WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[Lathum]

Man, I have this brutal headach from all the reading today. Pain in my temple and nausicious.

[dubb93]

One last time at deadline for reference later in the game, who would your vote be on right now Lathum?

[Autumn]

Clearly the wolves are happy with this result if they're letting it lie. There's quite a few of my trusted people sitting there with wasted votes right now. It makes me rethink quite a few things.

[Lathum]

right now at this second probably you, I don't think Abe is a wolf and no one else is close enough. I don't like Hoops or CR's votes and I think Jackal need closer looking at.

[Autumn]

Wow, this is a disappointing deadline.

[dubb93]

Abe, if I move to save you due to this complete lack of action here who would you be willing to move to that isn't named dubb93?

[Abe Sargent]

Wow, this is a disappointing deadline.

's ok. I wasn't a great villager this game, I got overwhelmed by the volume of posts the first three days or so. I didn;t contribute anything outside of my role. Perhaps I misplayed my role, we'll see, won;t we. I thought in a game where we have limited information, getting as much info out there as possible would be a good thing, but I suspect it got me and BK killed instead.

[Abe Sargent]

Abe, if I move to save you due to this complete lack of action here who would you be willing to move to that isn't named dubb93?

No clue.

Maybe DT? There's a vote there already. Maybe The Jackal? Lot of suspicion there.

[dubb93]

Abe, if I move to save you due to this complete lack of action here who would you be willing to move to that isn't named dubb93?

...

[dubb93]

Unvote Abe
Vote Jackal

[dubb93]

I can go Jackal based on voting record, the lack of any movement off you scares me.

[Danny]

As of 2997

1 Hoopsguy - DaddyTorgo (2879)
4 Abe - The Jackal (2853), Dubb (2854), Poli (2913), PackerFanatic (2917)
1 Lathum - Hoopsguy (2866)
1 DaddyTorgo - Saldana (2923)
2 Dubb - Autumn (2941), Abe (2950)
1 Jackal - Chief Rum (2977)

Posted for new page

[Abe Sargent]

unvote dubb
vote Jackal

Totally SD

[dubb93]

Unless we get one more I'm moving back.

[dubb93]

...

[dubb93]

time check

[Danny]

1 Hoopsguy - DaddyTorgo (2879)
3 Abe - The Jackal (2853), Poli (2913), PackerFanatic (2917)
1 Lathum - Hoopsguy (2866)
1 DaddyTorgo - Saldana (2923)
1 Dubb - Autumn (2941),
3 Jackal - Chief Rum (2977), Abe and Dubb

[dubb93]

unvote jack
vote abe

[Lathum]

I see DT here, if he doesn't move his vote I will be very suspicous of him

[Abe Sargent]

Tie is not the worst thi ng. We get to find out what th eunknown mechanic is, perhaps.

[Abe Sargent]

Well I have time

[dubb93]

Tie is not the worst thi ng. We get to find out what th eunknown mechanic is, perhaps.

I don't know if we can risk a tie, sorry Abe, based on the lack of movement I think I made the wrong call here. I just couldn't see any possible role you could of had.

[Danny]

Deadline

[Lathum]

DT present and sitting with a completely useless vote looks really bad.

[Abe Sargent]

Goodbye folks!

I get a really, really great Ha-ha! moment in a few minutes, so don;t cry on my behalf!

("Ha-ha" moments are when you're a villager, and no one believes you, but you get that final moment of vindication)

[Danny]

Final Vote Results

1 Hoopsguy - DaddyTorgo (2879)
4 Abe - The Jackal (2853), Poli (2913), PackerFanatic (2917), Dubb (3018)
1 Lathum - Hoopsguy (2866)
1 DaddyTorgo - Saldana (2923)
1 Dubb - Autumn (2941)
2 Jackal - Chief Rum (2977), Abe (3013)

[The Jackal]

Damn, dinner kept me out past deadline, I wouldn't have minded being lynched because this has been a poor game for me, I just really hope Abe is a wolf.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay Danny, let's do it.

[The Jackal]

Damnit Abe, don't be a villager.

[The Jackal]

I should just stick with voting for PF because I'm getting this wrong everytime.

[Abe Sargent]

Come on now Jackal, I gave you the best arguments you have ever heard as to why I'm a villager.

[dubb93]

Everyone who threw their vote away today is now offically on my shit list. It is too late to try and pull this hide your vote bullshit.

[Danny]

Today it is decided that Abe will be the one to leave therapy! There is silence, except for ABe who screams A HA! at the top of his lungs. Abe was the questioner

The Questioner – You like to ask questions. At one point in the game you may ask a yes/no question about one player in order to find out if they are a needie. This includes the Wannabee Therapist.

[The Jackal]

Come on now Jackal, I gave you the best arguments you have ever heard as to why I'm a villager.

I saw the argument about Alan T, it almost persuaded me to move my vote earlier, I was just hoping this lynch would be more clear, it looks like it ended up really spread out.

[The Jackal]

So he used it on BK, presumably. Sorry Abe.

[dubb93]

The Questioner – You like to ask questions. At one point in the game you may ask a yes/no question about one player in order to find out if they are a needie. This includes the Wannabee Therapist.

I don't think I have EVER seen that role. No wonder I completely missed on it. I'm not sure I would have bought that role if you flat out revealed it abe.

[Autumn]

Well, that explains a lot to me.

[The Jackal]

I think it's very possible there was only one wolf on Abe (knowing I'm not one).

[Lathum]

DT, why no switch at the end there?

[Autumn]

Daddy T definitely gets the hairy eyeball from me now for several reasons.

[EagleFan]

:popcorn:

[Lathum]

someone remind me again why PF has gotten a pass?

[Danny]

I'm going out tonight, so I will keep the standard 1am eastern deadline as I will be back later than that probably.

[The Jackal]

someone remind me again why PF has gotten a pass?

It seems like I've been the only person suggesting voting for him at any point. Hoops has had him trusted because of the vote he put on EF instead of PB on the day of the EF lynch - but in my eyes, PB hadn't voted for EF yet - if I'm a wolf I know EF is going to get at least PB's vote, possibly more, EF is in trouble.. I vote for him. That's how I saw that PF vote.

[The Jackal]

Besides that, he's just been so completely UTR that people are ignoring him because there have been candidates in the middle of the discussion and the actions.

[Lathum]

I wonder if PF and DT are the last 2 wolves.

[The Jackal]

It's more likely that we have 3 wolves left, really.

[hoopsguy]

That was disappointing.

So when Lathum is around again tomorrow I would be interested in hearing from people why they disregarded him as a candidate today. I'm not all that interested in hearing right now during the night phase, unless people are extra talkative.

[The Jackal]

If there are 3 left, it's gonna be 6-3 after tonight, if we screw up the next lynch we're pretty much done.

[Autumn]

No pass from me. He's on my current suspect list. Lathum, PF, Poli, Dubb. I think only one of those is probably good, though I'll have to take the night to evaluate DT's actions and see if I was wrong about him.

[Lathum]

That was disappointing.

So when Lathum is around again tomorrow I would be interested in hearing from people why they disregarded him as a candidate today. I'm not all that interested in hearing right now during the night phase, unless people are extra talkative.

