WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over!

[hoopsguy]

I would suggest looking hard at both the D1 and D2 votes, since we have near complete information in terms of analysis - the three main candidates in those votes (NTN, PB, EF) are all dead and factions revealed.

There is not as much to work with for D3 just yet, but don't discount D1 completely when looking at D2. This is not only for my benefit, but also potentially that of other players who are on the wrong side of a D2 vote that may have done better on the D1 vote.

[Danny]

Not enough action, I'm bringing PurdueBrad back to life!

[hoopsguy]

I'm all for bringing villagers back to life.

Seriously, the conversation has been a little sluggish today and I would love to see it get going again. We should have a pretty lively discussion about where to go today.

One thing that has fallen completely off the radar - the "no kill" on Night 1. I'm thinking that the more time that passes without an explanation, the more likely it is that this was not good for the villagers. I had hoped we had a BG block (still might, but with no reveal of info either way) or some power that blocked the night kill wolf from acting. But if someone had an action that prevented a wolf from initiating the kill I think it would have come up by now. So at some point, I think we have to assume conversion.

The only reason I'm not there already is that N1 is a lousy time to convert someone. You get no benefit from potential seer scans working for you later in the game in terms of trust lists.

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe the wolves blew it and forgot to submit an action?

[claphamsa]

ha

[DaddyTorgo]

idk - i'm with you in that i don't see the value of a N1 conversion.
I think we assume it was a BG-block (maybe with no info revealed as to who was blocked?) until such a time as we have evidence otherwise.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe the conversion only happens if they attack a certain player, and they just got lucky N1? I dunno. I hate conversions, so I'd rather not think about it and assume it's not in the game unless mentioned.

[claphamsa]

There is alaways value in any conversion, just not as much night 1 vs night 5.

[Telle]

If it was a Night 1 conversion, then the only thing to really be concerned about is an additional wolf, right? It's not like when you're in the middle of a game and a conversion happens to somebody on the trusted list. So I really don't think it's worth worrying about either way. Yeah it may affect some math, but that's about it.

[Lathum]

Maybe the conversion only happens if they attack a certain player, and they just got lucky N1? I dunno. I hate conversions, so I'd rather not think about it and assume it's not in the game unless mentioned.

This would be my thought as well.

[Lathum]

maybe the wolves blew it and forgot to submit an action?

didn't you mess up the deadline time N1 and not vote?

[Poli]

Maybe the conversion only happens if they attack a certain player, and they just got lucky N1? I dunno. I hate conversions, so I'd rather not think about it and assume it's not in the game unless mentioned.

That or a block and the BG just hasn't spoke up. I'm guessing like last game that the BG doesn't know who he blocked...just that he did. Therefore it would be senseless to say, "Hey, I'm the BG and performed a block on ... someone.

The only reason it worked out well for me last game was because I felt compelled to reveal (thanks a lot you magnifcent bastage, Pass). Follow that with a successful block, there really was no reason for me to keep that information to myself.

Son of a gun, I think I just talked my way into figuring out who the BG *may* be.

[Danny]

While I enjoy the analysis, I will clear this up. There are no conversions in this game.

[Poli]

If it was a Night 1 conversion, then the only thing to really be concerned about is an additional wolf, right? It's not like when you're in the middle of a game and a conversion happens to somebody on the trusted list. So I really don't think it's worth worrying about either way. Yeah it may affect some math, but that's about it.
If it was a conversion, we're certainly hating life. 12/4 without a sympathizer...but it's more like 11/5. A conversion puts us at 10/6.

Good odds for us to find one of them. Good odds for them to finish off this game, though.

I really hope it wasn't a conversion. I really hope there isn't a conversion possibility. 7 wolves (including sympathizer) out of 21? That's borderline retarded.

[Poli]

While I enjoy the analysis, I will clear this up. There are no conversions in this game.
Whew. All I had to do is throw out the "retarded" word.

[hoopsguy]

While I enjoy the analysis, I will clear this up. There are no conversions in this game.

Perfect - so there seems to have been some kind of profitable N1 event for us that has not made its way into the analysis yet.

[Poli]

Hoops, I don't have much analysis to give outside of what I've already shared. I'm not much of a mudslinger, no offense to you. I never have been. Sure, I've been all over someone's cheese in the past...right and wrong.

I think Pass's game last time was a mudslinger type...trying to fling it on Render and me. I got frustrated to the point where I revealed...which was both good and bad. I don't confuse you with Pass, he's much better looking (posted because Danny told me I had to say that), but I feel that you're doing the same thing. You don't put on near the amount of pressure, I'll give you that, thankfully.

Truth is, I think between Telle, Jackal, and well, you I think there is a wolf or two.

There is one other person in the game that I can't get a read on, but he's someone I always have problems reading anyhow.

[Poli]

Perfect - so there seems to have been some kind of profitable N1 event for us that has not made its way into the analysis yet.
Yup.

[Lathum]

Son of a gun, I think I just talked my way into figuring out who the BG *may* be.

I think I also figured it out

[Poli]

I have more maintenance to do, back in about an hour.

[Autumn]

Is Poli the only vote so far?

I'm going between Telle and Lerriuqs at this point. Since we have one on Telle, I think, I'll introduce a second canddiate and hopefully scare Lerriuqs out of the wood work.

<b>vote lerriuqs</b>

[DaddyTorgo]

I think I also figured it out

I didn't.

[DaddyTorgo]

Is Poli the only vote so far?

I'm going between Telle and Lerriuqs at this point. Since we have one on Telle, I think, I'll introduce a second canddiate and hopefully scare Lerriuqs out of the wood work.

vote lerriuqs

common sense and the lists of those posted indicates that we should prolly make it between telle and jackal i thought?

i have yet to do my analysis - it'll prolly have to wait till my 1pm lunchtime

[DaddyTorgo]

didn't you mess up the deadline time N1 and not vote?

yep

[Telle]

Is Poli the only vote so far?

I'm going between Telle and Lerriuqs at this point. Since we have one on Telle, I think, I'll introduce a second canddiate and hopefully scare Lerriuqs out of the wood work.

<b>vote lerriuqs</b>

I was going to go with Lerriuqs, because I think it's time to start looking at the under-the-radar guys. But I'm not sure his voting record warrants it, from my perspective. On Day 1 he voted early and didn't come back to the game.. so it was your typical random Day 1 vote. On Day 2 he voted the same way I did, so I can't fault him there. And then on Day 3 he voted how I wanted to vote (had to vote in self-defense instead), so I can't fault him on that either. Then again, I was wrong about my Day 2 vote, so so was he. So basically, I just don't see him jumping out as being bad.. although that doesn't mean he's anywhere near being cleared either.

[Autumn]

common sense and the lists of those posted indicates that we should prolly make it between telle and jackal i thought?

i have yet to do my analysis - it'll prolly have to wait till my 1pm lunchtime

WEll, my list was Telle, Jackal and Lerriuqs. I'd like at least two of these to get significant votes today. I posted earlier that I think Jackal may be an independent, but count as a villager, so I'm going to focus on the other two.

[Lathum]

I'm not a fan of Autumns voting record or his trust list, or his explination for why I'm not on it.

[Danny]

GAME EVENT - The Happy Birthday Poli!!!!!!!!

[claphamsa]

I didn't.
me either, but thats not a surprie :)

[hoopsguy]

I'm not a fan of Autumns voting record or his trust list, or his explination for why I'm not on it.

His Day 2 vote was pretty good, helping create the PB/EF race early in the day after you started the voting on PB and others (including me) followed your lead.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm always the last to figure out those subtle clues...just an FYI for anyone ever trying to leave me a breadcrumb - I'm dense...I'll miss it 99 times out of 100.

[hoopsguy]

I was going to go with Lerriuqs, because I think it's time to start looking at the under-the-radar guys. But I'm not sure his voting record warrants it, from my perspective. On Day 1 he voted early and didn't come back to the game.. so it was your typical random Day 1 vote. On Day 2 he voted the same way I did, so I can't fault him there. And then on Day 3 he voted how I wanted to vote (had to vote in self-defense instead), so I can't fault him on that either. Then again, I was wrong about my Day 2 vote, so so was he. So basically, I just don't see him jumping out as being bad.. although that doesn't mean he's anywhere near being cleared either.

Telle, so who do you see jumping out as bad? And what metric are you using beyond voting records to help guide you towards a vote?

Part of the reason that people are on both you and Lerriuqs is because you have "bad" voting records. So you saying that he doesn't look bad to you because he voted the way you wanted to - when you don't exactly have a stellar voting record - is a curious semi-defense.

The voting records are what they are; you can't change them at this point. I'm not asking for any kind of an apology for how you voted or anything of the sort. But if looking at votes is not your primary tool for looking at people right now, then what is?

[Lathum]

His Day 2 vote was pretty good, helping create the PB/EF race early in the day after you started the voting on PB and others (including me) followed your lead.

really?

Looks to me like his vote was the second one on EF, thats pretty early.

And you say followed my lead as if I led some kind of charge, which I clearly didn't do. In fact, I was very persistant in saying I don't want people to follow me.

I really don't like the picture you are tying to paint here. There's something about you this game that smells funny.

[DaddyTorgo]

i could see myself easily voting for hoops today.

then again it's also d4 and lathum is still alive...

[Telle]

Telle, so who do you see jumping out as bad? And what metric are you using beyond voting records to help guide you towards a vote?

Part of the reason that people are on both you and Lerriuqs is because you have "bad" voting records. So you saying that he doesn't look bad to you because he voted the way you wanted to - when you don't exactly have a stellar voting record - is a curious semi-defense.

The voting records are what they are; you can't change them at this point. I'm not asking for any kind of an apology for how you voted or anything of the sort. But if looking at votes is not your primary tool for looking at people right now, then what is?

Well I'm trying to look at things that don't necessarily align with my voting record.. since I think it's a little hypocritical to go "Oh look at his awful voting record!" when it's similar to mine. Although I fully realize that I'll probably eventually have to go that way.

