WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[claphamsa]

yes

[Poli]

Yeah, but what are our options at this point?

[PurdueBrad]

Reasons to vote for me:

Lathum said so

You get info from slaying me

I don't have an important role

Reasons not to: I am good

So I understand why most have voted for me.

[Passacaglia]

Well I've got to go very soon. There's a lot of people on. I've already tried a third option and it got no traction, but I'm willing to change again. What have you got?

[Poli]

I'm willing to go with the Telle option. Reviewing PB's post about Telle, I find it somewhat compelling. Telle was acting...weird, no doubt.

[Passacaglia]

Let's do it.


VOTE TELLE


And I'm out.

[Telle]

I'm willing to go with the Telle option. Reviewing PB's post about Telle, I find it somewhat compelling. Telle was acting...weird, no doubt.

Oh that's nothing new.. just ask RendeR ;) Oh wait, you meant about the game...

[PurdueBrad]

This could really backfire on me.

unvote EF

vote Telle

[Poli]

This is over a 2 hour period approximately. And her vote on me came just shortly after I moved to ntn.
Going to the quote itself will take you to what PB quoted from Telle.

[Telle]

Let's do it.


VOTE TELLE


And I'm out.

Don't you have to unvote EF first?

[Poli]

This might make me look like I'm leading a crusade, which I'm not.

However
UNVOTE PB
VOTE TELLE

[PurdueBrad]

Although I was tempted to try and drum up a run on Hoops just to see him seethe.

[Poli]

I'll buy you pizza at The Silo if you do.

[Barkeep49]

still catching up but this is not necessaraly true. Unless there is more info available I probably don't vote PB tomorrow

don't make me do it, please, i can't, i won't i don't want to, no no no!!

stop stop stop stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And people are still voting PB because of Lathum?

Unvote Purdue
Vote Hoops

[PurdueBrad]

Hmmmm, I could have a date with Poli...

[PurdueBrad]

I wondered what people made of Lathum's "no no no" post.

[Poli]

I saw the votes on hoops earlier, but I didn't catch why.

So, why?

[Barkeep49]

See CR in 1165 for why I didn't vote for EF. Well stated.

[Poli]

I wondered what people made of Lathum's "no no no" post.
Weird.

[Barkeep49]

I wondered what people made of Lathum's "no no no" post.
I take it as he's being forced to do something against you and that the coercion will be publicly revealed. This is why he's not afraid of you coming up villager since he knows the writeup will vindicate his actions.

[Poli]

Hmmmm, I could have a date with Poli...
FYI, THERE IS NO "THE SILO" IN ST. LOUIS. I WILL NOT GO TO CHICAGO JUST FOR PIZZA.

[Barkeep49]

Sorry I made my hoops post before catching up. What's the telle logic? I'm certainly willing to go there.

[Chief Rum]

The Lathum thing weirds me out, too. But I don't know that I see enough reason to switch to Telle. The only thing I have some confidence in is that the EF is indeed a villager.

Kinda bein' a whiny villager, but a villager all the same. ;)

It would almost make more sense, if we're going to run off of PB, to switch to Lathum. Although I can also see the "compelled vote" logic abit.

I think it's likely villagers all around.

[Barkeep49]

Hmmmm, I could have a date with Poli...
You should make yourself willing to come down to the Chicago area anyway. We have a good time when we get together.

[PurdueBrad]

FYI, THERE IS NO "THE SILO" IN ST. LOUIS. I WILL NOT GO TO CHICAGO JUST FOR PIZZA.
I'm worth it (at least the wife thinks from time to time).

[Barkeep49]

The Lathum thing weirds me out, too. But I don't know that I see enough reason to switch to Telle. The only thing I have some confidence in is that the EF is indeed a villager.

Kinda bein' a whiny villager, but a villager all the same. ;)

It would almost make more sense, if we're going to run off of PB, to switch to Lathum. Although I can also see the "compelled vote" logic abit.

I think it's likely villagers all around.
So why not join on a 3rd candidate?

[dubb93]

I take it as he's being forced to do something against you and that the coercion will be publicly revealed. This is why he's not afraid of you coming up villager since he knows the writeup will vindicate his actions.

That would explain the insanity and some of the things he has said today.

[PurdueBrad]

BK, I've never been to a get together and want to. We need to get one together at a beer garden somewhere.

[Chief Rum]

So why not join on a 3rd candidate?

I don't have a compelling reason to switch off of PB. No one stands out above PB. So why switch? PB might be asmuch of a villager as some other 3rd candidate, but no other case is strong enough to argue for the switch.

[Chief Rum]

All right, I am heading home from work. Will be out until after deadline, of course. So good luck to the candidates. Hope we get a wolf.

[Barkeep49]

Can someone explain the Telle vote? I prefer my vote to matter, than not, but also prefer it to be right.

[Poli]

BK, I've never been to a get together and want to. We need to get one together at a beer garden somewhere.
That's a long drive for pizza for me.

[Barkeep49]

That's a long drive for pizza for me.
Lathum drove in from Cincinatti for a day of fun... Having done both those drives St. Louis is many times easier.

[Poli]

Agreed. However, I've done that drive about eleventy billion times in my 7 years of Chicago.

[claphamsa]

vote telle

[dubb93]

Any idea of the vote count at this point?

[PurdueBrad]

BK- Her seeming protection ntn day 1.

[PurdueBrad]

Any idea of the vote count at this point?


PB- 4201
EF- 2018
Telle- 3


Or, in other words, I don't have a vote count.

[dubb93]

BK- Her seeming protection ntn day 1.

Wasn't NtN a villager?

[Telle]

BK- Her seeming protection ntn day 1.

So me defending a now-known villager because I felt like people were doing something shitty is reason for voting for me?

[Barkeep49]

BK- Her seeming protection ntn day 1.
For real? I'm changing my vote a 4th time because of that? *sigh*

Unvote hooops
Vote telle

[Poli]

Wasn't NtN a villager?
Ewh, I forgot about that.

[PurdueBrad]

So me defending a now-known villager because I felt like people were doing something shitty is reason for voting for me?

Hi, didn't we have this talk several hours ago?


Yeah dubb, ntn would only be known good at the time to a wolf who could be trying to garner trust. Otherwise, why anchor yourself to somebody on day 1 like that?

[Telle]

As of post # 1290:

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)
7 - EagleFan - Alan T (951), Autumn (969), DaddyTorgo (971), dubb (1014), MartinD (1112), PackerFanatic (1123), Passacaglia (1157)
2 - hoopsguy - saldana (1194), Barkeep (1264)
3 - Telle - PurdueBrad (1258), Poli (1261), claphamsa (1285)

[Autumn]

Trying to catch up but not going to mak it before deadline. A summary anyone?

[Poli]

Sigh.

[Barkeep49]

So me defending a now-known villager because I felt like people were doing something shitty is reason for voting for me?
I know right? It's not as absurd as it first seems since a wolf will know who the villagers are and can thus defend aggressively. But it is pretty stupid. I know I'm voting for you but I think there's a much stronger case to be made for PB's and EF's innocence than yours.

[PurdueBrad]

Hell, I have no problem voting Hoops, I think I'm going to ultimately be stuck voting EF, and my read on Telle, as I've said as well, is about odd play.

[Telle]

Hi, didn't we have this talk several hours ago?


Yeah dubb, ntn would only be known good at the time to a wolf who could be trying to garner trust. Otherwise, why anchor yourself to somebody on day 1 like that?

I didn't "anchor" myself to anyone. I just said that voting for him because you didn't like his voting style was a shitty thing to do and I wasn't going to pile on to that.

[PurdueBrad]

Her Abe vote was about protecting ntn, her me vote pushed that agenda as well, I don't think anybody else did that twice.


Both votes she made were to protect an unknown entity to most people.

[PurdueBrad]

I didn't "anchor" myself to anyone. I just said that voting for him because you didn't like his voting style was a shitty thing to do and I wasn't going to pile on to that.

No, but instead pile on the run started by a guy that then says "no, no, no, don't make me do it" and that he doesn't want a run on me.

[dubb93]

Yeah dubb, ntn would only be known good at the time to a wolf who could be trying to garner trust. Otherwise, why anchor yourself to somebody on day 1 like that?

I guess I could see that. I mean, it really isn't much but it atleast is something.

[Telle]

Both votes she made were to protect an unknown entity to most people.

Not joining a pile-on on freaking Day 1 is suspicious? I'd think the opposite would be true.

[PurdueBrad]

Not joining a pile-on on freaking Day 1 is suspicious? I'd think the opposite would be true.

Note to self: piling on day 2, even when the run-starter doesn't seem to believe it, is okay.