Your sticking with this, huh?

Despite DT sitting on his hands with a useless vote at the deadline and PF hammering the nail in a villagers coffin?

[hoopsguy]

Autumn, are you "cross-clearing" Jackal/Saldana together based on Jackal's partial reveal and Saldana giving him some backing? If so, is your guess on their semi-shared roles predicated on both of them being villagers?

[hoopsguy]

Your sticking with this, huh?

Despite DT sitting on his hands with a useless vote at the deadline and PF hammering the nail in a villagers coffin?

If you are in fact a villager you should be pleased that my pressure is almost for sure keeping you alive through the night.

I agree that DT has been around at a lot of deadlines and doesn't appear to have added a ton of value to the lynch results from a villager perspective. I'll probably take a long look at this tonight.

[dubb93]

Autumn, are you "cross-clearing" Jackal/Saldana together based on Jackal's partial reveal and Saldana giving him some backing? If so, is your guess on their semi-shared roles predicated on both of them being villagers?

Is an interesting thought, I thought Jackal made it clear he was not on the same side as the person with the other role he mentioned. If Saldana admitted to being that role I must have missed it.

[Autumn]

Autumn, are you "cross-clearing" Jackal/Saldana together based on Jackal's partial reveal and Saldana giving him some backing? If so, is your guess on their semi-shared roles predicated on both of them being villagers?

I think they are both villagers, yes, based on what they said and what I know/guess about their roles.

[Lathum]

If you are in fact a villager you should be pleased that my pressure is almost for sure keeping you alive through the night.

.

gimme a break, I don't need you and your misguided theories to keep me alive.

[Lathum]

I am so excited for tonights kill, I mean, I don't usually get this excited as a wolf for a kill. Gonna be great, I think we will learn a ton!

[Lathum]

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7575/128873417345732583.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873417345732583.jpg)

[Autumn]

ooh, this could fill up these dull hours.

[Autumn]

<img src="http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=4230315">

[Autumn]

oops

<img src="http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/20/128873421591833127.jpg">

[Lathum]

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4548/128873423406434055.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873423406434055.jpg)

[Lathum]

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2743/128873426047004199.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873426047004199.jpg)

[Lathum]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2789/128873427491903431.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873427491903431.jpg)

[Autumn]

<img src="http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/20/128873428386937799.jpg">

[Lathum]

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7584/128873432532096967.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873432532096967.jpg)

[hoopsguy]

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/313/mentalnighttime.jpg

[Passacaglia]

FYI, I don't drink, either -- though I used to.

[Passacaglia]

Just thought I'd share, and I'm too lazy to make an lolcat out of that.

[Lathum]

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6632/128873437908084647.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873437908084647.jpg)

[Poli]

It was a joke, I've never smoked weed either, calm down.
:confused:

I wasn't going to lose sleep over it.

[Lathum]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6520/128873442009648391.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873442009648391.jpg)

[Alan T]

FYI, I don't drink, either -- though I used to.

Same here for the most part. I did enough drinking in college. These days, maybe once every 4-6 months I'll have a drink if not longer.

[claphamsa]

wow......

[Poli]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2789/128873427491903431.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873427491903431.jpg)

:thumbsup:

[Poli]

Makes me miss my dog and cat.

[claphamsa]

hell even my cats drink more than pass and alan....

[Poli]

No pass from me. He's on my current suspect list. Lathum, PF, Poli, Dubb. I think only one of those is probably good, though I'll have to take the night to evaluate DT's actions and see if I was wrong about him.
I thought you and I were pretty well in tune during this game. I don't know what to think of this.

[Poli]

I've had a beer since the New Year. I won't be upset if that is my last.

[Danny]

Poli, do you not drink because of a bad experience or for personal/spiritual reasons?

[Autumn]

Poli, I have you high on my "voting/actions" trust list. But my list of who the possible Needies could be based on who is left who I don't think I know what they're up to, you're on that list. In other words, I think that list is who could possibly house the Needies at this point, not based on trust but just who is left without a role I can figure out.

[Poli]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/20/128873450301673744.jpg (http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=4230679)
moar funny pictures (http://icanhascheezburger.com)http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/%3Ca%20href=%27http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=4230679%27%20%3E%3Cimg%20src=%27http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/20/128873450301673744.jpg%27%20alt=%27funny%20pictures%27%20/%3E%3C/a%3E%3Cbr%20/%3Emoar%20%3Ca%20href=%27http://icanhascheezburger.com%27%3Efunny%20pictures%3C/a%3E

[Poli]

Poli, do you not drink because of a bad experience or for personal/spiritual reasons?
Bad experiences with my parents and family drinking early on. I could not count the amount of times I was asked by a drunken mother or stepfather which one I loved more and who I was going to live with...only to have them forgive and forget themselves the next day. The house torn apart, dishes and windows broken, being treated as a second hand citizen in your own home.

I don't miss any of those things in my life. I understand my experiences with alcohol in my family life aren't necessarily those of the majority, but it most certainly shaped my view.

As I grew older, my stance was easily adapted into my religious views as well.

[Poli]

Poli, I have you high on my "voting/actions" trust list. But my list of who the possible Needies could be based on who is left who I don't think I know what they're up to, you're on that list. In other words, I think that list is who could possibly house the Needies at this point, not based on trust but just who is left without a role I can figure out.
Understood.

[Poli]

Bad experiences with my parents and family drinking early on. I could not count the amount of times I was asked by a drunken mother or stepfather which one I loved more and who I was going to live with...only to have them forgive and forget themselves the next day. The house torn apart, dishes and windows broken, being treated as a second hand citizen in your own home.

I don't miss any of those things in my life. I understand my experiences with alcohol in my family life aren't necessarily those of the majority, but it most certainly shaped my view.

As I grew older, my stance was easily adapted into my religious views as well.

Last note: I don't look down my nose at Lathum or anyone that does drink. I did so, mistakenly, to try and save a marriage that wasn't worth saving. It's your choice.

Okay, besides Lathum, I don't look down my nose at anyone. ;)

[Autumn]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/20/128873455459696103.jpg

[Poli]

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/funny-dog-pictures-no-loves-me.jpg

[Poli]

I miss my Snuggle Dog.

[Abe Sargent]

Damn it, would all you bitches grow balls and knock this cutesy wootsy stuff off. Damn!

[Poli]

http://b7.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00552/75/18/552218157_l.jpg (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=689096&imageID=24738271)

My kids: Snuggles and Charmin.
(http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=689096&imageID=24738271)

[Lathum]

Damn it, would all you bitches grow balls and knock this cutesy wootsy stuff off. Damn!

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9125/128873463870019047.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=128873463870019047.jpg)


yes that is my dog

[Lathum]

http://b7.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00552/75/18/552218157_l.jpg (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=689096&imageID=24738271)

My kids: Snuggles and Charmin.
(http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=689096&imageID=24738271)

charmin looks pissed

[Autumn]

All right, I'm out probably until night deadline, if I do check back in. Good luck all. Well, not the Needies.

[Danny]

Bad experiences with my parents and family drinking early on. I could not count the amount of times I was asked by a drunken mother or stepfather which one I loved more and who I was going to live with...only to have them forgive and forget themselves the next day. The house torn apart, dishes and windows broken, being treated as a second hand citizen in your own home.