One thing I'm taking a look at is Day 2. There were three people who didn't vote for one of the main two contenders. Barkeep is dead and has already been shown to be good. That leaves saldana and clap. Yesterday saldana got a lot of heat but then seems to have fallen by the wayside today for not appearant reason. The clap doesn't seem to be on anybody's trusted nor distrusted lists.. so he's just kind of floating around in the middle, which is a great place for a wolf to hide. On Day 1 clap also had an outlier vote, and on Day 3 he voted for me right off when it was obvious that I had been getting a lot of heat.. so that's an easy vote to make.

So, that's my thoughts on some other voting options. That said, I have the feeling that today may be another self-defense vote for me.

[DaddyTorgo]

could this be hoops+lathum playing us and trying to work up some animosity in-thread while wolving it up behind the scenes and then they're both going to end up backing off each other before any votes get thrown down?

care to put your money where your mouth is lathum? :)

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[Lathum]

i could see myself easily voting for hoops today.

then again it's also d4 and lathum is still alive...

Then vote me. Just don't forget like you did day 1. Did you also forget to submit the night order?

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, I guess good to have you added to the list that are suspicious of my play so far :rolleyes:

Seriously, in terms of trust over the course of the first few days I have Autumn pretty high on the list. I think I've been pretty consistent with this with the trust lists that I've published - he has always been one of the top four guys.

You voted for PB right away on Day 2 and never moved the vote, despite posting multiple times in the thread that you thought EF was a good candidate. I'm pretty sure that you cannot dispute this point.

Is it logical for others to have followed your lead on the vote on Day 2, thinking that you might be playing it somewhat cagily at that point as a seer? Gee, I think so since that is how I responded. No matter what kind of denials you posted in the thread, I figured you were just trying to avoid wolf attention later in the game after busting one of their number.

Now, clearly that was not the case. So at this point I'm of the opinion that you probably have your own set of reasons for voting for PB that day and never moving it. The idea of separate win conditions seems to resonate for me at this point. Which is why I've been listing you as neutral since Friday on my trust lists. I think there are better candidates out there than you to pursue for a lynch, but I'm not sure how much to trust your analysis because I'm not 100% sure that we have the same goals for the outcome of the game.

[Lathum]

could this be hoops+lathum playing us and trying to work up some animosity in-thread while wolving it up behind the scenes and then they're both going to end up backing off each other before any votes get thrown down?

care to put your money where your mouth is lathum? :)

VOTE HOOPSGUY

umm, I can't. Remember, you criticized me.

OK, I think DT is bad. There are a number of things in this post that scream at me.

1. Saw a chance to get hoops in the forefront and took it.
2. Tried to get me to vote, makes it look like he didn't know I can't, whereas a wolf would for sure know I can't
3. If hoops goes down then he can try to move to me since you know, it's day 4 and I'm still alive.
4. Hoops and I really haven't gone back and forth much at all, and far less then either of us are capable of doing.

[hoopsguy]

could this be hoops+lathum playing us and trying to work up some animosity in-thread while wolving it up behind the scenes and then they're both going to end up backing off each other before any votes get thrown down?

care to put your money where your mouth is lathum? :)

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Honestly, do you really think that I'm the best option for a vote today? Is this some desire to be "right" in the face of long odds, kind of like the people who lose money chasing 50-1 shots every Kentucky Derby so they can be right just that one time on "Mine that Bird"?

Only they end up voting the wrong 50-1 that day as well, so not only are they suckers, but they find themselves lamenting their bad luck after the fact?

Seriously, the voting records suggest that there are at least a half dozen people who are more likely to be wolves than I am this game. All you are doing with a vote like this is generating more scrutiny from me right now and a whole heck of a lot more for yourself later in the game if you actually succeed in getting my lynched.

[Lathum]

Lathum, I guess good to have you added to the list that are suspicious of my play so far :rolleyes:



I'm suspicious of the fact you made it seem like I was the pied piper leading the charge.

I think it's obvious that because of the mechanics of this game I couldn't say to much and I did everything I could to give some sort of explination.

[Lathum]

VOTE MINE THAT BIRD

[hoopsguy]

umm, I can't. Remember, you criticized me.

OK, I think DT is bad. There are a number of things in this post that scream at me.

1. Saw a chance to get hoops in the forefront and took it.
2. Tried to get me to vote, makes it look like he didn't know I can't, whereas a wolf would for sure know I can't
3. If hoops goes down then he can try to move to me since you know, it's day 4 and I'm still alive.
4. Hoops and I really haven't gone back and forth much at all, and far less then either of us are capable of doing.

Don't forget that he piled on PB day 2 (second vote on him) when it looked like you were coming out as seer. Then he bailed pretty quickly, moving over to EF and trying to suggest that he was the primary mover and shaker in that vote.

There are enough people out there who have done nothing in terms of voting for a wolf this game that he is not my #1 choice. But his play this game has creeped me out the whole time and if I was Alan T and playing on gut I would put my vote here right now and not even bother checking back in the thread for the rest of the day.

[Lathum]

Don't forget that he piled on PB day 2 (second vote on him) when it looked like you were coming out as seer. Then he bailed pretty quickly, moving over to EF and trying to suggest that he was the primary mover and shaker in that vote.

There are enough people out there who have done nothing in terms of voting for a wolf this game that he is not my #1 choice. But his play this game has creeped me out the whole time and if I was Alan T and playing on gut I would put my vote here right now and not even bother checking back in the thread for the rest of the day.

Do it for Me!!!

[hoopsguy]

I'm suspicious of the fact you made it seem like I was the pied piper leading the charge.

I think it's obvious that because of the mechanics of this game I couldn't say to much and I did everything I could to give some sort of explination.

For better or worse, your early vote led to a number of people following and PB being one of the two main people in the vote that day. You can't say what the reasons were, and I get that.

For better or worse, I followed your lead that day and did not switch. I can comment fully on that vote and I have. So far this game, I have not been restricted by my role in any way, shape, or form when it comes to posting in the thread.

[hoopsguy]

Do it for Me!!!

Does this mean that you like DT as a wolf more than The Jackal at this point? Because earlier you said that you would vote for The Jackal if you had not been squelched today.

[claphamsa]

this is great back and forth :)

[Autumn]

Lathum, to respond to your comments, I think the best thing in my favor is my day 2 activity. If you go back and read you'll see that I was a force behind getting votes on EagleFan all day, and I think very early revealed what was going on, with the criticism cover for getting heat off of EF and onto PB. While a single vote doesn't mean too too much, if you read back I think you'll see I was the major voice in making a case for EF which would be outrageously stupid for a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

umm, I can't. Remember, you criticized me.

OK, I think DT is bad. There are a number of things in this post that scream at me.

1. Saw a chance to get hoops in the forefront and took it.
2. Tried to get me to vote, makes it look like he didn't know I can't, whereas a wolf would for sure know I can't
3. If hoops goes down then he can try to move to me since you know, it's day 4 and I'm still alive.
4. Hoops and I really haven't gone back and forth much at all, and far less then either of us are capable of doing.

i criticized you? like i said - i didn't really follow what went on over the weekend...i didn't criticize anyone. Didn't realize you were critcized either.

I am a villager. I have a small role, but it's not very integral to the sucess of the village, so if you want to lynch me, go ahead.

[Lathum]

Does this mean that you like DT as a wolf more than The Jackal at this point? Because earlier you said that you would vote for The Jackal if you had not been squelched today.

I think I may actually like DT as a better candidate. I mean, lets face it, there was probably at least one wolf on EF at some point.

[DaddyTorgo]

omg...really...the PB thing again? Lathum's quick vote with no comment made me think that he had some type of inside information so i moved to back him up.

and i did a lot of good public thinking on the EF thing (people even said as much at the time).

if you want to lynch me, go ahead, it's no big loss.

if lathum's been criticized and really can't put his money where his mouth is, then there's no point in voting for hoops to try to see if that theory of mine is correct at this juncture.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY

[Poli]

I think I may actually like DT as a better candidate. I mean, lets face it, there was probably at least one wolf on EF at some point.
I think hoops was making that argument before and I can agree with that. I would say one, maybe two at that.

[Lathum]

While a single vote doesn't mean too too much, if you read back I think you'll see I was the major voice in making a case for EF which would be outrageously stupid for a wolf.

I'm not so sure it is.

I think it was pretty clear EF was going to either be voted off or scanned very soon, what better way to buy trust then get in early on that sweet, sweet action.

It's what I would do. I think we would be making a huge mistake if we assumed there were no wolves voting for EF.

[DaddyTorgo]

so basically you're suspicious of everyone who voted early for Lathum?

That just screams classic "deflect attention away from me" to me right now

[Lathum]

so basically you're suspicious of everyone who voted early for Lathum?

That just screams classic "deflect attention away from me" to me right now

when did anyone ever vote for me?

[Passacaglia]

I haven't been able to follow this morning very well, but my list is the people who followed Lathum's vote for PB, probably to get the bandwagon going on him instead of EF -- that's DT, hoops, and clap.

[hoopsguy]

Telle, the reason I've dropped off Saldana is because I don't think he is as dumb a wolf as his voting record and play up to this point suggest. If, after the game it turns out that he is, then hopefully we can have a good laugh together over these posts. I did vote for him yesterday when it seemed that my candidate (The Jackal) wasn't going to get the votes. So I voted Saldana to try and save PB and because I thought you were a smidge more likely good than evil.

I obviously cannot speak for others, but Saldana has one of the worst voting records in the game. He has also not disputed that point. But I would like to see him start bringing some more to the table in terms of analysis because I've seen him play some very good games in the past combining gut/logic.

I'm going to put a vote down at this point because I would like to see us start to dial up the pressure a little bit on a couple of people.

VOTE LERRIUQS

[DaddyTorgo]

so basically you're suspicious of everyone who voted early for EagleFan Lathum?

That just screams classic "deflect attention away from me" to me right now

corrected

[Lathum]

omg...really...the PB thing again? Lathum's quick vote with no comment made me think that he had some type of inside information so i moved to back him up.

and i did a lot of good public thinking on the EF thing (people even said as much at the time).

if you want to lynch me, go ahead, it's no big loss.

if lathum's been criticized and really can't put his money where his mouth is, then there's no point in voting for hoops to try to see if that theory of mine is correct at this juncture.

