WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, didn't I vote Telle on day 1?

You know, this is something that I was a little confused on as well. I thought that Danny's final vote count showed Abe but I thought you were on Telle.

I don't think it alters the conclusion, that you were around near the deadline on Day 1 switching your votes and that you never put EF in any danger with your votes.

[Barkeep49]

BK, I don't think I've "always said" anything in regards to seer scan choices. I really don't think there is a absolute right in terms of how to play that role.

However, they certainly could choose not to scan PB. And that would end up putting me in a bad spot with my assumptions if PB is in fact a wolf. I'm willing to take that chance for a day or two, I think.
How about frequently? Let's not play a semantics game here. Cause I got a thesauri and I'll find the word that expresses the fact that I accurately described your seer approach, as you admit later.

That said you see that I'm looking for a PB alternative, because I don't subscribe to that particular piece of strategy. So can you explain how saldana, or anyone else, is the best candidate? I simply haven't been able to follow along to make my own argument.

[hoopsguy]

Anyway, I once again won't be around for the deadline. Daughter's 2nd birthday tonight, which means that my wife will pummel me for sneaking away to mess with the computer :)

I'll change the vote to Saldana because I like him as a candidate better than either Telle or PurdueBrad for today.

UNVOTE THE JACKAL
VOTE SALDANA

[Poli]

Well, 1. Danny sucks. 2. I'm not sure how to answer, "never putting EF in danger". Wasn't I on EF before I moved to Telle yesterday?

[Poli]

Anyway, I once again won't be around for the deadline. Daughter's 2nd birthday tonight, which means that my wife will pummel me for sneaking away to mess with the computer :)

Give her a birthday high five for me. My 33rd is Monday.

[Poli]

I'm going to watch some backlogged tv. Time for The Mentalist.

[EagleFan]

:popcorn:

[EagleFan]

It was either that or situps in my driveway.

;)

[hoopsguy]

How about frequently? Let's not play a semantics game here. Cause I got a thesauri and I'll find the word that expresses the fact that I accurately described your seer approach, as you admit later.

That said you see that I'm looking for a PB alternative, because I don't subscribe to that particular piece of strategy. So can you explain how saldana, or anyone else, is the best candidate? I simply haven't been able to follow along to make my own argument.

I've put out thoughts on every single person on the last page, here is the summary on Saldana:

"21. Saldana D1: Dubb D2: Hoops Unvotes: EF (D2) Timing: pretty late unvote on EF brought race back to an 8-8 tie. D1 vote was more or less throwaway on likely villager."

He had the worst unvote of the day yesterday. He has cast two votes that have been throwaways. There are several people who stand out based on voting records, but his was probably the worst of Day 2.

I could probably get behind 4-5 candidates, and I had Jackal ahead of Saldana on my personal list, but I don't think that is going to happen.

In order, of the three current candidates I would prefer to see Saldana lynched before Telle before PurdueBrad.

[hoopsguy]

Well, 1. Danny sucks. 2. I'm not sure how to answer, "never putting EF in danger". Wasn't I on EF before I moved to Telle yesterday?

A quick look at my voting chart shows you on PB yesterday. Only EF vote was at very tail end of the last minute when EF was up one and didn't have ability to save himself. I think that vote could be looked at a number of different ways.

[hoopsguy]

OK, really out now. Back after deadline.

[Poli]

A quick look at my voting chart shows you on PB yesterday. Only EF vote was at very tail end of the last minute when EF was up one and didn't have ability to save himself. I think that vote could be looked at a number of different ways.
That's right, I was on PB. My bad.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm heading out with some friends. Don;t know if I'll be back until post-lynch

[Passacaglia]

I'm heading out with some friends. Don;t know if I'll be back until post-lynch

So does that mean all this time you were here?

[Telle]

Glad to see it's not a total run-away on me. I'll be reserving my vote for whatever self-preservation move I need to make. But regarding current vote getters...

PurdueBrad - I honestly don't know what to think of him. On Day 1 I thought he was a better lynch candidate than EF based on not much (typical Day 1), and on Day 2 I was confused by the whole Latham thing and thought it would be best to lynch him to get it figured out. But I never had any solid data against him. But now there's this hissy fit of his. I dunno.

PackerFanatic and Lerriuqs have both been very quiet. And there does come a time when you need to watch out for the "under the radar" guys. (I just don't believe that time is Day 1)

saldana - his voting record definitely doesn't look good. That move from EF on Day 2 does look suspect. And he hasn't provided any information about why he voted for me today other than wanting to make PB happy.

So out of those, I'd probably vote for saldana if I had my choice. But as I said, I'm reserving my vote until close to deadline for whatever keeps me alive.

[PurdueBrad]

I need to get in a vote today and so Ill just vote with the person that defended me some

vote jackal

[DaddyTorgo]

okay - here i am...done with dinner and ready to help figure this thing out

[Telle]

Vote count as of post #1767:

4 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633)
3 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
1 - Lerriuqs - MartinD (1652)
4 - saldana - dubb (1684), Passacaglia (1722), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753)
1 - The Jackal - PurdueBrad (1766)

Yet to vote: Barkeep, Chief Rum, Telle, DaddyTorgo

[DaddyTorgo]

i might have a thought, but there's not sufficient time to get any backing behind it tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think we can almost reserve judgement on PB another day...not enamored of a vote for Telle, but the person that is pinging me a bit as wolfish is on Saldana, so I don't know...

[Telle]

I think we can almost reserve judgement on PB another day...not enamored of a vote for Telle, but the person that is pinging me a bit as wolfish is on Saldana, so I don't know...

So who is it? And why do you think he's wolfish?

[Danny]

45 minutes until deadline

[MartinD]

UNVOTE LERRIUQS

This was always a placeholder vote, although I thought that it might have been more effective at getting a bit of reaction from lerriuqs.

I'll be moving my vote to one of the three main candidates soon - need a little bit of time to make up my mind.

[DaddyTorgo]

i might have a thought, but there's not sufficient time to get any backing behind it tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd like to see if anyone else comes to the same independent conclusion as me...

[Danny]

i'd like to see if anyone else comes to the same independent conclusion as me...

Sorry DT, I'm not a wolf

[MartinD]

VOTE TELLE

While I have suspicions about both Telle and Saldana, I think that Telle's votes for the first two days don't look good, and I think that I've picked up a few things in her posts that don't sit quite right.

It will be interesting to see how the votes go between now and deadline...

[Passacaglia]

i might have a thought, but there's not sufficient time to get any backing behind it tonight.

Word. There's even less time than when you posted that five minutes earlier!

[Telle]

VOTE TELLE

While I have suspicions about both Telle and Saldana, I think that Telle's votes for the first two days don't look good, and I think that I've picked up a few things in her posts that don't sit quite right.

It will be interesting to see how the votes go between now and deadline...

So what's not sitting right? Give me a chance to respond.

[Danny]

Vote count as of post #1779:

5 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777)
3 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
4 - saldana - dubb (1684), Passacaglia (1722), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753)
1 - The Jackal - PurdueBrad (1766)

Yet to vote: Barkeep, Chief Rum, Telle, DaddyTorgo

[Danny]

It's slow today

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm. despite what i said, maybe we just need to get this thing resolved and see what we can learn from it.

i'll be around till deadline though

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[DaddyTorgo]

friday nights are always slow

[Danny]

friday nights are always slow

But this is my game, I thought exceptions would be made.

[Poli]

It's slow today
I'm watching Fringe now. I feel like the mad scientist Walter.

[Danny]

20 minutes until deadline, tick tock tick tock

[Autumn]

I'm back for just a couple minutes. Anyone want to summarize what's happened for me?