I don't miss any of those things in my life. I understand my experiences with alcohol in my family life aren't necessarily those of the majority, but it most certainly shaped my view.

As I grew older, my stance was easily adapted into my religious views as well.

Wow, with those experiences, you should feel very good about yourself and the kind of person you turned out to be. I am going to call you Poli the warrior from now on :).

[The Jackal]

wtf happened to this thread

[Lathum]

I started drinking

[PackerFanatic]

Jackal, voting for me constantly wouldn't help your cause either, as you would be losing another good guy. I really couldn't follow along much yesterday, and went with what I thought to be a good vote (obviously, I was wrong) I think I am going to be looking hard at the analysis that Hoops posted yesterday. There is clearly something I am missing...

[dubb93]

No pass from me. He's on my current suspect list. Lathum, PF, Poli, Dubb. I think only one of those is probably good, though I'll have to take the night to evaluate DT's actions and see if I was wrong about him.

Just incase I'm the target tonight which I doubt since you are so dead set on lynching me I want to get this out there. I think it is much more likely that one of PF, Lathum, and Poli is a wolf than all of them. I'm guessing one of them and then Hoops/CR at this point. I would be shocked if Lathum is a wolf with those two the way he has been going at it with Hoops.

The Hoops/CR play makes sense when they did it. We have to assume they did it to take the heat off Hoops so he wasn't going to be the lynch, that brings it down to 6/3(it worked). They take their chances today hoping to get through on the reveal/BS again and if it works, which it looks like a good chance right now that it will yet again that brings it down to 4/3. At that point they critisize(sp?) someone during the night phase and the voting is 3/3. I think it was end game strategy and I want this out there incase I am the target tonight.

[Autumn]

But am I right that you don't have any evidence that the Hoops/CR vouch is false?

[dubb93]

But am I right that you don't have any evidence that the Hoops/CR vouch is false?

Do you have any evidence that it isn't? Do you have any evidence that I'm a wolf? Are you really the third wolf?

[dubb93]

If I go tonight ask yourself if you have been through this with hoops before.

[Lathum]

It's going to be really interesting to see who they kill tonight

[Lathum]

Kudos to the wolves for leaving around talkative players, nothing worse then when it gets down to the end and we gey 3 posts every 4 hours

[Autumn]

No, I don't have any evidence that you're a wolf. I'm seriously asking if you have any reason to doubt CR/Hoops other than standard werewolf doubt, because I would like to know if you do.

[EagleFan]

:popcorn:


Kill wolves kill
One less villager to be
Lie wolves lie
Make them too confused to see

Make em' turn, on each other
And another villager we'll smother

Kill wolves kill
One less villager to be

W-O-L-V-E-S
Wolves!!!!

[dubb93]

No, I don't have any evidence that you're a wolf. I'm seriously asking if you have any reason to doubt CR/Hoops other than standard werewolf doubt, because I would like to know if you do.

No, I have no reason other than my belief that Hoops is the most devious WW player I have ever played with.

[Lathum]

No, I have no reason other than my belief that Hoops is the most devious WW player I have ever played with.

hear hear!

[dubb93]

No, I have no reason other than my belief that Hoops is the most devious WW player I have ever played with.

I guess I could add that I know I'm not a wolf and I find it unlikely that you have nailed down every wolf (Lathum, PF, and Poli) at this point. I think it is more likely that Hoops + CR decided to vouch for each other after they saw Sal and Jack vouche for each other. That is something a smart wolf would do, especially when one of those two(hoops) had votes on him at that time.

[Lathum]

where are ya Danny?!

[Danny]

Tonight Jackal is killed. He was the bigot.

The Bigot- You believe foreigners are inferior! You have a distinct feeling that one of the group members is secretly one. Each night you may pull one player aside have a talk with them to find out if they are the foreigner. You win by lasting longer in the group than the foreigner. After succeeding you become a regular member of the group and can earn a bonus victory by also winning with the group.

[Lathum]

hmm, interesting kill choice

[Lathum]

I think Hoops gets my vote today.

I just dont trust him

[Lathum]

Vote Hoops

[Lathum]

OK, so there is no way I trust Hoops or CR now. With the BG out of the way there is zero reason not to kill one of them. At best they are lovers/ brothers and at worst you reduce their circle of trust.

[Poli]

I will be at the Science Center today. Sometimes I have net access there, sometimes I don't. I can't believe I'm alive this morning. I am a little surprised that I am after the way I answered hoops yesterday.

[hoopsguy]

No, I have no reason other than my belief that Hoops is the most devious WW player I have ever played with.

This drew a chuckle because I view you in the same light. And it is 100% meant as a compliment.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so would the remaining players please indicate why you did not see any reason to vote for Lathum yesterday? I'm not saying you have to vote for him today, but I want to see the arguments for why you think that he is a villager.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, did Jackal have the role that you thought he would have?

[hoopsguy]

Just incase I'm the target tonight which I doubt since you are so dead set on lynching me I want to get this out there. I think it is much more likely that one of PF, Lathum, and Poli is a wolf than all of them. I'm guessing one of them and then Hoops/CR at this point. I would be shocked if Lathum is a wolf with those two the way he has been going at it with Hoops.

The Hoops/CR play makes sense when they did it. We have to assume they did it to take the heat off Hoops so he wasn't going to be the lynch, that brings it down to 6/3(it worked). They take their chances today hoping to get through on the reveal/BS again and if it works, which it looks like a good chance right now that it will yet again that brings it down to 4/3. At that point they critisize(sp?) someone during the night phase and the voting is 3/3. I think it was end game strategy and I want this out there incase I am the target tonight.

There are a few assumptions in here that I do not know are true. I don't know if they are wrong either, but such is life with limited info.
1.) One of the above is a wolf rather than all three - I'm inclined to agree with you. I highly doubt all three are wolves.
2.) Lathum is definitely not a wolf with me/Chief since me/Chief are not wolves. But I would say that no matter what side I'm on, I guess.
3.) The criticize does bring voting to 3/3, but not the ratio to 3/3. We have no idea what happens in a tie.
4.) The above only works if there are in fact three remaining wolves rather than 2. I'm operating off this same assumption because it is safer to plan for 3 and have 2 than the reverse. But I have no idea which is in fact the truth.

[hoopsguy]

Kudos to the wolves for leaving around talkative players, nothing worse then when it gets down to the end and we gey 3 posts every 4 hours

Yep, however this does go down we have a nice group of players who will almost certainly put in their work in the thread today.

[Poli]

Real quick before I go, I think/thought that the wolves wouldn't silence one of their own at this point. Seems a little risky.

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, why no switch at the end there?

You know I wouldn't use meta-game reasons if they weren't true, right Lathum?

I have no computer at home right now while mine is in the shop. I was checking the deadline activity from my phone - started at like 7:50 unfortunately, it looked like it was pretty well established and as I started to consider changing my vote the janky-ass jave-based browser on my phone locked-up and i had to restart. at that point I knew it was too late to change.

it's the truth. not sure i expect anyone to believe it, but if you lynch me you'll just be losing a villager without the ability to do anything beneficial for the village anymore. I'd rather go after wolves at this point then lynch me out of retribution though.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm inclined to keep my vote right where it was yesterday

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[hoopsguy]

DT, can you explain why you are voting for me over Lathum? I don't think you did yesterday, but if you did feel free to just link it if nothing has changed.