[PurdueBrad]

Alan, I think I may have definitely been snippy that time.

[EagleFan]

I don't have a major role but I have a fun role. I don't know what I saw and it may have been a BG block but I only know I saw two people talking to each other last night. I know who one of them was but I have no idea if he was a wolf or villager.

[Telle]

No, but instead pile on the run started by a guy that then says "no, no, no, don't make me do it" and that he doesn't want a run on me.

We need to figure out what's up with the Lathum vote and unknown info on you. The easiest way to do that is to lynch you. Sorry if it comes up that you're a villager, but I don't like the idea of just leaving this dangling out there.

[PurdueBrad]

EF, if I have to vote for you in self-defense, I am sorry.

[dubb93]

I think anyone voting PB at this point jumps out at me. Lathum is at worst under the influence of a wolf. At best he is completely insane as his case against PB was awful and all over the place. Could prehaps be one of the worst cases I've ever seen presented that actually gained ground like this. I mean, he implyed he wanted to vote elsewhere and would not persue PB as a lynch target.

[dubb93]

Well, he didn't imply he wouldn't persue PB as a lynch target, he came right out and said it.

[Telle]

And at this point anyone on here that's not voting for PB or EF is throwing away a vote since the votes on me aren't going to catch up in 3 minutes.

[PurdueBrad]

Telle, on top of it, I'm grasping at straws as a good guy and I've laid out my read on several people: Hoops, you, and Martin D. So I'm trying to present some other target, nothing meant personally, honestly.

[PurdueBrad]

I also still think the willingness to run on me today means I had something right yesterday (or worst case, that EF is a wolf and they're protecting him).

[PurdueBrad]

Damn, I have to do this don't I?

[PurdueBrad]

EF, sorry.

unvote Telle

vote EF

[PurdueBrad]

Honestly the worst feeling self-defense vote I've had to make since he can't even vote.

[Poli]

I don't have a major role but I have a fun role. I don't know what I saw and it may have been a BG block but I only know I saw two people talking to each other last night. I know who one of them was but I have no idea if he was a wolf or villager.
Did you just role reveal?

[Poli]

UNVOTE TELLE

VOTE EF

[EagleFan]

Did you just role reveal?

Not really

[Poli]

I don't recall seeing something like that in the rules.

[EagleFan]

We know a lot about someone in here!!!!

[Danny]

Deadline

[PurdueBrad]

Not really

EF, I am sorry. I'll never bitch about your day 1 votes ever again.

[Barkeep49]

And at this point anyone on here that's not voting for PB or EF is throwing away a vote since the votes on me aren't going to catch up in 3 minutes.
I'm not throwing away a vote by voting on you. I'm saying that I don't buy either EF or PB being bad. And being on record as doing so. That record could certainly haunt me later. But the record is there.

[EagleFan]

Who shall it be?

[Danny]

Final Results

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)
9 - EagleFan - Alan T (951), Autumn (969), DaddyTorgo (971), dubb (1014), MartinD (1112), PackerFanatic (1123), Passacaglia (1157), PurdueBrad, Poli
1 - hoopsguy - saldana (1194)
2 - Telle - claphamsa (1285), Barkeep (1291)

[Poli]

Eagle, if you're good, please tell us what you know before you have to go. Have a heart.

[Poli]

Dude. If he's good, I totally screwed up.

[Telle]

Dude. If he's good, I totally screwed up.

He was already up by one when you moved your vote.

[Danny]

Today, PurdueBrad and EagleFan are singled out as no longer needing therapy! Perhaps even crazies surrounded by other crazies seem normal. After much deliberation, it is decided that EagleFan will be the one to go. As he begins to leave EagleFan tries to grab a knife and take someone with him, but alas he is stopped by the therapist and escorted away. As he is carried away, he drops a notebook with a lot of information scribbled on it. EagleFan is the Evil Information Collector!

The Evil Information Collector- You are a needie! Each night you will have a talk with the therapist who will randomly reveal an unlisted role without realizing it. You will not learn who has that role. Because you are evil, you also plan on using this info for your own selfish purposes. After learning a role, you may use your deception to try and trick one player into revealing their role to you by talking to that player at night to see if they are a role that you are looking for.

Now you all know for sure there are those that are out to get you, but was EF alone? Are they still here and how many are there?

Night deadline is at 1am eastern

[Telle]

Well that was a good outcome. But we still know nothing about why Lathum voted for PB.

[Poli]

Holy cow!!!

[Poli]

Woot woot!

[PurdueBrad]

THANK FUCKING GOD!

[PurdueBrad]

I don't feel guilty at all now!

HAPPY, HAPPY, JOY, JOY!

[PurdueBrad]

Poli, will you marry me?

[PurdueBrad]

I'll even buy you pizza!

[Barkeep49]

Let's play how many times Barkeep can be wrong.

[Poli]

Poli, will you marry me?
Dood. No way. You're already married. Plus, I like my money.

[Poli]

I'll even buy you pizza!
Wait. Seriously?

[Danny]

I'm off until night deadline now

[DaddyTorgo]

AWESOME!!!

Nice read by those of us that put the pieces together early (Autumn, myself, and who was the 3rd?)

Now what did we say we thought that meant about Lathum/PB?

[PurdueBrad]

Hey, thought about this on lunch duty. This does NOT mean that Lathum is in on it. We had 3 people up yesterday and lynched one. That means that either EF or I would be up today. By criticizing EF, the wolves remove him from the conversation by getting him some cred (see how arrested people were treated last game), that leaves me with the most heat. They got a bonus by getting Lathum to go after me. But WHY me.

A- I hit on something at some point yesterday that is a wolf

B- EF is a wolf and they're trying to shift it

:lol:

[Danny]

Also, I may be running night 2 later than normal tonight, so don't wait up for the results :).

[PurdueBrad]

Ahhhh, deep breath, sorry. Okay, that does give us good voting breakdown between the two days now though.

And I want Lathum to talk some, if he can.

[Autumn]

Incredibly awesome. Although I was only more sure as the day wore on.

I think Lathum might be able to tell us more later, let's wait and see on that.

I have several targets looking back at people really determined to get us off of EagleFan though.

[Autumn]

We had Eaglefan on the ropes for much of the day, so I Think we'll get some good info looking back at the day. Knowing for sure whether PurdueBrad is good would lock in some really key information.

I'm glad they weren't able to sway the vote enough.

[The Jackal]

Excellent.

[The Jackal]

Lathum made it seem like we'd know something more about him by tomorrow, let's hope its true.

[The Jackal]

See CR, I told you it was a reasonable wolf play.

[dubb93]

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)

Really? You guys saw logic in what Lathum was saying. I know I voted with him early, but when it became obvious he was batshit crazy I moved my vote away. Why did you guys stay on PB?

[Telle]

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)

Really? You guys saw logic in what Lathum was saying. I know I voted with him early, but when it became obvious he was batshit crazy I moved my vote away. Why did you guys stay on PB?

Because the simplest answer was that either Lathum was right for voting for PB because he thought he was a wolf or Lathum was the wolf. And easiest way to figure that out is by lynching one of them.

[Abe Sargent]

YAYAYAYAYAYYAY

[Autumn]

Can we get the voting history from Day 1 reposted up here? I keep going back to look for it and getting lost. I forget who posted it.

[claphamsa]

oh my!
:)

[Autumn]

OK, I've been working wth this stupid vote thing from yesterday on and off all afternoon and I think I've got it right now. Not sure how much it is going to factor into decisions today, but if so then here it is:

205 - Poli votes Lathum (1-0)
210 - Lathum votes Poli (1-1)
240 - Poli unvotes Lathum (1-0)
242 - Lathum unvotes Poli (0-0)
244 - Dubb votes Saldana (1-0)
251 - EF votes PB (1-1)
252 - Poli votes Abe (1-1-1) Saldana/PB/Abe
253 - Lerriuqs votes Pass (1-1-1-1) Saldana/PB/Abe/Pass
272 - PB votes Hoops (1-1-1-1-1) Saldana/PB/Abe/Pass/Hoops
273 - PB unvotes Hoops (1-1-1-1) Saldana/PB/Abe/Pass
284 - Pass votes Lerriuqs (1-1-1-1-1) Saldana/PB/Abe/Pass/Lerriuqs
304 - Saldana votes Dubb (1-1-1-1-1-1) Saldana/PB/Abe/Pass/Lerriuqs/Dubb
323 - EF unvotes PB, votes Hoops (1-1-1-1-1-1) Saldana/Abe/Pass/Lerriuqs/Dubb/Hoops
326 - Lathum votes Abe (2-1-1-1-1-1) Abe over Saldana/Pass/Lerriuqs/Dubb/Hoops
328 - Hoops votes EF (2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe over Saldana/Pass/Lerriuqs/Dubb/Hoops/EF
329 - Jackal votes PB (2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe over Saldana/Pass/Lerriuqs/Dubb/Hoops/EF/PB
333 - PF votes Lerriuqs (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/Lerriuqs over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/Hoops/EF/PB
335 - Clap votes PF (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/Lerriuqs over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/Hoops/EF/PB/PF
341 - Pass unvotes Lerriuqs, votes Hoops (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/Hoops over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/EF/PB/Lerriuqs/PF
343 - PB votes EF (2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/Hoops/EF over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PB/Lerriuqs/PF
347 - Pass unvotes Hoops (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/EF over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PB/Lerriuqs/PF/Hoops
357 - PF unvotes Lerriuqs (2-2-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/EF over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PB/PF/Hoops
370 - Pass votes for NTN (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/EF over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PB/Hoops/PF/NTN
372 - EF unvotes Hoops, votes PB (2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/EF/PB over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PF/NTN
374 - PF votes NTN (2-2-2-2-1-1-1-1) Abe/EF/PB/NTN over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PF
381 - PF unvotes PB, votes Lathum (2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Abe/EF/NTN over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PF/PB/Lathum
396 - Lathum unvotes Abe, votes EF (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) EF over NTN over Saldana/Pass/Dubb/PF/PB/Lathum/Abe
416 - Dubb unvotes Saldana, votes EF (4-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) EF over NTN over Pass/Dubb/PF/PB/Lathum/Abe
420 - BK votes NTN (4-3-1-1-1-1-1-1) EF over NTN over Pass/Dubb/PF/PB/Lathum/Abe
425 - Abe votes NTN (4-4-1-1-1-1-1-1) EF/NTN over Pass/Dubb/PF/PB/Lathum/Abe
443 - Pass unvotes NTN, votes No Lynch (4-3-1-1-1-1-1-1) EF over NTN over Pass/Dubb/PF/PB/Lathum/Abe
452 - EF unvotes Lathum, votes PB (4-3-2-1-1-1-1) EF over NTN over PB over Pass/Dubb/PF/Abe
455 - Autumn votes PB (4-3-3-1-1-1-1) EF over NTN/PB over Pass/Dubb/PF/Abe
457 - Telle votes Abe (4-3-3-2-1-1-1) EF over NTN/PB over Abe over Pass/Dubb/PF
530 - NTN votes PF (4-3-3-2-2-1-1) EF over NTN/PB over Abe/PF over Pass/Dubb
532 - Pass votes NTN (4-4-3-2-2-1-1) EF/NTN over PB over Abe/PF over Pass/Dubb
536 - PB unvotes EF, votes NTN (5-3-3-2-2-1-1) NTN over PB/EF over Abe/PF over Pass/Dubb
577 - Telle unvotes Abe, votes PB (5-4-3-2-1-1-1) NTN over PB over EF over PF over Pass/Dubb/Abe
581 - PB unvotes NTN, votes Telle (4-4-3-2-1-1-1-1) PB/NTN over EF over PF over Pass/Dubb/Abe/Telle
595 - MartinD votes PB (5-4-3-2-1-1-1-1) PB over NTN over EF over over PF over Pass/Dubb/Abe/Telle
603 - NTN unvotes PF, votes PB (6-4-3-1-1-1-1-1) PB over NTN over EF over Pass/Dubb/Abe/Telle/PF
604 - Autumn unvotes PB, votes Telle (5-4-3-2-1-1-1-1) PB over NTN over EF over Telle over Pass/Dubb/Abe/PF
605 - Chief votes EF (5-4-4-2-1-1-1-1) PB over NTN/EF over Telle over Pass/Dubb/Abe/PF
668 - Poli unvotes Abe, votes Telle (5-4-4-3-1-1-1) PB over NTN/EF over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
669 - PB unvotes Telle, votes NTN (5-5-4-2-1-1-1) PB/NTN over EF over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
679 - PB unvotes NTN, votes Telle (5-4-4-3-1-1-1) PB over EF/NTN over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
699 - Alan votes NTN (5-5-4-3-1-1-1) PB/NTN over EF over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
701 - NTN unvotes PB, votes Telle (5-4-4-4-1-1-1) NTN over EF/PB/Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
707 - NTN unvotes Telle, votes EF (5-5-4-3-1-1-1) NTN/EF over PB over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
711 - PB unvotes Telle, votes NTN (6-5-4-2-1-1-1) NTN over EF over PB over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF
713 - EF unvotes PB, votes NTN (7-5-3-2-1-1-1) NTN over EF over PB over Telle over Pass/Dubb/PF

Found it, thanks a ton hoopsguy, this is better than my notes.

[PurdueBrad]

I'll count EF's vote, though NTN was the leading vote getter anyway.

1 - Passacaglia - Lerriuqs (253)
1 - dubb - saldana (304)
5 - EagleFan - hoopsguy (328), Lathum (396), dubb (416), Chief Rum (605), NTNDeacon (707)
3 - PurdueBrad - The Jackel (329), Telle (575), Martin D (595)
1 - PackerFanatic - claphasma (335)
7- ntndeacon - PackerFanatic (374), Barkeep (420), Abe (425), Pass (532), Alan T (699), PurdueBrad (711), EagneFan (713)
2 - Telle - Autumn (604), Poli (668)

A lot to look at here I think

[PurdueBrad]

Telle and Jackal were on me back-to-back days.

Hoopsguy early on EF, Lathum followed
Wouldn't be surprised to see Hoops put a first vote on another wolf

Autumn and Poli (him in particular) seemed to listen to me both days.

[PurdueBrad]

And yes, everything above assumes that I'm good, I know.

[Autumn]

A couple highlights. Lathum and Dubb put Eaglefan in danger early in Day 1 voting, putting him ahead in the vote. Chief put him back in the mix towards the end of the voting. Purdue and Eaglefan himself got him out of danger at the end and pushed NTN over the top. Pass and PB put NTN ahead of EF in the middle of the voting.

[PurdueBrad]

Purdue and Eaglefan himself got him out of danger at the end and pushed NTN over the top.

I was thinking about this. Did the wolves, like I sort of said earlier, push to get ntn out because they thought it would be easier to generate a run on me once they criticized EF?

[PurdueBrad]

Damn, hit enter too soon. And then was Lathum's craziness a bonus then OR did they orchestrate that as well?

[Autumn]

Also of note, we can assume we have (had) at least five Needies in the game, since EagleFan's role was not one of the listed roles.

[claphamsa]

didnt guess that one.....

[claphamsa]

but yay anyways

[EagleFan]

Good game all. Go Needies!!! :D

For the record. The bad day was not a play, I actually had about the worst day at work today and it began as described.

[Autumn]

Glad we could make it worse ;-) Well, you know what i mean.

[Lathum]

Lathum is beyond confusing. At this point he has voted, said his role points to PB being a wolf




So you are saying you know PB is bad due to your role? You aren't going on a gut feeling?

no, I'm not saying that

Dubb, you are seriously annoying me.

You got pissed off and accused Hoops of putting words in your mouth, explain to me how this doesn't make you a hypocrite?

I never once said my role points to PB being a wolf and actually speceficaly went out of my way to say it didn't.

[PurdueBrad]

Lathum, are you able to discuss much of what did happen or not so much?

[EagleFan]

Glad we could make it worse ;-) Well, you know what i mean.

Didn't make it worse. 'Tis just a game and I actually enjoyed trying to think of what to say to help get me out of it.

[The Jackal]

PB - I don't know if I'll be voting for you again, but if you had been lynched today and turned up bad and I wasn't on you that was going to look bad for me, so it was an educated vote in that regard. I tend to think you're probably good, fwiw.

[Lathum]

Lathum, are you able to discuss much of what did happen or not so much?

I can try.

I have an ability that had a certain trigger that needed to be met. Now I'm not saying voting for you was that trigger and to be honest I wanted to go a different way today but Danny wouldn't let me. Things got a little crazier then I expected but the outcome was obviously not only a great one for the village but for me as well.

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks, much appreciated Lathum.

[Poli]

I definitely like Lathum more now. If he has a role that's not listed, then I'm assuming he's on our side. As Autumn pointed out, we have (had) at least 5 wolves among us. I seriously doubt we had 6.

[Lathum]

dola- If people want to question me I will do my best to answer them.

I'm not sure who I will vote for tomorrow, Dubb's play obviously is obviously irksom to me but his voting record doesn't point to him a s a wolf.

