterday was solidly good for the village, but that doesnt mean anything...the wolves didnt know who the sympathizer was any more than we did.

your vote today is also a poor one :D ;)

[claphamsa]

well, I mentioned it this morning... but I wont be on between 345 and right around deadline ( I actually have a date tonight :D ) so, dont count on me to reveal to save myself or anythign :) also, dont vote for me, im a good guy :)

[hoopsguy]

Clap, congrats on the date.

Are you suggesting you are not revealing now, or that you won't be revealing at all today?

If you are a good guy, then who is "railroading/Lathuming" you today now that Pass is not around?

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, I'm heading out tonight for a date. I won't be back until after lynch, but I do suspect I might be able to make an appearance between 5:30 and 6.

Anyway, I wonder why hoops isn't getting more pressure from yesterday's votes by our Sympathizer. So I'm going to push the hoops button.

Vote hoopsguy

[Lathum]

Not sure why hoops is getting votes. I think Saldana is a better candidate.

If Saldana = Wolf that is good for hoops, if Saldana=Villager thats bad for hoops. I'm not sure the reverse is true.

And I don't have a date tonight. I will be working on the 2 ten page research papers I have due next week in addition to all my other work.

[Danny]

All of you have dates tonight, a date with destiny and your destiny is to be here for lynch!

[claphamsa]

Clap, congrats on the date.

Are you suggesting you are not revealing now, or that you won't be revealing at all today?

If you are a good guy, then who is "railroading/Lathuming" you today now that Pass is not around?
I wont be around to reveal if need be :(

[claphamsa]

All of you have dates tonight, a date with destiny and your destiny is to be here for lynch!
yeah, its a rarity for me! i got no skillz!

[Danny]

Just remember you're the man!

[Autumn]

Not even bow hunting skills?

[Autumn]

Just remember you're the man!

It is easy to get confused on a date.

[Telle]

I wont be around to reveal if need be :(

So does that mean you COULD reveal if you were here?

[Telle]

So does that mean you COULD reveal if you were here?

Actually.. don't answer that.

[Lathum]

Just talk a lot about werewolf and FOFC. She'll eat it up.

[hoopsguy]

I wont be around to reveal if need be :(

Clap, if we are making a really poor lynch here then it probably makes sense to try and persuade now rather than just saying "don't lynch me, I'm out at deadline".

Obviously we want to get a wolf.
Obviously if we miss not all villagers are equal.

So, help us make a better choice if you are a wrong one. Convince us why you are a wrong one. And, if you are feeling really frisky, help build a case for voting another direction rather than just leaving an unexplained vote on another candidate.

[claphamsa]

im sure she will :P

[claphamsa]

Not even bow hunting skills?
bow hunting? I shot a bow once..... I prefer an AR 15 :)

[dubb93]

Just talk a lot about werewolf and FOFC. She'll eat it up.

Agreed. Make sure to mention to mention how awesome the Dungeon game that Abe ran was. If possible spend atleast all of the meal you have together describing that game.

[claphamsa]

Clap, if we are making a really poor lynch here then it probably makes sense to try and persuade now rather than just saying "don't lynch me, I'm out at deadline".

Obviously we want to get a wolf.
Obviously if we miss not all villagers are equal.

So, help us make a better choice if you are a wrong one. Convince us why you are a wrong one. And, if you are feeling really frisky, help build a case for voting another direction rather than just leaving an unexplained vote on another candidate.


well by my voting record im a great lynch :) but im not a wolf :(

was that convincing?

dont know what else to say, Ive voted badly, I still dont get the argument on EF..... but he turned up bad.

[claphamsa]

Agreed. Make sure to mention to mention how awesome the Dungeon game that Abe ran was. If possible spend atleast all of the meal you have together describing that game.
didnt play in it :)

[dubb93]

In all seriousness though I update my girlfriend every night on how the games are going.....she actually brings it up most of the time. Weird that she actually takes interest in this shit.

[claphamsa]

it seems wierd to me that we have so little info at this point in the game, but I guess its only been 4 days :) just 10 days worth of posts!

[claphamsa]

In all seriousness though I update my girlfriend every night on how the games are going.....she actually brings it up most of the time. Weird that she actually takes interest in this shit.
lucky :)

[Passacaglia]

Agreed. Make sure to mention to mention how awesome the Dungeon game that Abe ran was. If possible spend atleast all of the meal you have together describing that game.

And, don't just tell her about it. Show her. I'd suggest using your food to represent all the characters, or perhaps mold into a map of the dungeon.

[Lathum]

didnt play in it :)

even better, just tell her how awesome it was to read along with it!

see if she has an iphone and can bring it up?

Or whip out your Iphone and just be like, wait a sec, I gotta check werewolf, it's almost deadline!

[Danny]

it seems wierd to me that we have so little info at this point in the game, but I guess its only been 4 days :) just 10 days worth of posts!

Keep the posts coming, I want to make the top 10!

[Lathum]

In all seriousness though I update my girlfriend every night on how the games are going.....she actually brings it up most of the time. Weird that she actually takes interest in this shit.

I often tell my wife about WW exploits.

[Lathum]

Keep the posts coming, I want to make the top 10!

you could go the Abe route and just not have anyone die for a week.

[Danny]

I tell my wife about the game, it's one of the kinds of games she doesn't mind me playing, just as long as I am not on here when she gets home :)

[Danny]

you could go the Abe route and just not have anyone die for a week.

That's a good idea

[Lathum]

I tell my wife about the game, it's one of the kinds of games she doesn't mind me playing, just as long as I am not on here when she gets home :)

my wife actually played in a few games but it wasn't her thing.

I actually remember one game Saldana came to visit and all 3 of us were playing in the game. It was interesting trying to skirt the issue.

[dubb93]

And, don't just tell her about it. Show her. I'd suggest using your food to represent all the characters, or perhaps mold into a map of the dungeon.

Oh and bring along the dice so you can show her how the combat worked, or atleast how you figured it worked while you were reading along.

[Autumn]

I often tell my wife about WW exploits.

My wife requests updates whenever she's having a hard time falling asleep.

[dubb93]

My wife requests updates whenever she's having a hard time falling asleep.

Epic.

[Passacaglia]

That's a good idea

Or you could bring me back! :)

[Danny]

Yeah, she thinks the strategy in WW is interesting, she doesn't care too much for me playing text sims though.

[Danny]

Or you could bring me back! :)

But then I would have to change the wolves.

[Passacaglia]

But then I would have to change the wolves.