[hoopsguy]

I do not know if Lathum is a wolf or not, but the fact that the idea got so very little traction yesterday while people seemed to make moves towards Abe and Jackal (both of whom I outlined defenses for, btw) makes me a bit more confident that I had a good vote yesterday but didn't do a good enough job of selling it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Part of it has to do with Lathum's argument about why kill PF over you or CR if you two are linked and are good.

Part of it has to do with a "vibe" I'm getting off your posts similar to the last game I played when you were a wolf.

Although to be honest, the survival of Lathum this deep into the game, and the fact that he has been persistantly criticized and thus hasn't had to defend any votes, does give me pause and make me think about voting for him.

I want to see how this thing develops.

[hoopsguy]

Real quick before I go, I think/thought that the wolves wouldn't silence one of their own at this point. Seems a little risky.

Silencing own of their own tomorrow would be ballsy. I didn't think it was way out of bounds yesterday, for what it is worth.

[DaddyTorgo]

errr sorry - correction - "why kill jackal over you or CR" not PF

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm open to being persuaded to change my mind hoops - but my vote will be on one of you two.

i also have an afternoon that is conference calls from 1-4pm straight, and then a meeting we're leaving for at like 4, so I don't anticipate having a huge amount of time to go over and over things unfortunately.

[hoopsguy]

Part of it has to do with Lathum's argument about why kill PF over you or CR if you two are linked and are good.

Part of it has to do with a "vibe" I'm getting off your posts similar to the last game I played when you were a wolf.

Although to be honest, the survival of Lathum this deep into the game, and the fact that he has been persistantly criticized and thus hasn't had to defend any votes, does give me pause and make me think about voting for him.

I want to see how this thing develops.

They killed Jackal, not PF.

DT (I'll actually call you that instead of MT today because I'm not looking to antagonize you in the middle of a really meaningful decision), I think that you are a villager. I'm not sure, but if push comes to shove today I am guessing you are a good guy.

If the wolves feel like they can get me or Chief in the lynch today, then there was no need to kill us last night. If they don't, then they can take one of us out tonight and hope that we are lovers (I would not say one way or the other on this because that would potentially damage the integrity of the game). The result is the same in the long term for them because they still have the numbers at 4-3 if we are not lovers or 3-3 and over if we are.

The conclusion there is that it didn't make a difference for them today, other than the fact that they knew going into today that Chief and I are really unlikely to vote for one another, barring some kind of major revelation last night. I didn't have one and I hope Chief did not either.

So they made their voting a little tougher today in that Chief and I would likely be a little harder than the norm to vote off during the day. But why not try and if it doesn't work out they get their hands dirty on N7 instead of N6? It is not like Chief or I have particularly good voting records. It is not as if we have trust outside of each other, for all intents and purposes.

[hoopsguy]

I'm very curious to hear if Autumn is still trusting Saldana.

Saldana was here earlier when I asked the question this morning about Jackal's death and his role. I did not get a response.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well thanks for calling me DT instead of MT (although it doesn't really bother me tbh).

I am a villager.

I can see your point on some level - it does make sense to try to have us villagers pick one of you off instead of them, and waste time on them. It's something to think on.

[saldana]

:D I'm very curious to hear if Autumn is still trusting Saldana.

Saldana was here earlier when I asked the question this morning about Jackal's death and his role. I did not get a response.

asking danny if i can answer.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, did Jackal have the role that you thought he would have?

You have to ask Danny if you can answer this question?

[saldana]

i dont know if i want to go with my vote from yesterday(DT), or back to hoops.

i am pretty sure i wont go to lathum without something compelling happening...i said yesterday and still think that criticizing himself with only 10 votes in play is riskier than i think he would play.

i am still afraid they are both wolves though.

[The Jackal]

Bah. I'll discuss wtf I was up to after the game is over. Good luck villagers.

[hoopsguy]

For those who are voting me instead of Chief Rum - why me as the first to go instead of him? I'm trying to understand the logic. Is it inherently more fun to vote for me?

Don't get me wrong - I'm pretty darn sure you are voting a villager with either me or Chief. But every villager knows with 100% certainty that they are a villager. It is rare to be able to say the same about any other villager, no matter how strong your reasons are for believing in them.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, what is the argument for me as a wolf versus DT as a wolf?

Is the "Hoops" argument something more than "He is still alive, he is voting for Lathum who I do not believe is a wolf"? If so, help me understand it so I can try to talk through it with the people who are villagers (maybe you?) and help us collectively make a good decision today.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, since you are voting for me can you summarize the argument?

[Lathum]

Hoops, you have totally and incorrectly honed in on me today, other then me who else do you think is a wolf?

I only ask because if I am the lynch candidate today we will be starting from square one tomorrow, although if I am the lynch candidate today it will certainly be you tomorrow with my vote leading the charge.

Also, if I am a wolf I kill you last night because

1. I may get a 2-1
2. I can still get DT or PF lynched based on voting, etc...

[Lathum]

Lathum, since you are voting for me can you summarize the argument?

1. You have a questionable voting record
2. All of a sudden you and CR vouch for each other, yet you are both alive
3. You are coming at me despite others having far bigger warts and I know I am good
4. You are playing the helpful villager role I've seen you play as a wolf in the past

[Lathum]

The only other person I would probably vote today is PF.

He hammered the nail in Abe's coffin, has been really UTR and has had other questionable votes.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, if you are not a wolf then I think you get a wolf in the Saldana/DT pairing. I tend to think that is true even if you are a wolf and there are three wolves remaining. I would probably pick Saldana as the wolf out of those two.

I've said all game long that I think Autumn and Dubb are good guys. I think everyone has assumptions at this point in the game and those are mine, beyond Chief Rum.

So that leaves a pretty shallow group for who I'm willing to consider voting for today.
1. Lathum
2. Saldana
3. PackerFanatic (trending downward because he is still alive, but votes are pretty good)
4. DaddyTorgo (feels like a malleable villager that wolves would leave alive, or a patsie if they need one based on voting record)
5. Poli - exemplary voting record up to yesterday

[Autumn]

I do still believe Saldana is a villager. I am almost certain of it. I am also almost certain of CR and Hoops. I'm hoping to clear up the rest of y'all today.

[hoopsguy]

The only other person I would probably vote today is PF.

He hammered the nail in Abe's coffin, has been really UTR and has had other questionable votes.

So why is Saldana clear in your mind, relative to PF?

[The Jackal]

This was actually perfect timing, thanks wolves, I'm going away for the weekend this afternoon. :)

[Lathum]

So why is Saldana clear in your mind, relative to PF?

The way he came at me is unlike him as a wolf and his late vote on Telle the other day.

[Lathum]

This was actually perfect timing, thanks wolves, I'm going away for the weekend this afternoon. :)

that reminds me.

I am leaving for Maine on the red eye tomorrow night and won't be back until Tuesday afternoon.