[Chief Rum]

Today, PurdueBrad and EagleFan are singled out as no longer needing therapy! Perhaps even crazies surrounded by other crazies seem normal. After much deliberation, it is decided that EagleFan will be the one to go. As he begins to leave EagleFan tries to grab a knife and take someone with him, but alas he is stopped by the therapist and escorted away. As he is carried away, he drops a notebook with a lot of information scribbled on it. EagleFan is the Evil Information Collector!

The Evil Information Collector- You are a needie! Each night you will have a talk with the therapist who will randomly reveal an unlisted role without realizing it. You will not learn who has that role. Because you are evil, you also plan on using this info for your own selfish purposes. After learning a role, you may use your deception to try and trick one player into revealing their role to you by talking to that player at night to see if they are a role that you are looking for.

Now you all know for sure there are those that are out to get you, but was EF alone? Are they still here and how many are there?

Night deadline is at 1am eastern

Wow, don't I look like a dumbass?

Way to go, guys. I'll again argue the logic was correct--I just didn't think the wolves would make such a balls out move like that. I should have given them more credit.

Have to look at the PB and Telle votes now, I would guess.

[PurdueBrad]

I wonder if we hadn't hit Lathum's trigger if he would've been punished in some way or killed as well, by the statement, "but for me as well" at the end of that post.

[Autumn]

Interesting.

[Lathum]

I can try.

I have an ability that had a certain trigger that needed to be met. Now I'm not saying voting for you was that trigger and to be honest I wanted to go a different way today but Danny wouldn't let me. Things got a little crazier then I expected but the outcome was obviously not only a great one for the village but for me as well.

I worded that poorly.

When I say go a different way I meant in regards to my role, not my vote. My vote was 100% my choice.

[Telle]

I can try.

I have an ability that had a certain trigger that needed to be met. Now I'm not saying voting for you was that trigger and to be honest I wanted to go a different way today but Danny wouldn't let me. Things got a little crazier then I expected but the outcome was obviously not only a great one for the village but for me as well.

Were you not able to say this much earlier? Because this information would have been REALLY helpful.

[Alan T]

AWESOME!!!

Nice read by those of us that put the pieces together early (Autumn, myself, and who was the 3rd?)

Now what did we say we thought that meant about Lathum/PB?


This post bothers me. Not sure why.

Anyhow, I have a feeling that I'm on the very short list for night kill targets tonight. So the only reason I'll give my strategy during a night phase is due to that.

The main reason I pushed an EF lynch today was because of Telle's behavior in regards to EF and in regards to PB. I don't really have the energy right now to go back over all of my points today on why this was the only conclusion that made sense to me when all things were considered (plus I am late to run my BBCF sim as well).

I think there were several people who were overly vocal about not voting PB today who were likely just very overly wrong about their reasoning. So I'm not necessarily thinking everyone who voted for PB is bad here.

If I am alive tomorrow, barring seer reveal somewhere else, Telle is likely my target. After that it gets a little fuzzier for me.. I can buy what people are saying about Hoopsguy, and I think he should be considered a valuable target to scan soon perhaps, but I'm not sold on him being bad just yet because I always feel that way about him it seems.

[Autumn]

Wow, don't I look like a dumbass?

Way to go, guys. I'll again argue the logic was correct--I just didn't think the wolves would make such a balls out move like that. I should have given them more credit.

Have to look at the PB and Telle votes now, I would guess.

I think you gave them too much credit, Chief. They didn't expect us to catch them at it but we did.

[Chief Rum]

See CR, I told you it was a reasonable wolf play.

Yes, you did. Doesn't mean it was reasonable, though. That was a dumb play by the wolves.

Still, I'm not going to quibble about us getting a wolf.

[Lathum]

I wonder if we hadn't hit Lathum's trigger if he would've been punished in some way or killed as well, by the statement, "but for me as well" at the end of that post.

it would have been bad for me.

Was a high risk-high reward play

[Poli]

Yes, you did. Doesn't mean it was reasonable, though. That was a dumb play by the wolves.

Still, I'm not going to quibble about us getting a wolf.
Quibble. Did I use that word earlier in my q posting? I hope so!

[The Jackal]

Yes, you did. Doesn't mean it was reasonable, though. That was a dumb play by the wolves.

Still, I'm not going to quibble about us getting a wolf.

I don't know that it was dumb. I just think the timing of it was off because of the arrest mechanism in Abe's game - there was a lot of discussion (both between us wolves) and the village in that game about whether or not the wolves would target their own person. I think it was fresh in everyone's head.

[Chief Rum]

I think you gave them too much credit, Chief. They didn't expect us to catch them at it but we did.

Well, I would argue it was a second level approach. I would say actually the wolves maybe just flat underestimated the village. I went third level, lol, and screwed up. But glad others saw through that and got the job done.

The great news is this not only provides us with tons of info in Day Two, but also on Day One. We have two close votes involving a wolf to digest.

[Chief Rum]

Quibble. Did I use that word earlier in my q posting? I hope so!

Your influence is undeniable. ;)

[Chief Rum]

I don't know that it was dumb. I just think the timing of it was off because of the arrest mechanism in Abe's game - there was a lot of discussion (both between us wolves) and the village in that game about whether or not the wolves would target their own person. I think it was fresh in everyone's head.

Hmm, I could see that. I should have paid more attention in Abe's game, but I got really confused in that one.

[Lathum]

Were you not able to say this much earlier? Because this information would have been REALLY helpful.

I think it actually would have caused more problems. Things were pretty crazy already and I didn't want more confusion. Once it became evident I would be succesfull there was no need to say anything, especiallly since I liked where the lynch was headed.

I think PB may be a wolf based on how the vote went down today and yesterday.

[Poli]

I seriously doubt we're lucky enough to hit wolf/wolf.

[Chief Rum]

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)

Really? You guys saw logic in what Lathum was saying. I know I voted with him early, but when it became obvious he was batshit crazy I moved my vote away. Why did you guys stay on PB?

As I said at the time when a 3rd candidate was brought up, I didn't see a compelling reason to switch. I didn't know just what to make of the Lathum thing. PB got Day One votes, too. No one else really stood out a ton further than PB. Plus, I (wrongly) thought EF was innocent, and was concerned that if I moved from PB, it would seal EF's lynch by default.

[Lathum]

but don't you think looking at your reasoning then that maybe PB isn't a wolf? Why would the wolves be so obvious as to lynch one of the 3, make the other one unable to vote, and thus essentially point us right back at the 3rd? It's like...too easy.

If anything I might argue that EF is the wolf and that by silencing him the wolves are hoping to point the finger at PB. Not that I think this is necessarily true, but maybe it's as true as the idea that PB could be a wolf.

It just seems too "first level thinking" easy that PB is the wolf then. And knowing our crafty wolves they're probably at least on "2nd level" and misdirecting things.

This is where not being able to discuss roles makes things very difficult, because we have no way of group-analyzing Lathum's experience that he can't share with us.

In a way I think it might be an early indication of a limitation of this game that I don't like - because you're essentially forcing everyone to play as islands and stifling group-think and discussion.

this post elevates DT in my mind. He was the first one to float out the reasons why EF may be a wolf

[Poli]

Hoops moves up as well. Wasn't he the first one pinging EF yesterday?

[Lathum]

I seriously doubt we're lucky enough to hit wolf/wolf.

look at PB's day 1 voting record, it's not that great.

[Lathum]

Hoops moves up as well. Wasn't he the first one pinging EF yesterday?

He voted first on him yesterday, but IMO that doesn't really clear him.

[PurdueBrad]

I think PB may be a wolf based on how the vote went down today and yesterday.

If I have to go through this a third day in a row, I'm not going to bother fighting it.

[Autumn]

I'm going to continue to exam the possibility that PB is a Needie though. Some of his votes don't look great, and no reason to let one through our hands just because of statistics. Still, I'm going to wait for night deadline before I do too much vote thinking.

[Alan T]

this post elevates DT in my mind. He was the first one to float out the reasons why EF may be a wolf


I have the opposite view of this. Actually completely opposite. DT's posts are bothering me. He was more than happy to be the first person to jump on PB after you did last night and he only started talking about EF after myself and Autumn did. His vote was still on PB during that time. Then after the lynch today, DT made the post which I quoted earlier where he appeared to me to be taking credit for something that felt to me he was trying to slide into.

I'm not more convinced that DT is bad than Telle, she is still my target tomorrow, but I definitely am not extending my trust of today's EF's vote much further than Autumn right now until I have more time to review.

[The Jackal]

If I have to go through this a third day in a row, I'm not going to bother fighting it.

The only thing that'd make me think you are a wolf at this point is the fact that the wolves criticized one of their own since I know you like that plan. So Im looking elsewhere first.