[MartinD]

So what's not sitting right? Give me a chance to respond.

Sorry for not responding sooner - got a bit of a gut feel from some of your posts on Day 1, and am looking over the Day 1 posts to find something for you to try to shoot down ;)

[Passacaglia]

I really don't see the reason to vote Telle, and I think she should live.

UNVOTE SALDANA
VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[Danny]

Vote count as of post #1789:

5 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777)
5 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
3 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753)
1 - The Jackal - PurdueBrad (1766)

Yet to vote: Barkeep, Chief Rum, Telle

[Chief Rum]

VOTE SALDANA

The voting record stands out. Although I feel almost as iffy on clap as I do saldana, but clap has no votes. I'm not going to throw away my vote on a candidate in the running unless I am certain he is a wolf.

This does move it into a tie, and we don't know how that's resolved with Alan (The Arbitrator) gone. But I am okay with this, because Telle has yet to vote. I would be surprised if we ended up in a tie.

[Chief Rum]

I really don't see the reason to vote Telle, and I think she should live.

UNVOTE SALDANA
VOTE PURDUEBRAD

So after all that, you end up on PB after all? If he's still around, he's just going to vote Telle, and Telle will vote PB. Then we have a tie.

[Chief Rum]

Bueller...Bueller...

[Autumn]

Well, I've got to run. IN these few minutes I can't see anything compelling enough to switch me from Telle to Saldana. I'm worried about a tie but I'm afraid of making a last second switch when I haven't read up on the thread.

[MartinD]

Sorry for not responding sooner - got a bit of a gut feel from some of your posts on Day 1, and am looking over the Day 1 posts to find something for you to try to shoot down ;)

Sorry Telle - can't find anything concrete at short notice. I trust my Day 1 feeling (and your rather suspicious voting pattern) enough to be confident in my vote, though.

[The Jackal]

just watched taken, pretty good action flick

hoops - excuse me if i missed it, but i don't know if you ever answered why you have PF as trusted - i saw your explanation in your rundown of what you felt on everyone but I don't see that as clearing him, and certainly not elevating into trusted.

PB - you do realize I'm not voting for you today and have sort've felt you were good for the past day and a half.. do you really want me to vote for you?

[Telle]

I'd rather vote for saldana than PB.. but I have to protect myself.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[Chief Rum]

Okay, not leaving it in a tie. If others jump on to vote, I will switch back to saldana, my intended target. But it's 5-5, 5 mins to deadline and no one's saying anything.

UNVOTE SALDANA

VOTE TELLE

He's being a whiny biatch, but I buy the logic tolet PB go another day on the assumption the seer will have scanned him (and that seer better have by now).

[DaddyTorgo]

well i don't see any great reasoning to vote for telle, i'm a bit perplexed how saldana became a huge candidate, and frankly i don't think there's anyone whose eyebrow is raised about how helpful hoops seems to be being as much as mine is

[The Jackal]

Updated count anyone?

[The Jackal]

well i don't see any great reasoning to vote for telle, i'm a bit perplexed how saldana became a huge candidate, and frankly i don't think there's anyone whose eyebrow is raised about how helpful hoops seems to be being as much as mine is

no i'm on board with you there DT, hoops and PF are two of my most suspicious at this point

[Telle]

Okay, not leaving it in a tie. If others jump on to vote, I will switch back to saldana, my intended target. But it's 5-5, 5 mins to deadline and no one's saying anything.

UNVOTE SALDANA

VOTE TELLE

He's being a whiny biatch, but I buy the logic tolet PB go another day on the assumption the seer will have scanned him (and that seer better have by now).

Actually, NOW it's a tie. It was 5-5-4 and I hadn't voted yet.

[Chief Rum]

Is PB around? If he's not, I'm going to switch back to saldana. I'm not here to do charity and save his ass for him.

[Autumn]

Is PB voting?

[DaddyTorgo]

Vote count as of post #1789:

6 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777), Rum (1798)
6 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789), Telle (1797)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
3 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753)
1 - The Jackal - PurdueBrad (1766)

Yet to vote: Barkeep, Chief Rum, Telle

[Chief Rum]

Actually, NOW it's a tie. It was 5-5-4 and I hadn't voted yet.

Yeah, I see that. I am going to give PB a couple more minutes. If he doesn't change his vote--from The Jackal of all people--I'm going to jump back to saldana.

[The Jackal]

I'm not going to move my vote, I don't feel strongly about either of those choices.

[Telle]

Vote count as of post #1789:

6 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777), Rum (1798)
6 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789), Telle (1797)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
3 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753)
1 - The Jackal - PurdueBrad (1766)

Yet to vote: Barkeep, Chief Rum, Telle

Chief and I had already voted.. as you have noted in the vote count.

[DaddyTorgo]

you got 2 minutes rummy

[Chief Rum]

PB is not showing as being on.

DT you have me listed with a vote and as not voting.

[Autumn]

And no BK vote? I don't like this

[Telle]

Two minutes and we have a tie.

[Chief Rum]

I'm not going to move my vote, I don't feel strongly about either of those choices.

So you'll let a tie with a possible no lynch go? Nice.

[Autumn]

Somebody should shift their vote, I don't want a tie.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah i didn't change that part of it - who had still to vote

1 minute

[Danny]

Vote count as of post #1789:

6 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777), Rum (1798)
6 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789), Telle (1797)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
3 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753)
1 - The Jackal - PurdueBrad (1766)

Yet to vote: Barkeep

[Chief Rum]

UNVOTE TELLE

VOTE SALDANA

[The Jackal]

Fine, no one is going to do it?

[Autumn]

Thanks Chief.

[The Jackal]

Well, I was going to vote for PB anyways, so that does the same thing CR.

[Chief Rum]

Anyone else gonna be a "hero"?

[Autumn]

It's not the vote I wanted but it's better than a tie.

[PurdueBrad]

unvote jackal
vote saldana

[The Jackal]

unvote PF

vote PB

Just in case of shenanigans.

[Autumn]

gotta go

[Danny]

Deadline

[PurdueBrad]

Just got done with bath time last count I saw it was us three so hopefully this is good.

[DaddyTorgo]

ohhhhh wowwwwwww

[PurdueBrad]

Just saw count. Good luck village.

[Telle]

unvote jackal
vote saldana

Wish you would have shown up earlier as I would have joined you on that vote.

[Danny]

Final Vote Count:

5 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777)
7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789), Telle (1797), The Jackal (1824)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
5 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753), Chief Rum (1817), PurdueBrad (1823)

No vote: Barkeep

[Chief Rum]

Well, I was going to vote for PB anyways, so that does the same thing CR.

If you were gonna do it, you shoulda just done it, rather than force me to make a move.

And my choice wasn't PB, it was Telle. I didn't have the option to vote Telle more than I already had. So while my move hangs PB, it's certainly not ebcuase that was my desired choice. Unlike others here, apparently, I was quite concerned a tie would mean a no lynch, with Alan gone. So it was either hang PB, or go no lynch. Not going to choose to go no lynch there.

[The Jackal]

If you were gonna do it, you shoulda just done it, rather than force me to make a move.

And my choice wasn't PB, it was Telle. I didn't have the option to vote Telle more than I already had. So while my move hangs PB, it's certainly not ebcuase that was my desired choice. Unlike others here, apparently, I was quite concerned a tie would mean a no lynch, with Alan gone. So it was either hang PB, or go no lynch. Not going to choose to go no lynch there.

I meant I was going to vote for PB when I realized it was a tie, I didn't know it was a tie, and you had already voted when I was typing up my post.