[Lathum]

I do still believe Saldana is a villager. I am almost certain of it. I am also almost certain of CR and Hoops.


why such certainty about these 3?

[Lathum]

Hoops, do you have each days voting results on a spreadsheet where you can easily post them. I'm going to either be in classes today or working on papers so I have limited time to search.

You say PF's voting record is pretty good, I remember otherwise.

Also, today is the second day DT has followed me with a quick second vote onto someone.

[Danny]

Saldana, did Jackal have the role that you thought he would have?

I'm not allowing Saldana to answer this. I would like questions/revealing/fake revealing type stuff about roles to be at a minimum over the last few days.

[hoopsguy]

1. You have a questionable voting record
2. All of a sudden you and CR vouch for each other, yet you are both alive
3. You are coming at me despite others having far bigger warts and I know I am good
4. You are playing the helpful villager role I've seen you play as a wolf in the past

1. I think a lot of people have bad voting records, especially after yesterday. Heck, I tend to think that anyone who has put a vote on me at any point in the game (even if it came off later) has a bad record because they could be a wolf probing to see if they can get me lynched. However, I understand that this is a relative term and I'm guilty as charged.

But I think my "suspicion" record is actually at least as bad because I thought that Telle was good and ended up supporting her (relative to other candidates) quite a bit. That said, I would have made sure to have a good vote on Day 5 when she went down based on what I assume the wolves knew about the seer.

2. Well, I only put the vouch out yesterday because I was concerned about where the early voting was headed. We both picked up a couple of votes and I was certain that there were a number of better options for the village. Sadly, Abe was not one of them. But the village at least had a chance yesterday to get a good vote because we came forward. That information is sitll valuable today.

Is it convenient? Well, only in the respect that it kept two villagers alive yesterday during the day. I can't speak with any certainty about the actions of the wolves at night other than to suggest that they have a certain amount of moxie to not take a shot at one of us and hope that they get two dead villagers as a result.

3. Don't overlook the quality of your own warts. Seriously, I think I had a fair amount of patience not voting for you while giving you time to demonstrate some role that was beneficial to the village. Suggestions of a role without some kind of demonstration - through votes, moderator writeups, or actionable information from you - don't hold much water to me on Day 7.

But I'm more than willing to discuss candidates that you think have bigger warts.

4. I also play helpful villager when I'm a villager. So that is kind of a tough one for me to argue one way or the other.

[Autumn]

that reminds me.

I am leaving for Maine on the red eye tomorrow night and won't be back until Tuesday afternoon.

Uh oh, if you run across me, don't say anything about the game.

[hoopsguy]

The way he came at me is unlike him as a wolf and his late vote on Telle the other day.

The day that the wolves got Telle, where they absolutely positively did not want the seer to come out and reveal because they were going to night kill him?

Or another vote on Telle (not D5)?

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, do you have each days voting results on a spreadsheet where you can easily post them. I'm going to either be in classes today or working on papers so I have limited time to search.

You say PF's voting record is pretty good, I remember otherwise.

Also, today is the second day DT has followed me with a quick second vote onto someone.

Do you want final votes or vote/unvotes?

Final votes - Autumn already posted through D5 but I'm happy to update it.

Vote/unvotes - I've listed them in the thread for each day based on notepad files I have. I don't know a more efficient way to list them but I'm willing to take suggestions.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not allowing Saldana to answer this. I would like questions/revealing/fake revealing type stuff about roles to be at a minimum over the last few days.

Wow, I thought asking him for his perceptions on the role of another player was pretty far inbounds.

[Autumn]

why such certainty about these 3?

I can't really answer that. But I am very certain.

You, I'm on the fence about. I won't be voting you today though, I'm leaning towards you telling the truth and I think time will tell.

That leaves me PF, Poli, Dubb93 and DaddyT to pick from. Those will be my choices today.

[Danny]

Wow, I thought asking him for his perceptions on the role of another player was pretty far inbounds.

I understand, but in general I want to steer discussions away from that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Also, today is the second day DT has followed me with a quick second vote onto someone.

I was also the only person voting for that person yesterday so i don't really see it as a stretch.

[Lathum]

I was also the only person voting for that person yesterday so i don't really see it as a stretch.

considering the way the voting went down yesterday I'm not sure you want to hang your hat on that one.

[Lathum]

I'm not allowing Saldana to answer this. I would like questions/revealing/fake revealing type stuff about roles to be at a minimum over the last few days.

I don't want to sidetrack us but this removes a pretty fundamental part of the game. Speculating on someone's role then using that speculation to determine your vote is half the game. Without it what are we really supposed to go by, voting history only?

I mean, why give everyone a role if you can't roleplay with it and utilize it strategicaly? Makes no sense.

[Lathum]

Do you want final votes or vote/unvotes?

Final votes - Autumn already posted through D5 but I'm happy to update it.

Vote/unvotes - I've listed them in the thread for each day based on notepad files I have. I don't know a more efficient way to list them but I'm willing to take suggestions.

can you direct me to where Autumn posted them.

[Danny]

I don't want to sidetrack us but this removes a pretty fundamental part of the game. Speculating on someone's role then using that speculation to determine your vote is half the game. Without it what are we really supposed to go by, voting history only?

I mean, why give everyone a role if you can't roleplay with it and utilize it strategicaly? Makes no sense.

I understand, but I've handicapped all players here, wolves and villagers a like regarding this. The point of the roles were to give people more information/abilities, but not having reveals as a basis of who to vote for. I approved a post of Jackal's that I should not have that basically was a full reveal, so I decided to tighten up on this.

[hoopsguy]

This is quite ugly but here is the voting list that I have, Hoops.


The Jackal 1 PurdueBrad 2 Purdue 3 PurdueBrad 4 Lerriuqs 5 Claphamsa

Abe 1 ntndeacon 2 Purdue 3 PurdueBrad 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

PackerFanatic 1 ntndeacon 2 Eaglefan 3 PurdueBrad 4 Telle 5 Telle

Hoopsguy 1 Eaglefan 2 Purdue 3 Saldana 4 Claphamsa 5 Claphamsa

Lathum 1 Eaglefan 2 Purdue 3 PurdueBrad 4 Criticized 5 Telle Criticized

Poli 1 Telle 2 Eaglefan 3 Telle 4 Telle 5 Telle

Dubb93 1 Eaglefan 2 Eaglefan 3 Saldana 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

Autumn 1 Telle 2 Eaglefan 3 Telle 4 Telle 5 Claphamsa

Chief Rum 1 Eaglefan 2 Purdue 3 Saldana 4 Claphamsa 5 Claphamsa

DaddyTorgo 1 ntndeacon 2 Eaglefan 3 PurdueBrad 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

Saldana 1 dubb 2 Hoopsguy 3 Telle 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

Here is my summary of the voting, simply going by who has voted for Wolves/Unknowns/Villagers.