[Autumn]

this post elevates DT in my mind. He was the first one to float out the reasons why EF may be a wolf

I hate to toot my own horn, but he's actually reiterating a point I had made several times before that.

But I agree. Still, I'd rather hold off on more analysis until day breaks.

[Chief Rum]

This post bothers me. Not sure why.

Anyhow, I have a feeling that I'm on the very short list for night kill targets tonight. So the only reason I'll give my strategy during a night phase is due to that.

The main reason I pushed an EF lynch today was because of Telle's behavior in regards to EF and in regards to PB. I don't really have the energy right now to go back over all of my points today on why this was the only conclusion that made sense to me when all things were considered (plus I am late to run my BBCF sim as well).

I think there were several people who were overly vocal about not voting PB today who were likely just very overly wrong about their reasoning. So I'm not necessarily thinking everyone who voted for PB is bad here.

If I am alive tomorrow, barring seer reveal somewhere else, Telle is likely my target. After that it gets a little fuzzier for me.. I can buy what people are saying about Hoopsguy, and I think he should be considered a valuable target to scan soon perhaps, but I'm not sold on him being bad just yet because I always feel that way about him it seems.

Thanks for reminding me about DT. His no vote on Day One and quick vote early today still makes me suspicious. But then he did switch his vote to EF early on, and didn't switch out.

If PB is indeed a villager, then he comes off better there. If PB is a wolf, I think DT will be the most deserving target for a vote.

I am interested to know who the seer scanned last night, and I hope they'll scan PB tonight. Not sure when they should come out, but at least when they do, we will have some more critical information with which to judge our votes.

[Autumn]

If I have to go through this a third day in a row, I'm not going to bother fighting it.

You spent all day today saying you weren't going to bother fighting it too, right?

[PurdueBrad]

The only thing that'd make me think you are a wolf at this point is the fact that the wolves criticized one of their own since I know you like that plan. So Im looking elsewhere first.

I can't deny that.

Okay, since it looks like not even this has me at all cleared, I beg that everyone in the game focus all your energies and powers on me tonight, good, bad, independent win conditions, sexy (especially sexy), whatever, scan me, probe me, search me, sniff me, strip me, hug me, love me, spoon me, whatever but damn, I promise that I am good.

[Poli]

He voted first on him yesterday, but IMO that doesn't really clear him.
Still, I can't deny it was a little uncanny of hoops to call him out like that. Luck or not, hoops inadvertently led us to our first wolf.

[Poli]

I hate to toot my own horn, but he's actually reiterating a point I had made several times before that.

But I agree. Still, I'd rather hold off on more analysis until day breaks.
Good point.

[The Jackal]

You aren't cleared PB but you're in much better shape especially if Lathum backs off and we figure out what the hell he's up to.

[Poli]

Off for some WoW.

[The Jackal]

Off for some WoW.

Server?

[Lathum]

PB, you have to admit your late vote on NTN day 1 looks pretty bad considering EF came up wolf

[The Jackal]

PB, you have to admit your late vote on NTN day 1 looks pretty bad considering EF came up wolf

that's a fair point

[PurdueBrad]

PB, you have to admit your late vote on NTN day 1 looks pretty bad considering EF came up wolf

Oh yeah, no doubt. I tried too hard not to use the usual grudges (hoops, EF) for votes and unfortunately that is my only defense. That and, as you guys have heard, I keyed in on an either existent or non-existent ntn-Telle dynamic.

[Lathum]

Still, I can't deny it was a little uncanny of hoops to call him out like that. Luck or not, hoops inadvertently led us to our first wolf.

Sorry but I just don't see what you mean.

Hoops voted early on EF day 1 and was stuck there and then today he voted early on PB and stayed there.

[Autumn]

I can't deny that.

Okay, since it looks like not even this has me at all cleared, I beg that everyone in the game focus all your energies and powers on me tonight, good, bad, independent win conditions, sexy (especially sexy), whatever, scan me, probe me, search me, sniff me, strip me, hug me, love me, spoon me, whatever but damn, I promise that I am good.

Where's that 350 pound masseuse?

[The Jackal]

Where's that 350 pound masseuse?

She's got quite the appetite, she's all yours PB.

[DaddyTorgo]

I have the opposite view of this. Actually completely opposite. DT's posts are bothering me. He was more than happy to be the first person to jump on PB after you did last night and he only started talking about EF after myself and Autumn did. His vote was still on PB during that time. Then after the lynch today, DT made the post which I quoted earlier where he appeared to me to be taking credit for something that felt to me he was trying to slide into.

I'm not more convinced that DT is bad than Telle, she is still my target tomorrow, but I definitely am not extending my trust of today's EF's vote much further than Autumn right now until I have more time to review.

you should keep in mind that you're always suspicious of me though :banghead:

i could reveal as the seer and you would still probably claim that i was bad

I left my vote on PB while discussing EF? Yeah, cuz we were like...at least 6 hours away from deadline (i forget what time it was exactly). Moving my vote willy nilly at that point does nothing, particularly because idk if we know what the tiebreaker might be.

For all we know, lathum's ability may have been triggered by getting enough of us to follow him on a vote, so maybe there was nothing wrong with my vote? Not like it got a roled villager lynched or anything. As a matter of fact, my eventual vote (quite early) helped us lynch a wolf.

And I would argue that Autumn and I and you to some extent, started discussing EF as a potential wolf at about the same time. I'm not about to go back and look at timestamps to verify that, but that is the way that it "felt" to me.

[Lathum]

So if I had to guess right now who are wolves I would say PB, Hoops and Poli. The way Poli is saying hoops is cleared is confusing me.

I'm only saying this in case I befall some horrible fate.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops moves up as well. Wasn't he the first one pinging EF yesterday?

He voted first on him yesterday, but IMO that doesn't really clear him.

I also very publicly declared that EF should be scanned yesterday (during the night action period when very few people were posting) and that I wanted an NTN/EF run-off yesterday.

But I was on the wrong horse today, so I understand that I'm going to draw some suspicion. I'm fine with that; will be happy to talk further about my play tomorrow assuming I'm around.

[The Jackal]

i could reveal as the seer and you would still probably claim that i was bad

When has that ever happened! :D

[hoopsguy]

By the way, I hope that the bodyguard has paid attention to the thread today. I think that his potential targets to guard should be a pretty small list.

[hoopsguy]

As Chief has noted, we should have some really good vote analysis. I'm going to start on that in the next couple of minutes. My thought is that it is good to publish this now so that the seer has an option to consider it for his selection.

Do others agree with this, or is there concern that posting the vote tree - and the analysis - helps the wolves with target selection?

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't see how it can help them more than it will help us (the villagers)

[Lathum]

I'm cool with it

[PurdueBrad]

People I trust: Poli, Autumn, Lathum

People I don't: Telle, Hoops, The Jackal

Middle-ground: The rest of you

[hoopsguy]

OK, going to hit the showers now then will start working on it. Day 1 is already posted in case others want to take a shot and I had Day 2 already done up until I left for soccer. So I should be able to get working on it in the next hour, for sure.

[PurdueBrad]

So if I had to guess right now who are wolves I would say PB

:banghead:

[Lathum]

So if I had to guess right now who are wolves I would say PB, Hoops and Poli. The way Poli is saying hoops is cleared is confusing me.

I'm only saying this in case I befall some horrible fate.

actualy, Poli's late vote on EF looks pretty good

[Poli]

Server?
Not sure. Winterhoof? Does that make sense? That's the world I'm in.

[Poli]

I'm still kind of new to that game.

[The Jackal]

Not sure. Winterhoof? Does that make sense? That's the world I'm in.

Yeah. Anetheron here.

[The Jackal]

I'm still kind of new to that game.

Me too, I haven't played all that much.

[Lathum]

Lightinghoof and Feathermoon

[Alan T]

you should keep in mind that you're always suspicious of me though :banghead:

i could reveal as the seer and you would still probably claim that i was bad

I left my vote on PB while discussing EF? Yeah, cuz we were like...at least 6 hours away from deadline (i forget what time it was exactly). Moving my vote willy nilly at that point does nothing, particularly because idk if we know what the tiebreaker might be.

For all we know, lathum's ability may have been triggered by getting enough of us to follow him on a vote, so maybe there was nothing wrong with my vote? Not like it got a roled villager lynched or anything. As a matter of fact, my eventual vote (quite early) helped us lynch a wolf.

And I would argue that Autumn and I and you to some extent, started discussing EF as a potential wolf at about the same time. I'm not about to go back and look at timestamps to verify that, but that is the way that it "felt" to me.