[claphamsa]

CR go check shceduling on FOFC :) I called you out :P

[The Jackal]

But you moving off Telle put PB in the lead, that's all I meant.

[The Jackal]

If PB comes up good like I think he may, I assume I'm going to get some flack for voting for him three times, but whatever, I've laid out my reason for each vote and will happily do it again.

[Barkeep49]

Sorry about missing deadline. My parents just got back from a vacation and dinner with them took much longer than it should have. I am typing this on page 36 and don't know the results. I would have voted saldana.

[Chief Rum]

Just saw count. Good luck village.

Sorry, PB, you weren't my choice, although clearly I sealed it with my move off of Telle. I would have preferred for saldana go. I don't think you're a wolf, because a wolf doesn't act like you do when caught out (not that you should be proud of that).

Wish you had coem back sooner.

[The Jackal]

Wish I'd gotten here a few minutes earlier, maybe I would've voted for sal also, but the movie ended when it did.

[Danny]

Today, once again PurdueBrad is at the head of discussion of who longer needs therapy. This time joining him are Telle and Saldana. Votes move around, discussion slows and in the end, it is decided that PurdueBrad has really grown and come out of his shell. I congratulate him on his progress and ask him to leave.

As he walks out of the room, all of you realize you might have made a mistake as the eerie feeling has not lightened at all.

PurdueBrad was the Shy One

The Shy One - You are very quiet and shy. This however has made you very observant of others who are seeking attention. If pulled aside by the desperate for attention you will learn their identity. Every other night you may also have a rare moment where you come out of your shell. During this moment, you give someone rare attention from you. If this person is the desperate for attention, you will know it.

Night 3 deadline will be Sunday at 10pm eastern

[Chief Rum]

But you moving off Telle put PB in the lead, that's all I meant.

Yeah, I know, but the way you put it suggested that was what I wanted, rather than the truth, which was that your lack of action to that point forced me to move off of telle to ensure we got a lynch.

You're not alone in that, of course. We had others here to move as well, and PB himself came back way too close to deadline.

[claphamsa]

wow, so the one who said nothign was the talker, the one who said a ton is the shy one..... does that mean I should be the analyzer?

[Telle]

Well that sucks.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, I know, but the way you put it suggested that was what I wanted, rather than the truth, which was that your lack of action to that point forced me to move off of telle to ensure we got a lynch.

You're not alone in that, of course. We had others here to move as well, and PB himself came back way too close to deadline.

Well, I didn't want to vote for either of them, which is why my vote was on PF all day, and I would've left it but I didn't want a no lynch either. I posted that "I'm not going to move my vote" before I saw that it was a tie.

Didn't mean to suggest something you didn't want.

[Chief Rum]

No shocker there. Sorry, PB.

[Chief Rum]

wow, so the one who said nothign was the talker, the one who said a ton is the shy one..... does that mean I should be the analyzer?

No, you would be the ace spell checker.

[PurdueBrad]

PB himself came back way too close to deadline.

Yeah, but at least I didn't get screamed at about bath time by the post-partum depressed wife. ;) First time in three days.

[The Jackal]

I'm not surprised that he turned up good. Sigh.

[Chief Rum]

Well, I didn't want to vote for either of them, which is why my vote was on PF all day, and I would've left it but I didn't want a no lynch either. I posted that "I'm not going to move my vote" before I saw that it was a tie.

Didn't mean to suggest something you didn't want.

You didn't know it was a tie? Why post anything then at that point? It just looks even worse.

[Poli]

Yeah, no surprise there. Bummer, PB.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, but at least I didn't get screamed at about bath time by the post-partum depressed wife. ;) First time in three days.

Heh...well, you have your priorities straight at least. ;)

[Poli]

Jackal's move and comments were certainly odd.

[Poli]

Okay, I'm taking a cue from Alan and keeping my comments to myself until after the deadline.

[The Jackal]

You didn't know it was a tie? Why post anything then at that point? It just looks even worse.

The last thing I saw was your vote before I asked for an updated count, because I'd just arrived, and you said that moved it out of a tie, so that's when I said I didn't want to move anything - and as I posted that, the vote count came up.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, while I am giving a hard time to The Jackal, there were 8-10 people on around deadline and most of them didn't move either. Not going to walk out names, because I think that's metagaming a little, but I have to acknowledge it is disingenious to focus on The Jackal when others had the ability to change tonight's results as well.

[The Jackal]

Meh, I should've just not posted at all. I try to move at the deadline because I agree with the no lynch and I'm going to draw flack for it. If y'all want to come after me you're not going to get rid of an important role, but it's time-wasting. My votes suck because PB is good, but I had reasons for each one.

[The Jackal]

BTW, while I am giving a hard time to The Jackal, there were 8-10 people on around deadline and most of them didn't move either. Not going to walk out names, because I think that's metagaming a little, but I have to acknowledge it is disingenious to focus on The Jackal when others had the ability to change tonight's results as well.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I put myself into the spotlight by saying something, and I'm ready to take flack and questions for my posts.

[Chief Rum]

Jackal's move and comments were certainly odd.


Okay, I'm taking a cue from Alan and keeping my comments to myself until after the deadline.


I guess we know who the multiple personality in our group is.

[Chief Rum]

All right, I am out for a while, probably until really late (past night deadline).

Food for thought over the weekend, I guess.

[Poli]

I guess we know who the multiple personality in our group is.
Funny, very funny.

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry PB - but hopefully some good vote analysis will come of it, and you'll get to spend some time making the postpartum depressed wife happy!

[Lathum]

Sorry PB, your vote to save Ef was jsut to damning for me.

I am wondering if hoops defending him was an attempted way to gain trust?

[Lathum]

oh, and I guess you are off my Christmas card list.

[claphamsa]

oh, and I guess you are off my Christmas card list.
its easier to just not do cards :)

[PurdueBrad]

Heh...well, you have your priorities straight at least. ;)

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm dead.

I had them straight this time at least. Anyway, a more sincere apology this time. Had I know how rough RL was going to be the last three days, I never would've entered the game and unfortunately RL frustration affected my play here. Lathum, if you couldn't tell, my apology early was mainly directed at you but again, sorry. I purposely didn't mention more about the home and RL problems though because I didn't want that clouding people's votes (the pity no vote). Anyway, thanks for bearing with me.

[Lathum]

back on the list!

[saldana]

i cant really say i can argue with the people that switched off to me...i admitted early and do so again that my voting record to this point was terrible...as far as todays vote went, i put mine on telle because i thought i read something in someone elses post that later proved to be me apparently making a leap of faith that i shouldnt have, since the person i was following moved his vote off of her

i was further encouraged to believe i was drawing the right conclusion when Poli did the same thing I did. when everyone was asking "why telle" i didnt answer because I didnt want to draw attention to the hint i thought i saw and out who i thought at that time was the seer.

[Passacaglia]

i cant really say i can argue with the people that switched off to me...i admitted early and do so again that my voting record to this point was terrible...as far as todays vote went, i put mine on telle because i thought i read something in someone elses post that later proved to be me apparently making a leap of faith that i shouldnt have, since the person i was following moved his vote off of her

i was further encouraged to believe i was drawing the right conclusion when Poli did the same thing I did. when everyone was asking "why telle" i didnt answer because I didnt want to draw attention to the hint i thought i saw and out who i thought at that time was the seer.

So this means you won't be planning to vote Telle on Monday? If you hadn't voted Telle today, who would you have voted for?

[hoopsguy]

Sorry PB, your vote to save Ef was jsut to damning for me.

I am wondering if hoops defending him was an attempted way to gain trust?