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY



http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2384/digging.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digging.jpg)

[DaddyTorgo]

when did anyone ever vote for me?

corrected below. left out the "for EF" clause

[DaddyTorgo]

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2384/digging.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digging.jpg)


haha

[claphamsa]

I haven't been able to follow this morning very well, but my list is the people who followed Lathum's vote for PB, probably to get the bandwagon going on him instead of EF -- that's DT, hoops, and clap.
bandwagon? he indicted he had info... ie a seer scan, so we voted accordingly, then when he indicated it was something else, we (well me) unvoted.

this seems to be an argument like lathum (kept) making (over and over) last game, and he turned out to be a wolf.

[claphamsa]

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2384/digging.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digging.jpg)


I hate photobucket! its blocked at work :(

[hoopsguy]

Clap, what candidates stand out for you right now? Since people are speculating that you are staying out of the line of fire with your votes, here is a chance for you to help shape the voting for today.

[DaddyTorgo]

bandwagon? he indicted he had info... ie a seer scan, so we voted accordingly, then when he indicated it was something else, we (well me) unvoted.

this seems to be an argument like lathum (kept) making (over and over) last game, and he turned out to be a wolf.

i agree with clap.

i didn't realize lathum was criticized. be ballsy of the wolves to criticize their own twice in a game though...

[Passacaglia]

bandwagon? he indicted he had info... ie a seer scan, so we voted accordingly, then when he indicated it was something else, we (well me) unvoted.

this seems to be an argument like lathum (kept) making (over and over) last game, and he turned out to be a wolf.

What did he say that indicated that?

[DaddyTorgo]

and had i realized you were criticized and unable to speak lathum obviously i would have realized that my plan wasn't going to work...so i unvoted...what's your point?

[Lathum]

bandwagon? he indicted he had info... ie a seer scan, so we voted accordingly, then when he indicated it was something else, we (well me) unvoted.

.

please quote where I said I had info.

[claphamsa]

i agree with clap.

i didn't realize lathum was criticized. be ballsy of the wolves to criticize their own twice in a game though...


I think this was me more being suspicious of pass....

[Lathum]

this seems to be an argument like lathum (kept) making (over and over) last game, and he turned out to be a wolf.

I really don't see any correlation between the 2.

[claphamsa]

Clap, what candidates stand out for you right now? Since people are speculating that you are staying out of the line of fire with your votes, here is a chance for you to help shape the voting for today.


telles comments bug me, but im not sure.... she always comes of as kinda wolfy to me :)

[claphamsa]

please quote where I said I had info.
I think the jump in right at deadline indicated something to us.... I dont think you ever SAID, thats why I said indicated :)

no need to get defensive....

[hoopsguy]

and had i realized you were criticized and unable to speak lathum obviously i would have realized that my plan wasn't going to work...so i unvoted...what's your point?

So what, exactly, was your plan? To see if Lathum would vote for me because you thought we were both wolves? I'm seriously not following this at all. Trying to predict what either one of us would do, as wolves together, separately, or not at all, eight hours before deadline seems like an exercise in futility.

[Passacaglia]

I think the jump in right at deadline indicated something to us.... I dont think you ever SAID, thats why I said indicated :)

no need to get defensive....

So why did you decide to vote early, instead of waiting for more info?

[saldana]

thanks for thinking i am not as stupid as i seem Hoops :D

i actually do have a thought....not saying i firmly believe it, but it is a thought worth throwing out there.

there was a lot of disbelief on day 2 regarding EF because he was criticized on N1...people didnt think that the wolves would waste their criticism on one of there own...EF of course turned up wolf.

now it is N3, and they have another shot to criticize someone. seeing how many people didnt think they would do it the first time, would it not be an interesting ploy to criticize one of their own again as a means of buying trust?

half of us didnt think they would waste it once...how many of us wont think they will waste it twice?

again, not saying i am even sold on my own idea, but it is food for thought.

[Lathum]

and had i realized you were criticized and unable to speak lathum obviously i would have realized that my plan wasn't going to work...so i unvoted...what's your point?

what plan is that?

To get a run on Hoops when there are obviously better candidates?

Great plan:thumbsup:

[hoopsguy]

thanks for thinking i am not as stupid as i seem Hoops :D

i actually do have a thought....not saying i firmly believe it, but it is a thought worth throwing out there.

there was a lot of disbelief on day 2 regarding EF because he was criticized on N1...people didnt think that the wolves would waste their criticism on one of there own...EF of course turned up wolf.

now it is N3, and they have another shot to criticize someone. seeing how many people didnt think they would do it the first time, would it not be an interesting ploy to criticize one of their own again as a means of buying trust?

half of us didnt think they would waste it once...how many of us wont think they will waste it twice?

again, not saying i am even sold on my own idea, but it is food for thought.

Walk through that thought, then. What was Lathum's agenda on Day 2 if he was a wolf? If he wanted to try and get a non-wolf lynched there are probably better ways of doing it than the route he took. So what was he trying to accomplish?

[Lathum]

why such a quick vote, lathum?

I saw some stuff in his play yesterday that stuck out to me

just wanted to put in quotes where I said my vote was based on something I saw in his play.

[DaddyTorgo]

So what, exactly, was your plan? To see if Lathum would vote for me because you thought we were both wolves? I'm seriously not following this at all. Trying to predict what either one of us would do, as wolves together, separately, or not at all, eight hours before deadline seems like an exercise in futility.

resistance...is...never...futile!!

they invade our space and we fall back. they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. not again! the line must be drawn here! this far, no further!

[saldana]

resistance...is...never...futile!!

they invade our space and we fall back. they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. not again! the line must be drawn here! this far, no further!


very nice...did you see the new one?

[claphamsa]

I really don't see any correlation between the 2.
the correlation is... you picked up on something completely random and pounded it over and over and over last game, to make me look bad, and you were a wolf. and here we have pass picking up something equally inane, and is not making a big deal about it.

[claphamsa]

So why did you decide to vote early, instead of waiting for more info?
I always prfer to vote early, because im a flake and dont want to forget :)

[Passacaglia]

I always prfer to vote early, because im a flake and dont want to forget :)

I think I missed your vote today. Who was it for?

[DaddyTorgo]

very nice...did you see the new one?

:D

mmhmm opening night - you haven't been participating in the OT thread on it? or are you mocking me?

I'm slowly coming around on it - going to see it again this week with a friend and we'll see what i think then

[Lathum]

the correlation is... you picked up on something completely random and pounded it over and over and over last game.

I do that every game, whether I am a wolf or not.

[claphamsa]

I think I missed your vote today. Who was it for?
havent voted yet.

[claphamsa]

vote passacaglia

[claphamsa]

happy :)

[claphamsa]

I do that every game, whether I am a wolf or not.


usually when you grab on to something, it is at least relevant to the game :)

[Passacaglia]

havent voted yet.

How early do you usually prefer to vote?

[saldana]

Walk through that thought, then. What was Lathum's agenda on Day 2 if he was a wolf? If he wanted to try and get a non-wolf lynched there are probably better ways of doing it than the route he took. So what was he trying to accomplish?

lets look at what he actually did.

he shot a vote out at 20 minutes into the day and used a very nebulous defense about why. he could easily have been taking advantage of the "no information about your role" mechanic as a means of a cover.

he backpedaled away from his own vote the entire day, saying he would like the other vote for EF better...i wish i had more time to go back and check the timings of his various statements...was he covering his tail by agreeing with the EF votes after they already started to gain some momentum?

he claims that the outcome of the day was advantagous to not only him, but the village as a whole, but we have yet to see anything to validate that point

on day 2, i said i detected the manipulations of a very good wolf...my initial thoughts were it was Hoops (which it still may be), but my short list included Lathum, Barkeep, and Poli. of those, barkeep is obviously out, but I think you will agree that this strategy is well within Lathums vaunted wolfy skillset.

as to why would he be so daring on day 2...he knows he needs to make a move to get in the COT early...he will get heat for being alive too long (which has now started)...he needed to make a play fast in order to give himself cover when that heat starts to come down

[hoopsguy]

It worries me that he seems to be defending Telle. I just don't trust Telle at all at this point and yet he seems certain that Telle is good. One of us has to be wrong.

Re-reading posts as I'm doing a vote count. I think I've been in a spot where I've always felt there was a better candidate than Telle. The only spot where I've "defended" her is that I took her explanation on the NTN business on Day 1 at face value, rather than suggesting some kind of elaborate bluff was going on.

[saldana]

:D

mmhmm opening night - you haven't been participating in the OT thread on it? or are you mocking me?

I'm slowly coming around on it - going to see it again this week with a friend and we'll see what i think then


not mocking at all...couldnt tell you the last time I went to OT..too many asshats running loose...i will check it out (i didnt go until 2nd show on day 2)

[claphamsa]

How early do you usually prefer to vote?

I prefer to vote as early as I have an idea who to vote for :) its not like you cant unvote if your wrong

[DaddyTorgo]

lets look at what he actually did.

he shot a vote out at 20 minutes into the day and used a very nebulous defense about why. he could easily have been taking advantage of the "no information about your role" mechanic as a means of a cover.

he backpedaled away from his own vote the entire day, saying he would like the other vote for EF better...i wish i had more time to go back and check the timings of his various statements...was he covering his tail by agreeing with the EF votes after they already started to gain some momentum?

he claims that the outcome of the day was advantagous to not only him, but the village as a whole, but we have yet to see anything to validate that point

on day 2, i said i detected the manipulations of a very good wolf...my initial thoughts were it was Hoops (which it still may be), but my short list included Lathum, Barkeep, and Poli. of those, barkeep is obviously out, but I think you will agree that this strategy is well within Lathums vaunted wolfy skillset.

as to why would he be so daring on day 2...he knows he needs to make a move to get in the COT early...he will get heat for being alive too long (which has now started)...he needed to make a play fast in order to give himself cover when that heat starts to come down

if anyone can read lathum it's his BFF!

[Passacaglia]

vote telle

Geez clap, you voted 14 minutes before deadline just on Day 2! At least try to be a little less obvious with your lies next time!