I went back through and looked. I think even though it was obvious that I was questioning Telle and obviously was not buying what she said, I didn't actually mention Eaglefan until I voted for him and explained that it felt to me that EF and Telle were in cahoots on day 1 and not Telle protecting ntn as some others claimed. Your posts were shortly after that, so I'll accept that you were near the start. I'm going to leave it at that as for me to go further in what my recap was I think would give too much of a roadmap for wolves to target tonight. It can be a conversation for tomorrow if people really want it.

Like I said before, my focus tomorrow is likely on Telle. your posts wern't sitting well with me likely because I had made up my mind about Eaglefan before you had started posting about him (and I often get tunnelvision on things). So this probably isn't really a line of discussion that is going to be too fruitful to continue really.

[Autumn]

actualy, Poli's late vote on EF looks pretty good

It does. You could make a case for it being a trust gainer after the issue was decided. But there was some chance for vote movement still, so it seems a chancy move.

I want to look back at the vote with the possibility of a wolf/wolf showdown though and see what that suggests.

[PurdueBrad]

People I trust: Poli, Autumn, Lathum, Alan T

People I don't: Telle, Hoops, The Jackal

Middle-ground: The rest of you

Sorry, forgot Alan. Fixed.

[dubb93]

Altar of Storms, although I don't play anymore. They broked my class.

[Alan T]

People I trust: Poli, Autumn, Lathum


I'm not quite on the same boat as you about Lathum yet. I'll be nice and say that his perspective of the first two days and what they mean are about as completely opposite of mine as can be imagined. Part of me still wonders if he was completely honest with us, but in the end this isn't really a road I am ready to head down just yet.

[Lathum]

I'm not quite on the same boat as you about Lathum yet. I'll be nice and say that his perspective of the first two days and what they mean are about as completely opposite of mine as can be imagined. Part of me still wonders if he was completely honest with us, but in the end this isn't really a road I am ready to head down just yet.

lol, you really are unbelievable sometimes

[Alan T]

It does. You could make a case for it being a trust gainer after the issue was decided. But there was some chance for vote movement still, so it seems a chancy move.

I want to look back at the vote with the possibility of a wolf/wolf showdown though and see what that suggests.

I still don't believe that PB is bad right now, but this exercise could likely be fairly easy in attempting to see who wanted a third party instead of PB or EF on day 1 (ntn votes) plus a third party instead of the two today (Telle or Hoops vots). But more than just the votes, who actively pursued third options when it was just them on the block.

When I looked at this early this morning when I was trying to reconvince myself if I felt PB was still likely good, I noticed that the day 1 run off was EF + ntn at first, and ntn was slightly leading. Ntn showed up in the thread (there were actual posts stating he was there then), and suddenly votes started moving to a third party at that point (ended up being PB after a few other options were tossed about). Right now the strongest feeling i have are the people who were trying to keep the vote off of EF when ntn showed up (and it became likely some ntn voters might bail anyways now he was there).

[Alan T]

lol, you really are unbelievable sometimes

I don't get what you mean. You have said tonight that you feel PB is still bad (which I don't). You have listed several people as your top targets such as Poli who isn't anywhere near my untrust list just yet, and you completely ignore the person who seems the most untrusted to me (Telle).

Like I said, you and I are seeing things from completely opposite perspectives right now. It makes me wonder why that is. That is all I said.

[dubb93]

I'm not quite on the same boat as you about Lathum yet. I'll be nice and say that his perspective of the first two days and what they mean are about as completely opposite of mine as can be imagined. Part of me still wonders if he was completely honest with us, but in the end this isn't really a road I am ready to head down just yet.

Atleast it can be said Lathum has his own agenda. Lathum do you have your own victory conditions? I'm still not getting why you had to vote PB today and that even though you voted PB an EF lynch was good for you as well.

but the outcome was obviously not only a great one for the village but for me as well.

I'm not sure what to make of the above quote.

[The Jackal]

Altar of Storms, although I don't play anymore. They broked my class.

Which?

[Autumn]

I would like us to also keep in our minds the presence of those with different win conditions than us and the Needies. The Jackal is one, who knows how many more there are or how that could play out in voting or other actions.

[Passacaglia]

7 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), Telle (1020), Abe (1045), The Jackal (1050), Lerriuqs (1137), Chief Rum (1166)

Really? You guys saw logic in what Lathum was saying. I know I voted with him early, but when it became obvious he was batshit crazy I moved my vote away. Why did you guys stay on PB?

I think you have to add DT and clap in there as honorable mentions.

By the way, I totally meant to 'accidentally' forget to unvote EF. :devil:

[Autumn]

dubb, we're on the same wavelength there.

[PurdueBrad]

So if I had to guess right now who are wolves I would say PB, Hoops and Poli. The way Poli is saying hoops is cleared is confusing me.

I'm only saying this in case I befall some horrible fate.

Lathum, please don't be offended if I'm wrong and these are your actual thoughts. With your discussion with Alan T and then this post, I'm wondering something really odd.

1- Are you allowed to post your real beliefs?

2- Do you have to post the opposite of what you really believe?

3- Have you ever played World of Warcraft?


See, number three tests his answer to #2.

[The Jackal]

Let me make it clear that my main win condition is winning with the group and that I won't do anything for any side-condition that jeopardises that. I'm not just a loner or anything.

[dubb93]

Which?

My mage. Spirit=gay

Anyone who was geared for the spirit buff/changes in general had to of been massively undergeared and near the bottom of their guilds damage meters prior to the patch.

[The Jackal]

Having said that, I hope whatever Lathum did/will be able to do has a positive impact for all of us, not just for him.

[hoopsguy]

Vote/unvote chart from Day 2:
790 - Lathum votes PB 1-0
810 - DT votes PB 2-0
822 - Hoops votes PB 3-0
823 - Clap votes PB 4-0
846 - Dubb votes PB 5-0
875 - Clap unvotes PB 4-0
951 - Alan votes EF 4-1 PB over EF
969 - Autumn votes EF 4-2 PB over EF
971 - DT unvotes PB votes EF 3-3 PB/EF
985 - BK votes Hoops 3-3-1 PB/EF over Hoops
1001 - Dubb unvotes PB 3-2-1 EF over PB over Hoops
1014 - Dubb votes EF 4-2-1 EF over PB over Hoops
1016 - Pass votes Hoops 4-2-2 EF over PB/Hoops
1017 - PB votes Hoops 4-3-2 EF over Hoops over PB
1020 - Telle votes PB 4-3-3 EF over Hoops/PB
1045 - Abe votes PB 4-4-3 EF/PB over Hoops
1047 - Jackal votes EF 5-4-3 EF over PB over Hoops
1050 - Jackal unvotes EF, votes PB 5-4-3 PB over EF over Hoops
1080 - Saldana votes EF 5-5-3 PB/EF over Hoops
1112 - MartinD votes EF 6-5-3 EF over PB over Hoops
1120 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes PB 6-6-2 EF/PB over Hoops
1123 - PF votes EF 7-6-2 EF over PB over Hoops
1137 - Lerriuqs votes PB 7-7-2 EF/PB over Hoops
1157 - Pass unvotes Hoops, votes EF 8-7-1 EF over PB over Hoops
1166 - Chief votes PB 8-8-1 EF/PB over Hoops
1169 - PB unvotes Hoops, votes EF 9-8 EF over PB
1194 - Saldana unvotes EF, votes Hoops 8-8-1 EF/PB over Hoops
1199 - Poli votes PB, votes 9-8-1 PB over EF over Hoops
1256 - INVALID - no unvote (Pass votes Telle), votes 9-8-1 PB over EF over Hoops
1258 - PB unvotes EF, votes Telle 9-7-1-1 PB over EF over Hoops/Telle
1261 - Poli unvotes PB, votes Telle 8-7-2-1 PB over EF over Telle over Hoops
1265 - BK unvotes PB, votes Hoops 7-7-2-2 EF/PB over Telle/Hoops
1285 - Clap votes Telle 7-7-3-2 EF/PB over Telle over Hoops
1291 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes Telle 7-7-4-1 EF/PB over Telle over Hoops
1315 - PB unvotes Telle, votes EF 8-7-3-1 EF over PB over Telle over Hoops
1318 - Poli unvotes Telle, votes EF 9-7-2-1 EF over PB over Telle over Hoops

[The Jackal]

My mage. Spirit=gay

Anyone who was geared for the spirit buff/changes in general had to of been massively undergeared and near the bottom of their guilds damage meters prior to the patch.

Sucks. My best is a priest and she's only 72 so I haven't even gotten to experience high level armor/build concerns.