I wonder if Hoops defending him is because he was pretty damn sure that he had been scanned already?

[hoopsguy]

i cant really say i can argue with the people that switched off to me...i admitted early and do so again that my voting record to this point was terrible...as far as todays vote went, i put mine on telle because i thought i read something in someone elses post that later proved to be me apparently making a leap of faith that i shouldnt have, since the person i was following moved his vote off of her

i was further encouraged to believe i was drawing the right conclusion when Poli did the same thing I did. when everyone was asking "why telle" i didnt answer because I didnt want to draw attention to the hint i thought i saw and out who i thought at that time was the seer.

Saldana, I'm not too distraught that you are still around because on some level I think you would have a little more finesse playing as a wolf than you have shown up to this point. But of the three people who had a chance to be the vote today, I picked you.

[Lathum]

I wonder if Hoops defending him is because he was pretty damn sure that he had been scanned already?

I wonder if Hoops realizes we have a cunning and even if PB was scanned he may have been bad which explains his erradic voing.

[hoopsguy]

I wonder if Hoops defending him is because he was pretty damn sure that he had been scanned already?

To clarify my pronouns - I strongly believe that PB was scanned already and that is why I laid off him today.

I think if anyone wants to go back and read my posts that should come through loud and clear.

And, just in case anyone wants to speculate - it is not because I scanned him. My guesses are all predicated on vote/thread analysis.

[hoopsguy]

I wonder if Hoops realizes we have a cunning and even if PB was scanned he may have been bad which explains his erradic voing.

Dude, PB is dead and his role is revealed. He clearly is not cunning. That train has already left the station.

[hoopsguy]

Cunning does not both scan good and reveal good in death - at least not any cunning wolf role that I've ever seen.

[Autumn]

Well, that wasn't very unexpected. But it does settle a large question that might have been looming over us. We can now look at three days of voting record with some clarity. I already had PB as probably blue in my notes but I don't have to worry about the nagging doubts.

[hoopsguy]

The Wannabee Therapist - Your skills and knowledge of the therapeutic process are developed to the level where you are able to fool the empathizer into thinking you are just one of the group.

That is our cunning wolf role (may or may not be in game).

8. PurdueBrad - The Shy One, Lynched Day 3

That is our dead villager that I'm guessing the seer will reveal he scanned whenever he is able to publish his list.

Note - these two roles are not the same!

[hoopsguy]

Danny, when is the night deadline? Saturday AM, Monday AM, or sometime in between?

[Autumn]

As of the Day 2 vote, I think we were 15-5, including the Sympathizer as good ('cause I presume they didn't know who was a wolf). On that day we had 9 votes on EagleFan, and 10 on other targets. Other than the possibility of an early wolf on wolf vote that couldn't be changed, I presume all wolf votes were on other targets since it was so down to the wire.

I also presume that unless a wolf was unavailable, they would have switched a vote from the two non-contenders to PB, now that we know for sure he was good. Saldana, Clap and Barkeep all voted close enough to the end that it seems they could have easily saved EF.

It seems then that chances are that most of the 4 wolves that could vote were on PB. Out of the 7 votes on him, Abe is the only one that I feel sure isn't a wolf vote. Telle and Jackal also voted PB on Day 1. Chief Rum made a pretty obvious late day push to get people off of EF, though he did vote Ef on Day 1. Lathum made his notorious strange early day vote on PB which is hard to read.

I think we'll find most of our four remaining wolves among:

Lathum
Hoopsguy
Telle
Jackal
Lerriuqs
Chief Rum

What I would love to see most tomorrow is a run off between two to three of these candidates.

[Autumn]

Day 1 activity for possible wolves

Lathum voted Poli, Abe then EF, putting EF ahead 3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

Hoopsguy introduces EF as candidate early in the day then stays there

Telle voted Abe, then after some pressure from me votes PB, pushing PB ahead of EF (though behind NTN) 5-4-3-2-1-1-1

Jackal voted PB early on to give him one vote then stayed there

Lerriuqs voted Pass very early and stayed there

Chief Rum voted EF late to tie him with NTN, behind PB 5-4-4-2-1-1-1-1

Nothing super clearcut here, but we have three who voted EF, one who introduced him, one who put him ahead early and one who kept him near the running late.

That returns me to concentrating on Telle, Jackal and Lerriuqs out of this group.

[Autumn]

Final Vote Count:

5 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777)
7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789), Telle (1797), The Jackal (1824)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
5 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753), Saldana (1817), PurdueBrad (1823)

No vote: Barkeep

did saldana really vote saldana?

[hoopsguy]

Autumn, I think this is a pretty good approach and I accept being on the short list (not that I get to change it or anything).

From what we've seen so far, both Telle and Jackal are willing to take an active role in the thread. I'm hoping that Lerriuqs will take a similar approach going forward.

[Autumn]

UNVOTE TELLE

VOTE SALDANA

All right, that was meant to be Chief Rum.

[Autumn]

I'd like to look at the context of Chief Rum's day 1 vote more closely to see whether it was as villagish as it looks at first glance. Because he came out day 2 and did his best to save EF. Here on day 3 he could have easily put Telle on the chopping block instead of PB. I think unless that day 1 vote looks impeccable he's a very strong wolf candidate as well.

[Lathum]

Cunning does not both scan good and reveal good in death - at least not any cunning wolf role that I've ever seen.

I was saying that a seer scan doesn't necessaraly clear someone.

[Lathum]

I wonder if Hoops realizes we have a cunning and even if PB was scanned he may have been bad which explains his erradic voing.

notice I put MAY have been, past tense because he is dead. My point is that you are saying you didn't want to vote PB because you assumed he had been scanned. I'm just not sure I but it.

Your trying to twist my words now.

[Lathum]

I don't belong on that list.

No way a wolf votes for EF day 1 when I did.

[Poli]

I don't belong on that list.

No way a wolf votes for EF day 1 when I did.
I think we've all played this game long enough to know there are no absolutes these days.

[Autumn]

I'm sorry Chief, I was really confused when I made my last comment. I had already logged off when I realized it - you were of course trying to vote for Telle and didn't want to vote PB. My mistake.

[Autumn]

I don't belong on that list.

No way a wolf votes for EF day 1 when I did.

The list was of people who voted for PB on day 2, so obviously you do belong on it.

I specifically did not include you in my "more suspect" list because of your day 1 vote. What are you so upset about?

[Autumn]

When will night deadline be? I will be gone almost the rest of the weekend so it would be good to know when I can and must vote next.

[dubb93]

When will night deadline be? I will be gone almost the rest of the weekend so it would be good to know when I can and must vote next.

I was under the impression it was tonight at 1 am. I may be wrong though. I know Danny said there will be no weekend play so I assume the next deadline would be Monday at 8.

[dubb93]

I was under the impression it was tonight at 1 am. I may be wrong though. I know Danny said there will be no weekend play so I assume the next deadline would be Monday at 8.

Nevermind. Looks like night deadline is Sunday at 10 per Danny's writeup post.

[hoopsguy]

Ah, thanks for catching that. Well, probably going to be a pretty slow weekend then.

[Autumn]

Definitely. I'll be gone perhaps until after night deadline. I hope my list from before makes for some good talk. I'll definitely be targeting from among those.

I may be on in the morning before I head out.

[The Jackal]

Gonna be a major slow weekend, damn. I'm definitely a proponent of finishing nights up on Fridays and letting there be a day phase until the next deadline on Monday. Not a critique aimed at Danny personally, just saying.

[The Jackal]

so hoops - did you ever answer my question about PF? I'm sorry if I missed it, but now that there's not going to be ultra-activity I'll be able to see it for sure.