GAME EVENT!!!!!!

[claphamsa]

That being said.... dont vote for me :)

[Danny]

Game Event!!!!!

Pass is brought back to life and all of you converted to vanilla villagers except Pass who is now a wolf. Have fun!

[MartinD]

Back to the game (interesting though that little tangent was ;) ) - I've had suspicions about Telle for a few days now, and will put a placeholder vote out there for now.

VOTE TELLE

This is not set in stone, though - will be looking over the thread to see if I get bad feelings about anyone else.

[Alan T]

In all seriousness though I update my girlfriend every night on how the games are going.....she actually brings it up most of the time. Weird that she actually takes interest in this shit.

Ever since my wife met Lathum, Molly Murphy and DaddyTorgo in person for dinner, she started asking how my "wolfboard game" was going. She finally stopped after about 3 months of me saying I haven't been playing lately.

[hoopsguy]

Clap, although you have used more posts than Lerriuqs did yesterday - and have not voted for yourself - I'm still not really finding arguments here to change my vote.

I'm not trying to make you say something in the thread that you are not prepared to say. But I would be stunned if you are the seer; it would mean that I have totally whiffed on figuring this out all game long. Which would leave bodyguard as a public role that you actually could reveal.

In terms of the private roles, there is probably room for some discussion about what you may be able to do. I know there is with mine.

I just don't like changing my vote, this late in the game, on a "don't lynch me :)"

[dubb93]

Clap, although you have used more posts than Lerriuqs did yesterday - and have not voted for yourself - I'm still not really finding arguments here to change my vote.

I'm not trying to make you say something in the thread that you are not prepared to say. But I would be stunned if you are the seer; it would mean that I have totally whiffed on figuring this out all game long. Which would leave bodyguard as a public role that you actually could reveal.

In terms of the private roles, there is probably room for some discussion about what you may be able to do. I know there is with mine.

I just don't like changing my vote, this late in the game, on a "don't lynch me :)"

Why are you pushing for a reveal from Clap?

[dubb93]

Seriously Hoops, this pings me as wolfish as hell.

[saldana]

not trying to use this as an out at all, but this will probably be my last post of the day..i have a bit of work to finish up, and since today is my wedding anniversary, something tells me WW is not going to be in my evening plans.

i will however say, I am not a wolf.

[Danny]

Happy Annivarsary

[hoopsguy]

Because he says he is a good guy and he is gone in 15-20 minutes for the duration. My vote is on him and I'm willing to entertain changing a vote if I feel like I've been given a reason to do so.

Because he is suggesting that he has something to reveal but is not doing so. If he never makes the suggestion that there may be a reveal for him to make I don't push him like this.

I want to be making a good vote today. That is pretty much my whole driver in this line of conversation.

[dubb93]

Because he says he is a good guy and he is gone in 15-20 minutes for the duration. My vote is on him and I'm willing to entertain changing a vote if I feel like I've been given a reason to do so.

Because he is suggesting that he has something to reveal but is not doing so. If he never makes the suggestion that there may be a reveal for him to make I don't push him like this.

I want to be making a good vote today. That is pretty much my whole driver in this line of conversation.

It reads like you are fishing for the seer.

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, I would be stunned if he is the seer.

I would also think it is world-class awful play to leave for the day as the seer in the position that he is currently in.

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2565:

3 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558)
3 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513)
2 - saldana - Latham (2481), dubb (2509)
1 - Lathum - saldana (2494)
1 - hoopsguy - Abe (2521)

[hoopsguy]

Just to clarify - I'm not the seer so that is not why I would be stunned.

I've just thought that I had the seer identified very early in the game. I've considered a couple of other choices as seer, but at no point has Clap made sense to me in that role.

The kicker is the notion of leaving the thread for good on D5, tied for the lead, with a list of cleared villagers that goes unpublished while hoping for the best.

I just cannot wrap my head around him in that role.

[claphamsa]

Dubb, I would be stunned if he is the seer.

I would also think it is world-class awful play to leave for the day as the seer in the position that he is currently in.
dont have much choice :)

[DaddyTorgo]

Ever since my wife met Lathum, Molly Murphy and DaddyTorgo in person for dinner, she started asking how my "wolfboard game" was going. She finally stopped after about 3 months of me saying I haven't been playing lately.
that was a hell of a fun night. just went back to the rattlesnake the other day - they changed the menu and made it more mexican.

anyways - now that you're playing again you can tell her to start asking again.

oh, and tell her i said hi! *waves to Mrs. AlanT*

[claphamsa]

Just to clarify - I'm not the seer so that is not why I would be stunned.

I've just thought that I had the seer identified very early in the game. I've considered a couple of other choices as seer, but at no point has Clap made sense to me in that role.

The kicker is the notion of leaving the thread for good on D5, tied for the lead, with a list of cleared villagers that goes unpublished while hoping for the best.

I just cannot wrap my head around him in that role.
you make it sound like im leaving becasue im bored with the game or something... I have a rare thing called a life :)

[DaddyTorgo]

if he's got a date and he's getting some 'tang then i'm sure being the seer is the last thing on his mind.

[claphamsa]

and when i say rare, I mean for me :)

[Danny]

if he's got a date and he's getting some 'tang then i'm sure being the seer is the last thing on his mind.

Oh baby that's it! Call me your seer! Oh yeah!

[DaddyTorgo]

lol

"the third eye"

[hoopsguy]

Clap, I'm saying that if you have a different deadline than others then you have to play to that deadline. Obviously there is a managed risk element here.

This is in no way suggesting that you should put life on hold for the game. Just work the game into the hours that you have available. Since you have published what those hours are, I'm taking now to ask you questions I wont' be able to later.

If my vote is on you when you leave I'm probably not moving it. Because I believe it is more likely you are a wolf than a villager, let alone a significantly roled villager.

[MartinD]

I'm out for now - will be back on in a wee while, but will be finished for the night in about an hour and a half.

[Telle]

I have about a half hour and then I'm out of here until after deadline. I could go with a vote on either clap or saldana as both have bad voting records (not that I don't). I'll most likely put my vote on whoever has the most number of votes at the time, in a self-preservation move.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm

[hoopsguy]

Wow - so the three people at the bottom rung of my (dis)trust list for today (Clap, Saldana, and Telle) are all going to be out at the deadline.

[DaddyTorgo]

Interesting, but doubtfully indicative of anything I suspect hoops.