[dubb93]

Sucks. My best is a priest and she's only 72 so I haven't even gotten to experience high level armor/build concerns.

Yea, I guess my major issue was I spent the time getting T 7.5, well most of it, the robes were teh suck, and all the other best raid epic gear I could only to have blizz re-build my class to the point where I would have been forced to re-gear just to get into ulduar. Fuck that. Blizz needs to just learn to leave some things alone sometimes. Classes shouldn't have their mechanics radically redesigned by a patch. That is what expansions are for. Slight tweaks are what patches are for.

Something like spirit which was avoided like the plague by all high level raiding mages with a brain all of a sudden becomes a HUGE mechanic to the class while other passive buffs get nerfed in an effort to force us to re-gear and stack spirit....that is a radical mechanic redesign.

[Lathum]

I have no seperate win condition, I win with the village and no onger have my own agenda, I did everything I needed to do today and we got a wolf to boot, hence a good day for me and the village

[Lathum]

Having said that, I hope whatever Lathum did/will be able to do has a positive impact for all of us, not just for him.

it will

[The Jackal]

Well that sort've bothers me that we're not going to learn nothing about that.

[Lathum]

Lathum, please don't be offended if I'm wrong and these are your actual thoughts. With your discussion with Alan T and then this post, I'm wondering something really odd.

1- Are you allowed to post your real beliefs?

2- Do you have to post the opposite of what you really believe?

3- Have you ever played World of Warcraft?


See, number three tests his answer to #2.

yes

no

yes

[The Jackal]

Hrm, I tricked myself into a double negative. I meant we're not going to learn anything about that.

If you say it will, hopefully it will.

[Passacaglia]

I have no seperate win condition, I win with the village and no onger have my own agenda, I did everything I needed to do today and we got a wolf to boot, hence a good day for me and the village

If you have no separate win condition, why did you need to do things?

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks Lathum, guess I'm wrong and you actually do think I'm a wolf. That's okay though, I trust you still.

[Autumn]

BK, Pass and PB seem interested in driving third candidates today, looking at things that way.

[Lathum]

If you have no separate win condition, why did you need to do things?

I said earlier I needed to trigger something for my role.

I hope I havent said to much

[hoopsguy]

EagleFan votes, Day 1:
251 - votes PB
323 - unvotes PB, votes Hoops
372 - unvotes Hoops, votes PB
381 - unvotes PB, votes Lathum (note - I initially had this down incorrectly on my spreadsheet posted earlier, showed PB with vote change and not EF)
452 - unvotes Lathum, votes PB (at this point EF had 4 votes, NTN 3, this was 2nd vote on PB)
713 - unvotes PB, votes NTN (sealed vote on NTN right at deadline, 7-5)

[PurdueBrad]

Lathum, looking back, did something happen just prior to your "no, no, no" post that was your final trigger? Or was it more than a half hour earlier or later?

[Poli]

I think you have to add DT and clap in there as honorable mentions.

By the way, I totally meant to 'accidentally' forget to unvote EF. :devil:
I guess that's where I started miscounting then. Didn't EF "forget" some sort of formatting and it still count?

[Poli]

BK, Pass and PB seem interested in driving third candidates today, looking at things that way.
I was as well. I still have to think about Telle, to be honest.

[Passacaglia]

I guess that's where I started miscounting then. Didn't EF "forget" some sort of formatting and it still count?

EF's thing was Day 1. And I was kidding -- I actually didn't really mean to 'forget'.

[Poli]

Well, there I was giving you credit. :)

[Lathum]

Lathum, looking back, did something happen just prior to your "no, no, no" post that was your final trigger? Or was it more than a half hour earlier or later?

that post had nothing to do with it

[PurdueBrad]

Well, I'm getting ready to leave for the night and I'm not done trying to figure out Lathum's play today (unless his win condition is for some reason to get me lynched, which Danny would probably do to me).

You've seen my trust and distrust list and I hope you are all using your myriad of powers on me tonight.

[hoopsguy]

What I consider important Day 1 votes:

396 - Lathum unvotes Abe, votes EF (first person to 3 votes on day, vote did not move off EF after this)
416 - Dubb unvotes Saldana, votes EF (pushes EF up to 4 votes, all of a sudden wolves not looking so good, 2 vote lead over NTN. Vote never moves after this)
420 - BK votes NTN (closes gap to 1, vote never moves)
425 - Abe votes NTN (ties it, vote never moves)
443 - Pass unvotes NTN, votes No Lynch (no real comment, see later post)
455 - Autumn votes PB (moves PB within 1, after earlier expressing desire for 3rd candidate, vote will move again)
532 - Pass votes for NTN (ties it back up again after realizing No Lynch is not much of an option. Vote does not move again)
536 - PB unvotes EF, votes NTN (big two vote swing, 5-3 NTN now. PB's vote will move again)
577 - Telle unvotes Abe, puts PB in 2nd, ahead of EF (5-4-3, Telle's vote does not move again)
581 - PB unvotes NTN, votes Telle (4-4-3 between three main candidates, PB is moving his vote again. Note that putting vote on a non-candidate gives him maximum flexibility for later)
595 - MartinD votes PB (puts him in lead, 5-4-3, MartinD's vote does not move)
603 - NTN unvotes PF, votes PB (two vote lead for PB now, fast runup on votes for him as 3rd candidate)
604 - Autumn unvotes PB, votes Telle (narrows gap again, that is last vote move for Autumn)
605 - Chief votes EF (ties EF with NTN, one back of PB. No vote moves from Chief after this)
668 - Poli moves his vote from a fringe candidate to another non-leader in Telle (who now moves to 3 votes, 2 off the lead. No further moves by Poli)
669 - PB unvotes Telle, votes NTN (ties it again with NTN instead of the wolf EF. Not done moving yet)
679 - PB unvotes NTN, votes Telle (realizing that Telle is in striking distance, but leaving him in lead. Still one more move from him left)
699 - Alan votes NTN (puts him in tie with PB)
701 - NTN unvotes PB, votes Telle (NTN puts himself back in lead, now three way tie for 2nd. Not his last move)
707 - NTN unvotes Telle, votes EF (villager picks wolf in his last move, ties it up close to deadlin)
711 - PB unvotes Telle, votes NTN (wrong choice between villager and wolf)
713 - EF finishes it off

[hoopsguy]

Day 1 impressions, will obviously change with Day 2 info:
Looking good - Lathum, Dubb, Chief
Looking bad - Alan, Pass, BK, Abe
Looking worst of all - PB (deadline vote, chose wrong between villager/wolf)

[PurdueBrad]

Looking worst of all - PB

Wahoo.

[Alan T]

Day 1 impressions, will obviously change with Day 2 info:
Looking good - Lathum, Dubb, Chief
Looking bad - Alan, Pass, BK, Abe
Looking worst of all - PB (deadline vote, chose wrong between villager/wolf)


I fully accept looking bad day 1 with what we know now. That is fine with me. I think this recap is simplistic. I think it completely ignores the middle movement when it was a NTN - EF race where the votes shifted to PB. People commented often that people were trying to save NTN, but I still feel that it was an attempt to save EF instead. Telle and MartinD belong in that group and I feel they look worse then anyone else.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think you have to add DT and clap in there as honorable mentions.

By the way, I totally meant to 'accidentally' forget to unvote EF. :devil:


why? because i voted PB before i went to bed and then unvoted him in the morning? that's stupid

[hoopsguy]

