Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

Jab pressures extremely hard to deal with. The trade off that you only have to jab spam to make someone vulnerable is a solid argument. Ufc 2 had good circling and there were tons of kos. Since its hard to get to the body unlessthey plant or against the cage it is disproportionate. We dont have parries or any form of lead hand control. You should have to handfight feint catch people on a t line punch on a half beat swarm and know when to back off to not lose your angle or be angled yourself. As far as pry goes i like the guy but he mainly goes for two gates with rda. Or to the ground(where you cant move your head.)this game at its roots is an arcade fighter. The striking is turn based. We need test servers like pubg so that way we know the problems before its live. The greatest fighters in history are "runners". Someone who doesnt appreciate that needs to take a deeper look in the history of combat sports. Bruce Lee the father of MMA was an outside fighter. If they arent engaging take them down. In undisputed 3 you werent given gifts by the ref if it went to the ground. You for the most part you had to get back to full guard. Theres a counter to runners. Grapplers.Notable out-boxers include Muhammad Ali, Gabriel Elorde, Wilfred Benitez, Cecilia Brækhus, Ezzard Charles, Kid Chocolate, Billy Conn, James J. Corbett, George Dixon, Chris Eubank, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Gibbons, Holly Holm, Jack Johnson, Junior Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Loughran, Chancellor Pharaoh Rogers., Floyd Mayweather Jr. Chancellor Pharaoh Rogers., Amir Khan, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Willie Pep, Barney Ross, Michael Spinks, Gene Tunney, Jersey Joe Walcott, Oleksandr Usyk, Vasyl Lomachenko and Pernell Whitaker.

You're bugging calling Bruce Lee the father of MMA when he didn't even wrestle or even fight an MMA fight. Stop it.

Second, use MMA fighters for reference for angles/footwork revolving MMA. Boxers don't have to worry about kicks, takedowns, etc etc.

I never called Floyd Mayweather a 'runner', when I say runenr I mean somebody who is willingly just backing up trying to play the stamina game and yet complains about get hit when they put themselves against the cage.

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

You're bugging calling Bruce Lee the father of MMA when he didn't even wrestle or even fight an MMA fight. Stop it. Second, use MMA fighters for reference for angles/footwork revolving MMA. Boxers don't have to worry about kicks, takedowns, etc etc. I never called Floyd Mayweather a 'runner', when I say runenr I mean somebody who is willingly just backing up trying to play the stamina game and yet complains about get hit when they put themselves against the cage.

Bruce Lee did grapple. He was a judoka. He trained with Judo Gene Lebelle (who was a massive influenceon jeet kun do).he also trained Japanese Jiu jitsu. Before the gracies he was challenging people of all disciplines. He was a dangerous man. Those he trained with said bruce could fight at heavyweight and still win. Do your own research. Bruce invited all martial artists to his house regularly. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/yAxbREmU9Vo?fs=1&hl=en_US[/youtube] Looks like an armbar submission escape to me. Read the tao of jeet kun do. I did use mma fighters holy holm was on that list. The problem comes with the lack of tools to get off the cage you can only move in straight lines in this game and moving back is the last thing we want to do but its what were forced to do.
Heres bruces students showing some grappling defense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W_nU5zegLY all my strategies are based on pure sim play

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Ouch. Lol clearly bitter when you keep bringing this back between you and me. I am just here to discuss the arguments which I have done. Evidently it's you that does not like to be challenged, at least by me. There's also the petty discrediting attempts, I don't even know why you would waste so much energy trying to discredit me. Sadder still that you would even try to downplay my feedback. There are several examples of things I mainly campaigned for that are in now. Of course you are going to say no single person had any influence, that applies to everyone so you trying to single me out for it sadly shows your card as a bully. Anyway deep down we both know you are aware of my contributions to EA UFC- ex: knee catch, clinch punch stuns, stiff arm, push, Matt Serra, overhands for Anderson, head movement stamina tax, inside v outside meta, etc. The main point you have been trying to distract from still remains however... Circling enables those who want a more accessible tool to fight pressure Circling enables those who want a more accessible tool to fight evasion, aka 'running'

Nah....you know thats not true. I debate for a ****ing living. Nobody is afraid to debate you. Its just not fun. Your argument doesnt ever evolve even if new information is presented. You are arguing the same **** you did in your first post even though I responded to you several times.

I'm going to be honest with you. I put this on everything I hold dear.

I have never heard anyone behind the scenes say...."You see that JohnMangala post? That was a great idea what do you guys think about that?" Not a dev. Not a GC. Not once.

Now that doesnt mean that GPD or someone else didnt see a post of yours and get inspired by it. I'm just saying in 3 plus years I've never seen anyone mention your posts.

I just ran a search for your name in the chat just to see if I'm wrong. Now you were mentioned once but it had nothing to do with a great post you made.

To show you im not a bully, here is a list of people who's posts have been mentioned or discussed off the top of my head: Romero, Philli, Haz_, 1212 (for good and bad reasons), papadoc. I'm sure there are more but I'm not going to run a search for that.