[Telle]

Wow - so the three people at the bottom rung of my (dis)trust list for today (Clap, Saldana, and Telle) are all going to be out at the deadline.

Yeah. Kinda sucks. But I have a sewing class 5:30-8:30 tonight and since it's already paid for and materials bought, I really can't go skipping it.

[DaddyTorgo]

i will be around, but likely on my phone. dropped my laptop in the mail for service today so i will have my phone and my POS backup laptop where the power connector doesn't fit the plug so if i jiggle it it is prone to disconnecting

[Danny]

I wonder if Clap and Saldana are really going to the sewing class too, but just using other reasons as excuses.

[DaddyTorgo]

i intend to be on on my backup-laptop, but it's always a crapshoot how long i spend on it before it frustrates me. it also doesn't have wifi built in so i have to sit right by the cable modem which is pretty much in the middle of nowhere in the house...i end up lying on the floor usually

[Telle]

Well I'm starting to pack up at work, so I want to get my vote in. I don't know what to make of clap's non-reveal. I think if he was a main character he would have either told all or kept quiet. Sorta half-hinting like that doesn't sit well with me. Plus he's the current lead vote getter besides me and I'd like to stick around awhile longer :)

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2587:

3 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558)
4 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587)
2 - saldana - Latham (2481), dubb (2509)
1 - Lathum - saldana (2494)
1 - hoopsguy - Abe (2521)

[DaddyTorgo]

fairly fragmented for like 210 mins till deadline

[PackerFanatic]

VOTE TELLE

I went with my gut on her yesterday, and I am still not convinced she is in the clear...plus I am not sure I see the evidence against Clap (although his non-reveal almost pushed me towards him) or Saldana, but I can be convinced if need be.

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2587:

3 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558)
4 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587)
2 - saldana - Latham (2481), dubb (2509)
1 - Lathum - saldana (2494)
1 - hoopsguy - Abe (2521)

Yet to vote: The Jackal, PackerFanatic, DaddyTorgo

[DaddyTorgo]

that's an interesting vote by PF, moving to tie it back up at 4-4 with just 2 votes in play.

[The Jackal]

VOTE SALDANA

Subject to change, unlikely I'd change to Telle because I'm not a huge fan of the people voting for her.

[hoopsguy]

I'm really hoping that we have at least two good choices among our top three.

[Abe Sargent]

Since it doesn;t look like hoops is getting any heat, and I want my vote to matter.


unvote hoops
Vote Telle

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2595:

5 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558), PackerFanatic (2590), Abe (2595)
4 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587)
3 - saldana - Latham (2481), dubb (2509), The Jackal (2593)
1 - Lathum - saldana (2494)

[MartinD]

Had a quick check back - of the three candidates for lynching tonight, I'm least inclined to vote for claphamsa, although this is more because I'm more suspicious of the other two. I don't like some of the moves that saldana has made, particularly in the day 2 voting (introducing a new candidate late in the day in a well-developed two-way vote?), but I'm not seeing enough there to convince me to switch away from Telle - voting history is not good, and I've been getting bad vibes from some of her posts.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting - not sure how much movement there will be between now and deadline but lets at least see what this does to people

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2595:

5 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558), PackerFanatic (2590), Abe (2595)
5 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), DaddyTorgo (2598)
3 - saldana - Latham (2481), dubb (2509), The Jackal (2593)
1 - Lathum - saldana (2494)

[Poli]

Mercy.

[Poli]

There are a bunch of people, including me, who have been casting votes at Telle, putting her high on the distrust list, and likely to vote for her again. I don't see why we would assume the wolves wouldn't "let him live" just because he's likely to vote her.

I still don't get why we aren't all assuming there are 4 wolves left. Danny made clear before the game that he needed 21 players to get ALL the roles in, and he added in an extra wolf role obviously with EagleFan's. Shouldn't we therefore be assuming there were 5 wolves? And that the ones remaining are all 4 revealed wolf roles?
+1 on both accounts. Bold emphasis is mine.

[Autumn]

This will be an interesting deadline. I'll be back in before it, I hope.

[hoopsguy]

I'm showing 5-5-3-1 on the votes right now through Post #2602:

5 Telle - Poli (2452), Clap (2467), MartinD (2558), PF (2590), Abe (2595)
5 Clap - Hoops (2476), Chief (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), MT (2598)
3 Saldana - Lathum (2481), Dubb (2509), Jackal (2593)
1 Lathum - Saldana (2494)


2452 Poli votes Telle 1-0
2467 Clap votes Telle 2-0
2472 Lathum votes Hoops 2-1 Telle over Hoops
2476 Hoops votes Clap 2-1-1 Telle over Hoops/Clap
2481 Lathum unvotes Hoops, votes Saldana 2-1-1 Telle over Clap/Saldana
2494 Saldana votes Lathum 2-1-1-1 Telle over Clap/Saldana/Lathum
2501 Chief votes Clap 2-2-1-1 Telle/Clap over Saldana/Lathum
2509 Dubb votes Saldana 2-2-2-1 Telle/Clap/Saldana over Lathum
2513 Autumn votes Clap 3-2-2-1 Clap over Telle/Saldana over Lathum
2521 Abe votes Hoops 3-2-2-1-1 Clap over Telle/Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2558 MartinD votes Telle 3-3-2-1-1 Clap/Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2587 Telle votes Clap 4-3-2-1-1 Clap over Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2590 PF votes Telle 4-4-2-1-1 Clap/Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2593 Jackal votes Saldana 4-4-3-1-1 Clap/Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2595 Abe unvotes Hoops, votes telle 5-4-3-1 Telle over Clap over Saldana over Lathum
2598 MT votes Clap 5-5-3-1 Telle/Clap over Saldana over Lathum

[saldana]

i dont really like DTs move to tie it back up again, and since i need to make a play to try to get back in this game

unvote lathum
vote telle

[Lathum]

I wonder if Clap and Saldana are really going to the sewing class too, but just using other reasons as excuses.

Having been Saldana's best man I can assure you it is his wedding anniversiry.

[hoopsguy]

i dont really like DTs move to tie it back up again, and since i need to make a play to try to get back in this game

unvote lathum
vote telle

Do you dislike it more based on "trust" for Clap or "distrust" for Telle?

[Lathum]

Unless there is some movement onto Saldana ( and not the anniversary type movement he is probably going to get from the Mrs.) I will probably switch over so I have a meaningfull vote.

I really wish people would consider him though, his voting record is terrible and it would also have been today. I feel he is switching because he realizes this

[dubb93]

Unless there is some movement onto Saldana ( and not the anniversary type movement he is probably going to get from the Mrs.) I will probably switch over so I have a meaningfull vote.