[Danny]

Danny, when is the night deadline? Saturday AM, Monday AM, or sometime in between?

It's in the results posts. It's due Sunday at 10pm eastern

[hoopsguy]

so hoops - did you ever answer my question about PF? I'm sorry if I missed it, but now that there's not going to be ultra-activity I'll be able to see it for sure.

My trust on him is based on the quality of his Day 2 vote. I think it was a significant vote, especially now in the light that PB was good (no wolf/wolf).

The fact that you voted for PF yesterday is one of the reasons that I initially voted you; I thought it was the worst vote I saw yesterday from people that I already had as suspects.

Can you explain to me why you distrust PF more than just about anyone in the game (based on your Day 3 vote) at this point, given his Day 2 vote - the fact it was on a wolf, the timing of it, and the final point that it stands out even more for someone with so few posts overall?

[saldana]

So this means you won't be planning to vote Telle on Monday? If you hadn't voted Telle today, who would you have voted for?

no pass, i do not plan on voting telle on monday.

it is a little unfair to ask me who i would have voted for today, since i would really have had no choice but to vote PB in self preservation, and since we already know he was a villager, you are basically forcing me to say "i would have voted for a good guy"

[Passacaglia]

no pass, i do not plan on voting telle on monday.

it is a little unfair to ask me who i would have voted for today, since i would really have had no choice but to vote PB in self preservation, and since we already know he was a villager, you are basically forcing me to say "i would have voted for a good guy"

I definitely wasn't trying to do that -- just trying to get an angle on who you suspected if not for the seer angle. I'd probably ask a similar question if you had voted PB -- who would you have voted for if you didn't have to vote in self-preservation?

[The Jackal]

Can you explain to me why you distrust PF more than just about anyone in the game (based on your Day 3 vote) at this point, given his Day 2 vote - the fact it was on a wolf, the timing of it, and the final point that it stands out even more for someone with so few posts overall?

Early vote on a known villager day 1, check. Putting EF in the lead when the wolves knew PB hadn't even switched to EF yet, check. And then it was merely those two things combined with the tone of some of his few posts that struck me oddly.

I had my vote on him all day because I felt he was a better option than PB or Telle, but obviously no one agreed.

[Autumn]

Well, here's my morning check-in, and I see nothing much going on. I'll probably be back after night deadline or perhaps briefly on Sunday.

I think I've made clear who my suspects are, in case something happens to me. My trust list in order of trust is

Barkeep
Abe
Dubb
Poli
PackerFan
MartinD

[Lathum]

The list was of people who voted for PB on day 2, so obviously you do belong on it.

I specifically did not include you in my "more suspect" list because of your day 1 vote. What are you so upset about?

how I am upset?

I mearly said I don't belong on your list. It's not like I was PBing you.

[hoopsguy]

how I am upset?

I mearly said I don't belong on your list. It's not like I was PBing you.

Good stuff, Lathum :lol:

[hoopsguy]

Early vote on a known villager day 1, check. Putting EF in the lead when the wolves knew PB hadn't even switched to EF yet, check. And then it was merely those two things combined with the tone of some of his few posts that struck me oddly.

I had my vote on him all day because I felt he was a better option than PB or Telle, but obviously no one agreed.

OK, so how do you significantly differentiate between PF and MartinD?

Early vote on a known villager Day 1 - check
Putting EF in the lead when the wolves knew PB hadn't even switch to EF yet - check
Tone of posts - not sure, but neither of those guys have many posts

Yet you are after PF and not MartinD. I see these guys as nearly equal on my trust/distrust lists but you seem to have a big gap between them. Why? Can you clarify on the "tone of posts" which seems like it must be the difference?

[hoopsguy]

Well, here's my morning check-in, and I see nothing much going on. I'll probably be back after night deadline or perhaps briefly on Sunday.

I think I've made clear who my suspects are, in case something happens to me. My trust list in order of trust is

Barkeep
Abe
Dubb
Poli
PackerFan
MartinD

Can you build your case for Poli as trusted?

[Lathum]

Can you build your case for Poli as trusted?

and why I'm not?

I thik my day 1 vote on EF was pretty telling.

[The Jackal]

OK, so how do you significantly differentiate between PF and MartinD?

Early vote on a known villager Day 1 - check
Putting EF in the lead when the wolves knew PB hadn't even switch to EF yet - check
Tone of posts - not sure, but neither of those guys have many posts

Yet you are after PF and not MartinD. I see these guys as nearly equal on my trust/distrust lists but you seem to have a big gap between them. Why? Can you clarify on the "tone of posts" which seems like it must be the difference?

I need to go back and look at Martin's voting then if it's that similar - I don't even recall him posting, whereas I got bad feelings about some of PF's posts. I'll go back and find them sometime this weekend. So I imagine they're about equal on my distrust scale.

[hoopsguy]

Can you highlight posts by PF that concerned you?

My trust at this point is very heavily regulated by voting records, since we've had meaningful votes on the first two days and at this point can do pretty complete analysis on them.

[The Jackal]

Yes, like I said I'll go back and find em when I have a bit of time to spare. No rush, right?

[hoopsguy]

Dola (think I can slip that in over weekend),

I'll definitely listen to people's "vibe" if/when they link the posts that created the vibe so I can try to interpret it as well. But it is going to be a fairly tough sell to convince me to vote for someone with a "good" voting record versus a "bad" voting record. I understand the whole "wolves know who the wolves/villagers are" and manage accordingly, but they had one of their own on the chopping block each of the first two days and that person was probably salvageable both times around if they dug in.

[hoopsguy]

Damn, not even on weekends (dola)!

No rush - I'm out most of the afternoon to help run my kid's birthday party.

[Barkeep49]

What is our next deadline?

[Danny]

Sunday at 10 eastern.

[Danny]

I have all night orders. It seems everyone doesn't like the delayed weekend deadline. Is everyone alright if I run the deadline tonight or should I wait?

[Poli]

I speak for everyone: Run it.

[Danny]

Alright, assuming there are no protests I will run everything in the next few hours.

[hoopsguy]

I would love to see it processed earlier. Unless I'm dying; then let me know so I can blurt out every random thought over the next hour or two.

[Danny]

Alright, I will process it in about 30 minutes, maybe sooner.

[Poli]

What he said.

[Danny]

After a crazy night of nightmares and fantasies, everyone wakes up. As we are getting ready to start out day, Autumn yells out that he could use something to eat. Everyone then looks around for Chef Rum, but he is nowhere to be found. As panic begins to ensue, Chief Rum drops from the ceiling to try and body slam me. As I quickly move out of the way, Chief Rum falls on the floor next to Barkeep’s sleeping bag and lets out a girly scream at the sight of a dead body. Barkeep is dead!
…
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Barkeep was the Cool Guy!

The Cool Guy- You are one cool guy! This means some look up to you and some are jealous and want you out of the way. Half the players in the game subconsciously look up to you. Anytime one of those players makes a vote to oust you from the group, their vote will be nullified. The other half of the players subconsciously are jealous of you. Anytime one of those players votes to oust you from the group, their vote will be doubled. Each night you will study the group and learn of one player who is jealous of you and one who looks up to you. Being that these feelings are subconscious, the players themselves will not know about them or their effect on voting for you. However, once they vote to remove you from the group, it means their love/hate of you has turned to indifference and their effect on voting for you will not happen again.

During the night, Lathum was criticized and does not feel confident enough to vote today. He was so hurt he did not notice who insulted him. Lathum can still post in the thread.

*Like always, all of the added stuff in the write up is not related to actual game play.

[Danny]

Day 4 Deadline is Monday at 8pm eastern time. Hopefully running the deadline tonight will pick up the steam going towards Monday.