[DaddyTorgo]

not mocking at all...couldnt tell you the last time I went to OT..too many asshats running loose...i will check it out (i didnt go until 2nd show on day 2)

we can discuss via IM @ some point too - once this is over. basically i felt very BLAH about it right after but i am slowly coming around, and i think repeated viewings will help that.

i guess i figure it's better than nothing.

[claphamsa]

Geez clap, you voted 14 minutes before deadline just on Day 2! At least try to be a little less obvious with your lies next time!
This is the exact reason I prefer to vote early! I had no idea who to vote for and it was a runaway on2 guys I wasnt convinced were worth voting for. Which I stated very clearly at the time.

Seriously pass, your way too good of a player to this shitty of a job of railroading me :)

[Lathum]

as to why would he be so daring on day 2...he knows he needs to make a move to get in the COT early...he will get heat for being alive too long (which has now started)...he needed to make a play fast in order to give himself cover when that heat starts to come down

so what you are saying is I make a crazy over the top play on day 2 that would likely earn me a seer scan, just to try to get myself into a COT because if I stay alive to long people are just going to assume i am a wolf?

So the best way for me to gain trust is to make a play calling attention to myself, in a game where I can't say why I made that play or what benefit the play gives us, on the second day.

Right, makes perfect sense.

[hoopsguy]

I had an earlier post where I noted that Telle, Jackal, and Lerriuqs were the common names across distrust lists from me, Autumn, and Lathum.

Then DT posts this a little later:
common sense and the lists of those posted indicates that we should prolly make it between telle and jackal i thought?

i have yet to do my analysis - it'll prolly have to wait till my 1pm lunchtime

FWIW, this is another point that is drawing me towards Lerriuqs rather than the candidates DT mentioned. I've already suggested that I'm pretty concerned with DT's play, and the fact that he leaves Lerriuqs out of the discussion while bringing up Telle and Jackal struck me as odd.

[Lathum]

if anyone can read lathum it's his BFF!

Stop pussyfooting around and vote for me already.

[Passacaglia]

This is the exact reason I prefer to vote early! I had no idea who to vote for and it was a runaway on2 guys I wasnt convinced were worth voting for. Which I stated very clearly at the time.

Seriously pass, your way too good of a player to this shitty of a job of railroading me :)

Now who's defensive?

So if you didn't like either candidate, why didn't you vote for a third one? Why did you wait around for so long until someone else did?

[claphamsa]

basically yes. I couldn't decide and then there were votes for someone i didn't trust, so I jumped on board!

[saldana]

Walk through that thought, then. What was Lathum's agenda on Day 2 if he was a wolf? If he wanted to try and get a non-wolf lynched there are probably better ways of doing it than the route he took. So what was he trying to accomplish?

also, look at the payoff if it worked...PB would be dead, EF would be semi-trusted because he had been criticized, and Lathum would have been able to plead some cock'n bull story about having to vote that way because of his role, which would have been completely impossible to confirm. (which is actually what he is doing right now)

[saldana]

if anyone can read lathum it's his BFF!

and we prefer Hetero Life Mates

[saldana]

so what you are saying is I make a crazy over the top play on day 2 that would likely earn me a seer scan, just to try to get myself into a COT because if I stay alive to long people are just going to assume i am a wolf?

So the best way for me to gain trust is to make a play calling attention to myself, in a game where I can't say why I made that play or what benefit the play gives us, on the second day.

Right, makes perfect sense.

there is a cunning wolf in this game, isnt there?

you know damn well your mere existence invites a seer scan! (look, and exclamation point:p )

[Passacaglia]

basically yes. I couldn't decide and then there were votes for someone i didn't trust, so I jumped on board!

I'm asking why you didn't vote for a third player early -- when you always prefer to vote. If you didn't like either candidate, waiting only makes it even tougher for you to decide. Why didn't you put a vote on a candidate that you were more suspicious of early?

[hoopsguy]

so what you are saying is I make a crazy over the top play on day 2 that would likely earn me a seer scan, just to try to get myself into a COT because if I stay alive to long people are just going to assume i am a wolf?

So the best way for me to gain trust is to make a play calling attention to myself, in a game where I can't say why I made that play or what benefit the play gives us, on the second day.

Right, makes perfect sense.

Lathum, you have just finished the one scenario where I can see you making this play - because you are a cunning wolf and will show up good on the scan.

Of course, I do not think that you really need to do this. You probably get scanned early enough on your own without any antics. Which is why I've more or less dismissed this scenario. But that is the only way that I can see your Day 2 play making any sense as a wolf. Low probability; pretty much discarded. I'll worry about it later in the game if we have a seer emerge with a trust list that includes you on it.

[claphamsa]

Because I couldnt decide. there is a difference between preferring to vote early, and voting early for the sake of it.

i had a reason to vote ealry day 2, turned out not to work, so I unvoted. cest la vie.

just try to keep your railroading on track here pass.

[Passacaglia]

Because I couldnt decide. there is a difference between preferring to vote early, and voting early for the sake of it.

i had a reason to vote ealry day 2, turned out not to work, so I unvoted. cest la vie.

just try to keep your railroading on track here pass.

Why do you keep calling it railroading? What am I 'railroading' you into?

[Lathum]

also, look at the payoff if it worked...PB would be dead, EF would be semi-trusted because he had been criticized, and Lathum would have been able to plead some cock'n bull story about having to vote that way because of his role, which would have been completely impossible to confirm. (which is actually what he is doing right now)

ummm, are you on crack? Lets say I am a wolf.

PB does get lynched, then everyone looks at me as the catalyst, lynches me the next day, then comes to the conclusion that I was protecting EF and lynch him.

Right, would have worked out awesome!

I can't help but think of the people who are trying to get me lynched today their is at least one wolf who is trying to get me killed out of reputation and for fear of the mechanic that was triggered for my role.

If you are so convinced then vote me, but there is zero chance I am lynched today.

[claphamsa]

bah, your attacking me for nothing, trying to make me look suspicious. yet your failing to do a very good job of it. since your not hitting anything legitimate. just vote for me and we can go back to wachign for lathum and schmity to go to town in the other thread

[saldana]

I had an earlier post where I noted that Telle, Jackal, and Lerriuqs were the common names across distrust lists from me, Autumn, and Lathum.

Then DT posts this a little later:


FWIW, this is another point that is drawing me towards Lerriuqs rather than the candidates DT mentioned. I've already suggested that I'm pretty concerned with DT's play, and the fact that he leaves Lerriuqs out of the discussion while bringing up Telle and Jackal struck me as odd.

Hoops, I was leaning towards a lerriuqs vote myself...i dont know anything about him, so it is tough to get a read...that of course is compounded by the fact that he has said next to nothing until his post this morning about not understanding what is going on....that reeks of New Wolf Smell to me

this will probably be enough for me unless i talk myself into lathum

[claphamsa]

ummm, are you on crack? Lets say I am a wolf.

PB does get lynched, then everyone looks at me as the catalyst, lynches me the next day, then comes to the conclusion that I was protecting EF and lynch him.

Right, would have worked out awesome!

I can't help but think of the people who are trying to get me lynched today their is at least one wolf who is trying to get me killed out of reputation and for fear of the mechanic that was triggered for my role.

If you are so convinced then vote me, but there is zero chance I am lynched today.


dun dun dun!

[Lathum]

there is a cunning wolf in this game, isnt there?

you know damn well your mere existence invites a seer scan! (look, and exclamation point:p )

well then you kind of prove the point that I don't need to pull crazy shenanigens to get scanned.

[DaddyTorgo]

idk - was backwards squirrel on all those lists as well?

my head hurts

[saldana]

ummm, are you on crack? Lets say I am a wolf.

PB does get lynched, then everyone looks at me as the catalyst, lynches me the next day, then comes to the conclusion that I was protecting EF and lynch him.

Right, would have worked out awesome!

I can't help but think of the people who are trying to get me lynched today their is at least one wolf who is trying to get me killed out of reputation and for fear of the mechanic that was triggered for my role.

If you are so convinced then vote me, but there is zero chance I am lynched today.

and you had been preparing your defense for PB's death the entire day...you could easily have gotten out of it, and dont pretend you dont think you couldnt...you have gotten out of way worse.

[Lathum]

and you had been preparing your defense for PB's death the entire day...you could easily have gotten out of it, and dont pretend you dont think you couldnt...you have gotten out of way worse.

but again, why?

You and hoops have both said I would be scanned early based on reputation, there were others on the chopping block so why make that play?

If you are so convinced then please, vote me.

[saldana]

well then you kind of prove the point that I don't need to pull crazy shenanigens to get scanned.


but getting scanned by the seer doesnt do you any good against the lynch unless the seer comes to your defense!

a public display that gets you on the trust lists is 10 times better than a seer scan because it is just that. Public.

[saldana]

but again, why?

You and hoops have both said I would be scanned early based on reputation, there were others on the chopping block so why make that play?

If you are so convinced then please, vote me.

see above post

[DaddyTorgo]

and we prefer Hetero Life Mates

as do me and mine

[PurdueBrad]

C'mon guys, you need to post more. I still have the most posts AND the most swear words.

[claphamsa]

C'mon guys, you need to post more. I still have the most posts AND the most swear words.
well, none of us have been on the block for 3 consecutive days :)

[Lathum]

but getting scanned by the seer doesnt do you any good against the lynch unless the seer comes to your defense!

a public display that gets you on the trust lists is 10 times better than a seer scan because it is just that. Public.

do you really think I though my play day 2 would get me on any trust list?

[PurdueBrad]

well, none of us have been on the block for 3 consecutive days :)

Then you aren't trying hard enough.

<-------returns to being dead.

[saldana]

do you really think I though my play day 2 would get me on any trust list?

has anyone voted for you on day 3 or 4 (yet)

[hoopsguy]

And just after PB throws down the posting gauntlet I'm going to have to pull back a little bit. I'm going to have company onsite at my client, which means less latitude to contribute to our merry little discussion.

[claphamsa]

And just after PB throws down the posting gauntlet I'm going to have to pull back a little bit. I'm going to have company onsite at my client, which means less latitude to contribute to our merry little discussion.
boo

[hoopsguy]

Eh - I'll still be active right until that guy arrives. And for some kind of window after work and before deadline. Just not able to respond quite as efficiently as the last couple of days.