I really wish people would consider him though, his voting record is terrible and it would also have been today. I feel he is switching because he realizes this

I'm going to hold for a little bit as well but I am in the same boat as you, I will consolidate on the two main candidates if it becomes obvious this is a two horse race.

[The Jackal]

Autumn does make a good point about how there were four revealed wolf roles before the game and one unlisted wolf role in EF.. you'd think the pre-revealed roles would all be in it. If there are four wolves left that's scary.

[Lathum]

Unless there is some movement onto Saldana ( and not the anniversary type movement he is probably going to get from the Mrs.) I will probably switch over so I have a meaningfull vote.

I really wish people would consider him though, his voting record is terrible and it would also have been today. I feel he is switching because he realizes this

when I say terrible I mean it would have been a total throwaway

[The Jackal]

At this point I'm more inclined to vote for clap than Telle if we're going to give up on sal, but I have very little to go on with either of them. I don't trust multiple people on each, hard to follow people either.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, I think I would move to Saldana before Telle tonight. The only thing that gives me pause on that is that Poli seemed very set on getting Telle lynched today. Otherwise, I would jump to Saldana over Telle without much of a second thought.

[hoopsguy]

I'll be in and out over the last hour, so I'll try to move the vote near the end if it makes sense. My kid is now home, which means I won't have any big chunks of time to be reading the thread until after the deadline.

[Lathum]

Unvote Saldana
Vote Telle

[dubb93]

Unvote Saldana
Vote Telle

Reason?

[Chief Rum]

And, don't just tell her about it. Show her. I'd suggest using your food to represent all the characters, or perhaps mold into a map of the dungeon.

Ooh ooh, I got dibs on the mashed potatoes.

[dubb93]

I do think we learn more from a Telle lynch today than a Clap so I'm inclined to lean that way especially with Clap hinting he has a role and Poli's statements.

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2617:

7 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558), PackerFanatic (2590), Abe (2595), Saldana (2604), Lathum (2614)
5 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), DaddyTorgo (2598)
2 - saldana - dubb (2509), The Jackal (2593)

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, what do we learn from a Telle lynch today?

If we have villager/wolf at this stage we learn a lot either way. But what specifically do we pick up from Telle that we won't learn through others?

[Lathum]

Reason?

I don't think a Saldana lynch is happening so I want a vote that means something.

[dubb93]

Dubb, what do we learn from a Telle lynch today?

If we have villager/wolf at this stage we learn a lot either way. But what specifically do we pick up from Telle that we won't learn through others?

She has had a run on her nearly every day. We unlock ALOT of voting history with a Telle lynch.

[dubb93]

I think I'm going with Telle here.

Unvote Sal
Vote Telle

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2622:

8 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558), PackerFanatic (2590), Abe (2595), Saldana (2604), Lathum (2614), Dubb (2622)
5 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), DaddyTorgo (2598)
1 - saldana -The Jackal (2593)

[Chief Rum]

All right, I have considered the arguments, and I don't see a reason to move off of clap. But I am okay with Telle being lynched. I think the evidence to lynch her has been a bit overblown, at least with respect to what we know publically (those of you with access to private info through role play, that's your own biz, I don't have special info gathering powers), but there's no doubt she has made some questionable decisions. I just think there are others who have made more questionable decisions, like clap and saldana.

[Chief Rum]

With that, I am out until past deadline.

[The Jackal]

well hrm

[The Jackal]

unvote saldana

[The Jackal]

vote clap

[hoopsguy]

She has had a run on her nearly every day. We unlock ALOT of voting history with a Telle lynch.

Which is awesome if she is a wolf. But I'm not as sold on it if is villager voting history.

I've seen a couple of people post today that they would prefer to vote "A" or "B" and not have Telle as one of their choices. So that makes me less inclined to vote for Telle. But right now I'm not in position to be able to help her.

Who knows, maybe the people I'm reading are wolves who would prefer not to vote for another wolf. But I don't think that is what I read.

[hoopsguy]

8-6 votes right now. With these two candidates, I'll stick on Clap for the duration.

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2630:

8 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558), PackerFanatic (2590), Abe (2595), Saldana (2604), Lathum (2614), Dubb (2622)
6 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), DaddyTorgo (2598), The Jackal (2628)

17 minutes until deadline

[The Jackal]

Hopefully no one pulls any bullcrap and ties this up.

[hoopsguy]

I'll almost certainly miss the last 5-10 minutes here. So whichever way this goes, hope it turns out well.

[Poli]

Hopefully no one pulls any bullcrap and ties this up.
+++++1

[DaddyTorgo]

I only will get one go at this cuz of the phone-thing. imma unvote clap and vote telle. was only on clap to try to get movement really.

unvote clap
vote telle

[Poli]

I really like that vote, DT.

[Autumn]

I followed some hunches onto Clap, but since Telle has been high on my suspect list for a while, I don't mind seeing it go like this.

[Poli]

Call the flipping deadline already!

[Danny]

Deadline!

[Poli]

I followed some hunches onto Clap, but since Telle has been high on my suspect list for a while, I don't mind seeing it go like this.
I guess I missed the argument on clap. I'll revisit it tonight.

[Danny]

Final Vote Count

9 - Telle - Poli (2452), claphamsa (2467), MartinD (2558), PackerFanatic (2590), Abe (2595), Saldana (2604), Lathum (2614), Dubb (2622), DaddyTorgo (2635)
5 - claphamsa - hoopsguy (2476), Chief Rum (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), The Jackal (2628)

[Danny]

Once again Telle is under scrutiny for her saneness and is at the forefront of the discussion of being removed from the group. This time however, Saldana, Lathum, and DaddyTorgo go along with those who brought her back up and make sure she is voted out.

Telle stops her daydreaming about sewing and suddenly leaps out at Claphamsa and begins screaming at him and when he is on the verge of breaking down, he yells out that he doesn’t need this anymore and has a date to get to! Claphamsa runs out of the room and the building, never to be heard from again. Telle is then escorted out.

Telle was the screamer!

Claphamsa was the Teddy Bear!

The Screamer - If voted that you no longer need therapy you may scream at the top of your lungs in the face of one player and they will become overly emotional and leave therapy with you

The Teddy Bear - You are sweet and kind to all those around you. Your unwavering support allows you to pair up with one person each night and any attempt by the needies to get that person out of the group will fail. You also feel the need to share your support and can not pair up with the same person two nights in a row.