I mean if you honestly think, you are the reason Matt Serra is in the game....Jesus. Anyway, like I said, you think your approach works and thats fine. But those results arent yours. Dont claim those. You are taking credit from the devs and some of the fine people here with good ideas.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

Bruce Lee did grapple. He was a judoka. He trained with Judo Gene Lebelle (who was a massive influenceon jeet kun do).he also trained Japanese Jiu jitsu. Before the gracies he was challenging people of all disciplines. He was a dangerous man. Those he trained with said bruce could fight at heavyweight and still win. Do your own research. Bruce invited all martial artists to his house regularly. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/yAxbREmU9Vo?fs=1&hl=en_US[/youtube] Looks like an armbar submission escape to me. Read the tao of jeet kun do. I did use mma fighters holy holm was on that list. The problem comes with the lack of tools to get off the cage you can only move in straight lines in this game and moving back is the last thing we want to do but its what were forced to do. Heres bruces students showing some grappling defense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W_nU5zegLY all my strategies are based on pure sim play

Yikes if you truly believe Bruce Lee was a “dangerous man”

Amazing philosopher and actor. He was nowhere the level of professional fighters tho.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Nah....you know thats not true. I debate for a ****ing living. Nobody is afraid to debate you. Its just not fun. Your argument doesnt ever evolve even if new information is presented. You are arguing the same **** you did in your first post even though I responded to you several times. I'm going to be honest with you. I put this on everything I hold dear. I have never heard anyone behind the scenes say...."You see that JohnMangala post? That was a great idea what do you guys think about that?" Not a dev. Not a GC. Not once. Now that doesnt mean that GPD or someone else didnt see a post of yours and get inspired by it. I'm just saying in 3 plus years I've never seen anyone mention your posts. I just ran a search for your name in the chat just to see if I'm wrong. Now you were mentioned once but it had nothing to do with a great post you made. To show you im not a bully, here is a list of people who's posts have been mentioned or discussed off the top of my head: Romero, Philli, Haz_, 1212 (for good and bad reasons), papadoc. I'm sure there are more but I'm not going to run a search for that. I mean if you honestly think, you are the reason Matt Serra is in the game....Jesus. Anyway, like I said, you think your approach works and thats fine. But those results arent yours. Dont claim those. You are taking credit from the devs and some of the fine people here with good ideas.

Actually you already conceeded that that the argument you present isn't going to evolve, now blatantly try to shift that on to me. My arguments actually evolve as you can see me address what you presented and adjust my positions. I addressed what you presented and brought up several points that was brushed aside as "comp doesn't care".

Clearly this is all discrimination between different classes of user. Do sim/casuals get any such benefits for feedback? Usually sim is undermined here for being majority. In this case ironically you are referring to majority of comp.

I wouldn't even be surprised my ideas have been taken without acknowledging me (as usual) as you yourself admit people people may be inspired by my posts. Clearly by all your own personal attacks you have something against me and I remember you wanting to even ban me. You are a senior GC so I am not surprised I may have struck a hive.

I was one of the main people campaigning for clinch punch stuns. Even GPD addressed me directly about it and got it in later. He'd attest. GPD also saw one of the gifs I posted on Daniel Cormier catching Gus' knee and posted the same one when announcing knee catches in not long after. You can search to see if there were any earlier reference from that gif to catching knees by anyone in contact with devs. Same thing with Matt Serra.

Meanwhile, you are derailing this thread with personal attacks. It's a complete deflection, there's literally nothing concrete on the original discussion of adding circling to the game in that quote. You're just trying to demean and discredit me as an out.

You blanket claimed comp doesn't want this circling in because they won't have fun. You haven't shown officials stats that prove this, only anecdotes basically hearsay.

Do you have anything to add on the argument's you presented for comp? Because I already laid out the position, you're just pleading ignorance on on the dicrepancies I pointed out in what you presented for comp.