5/0/0 Jackal, always voted villager
4/0/1 Abe, voted villager until day 5
3/1/1 Hoops, 3 villager, 1 wolf, 1 unknown
3/1/1 Chief, 3 villager, 1 wolf, 1 unknown
2/0/2 Lathum, wolf twice, villager twice
3/0/2 DaddtyT, 3 villager, 2 wolf
2/1/2 Saldana, 2 wolf, 1 unknown
2/1/2 Pass, 2 wolves, 1 unknown
2/0/3 Martin, wolf three times
2/0/3 Packer, voted wolf three times
1/1/3 Dubb, 3 wolf, 1 unknown
0/0/5 Poli, all villager

I put them in order of worst voting record to best, though obviously it doesn't take into account any nuances of hte vote.

Autumn's post on final votes, do not include D6.

[hoopsguy]

Vouches at this point:
Autumn - Saldana, Hoops, Chief Rum
Hoops - Chief Rum
Chief Rum - Hoops

Just so we are clear - there are two people who have expressed a high degree of certainty that I am not a wolf but I'm the only person with votes right now?

Is the assumption now that Autumn must also be a wolf along with me and Chief? I'm wondering how I have votes and no one else does right now.

[Lathum]

Hoops, my vote on you is in anticipation of you voting me, I would be willing to listen to other potential candidates for today.

[Autumn]

Hoops, I'm likely not going to vote Lathum today. Who on my target list would you be wiling to vote?

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, I still believe that you are the best vote for a wolf today. However, if Autumn has access to info that suggests you are not a good vote (along with Saldana) then I would turn to either DT or PF next.

I also have previously stated (I think? Can verify later) that I think one of DT/Saldana is good and one is a wolf. So it would probably go over to DT next.

Heck, I'll put that out now and see what happens.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[hoopsguy]

I still think that if DT is a wolf he has made some pretty curious plays. But I'm going to go check something on D1 right now ...

[Lathum]

unvote Hoops


I am leaning towards DT, he has had some questionable late voting moves.

[hoopsguy]

ugh - i forgot that deadline was 8 and didn't realize what time it was

at least it was just d1

That was DT's post, about 55 minutes after the deadline. Nothing much to see there one way or another.

[Chief Rum]

Hoops, my vote on you is in anticipation of you voting me, I would be willing to listen to other potential candidates for today.

How about instead voting for who you think is most likely a wolf?

Not really the best point of the game to do a "pre-emptive" tit for tat vote.

[hoopsguy]

DT does not have any posts in the three hours prior to the deadline. I did not go back any further than that. So he may have missed a good chunk of Day 1 entirely, rather than just not voted.

Earlier I had maintained that the wolves would talk with each other and not let one of their members miss a day where one of their members (EF) was on the line and another one (Telle) was creeping up the standings late. But maybe he just was not at his machine?

OK, the other pro-DT point I had was back on Day 4 (I think) where DT had put a vote on Telle vs Lerri that cut the margin to 6-3. It was right after Autumn had made it 6-2. I suggested that DT would not want to be part of potentially creating a run on Telle that day. It was not like D5 where they had identified the seer. The wolves would have thought Lerri was a villager.

So the only real explanation for DT putting his vote in here was that he thought it was safe to bury a vote on a wolf then, only to see a run emerge behind him? He was around at the deadline and did (along with Dubb) switch the votes when Lerri made a move to tie it up with Telle one minute before deadline.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, good, you are reconsidering. Sorry Lathum, shoulda read down to the bottom.

[Lathum]

How about instead voting for who you think is most likely a wolf?

Not really the best point of the game to do a "pre-emptive" tit for tat vote.

how about not telling me who I should vote for.

And trust me, I still have my suspicions about you and Hoops.

[Lathum]

oops,I shoulda read down to the bottom

[hoopsguy]

I can't really answer that. But I am very certain.

You, I'm on the fence about. I won't be voting you today though, I'm leaning towards you telling the truth and I think time will tell.

That leaves me PF, Poli, Dubb93 and DaddyT to pick from. Those will be my choices today.

Autumn, you said that you were on the fence with Lathum and that you believe Saldana is a villager. You have stated that you are not voting for either of them today.

The very suspicious part of me is concerned that you are indicating that you are not going to be voting for the two people I had at the top of my "wolf" list earlier this morning. This would be a pretty clever way of you to go about directing us in the wrong direction with the vote today and hope * that you are in position to win the game tonight/tomorrow with a double kill.

Staying within the bounds of what is allowed and not allowed in the thread, can you distinguish why you have different levels of trust for Lathum and Saldana right now?




* - note that I have not made any mention about the potential effectiveness, or lack thereof, associated with this hypothetical wolf plan. I would not want to suggest any further speculation on my role beyond what has been suggested by others in the thread. I hope that this is in keeping with the moderator intent :p

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't want to vote for myself because i know i'm a villager, albeit one who can now no longer provide any useful info on anybody.

i'd rather vote lathum than saldana, just b/c i don't think lathum+hoops are on the same side. but i suppose saldana + pf + lathum/hoops could be the trio of wolves left...

[hoopsguy]

DT - "no longer provide useful info on anybody"?

Can you explain the past tense here?

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm not sure that i can without talking too much about my role and having Danny crackdown on me. Basically means what it says though - i have info leading me to have favorable/unfavorable views of people in the game. unfortunately it is no longer useful info.

[Lathum]

i'm not sure that i can without talking too much about my role and having Danny crackdown on me. Basically means what it says though - i have info leading me to have favorable/unfavorable views of people in the game. unfortunately it is no longer useful info.

because they are dead?

[Autumn]

Staying within the bounds of what is allowed and not allowed in the thread, can you distinguish why you have different levels of trust for Lathum and Saldana right now?

I know Danny wants us to stay away from role talk. I think I can say that I have not yet seen all of the evidence in thread that I would like to supporting Lathum's claims of a role. There is some lingering doubt that he might be faking one. I don't feel that way about Saldana, and I think Jackal's death should confirm that for others.

[Autumn]

I'm still willing to consider DT today, but I'm more interested in pursuing PackerFan and Dubb. I feel they're top suspects out of the ones I have left. Since you have shown willingness to possibly go after PF, Hoops, and i think others have, I will try him.

<b>VOTE PACKERFANATIC</b>

[hoopsguy]

If Dubb has played as a wolf he has made really, really daring votes at times that were particularly damaging to the wolves. And additionally put in votes that were not necessarily favorable to the wolves.

D1 - put EF up 4-2
D2 - another EF vote in a tight race with PB
D4 - put a vote on Telle tying her up at 5-5

Those are the ones off the top of my head. I believe he also had unvote opportunities that he did not take. But I would have to go back through my day-by-day notes to validate my recollections on the "non-votes".

That is why I'm more or less willing to accept that he is not a wolf and give him all the credit he is due if he pulled the wool over my eyes.

[saldana]

i honestly have no idea where to go today..i really want to see either hoops or lathum lynched just because it will put an end to the question...i also want DT to go down because of his deadline activities for the past 2 days in a row.

right now i am leaning towards hoops for a combination of voting record and gut.

[DaddyTorgo]

because they are dead?

*nods*

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY

[Lathum]

that's somewhat convenient.

[Autumn]

only as convenient as your role not having to come into play yet. I believe you're both in the same pot.

[Autumn]

I'm not sure why people are seeing the Lathum/Hoops back and forth as condemning one or the other. They seem clearly two players suspicious of each other, and both vocal ones. Why couldn't it be villager/villager? Not that htere couldn't be a wolf there, but I don't buy this reasoning of "having" to go there to settle a question.