[Alan T]

*continues to delay Danny from posting the deadline results by sending him endless PMs*

[Poli]

YES!

[Poli]

YES YES YES

[Poli]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs21/f/2007/243/c/4/I_rule__by_spade0013.jpg

[Poli]

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/keith.dumble/hopper/beauty2.jpg

[Autumn]

Wow.

[Autumn]

do we think the wolves knew that Clap was the teddy bear or got lucky. I think one of their roles has a chance to recognize the teddy bear, right?

[Danny]

There is no listed role for recognizing the teddy bear.

[Autumn]

This keeps TheJackal high on my suspect list but I'm going to be looking hard at Hoops and Chief Rum now. I was following their lead thinking that perhaps they were going on something, but they now look pretty bad.

I'm sure you could say the same about me except that I've voted Telle at just about every opportunity this game.

[Lathum]

do we think the wolves knew that Clap was the teddy bear or got lucky. I think one of their roles has a chance to recognize the teddy bear, right?

I think it was Clap's statements from earlier today

[Autumn]

I guess so. people were making a deal out of that and I thought it was over nothing, but obviously I was wrong. Clearly I need some more experience at this game.

[Lathum]

So, anyone have anything they need to get off their chest before the night phase?

[dubb93]

So, anyone have anything they need to get off their chest before the night phase?

I love you?

[dubb93]

Glad to see we bagged another wolf. Alot of voting history with this one.

[Poli]

Wait, clap was the brutal kill? Wow.

[Lathum]

Wait, clap was the brutal kill? Wow.

based on his hinting earlier today I am not in the least bit surprised.

[Lathum]

As much as I hate to admit I was wrong I think Saldana's vote makes him look pretty good. When he voted it was 5-5 clap/telle and he went Telle.

[Lathum]

dola- I will also say DT's vote doesn't buy him much trust in my book, it was pretty obvious Telle was gone at that point.

[Autumn]

Well, we finally bagged Telle, but that's a blow to us, losing the Teddy Bear. Still, I hope that we've got good leads on the rest of the wolves now.

[Danny]

Night Deadline will be a bit earlier at 11pm eastern tonight assuming I have all orders in.

[Autumn]

dola- I will also say DT's vote doesn't buy him much trust in my book, it was pretty obvious Telle was gone at that point.

Good point

[hoopsguy]

Very, very good result in getting a wolf.

I would selfishly like the seer to scan me if they have not done so already. It is not going to get a wolf but I know it would make my life a whole heck of a lot easier tomorrow.

In the event that the seer actually wants to find a wolf then I would tell them to go elsewhere. Probably Saldana, MommaTorgo, or ChiefRum.

[hoopsguy]

I've avoided Telle like the plague in votes this game. I probably have not been this wrong on someone, staking out an unpopular position, since back somewhere around WW #10 or #12 ... the items game where Digamma was a villager and I defended him to the tune of a 14-2 vote stringing up the wolf.

I was a villager that time as well. Just saying ...

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to hold off on the vote analysis until after 11PM, unless people really want to see it earlier. But I think it could potentially do us more harm than good until night orders are in.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, I realize that looks bad for me because Telle was bad. Sorry that I didn't believe you, clap. I'll understand people looking my way, but I did that because I trusted less of the people voting for Telle.. I may have to re-think that.

[Abe Sargent]

Let me get caught up right now

[Abe Sargent]

Once again Telle is under scrutiny for her saneness and is at the forefront of the discussion of being removed from the group. This time however, Saldana, Lathum, and DaddyTorgo go along with those who brought her back up and make sure she is voted out.

Telle stops her daydreaming about sewing and suddenly leaps out at Claphamsa and begins screaming at him and when he is on the verge of breaking down, he yells out that he doesn’t need this anymore and has a date to get to! Claphamsa runs out of the room and the building, never to be heard from again. Telle is then escorted out.

Telle was the screamer!

Claphamsa was the Teddy Bear!

The Screamer - If voted that you no longer need therapy you may scream at the top of your lungs in the face of one player and they will become overly emotional and leave therapy with you

The Teddy Bear - You are sweet and kind to all those around you. Your unwavering support allows you to pair up with one person each night and any attempt by the needies to get that person out of the group will fail. You also feel the need to share your support and can not pair up with the same person two nights in a row.



Awesome!

[Abe Sargent]

based on his hinting earlier today I am not in the least bit surprised.

Np, but it's a good trade with teh seer still out ther.e

[Abe Sargent]

Alright, my date is still here, so I am getting back to her, and not you.

[Autumn]

:crazy:

[Lathum]

Alright, my date is still here, so I am getting back in her, and not you.

:eek:

[Lathum]

I hope the next game has a 24 hour deadline

[Autumn]

And nobody will be allowed to date during it.

[PackerFanatic]

Yeah baby!

[hoopsguy]

And nobody will be allowed to date during it.

Yeah baby!

Hmm, I guess I support some of the FOFC/WW members getting out and meeting women every once in a blue moon :p

[Poli]

sigh

[Poli]

That was OT sigh on the dating subject, so I'll leave it at that.

[Lathum]

Hmm, I guess I support some of the FOFC/WW members getting out and meeting women every once in a blue moon :p

Just as long as it doesn't effect them signing up for games.

[PackerFanatic]

Haha - of course I wasn't 'yeah baby'in that comment :-P

Hell, I am married with a kid. I don't even know what a date is anymore, haha.

[Autumn]

Yes, that's pretty much where I'm coming from.

[Autumn]

Back on topic, I've done my own voting analysis and I'm very clear where my votes will be going from now on.

[Lathum]

Haha - of course I wasn't 'yeah baby'in that comment :-P

Hell, I am married with a kid. I don't even know what a date is anymore, haha.

My wife and I go out on dates sometimes, but now instead of being like " man, I hope I get some" I am like " Man, I hope I didn't get lynched"

[Abe Sargent]

okay Abe is back!

[Abe Sargent]

Rar!

[dubb93]

Is the night being ran at 11 or 1?

[Lathum]

11 I think

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, I was under the impression (based on thread title listing wrong day of week) that it was 11PM.

[Danny]

Night results coming now

[dubb93]

Dubb, I was under the impression (based on thread title listing wrong day of week) that it was 11PM.

I didn't even catch that. Yea looks like 11 then. I wonder if Danny will claim poor typing on this rather than something more obvious?

[hoopsguy]

Hmm, I wonder why McSweeny doesn't play WW anymore?