[Poli]

They took barkeep? That's odd.

[Poli]

Although barkeep apparently was one cool guy, I don't know how his role was helpful to us.

[Danny]

Although barkeep apparently was one cool guy, I don't know how his role was helpful to us.

Yeah, his role was a risk/reward vanilla villager basically. If he was able to nullify people who hated him by getting them to vote and then even unvote him, it would of been helpful to avoid a lynch, but for the most part, it was fancy vanilla villager type role.

[Danny]

Plus if he was the leading vote getter and this ability saved him, he would have ended up being cleared. So, this could have served as a self scan of sorts too.

[hoopsguy]

About the only case I could have made for BK being a lynch was that he was the most trusted person by Autumn. I have no idea why that would have been the case but I did not want to press that until today.

Abe - I do not see anything within BK's role description that would have suggested any association with you. Can you say now why in the world you would have felt so confident about BK, to the point where you suggested "lynch me instead of him"?

[Lathum]

My guess is I was silenced because the wolves were a little freaked out by the way I voted the other day.

I am wondering right now about Autumn, one because I'm not on his list and two because the person he trusted most is dead now, it's almost like some kind of move on his part. Put out a trust list then kill someone on it to make it look like he is a villager with a good read,

[Poli]

The lynch me instead of him definitely concerned/confused me.

[Abe Sargent]

About the only case I could have made for BK being a lynch was that he was the most trusted person by Autumn. I have no idea why that would have been the case but I did not want to press that until today.

Abe - I do not see anything within BK's role description that would have suggested any association with you. Can you say now why in the world you would have felt so confident about BK, to the point where you suggested "lynch me instead of him"?

No, the GM Told me I was already on the line with my first comment, I cannot expand on it.

[Poli]

Hmm.

Anyway, I don't understand "silencing" Lathum, either.

[hoopsguy]

No, the GM Told me I was already on the line with my first comment, I cannot expand on it.

The problem is that I don't see a role that would dovetail with this role that you would suggest. Nor do I see where it would have been a problem where you read BK's initial post and said "hmm, that sounds at least in the same realm as my role - I can believe that". So the fact that you are now clamming up, and that your voting hasn't exactly been good, makes it pretty hard for me to trust you no matter what Autumn may be suggesting with his list. Especially since BK did not vouch you back.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, it has been clarified by the GM that I can say it is due to my role, and that's as far as I can go.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so let me see if I can push the boundaries a little bit here - why do you think that BK was not willing to cross-vouch you back on Day 1 or at any other point in the first three days?

[Abe Sargent]

OK, so let me see if I can push the boundaries a little bit here - why do you think that BK was not willing to cross-vouch you back on Day 1 or at any other point in the first three days?

Ask yourself this question, "Why SHOULD he be able to?"

I can think of a lot more ways that I would know and BK wouldn't, than we both know.

[hoopsguy]

About the only case I could have made for BK being a lynch was that he was the most trusted person by Autumn. I have no idea why that would have been the case but I did not want to press that until today.


Quick thought on this - I was overlooking something really obvious when I typed this. Abe's vouch for BK, as well as asking for us to vote him out before BK, suggested that they might somehow be lovers so the wolves were probably hunting for a 2:1 here. That probably makes the most sense for the kill. Any kind of trust was probably just a bonus for them, right up until the point that they only killed one person.

That said, this theory only works if Abe is a villager. If Abe = wolf then it almost has to be a "trust/no BG likely to block" play.

[Abe Sargent]

BTW, if I were a wolf trying to get way out in front, and I mean WAY out with my comments, I would be a better voter. I'd want to have some value to the village so that they would not want to vote me out.

Besides, have you ever known me, even one time, to go out in front like this as a wolf? Nope. I am not comfortable in the spotlight as a wolf, never have been. Especially not in a game with 21 players, and it would be easy to hide in the shadows. That's bad strategy, as can be seen with all of the attention to come my way.

I tried to create a Circle of Trust, and now that one is dead. I can do no more, I can say no more.

[hoopsguy]

Ask yourself this question, "Why SHOULD he be able to?"

I can think of a lot more ways that I would know and BK wouldn't, than we both know.

So, taking another direction - was your trust predicated by his first post describing his role or was the trust already there before that point? I can quote the post in question if you need me to do so.

[hoopsguy]

Also, why did you think it would be better to have you die before BK, given that his death did not have any negative impact on you?

I'm asking the questions because you are in the thread on a Saturday night (what, no date?) and because I'm hoping that you can widen the boundaries of communication that seem to be in place by responding to direct questions.

[Abe Sargent]

I already told you, it had to do with my role. I cannot tell more.

[hoopsguy]

Lerriuqs, don't be afraid to chime in at any point.

[hoopsguy]

Abe, does post #1940 answer post #1938, #1939, or both?

[Abe Sargent]

Both, Mr Specific

[lerriuqs]

Lerriuqs, don't be afraid to chime in at any point.

Sorry guys, I'm having enough trouble keeping up with the many, many posts...

I've been having trouble really figuring out what's going on. I'm not used to games this big. Hence, I watch...I'll try to get more in here soon.

The one thing I really don't get is how any of my votes is all that suspicious - Day 1, I voted for Pass early and didn't come back till after the deadline, I couldn't switch if I had wanted to. Day 2, I voted PB as much to keep the race close to allow for vote changes. I didn't see any reason to switch at the end. Some said it looked bad for those of us who didn't, but if those that did switch hadn't, it wouldn't have. So I don't really get that logic. There was no real reason to vote for one over the other until the fact that he was a wolf came out. Day 3, I tried to bring a third choice close cause I didn't like the first two and then wasn't back for the deadline to consider any changes.

I don't think there's much of anything to go that would raise any suspicion. I'm a villager. I have no idea who the wolves are and haven't had enough time to really delve into any of my suspicions. As such I don't really want to voice them quite yet.

[Abe Sargent]

Don;t worrry, I'm having trouble too

[Poli]

Apparently not as much as the rest of us.

[dubb93]

I think there needs to be discussion on the wolves choice to criticize Lathum today. Would they criticize one of their own again after what happened to EF? I would lean towards no, but I have to wonder what type of villager role would have required Lathum to vote for PB on day 2 to activate(I believe this is the gist of what he was trying to say. I'm still highly confused by Lathum's actions on day 2.)

[Lathum]

I think there needs to be discussion on the wolves choice to criticize Lathum today. Would they criticize one of their own again after what happened to EF? I would lean towards no, but I have to wonder what type of villager role would have required Lathum to vote for PB on day 2 to activate(I believe this is the gist of what he was trying to say. I'm still highly confused by Lathum's actions on day 2.)

I think they are worried my role has some sort of added bonus when it comes to the vote.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, why would they think that? What could have emerged over the first three days to suggest a bonus on vote, given that we have not seen it reflected in the voting totals and did not see BK's role writeup until the end of Night 3?

[Lathum]

Lathum, why would they think that? What could have emerged over the first three days to suggest a bonus on vote, given that we have not seen it reflected in the voting totals and did not see BK's role writeup until the end of Night 3?

I dunno, just trying to figure out why they would vote me.

I think they may be freaked out about the way I voted the other day and have claimed because of that I triggered a mechanic for my role.

Maybe they are worried about that mechanic?

[dubb93]

Lathum, why would they think that? What could have emerged over the first three days to suggest a bonus on vote, given that we have not seen it reflected in the voting totals and did not see BK's role writeup until the end of Night 3?

I was trying to see how that conclusion could have been drawn as well and going through Lathum's post I don't even see how it is plausable.