[Lathum]

I'm not sure why people are seeing the Lathum/Hoops back and forth as condemning one or the other. They seem clearly two players suspicious of each other, and both vocal ones. Why couldn't it be villager/villager? Not that htere couldn't be a wolf there, but I don't buy this reasoning of "having" to go there to settle a question.

I agree, seems like a very wolfy way to get a solid player lynched.

[Lathum]

only as convenient as your role not having to come into play yet. I believe you're both in the same pot.

I would agree with this, except DT is claiming he is no longer of use to us while my ability has yet to manifest itself.

DT, was your ability a one time thing?

[Lathum]

dola- he may not be able to answer that which makes me crazy.

[Autumn]

But you've admitted that yours is out of your control to manifest. Which I can understand, but leaves the rest of us in the spot of having to believe both or either or neither of you.

[PackerFanatic]

Besides me being UTR (which I am sure you will say), what is the case against me? My vote yesterday was off, but it didn't really seem like anyone knew what was up yesterday.

[DaddyTorgo]

no

[DaddyTorgo]

i have no banannas

[Lathum]

I have some theories about DT and role but I guess I have to keep it to myself

[DaddyTorgo]

till after the game yep - but i will say you're probably right lathum

[DaddyTorgo]

*breakin the rules...breakin the rules*

HI CHIEF RUM!!! Rare midday visit from you!!!

[Chief Rum]

I'm still willing to consider DT today, but I'm more interested in pursuing PackerFan and Dubb. I feel they're top suspects out of the ones I have left. Since you have shown willingness to possibly go after PF, Hoops, and i think others have, I will try him.

<b>VOTE PACKERFANATIC</b>

Autumn, you're high on my trust list (not "hoops" high, but high), and your reads have seemed to be good, so I am inclined to follow you onto PF. I think if I was going on my own, I might lean toward DT, but that's tough--I am influenced by hoops' noting some of the decisions DT has made which would seem to lead to him being a villager. My DT feel is mroe gut than anything.

From what I can tell, PF has a good vote or two as well, but I think it was fleeting enough that he could have been doing it as a trust vote.

I don't know that I am ready to vote Lathum, but I think it's interesting to note that we seem to be having trouble pinning potential wolves down in the remainder of the village. By process of elimination, it would almost lead one to Lathum, despite his protestations. At some point (and soon, we don't have much time), we may have to consider him more carefully.

For now, though, I am comfortable trying to follow vote record and vouching to an extent.

I'm with hoops on dubb, BTW. Not sure he could eb a wolf and make the moves he did. If he did, kudos to him.

[Autumn]

I agree, Chief. Basically I feel like process of elimination has led me to a list of suspects, and I'm sure the wolves must be there. Frankly, they're not the ones I would necessarily distrust the most, or the ones with the worst voting records. Frankly, Jackal and Abe had the worst voting records, so I'm not sure we can go too strongly by that.

Lathum has a wolf-vibe, sure, but I usually feel that way every game. I am trending towards believing him on his role and therefore his villager status but I may very well vote him in a day or two. This day however I think we have better candidates, by which I mean candidates who don't have anything to vouch for them other than perhaps voting. Frankly, I think maybe the wolves have played a game of giving themselves good voting records, as nobody left has a real bad voting record, and most of the villagers voted off have had abysmal ones.

Poli, Dubb and PF have so far not had to risk much in conversation, they're UTR I guess you could say though. I'd like to have the pressure on them and see what they can offer to sway us. I think we have at worst a 2/3 shot of hitting a wolf there.

[Autumn]

I would not normally encourage the village to follow my hunches. I don't have a knack for that. But I"m putting myself out front here because I think I'm working with more information than the rest of the village.

[Lathum]

Is it just me or does Poli seem to have to good a voting record?

[Autumn]

Well, he was latched on to Telle for quite a while, so that's what bumped his numbers so high, FWIW

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree, Chief. Basically I feel like process of elimination has led me to a list of suspects, and I'm sure the wolves must be there. Frankly, they're not the ones I would necessarily distrust the most, or the ones with the worst voting records. Frankly, Jackal and Abe had the worst voting records, so I'm not sure we can go too strongly by that.

Lathum has a wolf-vibe, sure, but I usually feel that way every game. I am trending towards believing him on his role and therefore his villager status but I may very well vote him in a day or two. This day however I think we have better candidates, by which I mean candidates who don't have anything to vouch for them other than perhaps voting. Frankly, I think maybe the wolves have played a game of giving themselves good voting records, as nobody left has a real bad voting record, and most of the villagers voted off have had abysmal ones.

Poli, Dubb and PF have so far not had to risk much in conversation, they're UTR I guess you could say though. I'd like to have the pressure on them and see what they can offer to sway us. I think we have at worst a 2/3 shot of hitting a wolf there.


Based on your last paragraph - we've seen that dubb has made some votes that would have been tough for a wolf, and i'm willing to give poli the benefit of the doubt (although he could be the wolf that they decided to use to "push" Telle so that she could brutal-someone), but I'm not sure that's our highest percentage play.

Of those 3 names you mentioned then, I think that leads to PF.

[DaddyTorgo]

I will give kudos to the wolves this game though - they've played it quite well.

[Lathum]

this has nothing to do with the game.

someone give me a number between 1-9

[hoopsguy]

7

[hoopsguy]

Slow day when I'm the first reply, three minutes later.

[Lathum]

ok, now I need a number 1-5

[Danny]

What is this for?

[Danny]

5

[Lathum]

ok, thanks

[lerriuqs]

What is this for?
http://images.appshopper.com/screenshots/302/890805.jpg

[saldana]

I would agree with this, except DT is claiming he is no longer of use to us while my ability has yet to manifest itself.

DT, was your ability a one time thing?

when exactly will your ability manifest itself...that is hardly a role reveal, since i am not asking what your ability is...simply a timeframe

[Lathum]

when exactly will your ability manifest itself...that is hardly a role reveal, since i am not asking what your ability is...simply a timeframe

Danny won't allow me to say, but I think I've made enough references to point in the correct direction.

[hoopsguy]

I remain extremely skeptical on Lathum's role and very much look forward to seeing what it is in the postgame if in fact he is a villager.

[saldana]

ok...so heres my thing today...i dont think both lathum and hoops are villagers, but i cant decide which one to go with.

if we lynch hoops, and are wrong, we lose a villager, then we lose the night kill as well and go down two for the day to however many wolves are left.

but, if we lynch lathum today, and he is telling the truth about not being able to be lynched, we only go down one (the night kill), and we have ended the lathum question....i cannot imagine a wolf role that needs to be lynched twice in the same game with a brutal and a cunning.

vote lathum

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE PACKERFANATIC

[DaddyTorgo]

saldana raises an interesting point about lathum - and one that we probably should have resolved long ago

[saldana]

also, i have iron pigs tickets for tonight, so i will not be around at the deadline

[Autumn]

anyone keeping a vote count?

[DaddyTorgo]

iron pigs? is that a band??

i should be around after 6:30 i hope

[Lathum]

WTF is an iron pig?