[Lathum]

Hmm, I wonder why McSweeny doesn't play WW anymore?

was he in the thread?

[Danny]

MartinD is dead! He was the empathizer!

The Empathizer - You are really in tune with other's emotions. Each night you may pair up with one player for a heart to heart discussion. In this, you will find out if they are a needie or not.

Lathum has been criticized and will not be able to vote today.

[Abe Sargent]

SCUK

[Poli]

omg

[Abe Sargent]

I meant SUCK!

[The Jackal]

Well, that friggin blows.

[Lathum]

I didn't see that one coming.

I think it is safe to say the wolves fear my ability

[hoopsguy]

Well, that is going to make things a lot harder from here on out. I completely whiffed on the seer, as I thought it was Autumn. Which means I've got a ton of assumptions that I really need to check at this point.

Time to go through MartinD's posts and see if there is anything to be gleaned from them in terms of some kind of working trust list.

[dubb93]

That sucks, bodyguard and seer on the same day. Anyone have an undated vote analysis to reflect bloody tuesday we had here today?

[hoopsguy]

Had a quick check back - of the three candidates for lynching tonight, I'm least inclined to vote for claphamsa, although this is more because I'm more suspicious of the other two. I don't like some of the moves that saldana has made, particularly in the day 2 voting (introducing a new candidate late in the day in a well-developed two-way vote?), but I'm not seeing enough there to convince me to switch away from Telle - voting history is not good, and I've been getting bad vibes from some of her posts.

This is from this afternoon. Will keep looking for more.

[hoopsguy]

Had a quick check back - of the three candidates for lynching tonight, I'm least inclined to vote for claphamsa, although this is more because I'm more suspicious of the other two. I don't like some of the moves that saldana has made, particularly in the day 2 voting (introducing a new candidate late in the day in a well-developed two-way vote?), but I'm not seeing enough there to convince me to switch away from Telle - voting history is not good, and I've been getting bad vibes from some of her posts.

That sucks, bodyguard and seer on the same day. Anyone have an undated vote analysis to reflect bloody tuesday we had here today?

Here is the one from today.


Telle - Poli (2452), Clap (2467), MartinD (2558), PF (2590), Abe (2595), Saldana (2604), Lathum (2614), Dubb (2622), MT (2635)
Clap - Hoops (2476), Chief (2501), Autumn (2513), Telle (2587), Jackal (2627)


2452 Poli votes Telle 1-0
2467 Clap votes Telle 2-0
2472 Lathum votes Hoops 2-1 Telle over Hoops
2476 Hoops votes Clap 2-1-1 Telle over Hoops/Clap
2481 Lathum unvotes Hoops, votes Saldana 2-1-1 Telle over Clap/Saldana
2494 Saldana votes Lathum 2-1-1-1 Telle over Clap/Saldana/Lathum
2501 Chief votes Clap 2-2-1-1 Telle/Clap over Saldana/Lathum
2509 Dubb votes Saldana 2-2-2-1 Telle/Clap/Saldana over Lathum
2513 Autumn votes Clap 3-2-2-1 Clap over Telle/Saldana over Lathum
2521 Abe votes Hoops 3-2-2-1-1 Clap over Telle/Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2558 MartinD votes Telle 3-3-2-1-1 Clap/Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2587 Telle votes Clap 4-3-2-1-1 Clap over Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2590 PF votes Telle 4-4-2-1-1 Clap/Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2593 Jackal votes Saldana 4-4-3-1-1 Clap/Telle over Saldana over Lathum/Hoops
2595 Abe unvotes Hoops, votes telle 5-4-3-1 Telle over Clap over Saldana over Lathum
2598 MT votes Clap 5-5-3-1 Telle/Clap over Saldana over Lathum
2604 Saldana unvotes Lathum, votes Telle 6-5-3 Telle over Clap over Saldana
2614 Lathum unvotes Saldana, votes Telle 7-5-2 Telle over Clap over Saldana
2622 Dubb unvotes Saldana, votes Telle 8-5-1 Telle over Clap over Saldana
2627 Jackal unvotes Saldana, votes Clap 8-6 Telle over Clap
2635 MT unvotes Clap, votes Telle 9-5 Telle over Clap

[Autumn]

I whiffed the seer as well, though I had Martin as my next best trusted. I really wish he had given us some info, but I guess he thought he was well hidden. I presume the desperate for attention found him.

[Lathum]

Had a quick check back - of the three candidates for lynching tonight, I'm least inclined to vote for claphamsa, although this is more because I'm more suspicious of the other two. I don't like some of the moves that saldana has made, particularly in the day 2 voting (introducing a new candidate late in the day in a well-developed two-way vote?), but I'm not seeing enough there to convince me to switch away from Telle - voting history is not good, and I've been getting bad vibes from some of her posts.

This is the only post he has ( of his 29, counting the ones about haggis) that anything can be taken from and basically it tells me he hasn't scanned Saldana yet.

[Autumn]

I didn't see that one coming.

I think it is safe to say the wolves fear my ability

Why do you think the wolves would have any idea what your "ability" is?

[hoopsguy]

I'm not exactly one to talk, as my post count isn't all that much higher, but lerriuqs does seem to have been abnormally quiet during this game.

I'm not going to put my vote his way now, but I'm definitely leaning that way unless either he comes on with a good reason/explanation, or there's a very good reason for me to vote for someone else.

This is from Day 4 - nothing I've seen from that day suggested that he had a better candidate. Later says "Lerriuqs may very well be a villager", which he technically was.

[Lathum]

I thought Poli was the seer

[Lathum]

Why do you think the wolves would have any idea what your "ability" is?

because I put a quick vote on PB day 2, then BK's role come comes back that he has an extra vote added on so maybe they think I have something similar and they have criticized me 2 times in a row now.

[hoopsguy]

Well, I've got a ton of questions for people at this point but I recognize that I'm probably on nearly everyone's short list for a wolf right about now with bad votes on the EF and Telle lynchings.

I'll start here - Poli, you obviously are not seer, BG, or duke so you can't role reveal. But was your determination to get Telle yesterday purely gut-driven or was there something more that led you in that direction?