[Lathum]

has anyone voted for you on day 3 or 4 (yet)

no, but that has zero to do with my play and everything to do with the fact there are people with far worse voting records, people like you I might add, whose voting record is piss poor.

You are forcing this way to much.

[Danny]

Game Event!!!

The event - Gov. Steelrooster declares that Martian Law has occurred. Tonight, Night 4, no space alien may take an action unless they get a pm from me telling them they can. PMs have already been sent, so if you are a space alien, and you didn't get one, you have to sit tight tonight.

[claphamsa]

lolerskates

[hoopsguy]

No wonder we are all nuts with a moderator like this guy.

[Abe Sargent]

Wow

[claphamsa]

wow what?

[Passacaglia]

bah, your attacking me for nothing, trying to make me look suspicious. yet your failing to do a very good job of it. since your not hitting anything legitimate. just vote for me and we can go back to wachign for lathum and schmity to go to town in the other thread

I'm not attacking you. I'm just asking you questions. You're the one getting defensive about it, to the point where you've voted me. What makes you think I'm a wolf?

[claphamsa]

The fact that you are harping on me endlessly about nothing.... ur lathuming me :)

[Autumn]

I'm not so sure it is.

I think it was pretty clear EF was going to either be voted off or scanned very soon, what better way to buy trust then get in early on that sweet, sweet action.

It's what I would do. I think we would be making a huge mistake if we assumed there were no wolves voting for EF.

Voting for him, at least early in the day, may have been a Needie risk that was worth it. I dobut that any voted for him late when they had a perfectly viable villager running mate though.

And while voting for him might have been worth it, building the case against him in the morning when nobody was considering voting him would definitely not be worth it. I don't think there was any sense that EF was destined to be lynched or scanned at that point.

[Passacaglia]

The fact that you are harping on me endlessly about nothing.... ur lathuming me :)

Again, I'm not harping. I'm just asking questions. For example, the most recent question you ignored is the one where I asked what it is that makes you think I'm a wolf. Why does my asking you questions upset you so much?

[claphamsa]

? well you asked why i thought you were a wolf, and I answered that you are lathuming me, for no reason. were you asking me legit questions it would be a differnt story, but your just bla bla blaing.

[Passacaglia]

? well you asked why i thought you were a wolf, and I answered that you are lathuming me, for no reason. were you asking me legit questions it would be a differnt story, but your just bla bla blaing.

What makes a question not "legit"? And I know that lathuming is a fun buzzword and all that, but can you be a little more specific about what it is you're accusing me of doing? Because what I recall as 'lathuming' is a lot different from what I'm doing.

[Danny]

Yay! I just finished my last assignment for the semester. A take home case study final. Had to come up with a program of interventions and instructional strategies for specific cases. Now I am off for a whole week before the next session starts :rolleyes:

Also, I will be going out of town on Saturday morning until Tuesday evening. This means, the Friday deadline will be that night and that I will not be around to answer questions / entertain all of you on Tuesday. I will be back to process the deadline, though it might be a little late.

[Passacaglia]

The fact that you are harping on me endlessly about nothing.... ur lathuming me :)

Oh, I get it. This was supposed to be an answer to my question of why you thought I was a wolf. I get it. So if I'm "lathuming" you, even though I don't think I've done anything of the sort, why am I doing it to you, right now? Are there candidates out there I'm trying to save? Does anyone even have any votes on them?

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2143:

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
2 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)

[Autumn]

Why does my asking you questions upset you so much?

I thought Danny was the therapist? :p

[Danny]

A good therapist asks as few questions as necessary!

[claphamsa]

Oh, I get it. This was supposed to be an answer to my question of why you thought I was a wolf. I get it. So if I'm "lathuming" you, even though I don't think I've done anything of the sort, why am I doing it to you, right now? Are there candidates out there I'm trying to save? Does anyone even have any votes on them?
harping endlessly about meaningless things. is that detailed enouhg for you? :P

[Passacaglia]

harping endlessly about meaningless things. is that detailed enouhg for you? :P

Either you're simply trying to use "lathuming" as a generic insult, or you just don't know what it means. Anyway, why would "harping endlessly about meaningless things" make someone a wolf? And why do you consider the way people vote to be meaningless?

[DaddyTorgo]

so we should look for people who voted early on EF and didn't provide a reason OR people who voted late on PB

and we should cross-reference that with the other day's results...

[Autumn]

I think we should only look at early EF voters if they weren't around later. Not that I'm sure if we can figure that out, but I can't see a wolf leaving their vote there the way the voting turned out.

[DaddyTorgo]

easy enuf to look for early voters who didn't change and then look back to see if they were around or challenge them...

[DaddyTorgo]

or wait - i guess we'd look for ones that did change, or early voters that weren't active that day.

[Telle]

I think we should only look at early EF voters if they weren't around later. Not that I'm sure if we can figure that out, but I can't see a wolf leaving their vote there the way the voting turned out.

Well, you were an early EF vote. Were you around later?

And how about you, DT, since you're in the thread atm.

[Passacaglia]

so we should look for people who voted early on EF and didn't provide a reason OR people who voted late on PB

and we should cross-reference that with the other day's results...

Are you talking about Day 2? The early voters on EF were saldana, MartinD, and PackerFanatic -- maybe me and PB? And I don't think there really are late votes on PB.

[Passacaglia]

Well, you were an early EF vote. Were you around later?

And how about you, DT, since you're in the thread atm.

Thanks, I missed Alan and Autumn. hoops's vote guide just calls him a '2nd candidate'

[Passacaglia]

And if we're looking at the people who voted on EF early and moved it later, you're probably looking at saldana and me.

[Passacaglia]

Thanks, I missed Alan and Autumn. hoops's vote guide just calls him a '2nd candidate'

Grr, I missed DT, too. Stupid hoops and his use of flavor instead of just the facts.

[saldana]

no, but that has zero to do with my play and everything to do with the fact there are people with far worse voting records, people like you I might add, whose voting record is piss poor.

You are forcing this way to much.

i hardly think i am forcing anything...go back and look at my first post on this topic...i said i am not even sure i buy my own theory...the fact that you are getting so bent about it when i havent even voted for you (in fact i have said i will probably not be voting for you) is doing nothing but drawing attention to yourself, and making me wonder if i might have stumbled onto something.

[dubb93]

Catching up, looks like I got 4 pages to get through.

[saldana]

vote lerriuqs or whatever the heck his name is.

[DaddyTorgo]

how about me?

[Passacaglia]

i hardly think i am forcing anything...go back and look at my first post on this topic...i said i am not even sure i buy my own theory...the fact that you are getting so bent about it when i havent even voted for you (in fact i have said i will probably not be voting for you) is doing nothing but drawing attention to yourself, and making me wonder if i might have stumbled onto something.

That sounds familiar.

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2162:

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
3 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), Saldana (2160)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)

[Autumn]

Well, you were an early EF vote. Were you around later?

And how about you, DT, since you're in the thread atm.

I certainly was on off and on all day, and it only confirmed my early suspicions and votes.

I really think we've got better hunting looking at the PurdueBrad voters. With EagleFan on the chopping block all day, but having a viable alternate candidate, how would the wolves not have flooded that vote?

[hoopsguy]

Autumn, I think you are right that there are likely to be more wolves on EF than on PB. I'll be pretty surprised if it is all/none, but percentages would suggest that they would want to save their own.

Do you feel that someone has hijacked the conversation away from this? I haven't been in the thread as much over the past hour, but from what I can tell on the votes it seems like people are still looking at PB voters from Day 2 overall.

[Passacaglia]

What do you guys think of Poli?

1199 - Poli votes PB (misses chance to vote for known wolf, puts PB in lead, but will move again at deadline)
1261 - Poli unvotes PB, follows on Telle (2nd vote change, neither on EF, but unvote on PB puts EF at more risk)
1318 - Poli unvotes Telle, votes EF (deadline snipe, probably open for interpreation)

If I recall, that 1318 vote was right at deadline, to 'make sure' that EF was lynched, but the wolves probably knew he was out anyway. Could it be that the run on Telle gave him some cover to switch votes, when a switch from PB to EF would have been looked at as strange otherwise? Also of interest is that Poli's was the only vote actually removed from PB as a result of the Telle run. Participating was:

Pass -- forgets to unvote EF, keeping his vote there
PB -- unvotes EF
Poli -- unvotes PB, but then votes EF at the very end
BK -- unvotes hoops (he voted for hoops after the Telle run started, if that means anything)
clap -- had not placed vote yet (of course, discussing clap's voting pattern is meaningless)

[DaddyTorgo]

so i guess we look at voters for PB once PB had passed EF in the voting by 2 votes? because i don't think a wolf would have been the one to put PB up over EF, but after that happened they could have hopped onto PB

[DaddyTorgo]

so leaving out the last say...5-10 minutes (depending on how many votes were laid down for the first time there and how much of that was switching -- we can examine that 5-10 mins later though), who were the people who put votes on PB once PB had at least a one-vote lead on EF?

[Passacaglia]

so i guess we look at voters for PB once PB had passed EF in the voting by 2 votes? because i don't think a wolf would have been the one to put PB up over EF, but after that happened they could have hopped onto PB

Didn't PB pass EF in the voting right away?

[Autumn]

I definitely am not sure about the Poli vote. It was icing on the cake, so could be a wolf ploy. But they couldn't really know if there would be any more movement, so seems rather risky.

[DaddyTorgo]

idk - i don't have a vote history up and handy

i prefer to think on the more theoretical level and let someone else do the dirty work. i'm a thinker, not a doer.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry, I thought you were saying it like you remembered what happened.