[Lathum]

saldana raises an interesting point about lathum - and one that we probably should have resolved long ago

and what point is that?

[PackerFanatic]

VOTE LATHUM

Sal makes a good point about Lathum's role, whatever that may be. This vote is subject to change, but I think the count is pretty close as it is.

[Lathum]

hmmm

not a fan.

I see Sals points but the wolves also know this gives us another day of not killing a wolf.

[saldana]

iron pigs? is that a band??

i should be around after 6:30 i hope

WTF is an iron pig?

the phillies AAA franchise = the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs

[dubb93]

Getting caught up.

[Lathum]

the phillies AAA franchise = the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs

who you going with?

[hoopsguy]

PF, why Lathum today and not yesterday?

What made Abe more compelling yesterday than Lathum at that time?

[dubb93]

Just so we are clear - there are two people who have expressed a high degree of certainty that I am not a wolf but I'm the only person with votes right now?


If Autumn comes out and reveals that he KNOWS you are a villager like CR I would expect every player in the game other than you 3 to vote for one of you.

[Lathum]

OK, here is the thing with Sals plan.

We assume we are 6-3. If we don't have a lynch today that puts us at 5-3 after the night kill that can't be blocked.

Which means we have to be 100% tomorrow or we are screwed.

NOW

if we lynch a villager today we are at 5-3 going into the night phase. They get their kill and it is 4-3 and we still have a shot at a kill tomorrow to stay alive.

so either way we have to be 100% today or tomorrow.

Now if you think I am a wolf by all means vote for me, but if you don't then I think we need to try and find a wolf today. By voting today we get 2 shots, one today and 1 tomorrow. By using Sals plan we only get 1 shot at it tomorrow.

[PackerFanatic]

It was between the two of them for me, and no one other than you was giving good reasons why Lathum was a better candidate. I still don't know if he is even a good candidate today, but like Sal, I am curious to see what it is that triggers his role that he has been talking about since day 2 and I think what he is could determine a lot going forward.

[dubb93]

i don't want to vote for myself because i know i'm a villager, albeit one who can now no longer provide any useful info on anybody.

i'd rather vote lathum than saldana, just b/c i don't think lathum+hoops are on the same side. but i suppose saldana + pf + lathum/hoops could be the trio of wolves left...

Are you indicating that your role has suggested that Lathum and Hoops aren't on the same side?

[PackerFanatic]

UNVOTE LATHUM

Good point...I am not 100% convinced you are a wolf, and I'd rather have 1 additional chance to get it right tomorrow than royally screw us over today.

[dubb93]

Poli, Dubb and PF have so far not had to risk much in conversation, they're UTR I guess you could say though. I'd like to have the pressure on them and see what they can offer to sway us. I think we have at worst a 2/3 shot of hitting a wolf there.

It is hard to stay UTR when you have made the votes I have. If you think I am UTR so far this game then I think you are wolf spewing shit and hoping it sticks.

[hoopsguy]

Votes through post #3237:

Lathum - Saldana (3219)
DT - Hoops (3168)
PF - Autumn (3183), DT (3220)

#3113 - Lathum votes Hoops 1-0
#3123 - DT votes Hoops 2-0
#3168 - Hoops votes DT 2-1 Hoops over DT
#3170 - Lathum unvotes Hoops 1-1 Hoops/DT
#3183 - Autumn votes PF 1-1-1 Hoops/DT/PF
#3187 - DT unvotes Hoops 1-1 DT/PF
#3219 - Saldana votes Lathum 1-1-1 DT/PF/Lathum
#3220 - DT votes PF 2-1-1 PF over DT/Lathum
#3227 - PF votes Lathum 2-2-1 PF/Lathum over DT
#3237 - PF unvotes Lathum 2-1-1 PF over DT/Lathum

[dubb93]

Vote Hoops

I think I provided my reasons like night and I see no reason to change my mind with what I seen in here so far today. I just really have a bad feeling that Hoops is playing the role of puppet master here and it appears so far everyone is eating it up. I'm having a hard time so far this game finding even one time where Hoops has questioned someone and convinced them to go elsewhere and it actually ended up being the right move for the village.

[Lathum]

I'm really torn.

Part of me feels Hoops is playing us, but the only way I see that is if they have some double kill mechanic.

[Autumn]

It is hard to stay UTR when you have made the votes I have. If you think I am UTR so far this game then I think you are wolf spewing shit and hoping it sticks.

I tried to make clear that I was referring to in conversation, not in voting. As I said, you have a good voting record.

[dubb93]

I'm really torn.

Part of me feels Hoops is playing us, but the only way I see that is if they have some double kill mechanic.

If they have 3 left and it is 4/3 today they have alot of freedom tomarrow. I really see it as end game strat here on the Hoops/CR reveal. As I already said they crit one of us remaining villagers tomorrow and then I would guess they put out 3 early quick votes on someone and hope the tie mechanic is either tie=no lynch or tie=first to receive last vote first as it is in nearly every game I have ever played.

I really think it is short sighted to think there is no way Hoops and CR have thought this through and have come up with a plan if they are both wolves.

[hoopsguy]

Vote Hoops

I think I provided my reasons like night and I see no reason to change my mind with what I seen in here so far today. I just really have a bad feeling that Hoops is playing the role of puppet master here and it appears so far everyone is eating it up. I'm having a hard time so far this game finding even one time where Hoops has questioned someone and convinced them to go elsewhere and it actually ended up being the right move for the village.

How about yesterday, when I suggested Abe was not the right choice prior to him launching his own defense?

Dubb, do you think that me + Chief + Autumn are the last wolves and we have a double kill metric in place to make that work? Work through the numbers, come up with a way that works. It is kind of a useless exercise with me not being a wolf, but I want you to draw that conclusion yourself.

[dubb93]

How about yesterday, when I suggested Abe was not the right choice prior to him launching his own defense?

Dubb, do you think that me + Chief + Autumn are the last wolves and we have a double kill metric in place to make that work? Work through the numbers, come up with a way that works. It is kind of a useless exercise with me not being a wolf, but I want you to draw that conclusion yourself.

Done and done

[hoopsguy]

If they have 3 left and it is 4/3 today they have alot of freedom tomarrow. I really see it as end game strat here on the Hoops/CR reveal. As I already said they crit one of us remaining villagers tomorrow and then I would guess they put out 3 early quick votes on someone and hope the tie mechanic is either tie=no lynch or tie=first to receive last vote first as it is in nearly every game I have ever played.

I really think it is short sighted to think there is no way Hoops and CR have thought this through and have come up with a plan if they are both wolves.

Really risky to rush to the "first to three, hope I guess the tiebreaker" when the alternative is to play it more slowly and take advantage of how confused the villagers have been just about the entire game.

[Autumn]

I can be sure at this point that Hoops is not playing us. If you assume Hoops/CR are good, where would you vote, Lathum?

[dubb93]

I can be sure at this point that Hoops is not playing us. If you assume Hoops/CR are good, where would you vote, Lathum?

LOL Now the 3 of you are vouching for each other? You have to be kidding me.

[dubb93]

This is really starting to smell of Hoops more and more.

[Lathum]

Vote Hoops

I have to go with my gut here