[hoopsguy]

OK, thinking this one through - wolves were actually sitting pretty today.
1.) They nail MartinD with their "seer detector" role last night
2.) Clap pseudo-reveals, and they know he is not the seer because they already have the seer and they know he is not a wolf
3.) They can sacrifice the brutal - who was already under continued fire - to test the Clap theory and ensure that they get to pluck the seer tonight. Even if Clap isn't the BG, chances are pretty good that MartinD is not going to attract a guard

[Autumn]

Well, I'm going to bed but I don't see any reason to hesitate on getting candidates out there. I've waffled on TheJackal because he suggested he was an independent in the beginning. But he is the only person standing who has voted for a villager every vote. Pretty damning it seems to me.

<b>VOTE THE JACKAL</b>

[hoopsguy]

Autumn, do you have a chart that lists end-of-day votes for everyone left?

[Lathum]

I think I would vote Hoops if I could, but I can get behind a Jackal vote also

[Autumn]

Autumn, do you have a chart that lists end-of-day votes for everyone left?

I do though I don't know if I can import it here easily.

[hoopsguy]

Right now, I've moved Poli up near the top of my trust lists. His Telle crusade seems to have started before the N4 results came back, where the wolves likely learned about MartinD. So I don't see him being in a position where he was looking to earn credibility today with his vote on Telle. He has put his votes there consistently (going from memory) over the past few days and amped up his intensity last night asking for others to back him.

[Autumn]

I think I would vote Hoops if I could, but I can get behind a Jackal vote also

I'll be interested to see what other candidates are offered up.

[Autumn]

I've got to go to bed. But in the morning I will put up some data that I'm going on. At this point we'll have to be as transparent as possible, I think.

[hoopsguy]

I do though I don't know if I can import it here easily.

Hoops - D1 EF, D2 PB, D3 Jackal, D4 Clap D5 Clap

That is how I would list them - probably easier if you have one completed spreadsheet in front of you than me pulling up a collection of Notepad files to repeat stuff you already have done.

[hoopsguy]

Well, a couple of days ago there were three distrust lists that I saw published while looking at the EF voting.

Lathum's list - Clap, Jackal, Abe, Lerriuqs, Telle, Saldana
Autumn's list - Telle, Jackal, Lerriuqs
My list - Clap, Jackal, Saldana, Telle, Poli, Pass, DT

Autumn's list has worked out pretty darn well so far with a wolf and a sympathizer on it. He is now voting for the 3rd person on his list, so I think I can say that his approach has been consistent.

[hoopsguy]

My lists have dramatically changed now that I know that Autumn is not the seer. I had given a couple of people some extra latitude as a result of what I perceived as changes from evening/daytime on his trust lists.

Looking through my notes from earlier:
2. Jackal - if Autumn is the seer then I think he was the N3 scan. If Autumn is not the seer then all bets are off.
3. Abe - if Autumn is the seer then pretty good chance he scanned him N2. If Autumn is not the seer then why did the wolves kill BK anyway? Indirect case suggests Abe = good.
And I thought I (or maybe Chief Rum) had been scanned on N4 when Autumn made a comment about following the two of us on a vote today.

[The Jackal]

I really don't know how to argue against this. I was hoping the seer would scan me, but now we don't know if he did or not. I've been wrong with my votes, and I have no role that helps the village, so if knocking me off helps with vote analysis or narrow things down, have at it.

[hoopsguy]

As of the Day 2 vote, I think we were 15-5, including the Sympathizer as good ('cause I presume they didn't know who was a wolf). On that day we had 9 votes on EagleFan, and 10 on other targets. Other than the possibility of an early wolf on wolf vote that couldn't be changed, I presume all wolf votes were on other targets since it was so down to the wire.

I also presume that unless a wolf was unavailable, they would have switched a vote from the two non-contenders to PB, now that we know for sure he was good. Saldana, Clap and Barkeep all voted close enough to the end that it seems they could have easily saved EF.

It seems then that chances are that most of the 4 wolves that could vote were on PB. Out of the 7 votes on him, Abe is the only one that I feel sure isn't a wolf vote. Telle and Jackal also voted PB on Day 1. Chief Rum made a pretty obvious late day push to get people off of EF, though he did vote Ef on Day 1. Lathum made his notorious strange early day vote on PB which is hard to read.

I think we'll find most of our four remaining wolves among:

Lathum
Hoopsguy
Telle
Jackal
Lerriuqs
Chief Rum

What I would love to see most tomorrow is a run off between two to three of these candidates.

Lathum - ???
Hoops - ??? (well, I know)
Telle - wolf
Jackal - ???
Lerriuqs - sympathizer
Chief Rum - ???

[hoopsguy]

11 players left, worst-case ratio is 8-3 at this point. No seer, no BG, no brutal wolf.

Assuming nothing really strange, we have two days left to get a good lynch in. With the Telle lynch today, we should have some pretty good voting records as well.

[hoopsguy]

11 players left, worst-case ratio is 8-3 at this point. No seer, no BG, no brutal wolf.

Assuming nothing really strange, we have two days left to get a good lynch in. With the Telle lynch today, we should have some pretty good voting records as well.

Also, for better or worse we are only going to have ten votes today since Lathum is not part of the mix.

[hoopsguy]

I really don't know how to argue against this. I was hoping the seer would scan me, but now we don't know if he did or not. I've been wrong with my votes, and I have no role that helps the village, so if knocking me off helps with vote analysis or narrow things down, have at it.

Really? None at all that has any potential to help?

But with your own set of win conditions, based on what you suggested on Day 1?

I'm calling BS, based on my own role and the roles I've seen revealed on death up to this point in the game.

VOTE THE JACKAL

[Lathum]

hoops, you seem to have alot of theories, whats your theory on why you criticized me twice in a row?

[hoopsguy]

I'm pretty sure he means he has an unlisted role that's a group member but has additional win conditions and can't help or hurt the group. I say this because I have something similar.

I believe that this is the first post by The Jackal once the game started.

Note that BK did not have separate/additional win conditions.

I'm having a hard time accepting that Jackal is a villager with a useless role and separate win conditions.

[hoopsguy]

hoops, you seem to have alot of theories, whats your theory on why you criticized me twice in a row?

Honestly, I do not know where to go with it. I don't think it is "fearing" you as a villager because they could just night kill you to address that concern.

[The Jackal]

Really? None at all that has any potential to help?

But with your own set of win conditions, based on what you suggested on Day 1?

I'm calling BS, based on my own role and the roles I've seen revealed on death up to this point in the game.

VOTE THE JACKAL

It's not BS. You'll see. I don't know what I can say about it, but it's absolutely useless to the village.

[The Jackal]

VOTE HOOPS

[The Jackal]

It's definitely a mechanic that's been used before, I've even had it with different roles.