[Lathum]

1 - Passacaglia - Lerriuqs (253)
1 - dubb - saldana (304)
5 - EagleFan - hoopsguy (328), Lathum (396), dubb (416), Chief Rum (605), NTNDeacon (707)
4 - PurdueBrad - The Jackel (329), EagleFan (452), Telle (575), Martin D (595)
1 - PackerFanatic - claphasma (335)
6- ntndeacon - PackerFanatic (374), Barkeep (420), Abe (425), Pass (532), Alan T (699), PurdueBrad (711)
2 - Telle - Autumn (604), Poli (668)

Final Results

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)
9 - EagleFan - Alan T (951), Autumn (969), DaddyTorgo (971), dubb (1014), MartinD (1112), PackerFanatic (1123), Passacaglia (1157), PurdueBrad, Poli
1 - hoopsguy - saldana (1194)
2 - Telle - claphamsa (1285), Barkeep (1291)

Final Vote Count:

5 - Telle - claphamsa (1532), Autumn (1535), saldana (1616), Poli (1633), MartinD (1777)
7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (1554), PackerFanatic (1661), Abe (1702), DaddyTorgo (1782), Pass (1789), Telle (1797), The Jackal (1824)
1 - PackerFanatic - The Jackal (1637)
5 - saldana - dubb (1684), Lerriuqs (1735), hoopsguy (1753), CR (1817), PurdueBrad (1823)

No vote: Barkeep

first 3 days votes

[Lathum]

I was trying to see how that conclusion could have been drawn as well and going through Lathum's post I don't even see how it is plausable.

you asked why I was targeted, I'm trying to come up with reasons.

What's your theory?

[Poli]

I'd like Danny to correct my day 1 vote officially at some point.

[Poli]

Wait a second, I'm on both Abe and Telle. That's kind of cool.

[Lathum]

I'd like Danny to correct my day 1 vote officially at some point.

Wait a second, I'm on both Abe and Telle. That's kind of cool.

yeah, Saldana is also listed as votinf himself day 3 which I am pretty sure is incorrect.

I'm just taking from Dannys counts, I don't have time to comb through the thread and correct mistakes.

[dubb93]

What's your theory?

I don't have one.

[Danny]

I'd like Danny to correct my day 1 vote officially at some point.

It was corrected on day one, the vote count right before the results has you on Telle only. Lathum just took an earlier post to quote.

[Danny]

I fixed Saldana voting himself, it was supposed to read Chief Rum

[Danny]

Lathum, you're up in historical draft :)

[Poli]

It was corrected on day one, the vote count right before the results has you on Telle only. Lathum just took an earlier post to quote.
QFH

[Lathum]

OK, based on the voting from the first 3 days these are the people who don't look great IMO.

1. Claphamsa- Pretty much has steered clear, 1 vote on PF 2 on Telle

4. The Jackal-Voted PB every day, including a late vote Day 3

5. Abe- has voted a villager each day, plus made a cryptic comment about BK and their roles.

13. Lerriuqs- voted 1 villager and 2 unknowns. Voted Pass day 1 who I believe to be good based on his late vote for EF Day 2.

18. Telle- Voted PB all 3 days

21. Saldana- 2 throw away votes and a Telle vote day 3, has also steered clear.

[Lathum]

I fixed Saldana voting himself, it was supposed to read Chief Rum

can I edit my post to indicate that?

[hoopsguy]

OK, based on the voting from the first 3 days these are the people who don't look great IMO.

1. Claphamsa- Pretty much has steered clear, 1 vote on PF 2 on Telle

4. The Jackal-Voted PB every day, including a late vote Day 3

5. Abe- has voted a villager each day, plus made a cryptic comment about BK and their roles.

13. Lerriuqs- voted 1 villager and 2 unknowns. Voted Pass day 1 who I believe to be good based on his late vote for EF Day 2.

18. Telle- Voted PB all 3 days

21. Saldana- 2 throw away votes and a Telle vote day 3, has also steered clear.


I would actually take out Abe at this point (for today, at the very least) as I suspect the wolves were going for a 2:1 play on BK hoping that Abe would die as well.

I do not think the kill on BK was predicated by what he had done in the thread over the first three days.

[Lathum]

I would actually take out Abe at this point (for today, at the very least) as I suspect the wolves were going for a 2:1 play on BK hoping that Abe would die as well.

I do not think the kill on BK was predicated by what he had done in the thread over the first three days.

fair enough.

I think of all of these The Jackal looks worst and would probably get my vote today if I had one.

[Danny]

can I edit my post to indicate that?

Yes, feel free to edit the posts to correct the errors I made.

[dubb93]

OK, based on the voting from the first 3 days these are the people who don't look great IMO.

1. Claphamsa- Pretty much has steered clear, 1 vote on PF 2 on Telle

4. The Jackal-Voted PB every day, including a late vote Day 3

5. Abe- has voted a villager each day, plus made a cryptic comment about BK and their roles.

13. Lerriuqs- voted 1 villager and 2 unknowns. Voted Pass day 1 who I believe to be good based on his late vote for EF Day 2.

18. Telle- Voted PB all 3 days

21. Saldana- 2 throw away votes and a Telle vote day 3, has also steered clear.

I think if you go by intent Pass should added to this list as he intended to unvote EF on day three. He actually voted Telle and forgot to unvote EF. He voted NTN, attempted to late switch off EF onto Telle and then voted PB. Not the best record there either.

[dubb93]

I think if you go by intent Pass should added to this list as he intended to unvote EF on day three. He actually voted Telle and forgot to unvote EF. He voted NTN, attempted to late switch off EF onto Telle and then voted PB. Not the best record there either.

Should be day 2.

[Lathum]

didn't realize that.

[Passacaglia]

I think if you go by intent Pass should added to this list as he intended to unvote EF on day three. He actually voted Telle and forgot to unvote EF. He voted NTN, attempted to late switch off EF onto Telle and then voted PB. Not the best record there either.

That's true.

[DaddyTorgo]

FYI - i'm copying 16gb of stuff off my HD and then completely wiping them both and reinstalling windows tonight in preparation for shipping my computer in for service, so that's where I've been today.

running linux off a bootable CD right now while stuff copies, but just about ready to start the wiping process

[Poli]

FYI, tomorrow's mah birthday. I may be single but I don't plan on spending my afternoon and evening at home. I'll try to get a vote in at some point. I could probably just vote now, but I'm hoping someone comes forth with something before I do so.

[Danny]

Oh wow, you really shouldn't have said that though, isn't it some sort of tradition to lynch the birthday boy?

[Poli]

You can die in a fire. FYI.

[Autumn]

Just buzzed in and caught up on results. I'll try to read and respond tomorrow. Quick answer, someone asked why I had Barkeep and Abe so high on my trust list and I can now say that I was almost certain that they had a lovers-type role. I'll have to reevaluate Abe now that I see that that's not the case.

[Chief Rum]

Oh wow, you really shouldn't have said that though, isn't it some sort of tradition to lynch the birthday boy?

I don't know if I would call it a tradition, but we could certainly start one here and now. :p

[hoopsguy]

Jackal, did you ever come up with those posts on PF that weirded you out? Or get a chance to look at MartinD, who had a similar profile to PF?

[hoopsguy]

OK, I've seen two other people (Lathum and Autumn) publish lists to look at for today. I'll add mine as well.

Lathum's list - Clap, Jackal, Abe, Lerriuqs, Telle, Saldana
Autumn's list - Telle, Jackal, Lerriuqs
Hoop's list - Clap, Jackal, Saldana, Telle, Lerriuqs, Poli, Pass, DT

I'll note that if someone is not on my rather large list (about 50% of the people in the game) then I'm not really going to consider a vote for them.