What I consider important Day 2 votes (outside of obvious "pretty much all of them" in two-horse race):
810 - DT follows Lathum on PB (2nd vote, important because DT is suggesting that he deserves significant credit for his early vote on EF)
846/875 - both Clap and Dubb unvote PB, bringing the margin back down from 5-0 to 3-0
951 - Alan throws out 2nd candidate, who turns out to be a wolf
969 - Autumn backs Alan on 2nd candidate
971 - DT changes horses, tying it back up 3-3
985 - BK votes me, introducing 3rd candidate (more noteworthy because he had a bad vote the previous day, not his last vote on this day)
1016 - Pass follows BK on me (same logic as BK, 2nd bad vote for him, not his last vote)
1017 - PB follows on me (once again foregoing an opportunity to vote for EF, tally is now 4-3-2 EF/Me/PB)
1020 - Telle votes PB (locked in)
1045 - Abe votes PB (locked in, 2nd day in a row he not voted for wolf when wolf was in lead)
1047/1050 - Jackal votes for wolf EF, then switches to PB (locked in)
1080 - Saldana votes EF (ties it, but will move his vote later)
1112 - MartinD votes EF (breaks tie, vote doesn't move. big vote, in my mind)
1120 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes PB (again missing a chance to vote for a known wolf, not done moving yet)
1123 - PF votes EF (see MartinD above)
1137 - Lerriuqs votes PB (ties it again)
1157 - Pass unvotes Hoops, votes EF (puts wolf in lead, would be huge vote except for #1256)
1166 - Chief votes PB, ties it (changing gears from yesterday, hard for me to condemn it too much when his voting pattern matches my own)
1169 - PB unvotes me, votes EF (self-defense, good vote)
1194 - Saldana unvotes EF, votes me (tying it up, not a good vote at all, he stays here for duration)
1199 - Poli votes PB (misses chance to vote for known wolf, puts PB in lead, but will move again at deadline)
1256 - Pass forgets to unvotes, casts vote for Telle (important because his vote was on EF, which was critical down the stretch but it does not seem he wanted his vote there)
1258 - PB unvotes EF, votes Telle (puts himself up 2, Telle is way back)
1261 - Poli unvotes PB, follows on Telle (2nd vote change, neither on EF, but unvote on PB puts EF at more risk)
1265 - BK is back to voting for me, unvoting EF (still has not voted for EF in the game, although this unvote ties it)
1285 - Clap votes Telle (Telle is now 3 back of co-leaders)
1291 - BK unvotes me, votes Telle (fast rising candidate, again missing a chance to put in a really good vote on EF)
1315 - PB unvotes Telle, votes EF (complete self-preservation)
1318 - Poli unvotes Telle, votes EF (deadline snipe, probably open for interpreation)

[hoopsguy]

Day 2 impressions (not in a vacuum, combined with Day 1 vibe):
Looking good - Alan, Autumn, MartinD, PackerFanatic
Looking bad (this is harder, not sure what to make of PB) - BK, Abe, Clap, Saldana
Unsure - PB (key player, needs to be understood), Saldana, Clap, DT

[hoopsguy]

I fully accept looking bad day 1 with what we know now. That is fine with me. I think this recap is simplistic. I think it completely ignores the middle movement when it was a NTN - EF race where the votes shifted to PB. People commented often that people were trying to save NTN, but I still feel that it was an attempt to save EF instead. Telle and MartinD belong in that group and I feel they look worse then anyone else.

Fully agree that it is somewhat simplistic, but I think it goes a little beyond just the votes as the timing of the votes (with all the unvotes) was pretty important.

I would argue that MartinD's vote today looks very good, so he is not on my radar the same way he appears to be for you.

I've got Telle in a middle group. She has been up and down in voting the last two days during late action; not quite sure what to make of that.

Telle's posts were definitely more "save NTN" than they were "save EF", but the people I thought pushed the hardest for 3rd candidates on Day 1 were Telle and Autumn. I feel better about Autumn right now than I do Telle, but Telle is not at the bottom of my list like she is for you. I've got her smack in the middle at the moment, pending further information on PB.

For what it is worth, I'm a little closer to believing PB = villager now than I was earlier. I got a sense of genuine remorse for having to put the vote on EF when he couldn't counter-vote. If he faked that, then good for him. I still think his voting patterns look very poor but I certainly acknowledge that he has been under duress most of the game and that makes it tougher to make good decisions.

[Abe Sargent]

Day 1 impressions, will obviously change with Day 2 info:
Looking good - Lathum, Dubb, Chief
Looking bad - Alan, Pass, BK, Abe
Looking worst of all - PB (deadline vote, chose wrong between villager/wolf)


Why am I looking bad, exactly?

[hoopsguy]

Day 2 impressions (not in a vacuum, combined with Day 1 vibe):
Looking good - Alan, Autumn, MartinD, PackerFanatic
Looking bad (this is harder, not sure what to make of PB) - BK, Abe, Clap, Saldana
Unsure - PB (key player, needs to be understood), Saldana, Clap, DT

I've got Saldana on here twice. He probably belongs on the "unsure" at this point more than the "bad". But he is among the people who never voted for EF this game and today he actually took his vote off EF to chase me. Neither one of his votes have been on leading candidates, as Dubb got 1 vote D1 and I got 1 vote D2.

[Autumn]

Good analysis Hoops. I found similar things in looking through them. I am leaning away from the possibility that Purdue is bad, though his voting record could be read as suspect. I voted Eaglefan this morning based on analysis that the wolves were trying to protect him in a runoff against PB. While there is an outside chance that they're both wolves, but PB is more important to the wolves, I'm going to operate for now with the assumption that that's not the case.

Here's another question. Who was still around near deadline that did not switch votes. I'm particularly wondering about those who voted a third candidate. If they were available to switch votes at the end and save EagleFan but didn't that speaks a lot -- assuming PB is good. If there vote was stuck because they were absent, not so much.

[Autumn]

I would add Dubb to a looks good category. He voted for EagleFan both days, with votes that put EagleFan in a lead (4-2 both times). They were early votes but they certainly look good.

[hoopsguy]

Why am I looking bad, exactly?

Not voting for EF on either day. On Day 1 you put in a vote that tied up NTN with EF at 4-4. On Day 2 you put in a vote that tied up PB with EF.

Both were reasonably early votes, where others had the opportunity to really settle the matter.

You've also suggested that you trust BK a lot back on Day 1, and his voting record is worse than yours at this point. Creating a linkage to him is probably not the best thing in the world in terms of my trust lists. I don't think that you are both bad (would be kinda ballsy for you to do if you were both wolves) but I think there is a pretty good chance that one of you is.

[hoopsguy]

Here's another question. Who was still around near deadline that did not switch votes. I'm particularly wondering about those who voted a third candidate. If they were available to switch votes at the end and save EagleFan but didn't that speaks a lot -- assuming PB is good. If there vote was stuck because they were absent, not so much.

I'm the wrong guy to answer this. I was in and out yesterday during the last hour (around for last 10 minutes, I think) but completely missed last 75 minutes today.

[Poli]

Off to bed.

[hoopsguy]

I would add Dubb to a looks good category. He voted for EagleFan both days, with votes that put EagleFan in a lead (4-2 both times). They were early votes but they certainly look good.

Agreed, I had him on the "good" list from D1 and he probably should be in that category after Day 2 as well.

I don't think that this is anything close to a full-blown trust list, but it hopefully serves as a tickler for people with roles when they are making decisions tonight.

[Abe Sargent]

Not voting for EF on either day. On Day 1 you put in a vote that tied up NTN with EF at 4-4. On Day 2 you put in a vote that tied up PB with EF.

Both were reasonably early votes, where others had the opportunity to really settle the matter.

You've also suggested that you trust BK a lot back on Day 1, and his voting record is worse than yours at this point. Creating a linkage to him is probably not the best thing in the world in terms of my trust lists. I don't think that you are both bad (would be kinda ballsy for you to do if you were both wolves) but I think there is a pretty good chance that one of you is.

Okay, fair enough.

[Abe Sargent]

Can't argue logic

[hoopsguy]

I've got about 15 more minutes tonight if people want to talk about the lists.

I'll let people slot me where they feel comfortable on the lists. I think hindsight suggests I had a good D1 and not a very good D2.

If people do not think that I'm the right person to make the interpretation of the data, because they do not trust me then I would urge them to take their crack. I've posted all of my voting info in the thread. So have at it :)

[Abe Sargent]

Agreed, I had him on the "good" list from D1 and he probably should be in that category after Day 2 as well.

I don't think that this is anything close to a full-blown trust list, but it hopefully serves as a tickler for people with roles when they are making decisions tonight.

If you are thinking of going BK tomorrow, I would instead prefer you vote me. Now, I'd rather you not vote either one, but if that's the way you are going, me over him please.

[Autumn]

I"m off to bed, I won't make it to see the night results. Here's hoping good things happen.

[Autumn]

If you are thinking of going BK tomorrow, I would instead prefer you vote me. Now, I'd rather you not vote either one, but if that's the way you are going, me over him please.

I love how a good vote analysis flushes things out.

Interesting.

[Lathum]

deadline?

[dubb93]

deadline?

Danny said he would be late and not to wait up on him. Let me find it and quote it real quick.

[dubb93]

Also, I may be running night 2 later than normal tonight, so don't wait up for the results :).

Post #1344

[Lathum]

oh

[dubb93]

I'm starting to think he was pretty damn serious about this whole don't wait up thing.

[Abe Sargent]

Yup, looks it

[Lathum]

I'm starting to think he was pretty damn serious about this whole don't wait up thing.

yeah. I'll be up a bit longer I hope. Getting deep into a poker tournament and doing some reading for school

[The Jackal]

Well, I'm still around. Where are you, CR?

[Chief Rum]

Heh, wrapping up my export for my OOTP league. But then I'm off to bed.