810 - DT follows Lathum on PB (2nd vote, important because DT is suggesting that he deserves significant credit for his early vote on EF)
846/875 - both Clap and Dubb unvote PB, bringing the margin back down from 5-0 to 3-0
951 - Alan throws out 2nd candidate, who turns out to be a wolf
969 - Autumn backs Alan on 2nd candidate
971 - DT changes horses, tying it back up 3-3
985 - BK votes me, introducing 3rd candidate (more noteworthy because he had a bad vote the previous day, not his last vote on this day)
1016 - Pass follows BK on me (same logic as BK, 2nd bad vote for him, not his last vote)
1017 - PB follows on me (once again foregoing an opportunity to vote for EF, tally is now 4-3-2 EF/Me/PB)
1020 - Telle votes PB (locked in)
1045 - Abe votes PB (locked in, 2nd day in a row he not voted for wolf when wolf was in lead)
1047/1050 - Jackal votes for wolf EF, then switches to PB (locked in)
1080 - Saldana votes EF (ties it, but will move his vote later)
1112 - MartinD votes EF (breaks tie, vote doesn't move. big vote, in my mind)
1120 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes PB (again missing a chance to vote for a known wolf, not done moving yet)
1123 - PF votes EF (see MartinD above)
1137 - Lerriuqs votes PB (ties it again)
1157 - Pass unvotes Hoops, votes EF (puts wolf in lead, would be huge vote except for #1256)
1166 - Chief votes PB, ties it (changing gears from yesterday, hard for me to condemn it too much when his voting pattern matches my own)
1169 - PB unvotes me, votes EF (self-defense, good vote)
1194 - Saldana unvotes EF, votes me (tying it up, not a good vote at all, he stays here for duration)
1199 - Poli votes PB (misses chance to vote for known wolf, puts PB in lead, but will move again at deadline)
1256 - Pass forgets to unvotes, casts vote for Telle (important because his vote was on EF, which was critical down the stretch but it does not seem he wanted his vote there)
1258 - PB unvotes EF, votes Telle (puts himself up 2, Telle is way back)
1261 - Poli unvotes PB, follows on Telle (2nd vote change, neither on EF, but unvote on PB puts EF at more risk)
1265 - BK is back to voting for me, unvoting EF (still has not voted for EF in the game, although this unvote ties it)
1285 - Clap votes Telle (Telle is now 3 back of co-leaders)
1291 - BK unvotes me, votes Telle (fast rising candidate, again missing a chance to put in a really good vote on EF)
1315 - PB unvotes Telle, votes EF (complete self-preservation)
1318 - Poli unvotes Telle, votes EF (deadline snipe, probably open for interpreation)

[Autumn]

Autumn, I think you are right that there are likely to be more wolves on EF than on PB. I'll be pretty surprised if it is all/none, but percentages would suggest that they would want to save their own.

Do you feel that someone has hijacked the conversation away from this? I haven't been in the thread as much over the past hour, but from what I can tell on the votes it seems like people are still looking at PB voters from Day 2 overall.

I'd have to look back to see how the conversation is getting steered. I was responding to Telle who seemed to be suggesting that. Lathum mentioned a wolf possibly being among EF voters. And the rest of the day there has been some discussion of new targets. I definitely expect the wolves to encourage that but it seems clear the villagers should stick on EF voters for now. We must have at least three wolves among that crowd and looking else where would be a needless distraction.

[Passacaglia]

It sounds like the people that fit your criteria are DT, hoops, clap, and dubb.

[dubb93]

Lerriuqs lack of action is troublesome. Just did a search for his posts in this thread to see what the action on him was all about. He only has a total of 6 posts that met my search results since the game has actually started. That is crazy.

[DaddyTorgo]

846/875 - both Clap and Dubb unvote PB, bringing the margin back down from 5-0 to 3-0

--looks good for these 2

951 - Alan throws out 2nd candidate, who turns out to be a wolf
969 - Autumn backs Alan on 2nd candidate
971 - DT changes horses, tying it back up 3-3

--looks good for these 3 as well. No way I tie it up 3-3 so early in the day there if I'm a wolf. If I was a wolf I'd have to go PB and make it 4-2 and try to swing the momentum, otherwise I risk being trapped on that vote all day because it was so early and so visible.

985 - BK votes me, introducing 3rd candidate (more noteworthy because he had a bad vote the previous day, not his last vote on this day)
1016 - Pass follows BK on me (same logic as BK, 2nd bad vote for him, not his last vote)
1017 - PB follows on me (once again foregoing an opportunity to vote for EF, tally is now 4-3-2 EF/Me/PB)

--These were just all weird votes.

1120 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes PB (again missing a chance to vote for a known wolf, not done moving yet)

--This was like the height of weird if you ask me. BK looks very bad.


The stuff closer to deadline than that is making my head spin.

[dubb93]

Sorry, I thought you were saying it like you remembered what happened.

Pass, that list is a fail. I unvoted PB in post 1002 (making it EF 3 - PB2), not 874/875 with Clap. It also leaves out my vote in post 1014 which made it EF 4 - PB 2.

[DaddyTorgo]

backwards squirrel rocketing up the charts - only 6 posts?

[DaddyTorgo]

it's cool dubb - don't think you're high on my list of potential baddies anyways

[Passacaglia]

so i guess we look at voters for PB once PB had passed EF in the voting by 2 votes? because i don't think a wolf would have been the one to put PB up over EF, but after that happened they could have hopped onto PB

Here's what DT asked for. Did I give him something different than that?

[Passacaglia]

Pass, that list is a fail. I unvoted PB in post 1002 (making it EF 3 - PB2), not 874/875 with Clap. It also leaves out my vote in post 1014 which made it EF 4 - PB 2.

I guess you'll have to take it up with hoops, since he made the list.

[dubb93]

backwards squirrel rocketing up the charts - only 6 posts?

Since the game started yes. He had one more actually signing up for the game but it didn't meet my search.

[dubb93]

I guess you'll have to take it up with hoops, since he made the list.

That makes me wonder what exactly hoops is doing with all of these lists.

[dubb93]

This is the second time this game that hoops has done this shit to me. The first time was on day two when he misquoted me, now he messes up my post numbers, tries to lump me in with Clap and leaves out my vote for EF in a list.

Vote Hoops

[Lathum]

i hardly think i am forcing anything...go back and look at my first post on this topic...i said i am not even sure i buy my own theory...the fact that you are getting so bent about it when i havent even voted for you (in fact i have said i will probably not be voting for you) is doing nothing but drawing attention to yourself, and making me wonder if i might have stumbled onto something.

you have harped all day on it. You mentioned you think a smart wolf is pulling some strings, you certainly fall under that catergory as well.

Not really sure how I am getting bent, I am merely responding to your claims, but if you feel the need to vote me please by all means do, your voting record stinks already, why stop now?

[Lathum]

Lerriuqs lack of action is troublesome. Just did a search for his posts in this thread to see what the action on him was all about. He only has a total of 6 posts that met my search results since the game has actually started. That is crazy.

wow.

I can get behind a vote for him considering a quite villager doesn't really help us much.

[Lathum]

Autumn, I think you are right that there are likely to be more wolves on EF than on PB. I'll be pretty surprised if it is all/none, but percentages would suggest that they would want to save their own.

Do you feel that someone has hijacked the conversation away from this? I haven't been in the thread as much over the past hour, but from what I can tell on the votes it seems like people are still looking at PB voters from Day 2 overall.

Saldana is trying to.

[Abe Sargent]

Getting cauight up

[Abe Sargent]

I agree that on day 4, to not even have your post number in the double digits is troubling.

Vote lerriuqs

[Passacaglia]

Autumn, I think you are right that there are likely to be more wolves on EF than on PB. I'll be pretty surprised if it is all/none, but percentages would suggest that they would want to save their own.

Do you feel that someone has hijacked the conversation away from this? I haven't been in the thread as much over the past hour, but from what I can tell on the votes it seems like people are still looking at PB voters from Day 2 overall.

What's the problem with "hijacking" the conversation away from the fact that there neither all nor none of the wolves are on EF? Since some are there, and some are not, I don't think this line of thinking helps us -- and asking who is hijacking us away from it makes me think you're trying to get us to focus on it in an attempt to keep us confused.


VOTE HOOPSGUY

[MartinD]

Lerriuqs lack of action is troublesome. Just did a search for his posts in this thread to see what the action on him was all about. He only has a total of 6 posts that met my search results since the game has actually started. That is crazy.

I'm not exactly one to talk, as my post count isn't all that much higher, but lerriuqs does seem to have been abnormally quiet during this game.

I'm not going to put my vote his way now, but I'm definitely leaning that way unless either he comes on with a good reason/explanation, or there's a very good reason for me to vote for someone else.

[DaddyTorgo]

but you're also in Scotland Martin - so you get a pass because we assume you're out drinking and eating haggis 24/7 and just can't be bothered to post. which is cool.

[dubb93]

but you're also in Scotland Martin - so you get a pass because we assume you're out drinking and eating haggis 24/7 and just can't be bothered to post. which is cool.

+1

[Lathum]

Part of me is wondering if Hoops and Saldana introduced the line of questioning about me to distract us from other candidates.

They both know I would respond to them, maybe in a, passionate, way.

[MartinD]

but you're also in Scotland Martin - so you get a pass because we assume you're out drinking and eating haggis 24/7 and just can't be bothered to post. which is cool.

I don't drink and don't like haggis - would I be right in thinking that this means I'm going to get lynched? ;) :lol:

[claphamsa]

u dont drink?

[Lathum]

hmmm

I thought MartinD was this guy

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4899/huntern.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huntern.jpg)











but he is really this guy

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5365/bryantartan.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bryantartan.jpg)

[MartinD]

u dont drink?

No - saw too many people make a complete fool of themselves one night then be too hung over to do anything the next day when I was in my late teens/early twenties to think that it was something I wanted to do.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm

I thought MartinD was this guy

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4899/huntern.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huntern.jpg)











but he is really this guy

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5365/bryantartan.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bryantartan.jpg)

HAHAHAHA :D

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't drink and don't like haggis - would I be right in thinking that this means I'm going to get lynched? ;) :lol:

Never had haggis and probably never would be able to stomach it so i can't say i blame you there, but on behalf of my scottish side (grandma was 100% graham), I am saddened by this.

[MartinD]

hmmm

I thought MartinD was this guy

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4899/huntern.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huntern.jpg)











but he is really this guy

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5365/bryantartan.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bryantartan.jpg)

Neither is particularly close to the mark - even though it's the national dress, I have never worn a kilt, and have no intention of wearing one in the future.