Autumn's list of three is a subset of both my list and Lathum's list and is probably a good place to start.

Of those three, I already tried to vote for Jackal on Day 3 but saw he wasn't going to get there so moved to another candidate to try and "save" PB, who I strongly felt had been scanned by the seer. He is probably my first choice.

Lerriuqs is probably second and Telle third, but there isn't a ton of difference between those candidates for me based on voting record. At this point I think Telle is certainly making herself available and posting thoughts much more than Lerriuqs, which should count for something.

I also think the idea that Telle was trying to get a 3rd candidate into the D1 vote to "save" EF doesn't hold up all that well, based on past games that we have played. I believe that her NTN stance represented her true thoughts on the matter and it was not a smokescreen to help a wolf. So that also has diminished her as a candidate for me over the past couple of days, although her voting record is one of the worst in the game.

[Poli]

[shakes head at hoops]I still think a vote for Telle is the right move. I could get behind a jackal vote now, though, after the "stunt" (or whatever you call it) he pulled.

Honestly, I don't know what I have to do to please you, hoops. Your argument for me is I didn't vote Eaglefan out early enough? Seriously, is that it? I'm about to readd you to my rolls eyes list. As a matter of fact, if Eagle hadn't dropped a fake reveal on us at then end my vote would have stayed on Telle (it was on Telle, right?). Since we were told we couldn't reveal if we didn't have a listed role, I felt he was acting out of desperation and wanted to help keep that coffin shut. After the last game, all know how well the coffin stays shut, don't we DANNY?

It's my pet theory, after seeing BK's role, that we have someone here who's vote counts as two votes...behind the scenes, of course. Clearly I can't prove that as of yet, but I imagine with us all having roles, and most of them unlisted, that Danny broke out every conceivable idea he had for a role...including Barkeep's.

The lover's/brothers/whatever roles were definitely an option for abe/barkeep. My thought on that is abe may have been able to maybe find someone to attach to...and that he chose barkeep and found out his role. I don't know...it's got to be something.
[/shakes head]

[Poli]

If we don't hear anything concrete by lunchtime, I plan on placing my vote on Telle or Jackal.

[Poli]

In fact, I'll go ahead and

VOTE TELLE

[Poli]

Vote subject to move based on information.

[Poli]

Poli waves at Telle.

[Autumn]

All right, I think people were asking me A) why Poli was on my trust list, and B) why Lathum was not. First let me make clear that I don't have anyone on a "definitely trust" list, just a "looks better than average".

A) I have Poli on my trust list I believe simply because of his vote on EF day two which put the nail ni the coffin. Looking at his other votes, he's also voted Telle twice, who I strongly suspect.

B) Lathum, while you did have a good vote on EF Day 1, which I noted in my suspect list, your activity on Day 2 particularly, followed by a strong vote on PB day three is enough to counter that in my mind. I don't have you on a suspect list, but it seems very possible that you're an independent faction, at least, given your strange day 2 activity.

[Autumn]

TheJackal claimed an independent status of sorts at the beginning of the game. While that certainly could be faked that makes me lean away from him out of my three slightly. Independents could be trouble, but if they count as a villager I don't want to lynch them. I'm likely to therefore go Lerriuqs or Telle.

[Poli]

I'm not sure I have a trust list at this point. I was suspicious of Abe until Barkeep's death, so I suppose that garners some trust from me. I haven't been keeping track of voting records, I guess I should be. Maybe that would help me in developing some trust.

I do have a nontrust list, starting with Telle, moving to Jackal, and honestly, maybe a little hoopsguy in there. I worry that he's trying to throw mud at a bunch of us and hope that something sticks.

Not that I'm angry, hoops, it's just the way I feel.

[claphamsa]

[shakes head at hoops]I still think a vote for Telle is the right move. I could get behind a jackal vote now, though, after the "stunt" (or whatever you call it) he pulled.

Honestly, I don't know what I have to do to please you, hoops. Your argument for me is I didn't vote Eaglefan out early enough? Seriously, is that it? I'm about to readd you to my rolls eyes list. As a matter of fact, if Eagle hadn't dropped a fake reveal on us at then end my vote would have stayed on Telle (it was on Telle, right?). Since we were told we couldn't reveal if we didn't have a listed role, I felt he was acting out of desperation and wanted to help keep that coffin shut. After the last game, all know how well the coffin stays shut, don't we DANNY?

It's my pet theory, after seeing BK's role, that we have someone here who's vote counts as two votes...behind the scenes, of course. Clearly I can't prove that as of yet, but I imagine with us all having roles, and most of them unlisted, that Danny broke out every conceivable idea he had for a role...including Barkeep's.

The lover's/brothers/whatever roles were definitely an option for abe/barkeep. My thought on that is abe may have been able to maybe find someone to attach to...and that he chose barkeep and found out his role. I don't know...it's got to be something.
[/shakes head]


FWIW with the lovers brothers role, its usualy lynch one lynch them both!

[Poli]

Yeah, usually being the key word. A few games back Danny and I were in that position. His death did not bring upon mine.

[claphamsa]

well ok :)

[Poli]

We have 16 players still in the game, right? I think the breakdown is 12/4 and more like 11/5 with the sympathizer out there still. If the needlings can convert someone, God help us.

I think it's vitally important for us to get another one of these right.

[DaddyTorgo]

i've thought that about hoops for a couple days now - that he's just flinging a lot of stuff out there trying to sow confusion and put out as many candidates as possible.

[Poli]

It worries me that he seems to be defending Telle. I just don't trust Telle at all at this point and yet he seems certain that Telle is good. One of us has to be wrong.

[Poli]

Okay, I have to get some work done. I'll be back.

[Danny]

Okay, I have to get some work done. I'll be back.

She works hard for the money!

[Passacaglia]

Wait -- EF made a fake reveal? When was that?

[Telle]

I don't have a major role but I have a fun role. I don't know what I saw and it may have been a BG block but I only know I saw two people talking to each other last night. I know who one of them was but I have no idea if he was a wolf or villager.

Post 1306

[hoopsguy]

Poli, DT - do you guys think that there was a wolf who voted for EF on the day that he and PB were in the run-off?

Both of you guys seem to take umbrage to the suggestion that your votes for EF don't automatically clear you.

However, if you believe "yes, at least one wolf voted with EF" then who would you speculate might be that wolf? There should, at the very least, be some separation of trust levels that you place on those people who had good votes on Day 2.

As far as having me on your radar, by all means go ahead. But if you think that I'm "flinging stuff out there" then please come with your analysis so the rest of us can benefit from it.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't think I'm taking umbrage at it. I just think that I contributed good analysis to that situation that is being glossed-over.

[hoopsguy]

DT - so can you contribute good analysis on the current state of affairs?

[DaddyTorgo]

i can try. i haven't been paying much attention since i started fussing with my laptop on saturday morning.

over the course of the weekend i purchased one external HD (seagate 1tb - DON'T BUY), tried to use it and kept having errors with it and with my backup program, returned it yesterday and got a western digital mybook (great drive so far), swapped out a working HD for a dead drive and booted off a linux cd to copy 16gb of data yesterday onto the external drive, and then reformatted the partition on the dead drive and found it was still working (i think), and reinstalled windows last night as i was sleeping. now all i have to do is go home and check to see that the data still exists on the external HD and then delete the partition and reformat the 2nd HD and pack my laptop up to ship it back to HP to fix the defect in the plastic case that has caused a split all the way down the side of the screen.

will try to take a look at the day 2 votes and give my thoughts here this afternoon