[hoopsguy]

It's not BS. You'll see. I don't know what I can say about it, but it's absolutely useless to the village.

Now might be a good time to start exploring the boundaries a little bit?

If it is useless to the village than who is it useful for? I'm seriously trying to understand, not making the "hah, he is a wolf!" play here because it seems very strange to give you separate win conditions and nothing at all to do with your role.

[The Jackal]

It's not a role that has any impact on the game. It's like a side-game. I'll ask Danny if I can say something.

[The Jackal]

I don't expect you to be genuine in this if you're a wolf, because you'll need to push me as the lynch subject. But if you're a villager, feel free to keep probing and I'll answer as best I can. I asked Danny about what I can say and we'll see what he says. I unfortunately sound like Lathum from earlier, but at least I didn't lead a damn day of voting with confusion because of it.

[dubb93]

I'm not casting a vote tonight and I'm heading to bed. I have to get up for work in less than 6 hours.

[dubb93]

It's not a role that has any impact on the game. It's like a side-game. I'll ask Danny if I can say something.

He has a list of people he has to get voted out in order to win. I'm guessing the list was come up with random.org. Am I right. That is the only thing I can think of.

[dubb93]

I may stick around to see if I scored with my guess.

[hoopsguy]

I don't expect you to be genuine in this if you're a wolf, because you'll need to push me as the lynch subject. But if you're a villager, feel free to keep probing and I'll answer as best I can. I asked Danny about what I can say and we'll see what he says. I unfortunately sound like Lathum from earlier, but at least I didn't lead a damn day of voting with confusion because of it.

I don't know that playing a Pass version of 20 Questions ("are you an escaped prisoner with a goal to outlive three players who wronged you in a past life?") is going to work as the mechanics of the game don't let you give a direct answer if it is yes. But the two factors that I listed above (unique win conditions, useless to village) just do not seem to jive with a villager role in my mind. Just about all the roles we have seen up to this point suggest some sort of value.

So, I'll take this in another direction for now ...

What do you think about that quote from Autumn back during the D2 vote analysis? Where there are six names with "bad" D2 votes, two of whom are dead as a wolf and the sympathizer?

I'm on the remaining four names and so are you. Do you think that is a good place to look right now? If not, do you see a better place to look?

Does Saldana deserve a pass for avoiding that vote? The other two who did, BK and Clap, were both revealed as good in death.

[hoopsguy]

He has a list of people he has to get voted out in order to win. I'm guessing the list was come up with random.org. Am I right. That is the only thing I can think of.

Heh, posted something very similar a couple of posts later.

[The Jackal]

Hoops, I think that list is a pretty good place to look, even though I'm on it.

[The Jackal]

And no, I don't think saldana deserves a pass for sidestepping that vote. Votes like that can be used to sidestep vote analysis later, don't like em.

[The Jackal]

Dubb, I'm not going to answer any questions directly about my role. I asked Danny if I could say a thing or two, and when he lets me know, I'll post it or I won't.

[hoopsguy]

One last mental exercise before calling it a night:

Reasons for players that they are not a wolf:
1. Jackal - wolf would try to have at least one good vote by now?
2. Abe - strange N2 kill on BK suggests that they wanted "lovers" death with him?
3. PF - D2 and D5 votes for wolves
4. Hoops - you guys get to fill in the answer you want for this one
5. Lathum - D1 vote on EF pushed him towards front, erratic play towards PB drew attention that isn't needed as a wolf, double vote squelch?
6. Poli - D2 and D5 votes for wolves, led charge on Telle before there was any potential for wolf advantage
7. Dubb - D2 and D5 votes for wolves, probably has best voting record in the game when factoring in D1 vote for EF as well
8. Autumn - good D2 vote on EF
9. ChiefRum - D1 vote for EF?
10. DT - D2 and D5 votes for wolves
11. Saldana - D5 vote for wolf?

Anyway, that is my effort at constructing reasons to not vote for people. If people have additional reasons to not vote for someone please quote this and add on any missing logic.

[Lathum]

but at least I didn't lead a damn day of voting with confusion because of it.

:rolleyes:

you mean the day we bagged a wolf and got a lot of greats votes to analyze?

[Lathum]

Hoops, you failed to mention my switch to Telle today putting her in the lead late.

[Lathum]

One last mental exercise before calling it a night:

Reasons for players that they are not a wolf:
1. Jackal - wolf would try to have at least one good vote by now?
2. Abe - strange N2 kill on BK suggests that they wanted "lovers" death with him?
3. PF - D2 and D5 votes for wolves
4. Hoops - you guys get to fill in the answer you want for this one
5. Lathum - D1 vote on EF pushed him towards front, erratic play towards PB drew attention that isn't needed as a wolf, double vote squelch? switch to Telle today putting her in the lead late.
6. Poli - D2 and D5 votes for wolves, led charge on Telle before there was any potential for wolf advantage
7. Dubb - D2 and D5 votes for wolves, probably has best voting record in the game when factoring in D1 vote for EF as well
8. Autumn - good D2 vote on EF
9. ChiefRum - D1 vote for EF?
10. DT - D2 and D5 votes for wolves
11. Saldana - D5 vote for wolf?

Anyway, that is my effort at constructing reasons to not vote for people. If people have additional reasons to not vote for someone please quote this and add on any missing logic.,

[dubb93]

Alright, I really am out this time. Good night guys.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, I think that list is a pretty good place to look, even though I'm on it.

So that leaves you looking at three names on the list.
Most villagers are probably weighing four names on that list.

I may come back to this point a little later on tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, you failed to mention my switch to Telle today putting her in the lead late.

Lathum, assuming you are making that move as a villager - do you see that the wolves were willing to make that move today?

Telle was going to get nailed to a wall sometime soon by virtue of the heat she was getting in every direction and the fact that the person they knew was the seer was voting for her. They had a shot at both the seer and a roled Clap in the same day by allowing Telle to fail. And the late movers can pick up some trust in the process as an added bonus.

If you think that the wolves could think this way, then you look at that late movement a little bit differently.

Sure, if they thought they could get Clap lynched today then they keep their brutal for tomorrow. But what if the alternate target ended up being Saldana and Clap is still around at night to potentially block them (remember, they knew seer already, so what role is Clap going to have when they know he is a villager and not seer?) when they go for the seer? Was Saldana a wolf or a villager? If he was a wolf, then it was obviously easier to just give up Telle here.

Anyway, that is why I'm noting who had votes on the wolf but not calling out early/late movement on that particular vote.