(I'm really not doing my reputation as a proud Scot any good here, am I? :lol: )

[DaddyTorgo]

Neither is particularly close to the mark - even though it's the national dress, I have never worn a kilt, and have no intention of wearing one in the future.

(I'm really not doing my reputation as a proud Scot any good here, am I? :lol: )

lol - nope! you fail!!!

VOTE MARTIND

[DaddyTorgo]

okay okay

UNVOTE MARTIN D

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, I've had those posts up for four days now. I'm sorry if there are any errors in them (I'm not going to have time to look now but will later) but I think I've been very consistent in saying that you are among the most trusted villagers in the game based on your two votes for EF on Days 1 and 2. I'm definitely not guilty of trying to do anything to sabotage your credibility.

Pass - I think Autumn's plan of attack (look at the PB voters from D2) and if you don't like the way I worded it then I don't know what to tell you. I also don't have time right now for 20 questions on why I feel this way but I think my posts have been pretty consistent in explaining my viewpoint.

[Passacaglia]

Dubb, I've had those posts up for four days now. I'm sorry if there are any errors in them (I'm not going to have time to look now but will later) but I think I've been very consistent in saying that you are among the most trusted villagers in the game based on your two votes for EF on Days 1 and 2. I'm definitely not guilty of trying to do anything to sabotage your credibility.

Pass - I think Autumn's plan of attack (look at the PB voters from D2) and if you don't like the way I worded it then I don't know what to tell you. I also don't have time right now for 20 questions on why I feel this way but I think my posts have been pretty consistent in explaining my viewpoint.

You think Autumn's plan of attack.....what? I'm taking the rest of your post to mean that you DO have time for 19 questions, of which my previous sentence was one.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol i think he meant to say that that was the best way to go

[Passacaglia]

lol i think he meant to say that that was the best way to go

Thanks. Since DT answered it, I withdraw the question, and still have 19 left.

[Passacaglia]

Anyway, talk about bass ack wards. I see the strategy here, but....uh...EF was the wolf, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah...not sure why we'd look harder at EF (who was the wolf and ended up with MORE votes on him) then at PB who ended up with fewer votes on him. That part to me doesn't make any sense - like the people advancing that strategy want us to have a lower % chance of catching a wolf...

[Danny]

I have never heard of haggis, but it looks interesting. I'd try it.

[hoopsguy]

No, Autumn is saying to look at the PB voters today. To ignore the EF voters and look at the PB ones from Day 2.

Anyone looking at the EF voters today is distracting people from the side of the vote that probably contains more wolves.

And I'm backing that plan knowing that I'm on the wrong side of the vote on Day 2.

I (mostly) was not trying to be a smartass on the 20 questions thing. I'll be lucky to have 10 minutes in the thread over the next couple of hours.

[Passacaglia]

No, Autumn is saying to look at the PB voters today. To ignore the EF voters and look at the PB ones from Day 2.

Anyone looking at the EF voters today is distracting people from the side of the vote that probably contains more wolves.

And I'm backing that plan knowing that I'm on the wrong side of the vote on Day 2.

I (mostly) was not trying to be a smartass on the 20 questions thing. I'll be lucky to have 10 minutes in the thread over the next couple of hours.

What do you mean, look at the PB voters today -- what other day would we look at them? And really, that use of the word distracting is worrisome from you. You're definitely one of the drivers in this game so far, and to come out with a word like that, as if this is the only thing we should be talking about, just doesn't jive.

I didn't think you were being a smartass on the 20 questions thing -- well, I did, but in a good way -- I just thought you were giving a shout-out to the grilling of clap, but just letting me know that you don't have time. And that's cool -- no one is ever under any obligation to respond, I just kept grilling clap because he was here to chat, but just felt like discussing his vote was meaningless.

[Telle]

Votes as of post #2212

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
4 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), saldana (2160), Abe (2189)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)
2 - hoopsguy - dubb (2184), Passacaglia (2190)

[DaddyTorgo]

Ouch - I'm a bad salesman...that guy just raked me over the coals on the phone.

"c'mon...you do this all day...you can do better than that."

[Passacaglia]

So I've got 18 questions left:


1112 - MartinD votes EF (breaks tie, vote doesn't move. big vote, in my mind)
1120 - BK unvotes Hoops, votes PB (again missing a chance to vote for a known wolf, not done moving yet)
1123 - PF votes EF (see MartinD above)
1137 - Lerriuqs votes PB (ties it again)


So MartinD's vote was big, but lerriuqs's vote was not? FTR, lerriuqs's vote does not move, either, but you don't mention that. Also FTR, dubb, I don't believe that his mislabeling your vote, and forgetting to chalk up your EF vote later was intentional -- if hoops is going to be sneaky, I think he's more likely to sneakily lead us with his comments, rather than just get the record wrong on purpose.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I'm voting Lerriuqs! Obviously I think that was significant and I have that called out in my player-by-player review posts (version 2 - the detailed one) from Friday afternoon.

I think MartinD and PF both had very good votes, which is why I have them (along with Dubb and Autumn) as my most trusted villagers in the list I published either late Friday or Saturday.

[Passacaglia]

Oh geez, I don't know what I was thinking -- when I made that post, I was sure MartinD and lerriuqs had both voted for EF. Oh well. How many questions do I get docked for that one?

[hoopsguy]

Pass is correct - I have yet to play a game where I've messed with the vote totals, posts, whatever in an attempt to mislead people. I may make a mistake here and there with a post # or recording the info but there is never malicious intent in terms of shaping the game as a wolf.

Who knows if I would do it in the future? I don't think I would because until the very, very endgame because the risk most likely does not outweigh the reward.

[hoopsguy]

Oh geez, I don't know what I was thinking -- when I made that post, I was sure MartinD and lerriuqs had both voted for EF. Oh well. How many questions do I get docked for that one?

One thing that I would ask - you have quoted the "record of the posts" stuff but not my analysis posts (player by player) that immediately follow. I think the analysis posts have a lot more meat to them and serve as a better barometer for my feelings on players.

By all means, reference the posts stuff (better for universal timeline) but if you are asking questions about how I feel on people I think you might find that I've answered some/many of the questions already in the "version 2" analysis post.

I'll dig up the post when I get home tonight, but that won't happen for a few hours. I think I posted it somewhere around 3PM CST on Friday of last week, give or take an hour ...

[Passacaglia]

One thing that I would ask - you have quoted the "record of the posts" stuff but not my analysis posts (player by player) that immediately follow. I think the analysis posts have a lot more meat to them and serve as a better barometer for my feelings on players.

By all means, reference the posts stuff (better for universal timeline) but if you are asking questions about how I feel on people I think you might find that I've answered some/many of the questions already in the "version 2" analysis post.

I'll dig up the post when I get home tonight, but that won't happen for a few hours. I think I posted it somewhere around 3PM CST on Friday of last week, give or take an hour ...

I wouldn't say I'm specifically looking for your feelings on people. I just happen to have the post record pasted into an open text file here, so it's more handy. And since your comments are thrown in there, I get to read them a lot.

[Passacaglia]

I guess what I should say is that I'm looking at what you might be trying to "inject" into the discussion -- the post record has comments from you, that are taken a little more "as law" then what your feelings on players are.

[hoopsguy]

Here is the more advanced version of vote analysis from the first two days, based on my interpretations:

1. Claphamsa D1: PackerFanatic D2: Telle Unvotes: PB (D2 early) Timing: throwaway vote late D2 (Telle five back, inside of last 20-30 minutes) rather than voting one of lead dogs.

2. EagleFan - Evil Information Collector, Lynched Day 2

3. Barkeep D1: NTN D2: Telle Unvotes: Hoops (D2), PB (D2 late) Timing: PB move in last hour, moving vote from 8-7 PB to 7-7 PB/EF. This is marginally better than I recall last night, as it indirectly increased pressure on EF.

4. The Jackal D1: NTN D2: PB Unvotes: EF Timing: middle of D3, changes to PB 3 posts later and margin goes from 5EF - 4PB to 4EF - 5PB. He looks worse now than I recalled last night with no end votes on EF and an unvote on EF yesterday.

5. Abe D1: NTN D2: PB Unvotes: None Timing: D2 vote tied up PB with EF at 4-4. Links himself through trust to BK at least twice in thread.

6. PackerFanatic D1: NTN D2: EF Unvotes: Lerriuqs (D1) Timing: no real meaning to discern from D1 vote change. D2 vote on EF was meaningful (7-6 margin).

7. Hoopsguy D1: EF D2: PB Unvotes: None Timing: both pretty early votes, no moves to save EF on D1, no moves to hang EF on D2.

8. PurdueBrad D1: NTN D2: EF Unvotes: Hoops (D1, D2), EF (D1, D2), NTN (D1), Telle (D1) Timing: all kind of late vote changes, not always optimal for survival until last five minutes. Can certainly make a case that he was trying to help EF based on D1 NTN late call and D2 late movement away from EF to anyone offered as an option

9. Lathum D1: EF D2: PB Unvotes: Poli (D1), Abe (D1) Timing: pretty insignificant vote moves, early in day. Erratic play on D2 hard to understand, but suggests alternate win conditions

10. Martin D D1: PB D2: EF Unvotes: None Timing: D2 vote on EF was meaningful.

11. Poli D1: Abe D2: EF Unvotes: Lathum (D1), Telle (D1, D2), PB (D2) Timing: had multiple chances to put vote on EF on Day 2, did not until very end of day. This looks like one of the worst voting records of the people who have an EF final vote to their name.

12. Passacaglia D1: NTN D2: EF Unvotes: Lerriuqs (D1), Hoops (D1 + D2), EF (D2 - sort of) Timing; NTN votes on D1 tied it back up at 4-4 (he had voted No Lynch, then put vote back where it was when learning it was not a good option). His EF vote on D2 is muted by the fact that he illegally attempted to move his vote, failing to unvote when casting a vote for Telle. Another one of the weaker voting records with a EF vote to their name.

13. Lerriuqs D1: Pass D2: no vote Unvotes: None Timing: Day 2 vote on PB tied it at 7-7, not a good vote based on current information. Day 1 vote cast early, never revisited.

14. Dubb93 D1: EF D2: EF Unvotes: Saldana (D1), PB (D2) Timing: both unvotes came pretty early, both votes on EF were meaningful based on timing, no unvotes down stretch to help EF either time. Very good vote history.

15. Autumn D1: Telle D2: EF Unvotes: PB (D1) Timing: D2 vote on EF is strong, helping create two man race with PB. D1 unvote was very PB-friendly, moving him out of 2 vote lead to throw vote on distant candidate. One of drivers of potential 3rd candidate on Day 1.

16. Chief Rum D1: EF D2: PB Unvotes: None Timing: D1 vote was a big one against EF, D2 vote was a big one for EF. Has floated a couple of theories this game that have been dubious (EF/NTN voters with one wolf each early on, wolves would not block their own which was false on D2)

17. NTNDeacon - The Talker, Lynched Day 1

18. Telle D1: PB D2: PB Unvotes: Abe (D1) Timing: 2nd driver (w/Autumn) of 3rd candidate on D1 when there was a wolf in the mix. No good votes to help cause. Her votes have been early enough to not be magnified.

19. DaddyTorgo D1: no vote D2: EF Unvotes: PB (D2) Timing: Vote change on D2 looks good, but felt like he was looking for excessive credit for doing so when others were initial movers and shakers on EF.

20. AlanT - The Arbitrator, Night kill Day 2

21. Saldana D1: Dubb D2: Hoops Unvotes: EF (D2) Timing: pretty late unvote on EF brought race back to an 8-8 tie. D1 vote was more or less throwaway on likely villager.

I reserve the right to have made minor changes to my thought process between Friday afternoon and now, but here is the post.

[PackerFanatic]

It would be quite hypocritical of me to vote for Lerriuqs for being UTR, wouldn't it? Haha...I should be back before deadline to catch up and put a vote in.

[Abe Sargent]

I have never heard of haggis, but it looks interesting. I'd try it.

You are a sick man

[MartinD]

You are a sick man

Haggis isn't all that bad - is just what it's made of and what it comes in that people have problems with. (While I don't like haggis, it's not a 'wouldn't eat it if you put a gun to my head'-type of dislike - more 'would prefer something else, but will eat it if there isn't a better option'.)

[MartinD]

This is where, in an ideal world, I would put my vote on lerriuqs and give him a chance to explain himself. Unfortunately, it's not an ideal world - I'm signing off for the night in the next half-hour or so, and I probably won't be around to switch my vote if lerriuqs turns up.

I'll have a look through recent posts to see if I can come up with a better candidate, but will vote for lerriuqs if I can't see another option.

[hoopsguy]

OK, my company has left for the day which means that I once again have (nearly) unfettered access to the thread.

Time to see where the votes sit right now.

[lerriuqs]

VOTE Hoops

I need the self-preservation vote...

I discussed my voting pattern and lack of posting a day or so ago. I've nothing to add now other than if you lynch me, you get a villager. I'm not going to fight it.

[The Jackal]

I've got class tonight that's going to keep me out from 6-9 or thereabouts. I'm not positive about this vote but I've been following the thread today and I feel good about it for now; hopefully I'm not missing out on some great info in the next couple hours.

VOTE LERRIUQS

[The Jackal]

I'll be around for the next half hour if anyone wants to sum up the case against hoops or telle, I've been busy and skimmed a bit of the thread.

[saldana]

you have harped all day on it. You mentioned you think a smart wolf is pulling some strings, you certainly fall under that catergory as well.

Not really sure how I am getting bent, I am merely responding to your claims, but if you feel the need to vote me please by all means do, your voting record stinks already, why stop now?


exaggerate much...i was in the thread for an hour during my lunch, and popped back for 10 minutes...you have a strange definition of all day

go "lathum" all over someone else, because your crap really isnt going to work the same way on me

[saldana]

I need the self-preservation vote...

I discussed my voting pattern and lack of posting a day or so ago. I've nothing to add now other than if you lynch me, you get a villager. I'm not going to fight it.


see heres the thing about being new to the game...we all were once, so we do understand the confusion that comes with this...but if you are confused, ask questions, and people will help you...i realize it was somewhat tounge in cheek, but on day one when someone (telle i think) asked for a summation of what acceptable day one voting strategies were, someone actually wrote up a list. just sitting back and not saying anything is more of a hinderance than help

[hoopsguy]

I understand the Lerriuqs votes. I guess I can sort of understand the Dubb vote, as misguided as it is. But the Pass vote is all kinds of strange to me.

Look, we are significantly reducing our chances of getting a wolf today by putting me in harms way here. I know that this is a pretty empy claim that any villager can make, but I'm just puzzled by people's willingness to continue throwing me into the mix when there are numerous players whose voting records are really suspect. It is a low value play.

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2231

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
5 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), saldana (2160), Abe (2189), The Jackal (2228)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)
3 - hoopsguy - dubb (2184), Passacaglia (2190), Lerriuqs (2229)

Yet to Vote - MartinD, DaddyTorgo, PackerFanatic, Chief Rum, Lathum and Telle

[The Jackal]

What is the case against you, hoops? Stemming from voting on PB?

[lerriuqs]

see heres the thing about being new to the game...we all were once, so we do understand the confusion that comes with this...but if you are confused, ask questions, and people will help you...i realize it was somewhat tounge in cheek, but on day one when someone (telle i think) asked for a summation of what acceptable day one voting strategies were, someone actually wrote up a list. just sitting back and not saying anything is more of a hinderance than help

Thanks but I don't need a lecture and I'm not confused about anything going on. You're not killing a wolf by killing me...You'll see.

[hoopsguy]

When looking at the "not voted" it doesn't seem likely that Lathum will be casting his vote today. So that really leaves five non-votes at this point.

[MartinD]

VOTE LERRIUQS

I may well be voting for a villager, but his lack of activity doesn't feel right to me.

[Danny]

When looking at the "not voted" it doesn't seem likely that Lathum will be casting his vote today. So that really leaves five non-votes at this point.

But by putting his name there, I can taunt him more.

[hoopsguy]

What is the case against you, hoops? Stemming from voting on PB?

Not that I can tell - best I can figure, people think I'm leading them down bad paths. I haven't heard the criticism being very vote-centric.

[The Jackal]

Not that I can tell - best I can figure, people think I'm leading them down bad paths. I haven't heard the criticism being very vote-centric.

Hrm. I don't have enough trust in the people voting for you to make that kind of move before I leave, so I think I'll stay put. Hopefully this vote ends up positively for us.

[saldana]

Thanks but I don't need a lecture and I'm not confused about anything going on. You're not killing a wolf by killing me...You'll see.

sorry..didnt mean to come off preachy with the lecture feel...was just trying to explain my vote.

[lerriuqs]

sorry..didnt mean to come off preachy with the lecture feel...was just trying to explain my vote.

S'ok. :)

[Danny]

Votes as of post #2243

1 - Telle - Poli (1981)
6 - Lerriuqs - Autumn (2021), hoopsguy (2057), saldana (2160), Abe (2189), The Jackal (2228), Martin D (2238)
1 - Passacaglia - claphamsa (2087)
3 - hoopsguy - dubb (2184), Passacaglia (2190), Lerriuqs (2229)

Yet to Vote - DaddyTorgo, PackerFanatic, Chief Rum, and Telle

[Poli]

I have about an hour till I head out for the night. I'm very disappointed in what I'm seeing over the last 6 hours, though.

I could vote for Telle or Jackal rather easily, even saldana for his voting record. Hoops I don't like, but is it really coming down to hoops or licorice (I kid with the name, of course)? Why the heck are we letting telle off the ledge?

A lot of finger pointing going on here and I'm fairly frustrated and disappointed. I think just about everyone still in the game outside of dubb and chief rum have been mentioned as suspect.

Then again, it's my birthday and I've been rather pissy about just about everything today. It's a personal issue so I'll set it aside.

I'll admit that I really wanted telle to be lynched instead of eaglefan the other day, but I saw that role reveal/non-role reveal (depends on how you look at it), and it smelled of manure. I figured anything might happen. It certainly bit us in the butt last game.

Going down that path, it actually reminds me that I kind of liked hoops early on when he mentioned his "logic" for voting for eaglefan. Could it have been staged? Maybe, but I doubt it.

[dubb93]

I understand the Lerriuqs votes. I guess I can sort of understand the Dubb vote, as misguided as it is. But the Pass vote is all kinds of strange to me.

Look, we are significantly reducing our chances of getting a wolf today by putting me in harms way here. I know that this is a pretty empy claim that any villager can make, but I'm just puzzled by people's willingness to continue throwing me into the mix when there are numerous players whose voting records are really suspect. It is a low value play.

Hoops all I can say is that I must have missed it the first time it was posted b/c when I read it when Pass posted it it REALLY pissed me off. I said my peace and left still pissed off. I've cooled down now.

As for my vote, I may be willing to move it to Saldana, but I just don't like the voters on Lerriuqs enough to vote that way. He's been UTR, and he seems like he is unwilling to defend himself here except with a vote, but the names as voters on him with the exception of Autumn and Abe aren't exactly the most trustworthy bunch.

Pass would be an interesting vote alternative as well.

[Poli]

GAME EVENT - The Happy Birthday Poli!!!!!!!!
I mentioned it in my PM, but thanks dude. Sort of.

[lerriuqs]

Unvote Hoops

Vote Lerriuqs

If this is what the group wants. Why should I argue?

[Passacaglia]

I understand the Lerriuqs votes. I guess I can sort of understand the Dubb vote, as misguided as it is. But the Pass vote is all kinds of strange to me.

Look, we are significantly reducing our chances of getting a wolf today by putting me in harms way here. I know that this is a pretty empy claim that any villager can make, but I'm just puzzled by people's willingness to continue throwing me into the mix when there are numerous players whose voting records are really suspect. It is a low value play.

I've already mentioned that I'm suspicious of the Pass vote, too. I really think he's voting for me just because I pressed him on his voting pattern. His reluctance to talk about it makes me suspicious of him.

Hoops, I forget how many questions I have left with you, but I think I'll transfer them all to clap. I think I've picked your brain enough for the day.

[dubb93]

Unvote Hoops

Vote Lerriuqs

If this is what the group wants. Why should I argue?

Ouch, is this still almost always a wolf move?