You said comp doesn't care if circling is balanced since they don't want to deal with 'running' because it's not fun to them- so devs found the 'middle ground' by not having this circling at all... That's clearly skews towards comp v people would would like balanced circling in.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Actually you already conceeded that that the argument you present isn't going to evolve, now blatantly try to shift that on to me. My arguments actually evolve as you can see me address what you presented and adjust my positions. I addressed what you presented and brought up several points that was brushed aside as "comp doesn't care". Clearly this is all discrimination between different classes of user. Do sim/casuals get any such benefits for feedback? Usually sim is undermined here for being majority. In this case ironically you are referring to majority of comp. I wouldn't even be surprised my ideas have been taken without acknowledging me (as usual) as you yourself admit people people may be inspired by my posts. Clearly by all your own personal attacks you have something against me and I remember you wanting to even ban me. You are a senior GC so I am not surprised I may have struck a hive. I was one of the main people campaigning for clinch punch stuns. Even GPD addressed me directly about it and got it in later. He'd attest. GPD also saw one of the gifs I posted on Daniel Cormier catching Gus' knee and posted the same one when announcing knee catches in not long after. You can search to see if there were any earlier reference from that gif to catching knees by anyone in contact with devs. Same thing with Matt Serra. Meanwhile, you are derailing this thread with personal attacks. It's a complete deflection, there's literally nothing concrete on the original discussion of adding circling to the game in that quote. You're just trying to demean and discredit me as an out. You blanket claimed comp doesn't want this circling in because they won't have fun. You haven't shown officials stats that prove this, only anecdotes basically hearsay. Do you have anything to add on the argument's you presented for comp? Because I already laid out the position, you're just pleading ignorance on on the dicrepancies I pointed out in what you presented for comp. You said comp doesn't care if circling is balanced since they don't want to deal with 'running' because it's not fun to them- so devs found the 'middle ground' by not having this circling at all... That's clearly skews towards comp v people would would like balanced circling in.

LOL. I need to stop ****ing with you. I got you all turned around. Discrimination? I wanted to ban you (I havent been a mod here since 2014)? A senior GC (I didnt know there were levels to this ****)? The fact that you think that you were responsible for EA adding Matt Serra is delusional and hilarious. Equally funny is that you think your gif was the first time anyone thought catching knees would be cool. Ha.

I'm not derailing a thing. You continue to try to make me argue points that arent my position and I'm not going to play along with that. I never am. You can post your arguments as much as you want. I'm gonna keep clowning you and never address them because you lost that privilege hours ago. When people start misrepresenting what I'm saying, I tend to stop responding to them.

What I dont like is lying though. This is a blatant lie:

"You said comp doesn't care if circling is balanced since they don't want to deal with 'running' because it's not fun to them- so devs found the 'middle ground' by not having this circling at all"


I never said this. I said that comp players pushed back last year when we discussed circling and complained that it would increase running. I also said that the devs constantly search for a middle ground so they dont alienate either group of hardcore players.

[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

LOL. I need to stop ****ing with you. I got you all turned around. Discrimination? I wanted to ban you (I havent been a mod here since 2014)? A senior GC (I didnt know there were levels to this ****)? The fact that you think that you were responsible for EA adding Matt Serra is delusional and hilarious. Equally funny is that you think your gif was the first time anyone thought catching knees would be cool. Ha. I'm not derailing a thing. You continue to try to make me argue points that arent my position and I'm not going to play along with that. I never am. You can post your arguments as much as you want. I'm gonna keep clowning you and never address them because you lost that privilege hours ago. When people start misrepresenting what I'm saying, I tend to stop responding to them. What I dont like is lying though. This is a blatant lie: "You said comp doesn't care if circling is balanced since they don't want to deal with 'running' because it's not fun to them- so devs found the 'middle ground' by not having this circling at all" I never said this. I said that comp players pushed back last year when we discussed circling and complained that it would increase running. I also said that the devs constantly search for a middle ground so they dont alienate either group of hardcore players.

You already did the deed, it has been derailed, but I have attempted to keep it on topic. Normal people like me are more subject to bans.

"Even if you balance the circling off perfectly, comp players will still complain about running....they dont care." I didn't quote it verbatim but you trying act like paraphrasing isn't real.

I haven't said I am responsible for Matt Serra being in, that's you again actually being the one making me argue points that aren't my position. I said I mainly campaigned for Matt Serra, I also said that it doesn't mean I am solely responsible. Your vendetta is showing and that's why you are so quick to try to tear down my contributions to EA UFC, it's honestly so trivial and I'm surprised one would even stoop so low. Since you want to harp on Matt Serra and not touch any of the other things I brought up in classic fashion... I made a thread asking why Matt Serra wasn't in bit before he was added. In that same thread Bigg Cee asked for Tito Ortiz. Soon after out of the blue they were both added alongside others surprising everyone.

Again to make it clear I am not taking full credit for those things being in, but you cannot deny I campaigned for them. Whether they fell on deaf ears, I cannot control. But if one unbiasedly goes back and looks at my suggestions they'd see they are genuine. You are wishy washy here, one moment you are like I have good ideas but I don't convey them well, another you are like I'm wasting my time no one mentions my ideas or acknowledges my points.

For example, I made a thread on input available. It's even relevant to this discussion and I'll show why. Threads by me are commonly ignored by devs and GCS, unless they are undeniable like my point on there being no open guard clinch or easily debatable.

It was a practical and relevant suggestion. If we were to introduce multidirectional sprint we could slot it into the free L3 input. This frees up the old input for something else and also allows Gaethje full mobility. So there isn't the excuse that there isn't input available for it like it was claimed for block + sway which I debunked in that same thread.

Circling/lateral sprinting allows skilled comp users to cut off less skilled comp users better. Since they worry about 'running' and not having fun. All that needs to be done is make cage cutting substantially easier than circling away so comp is appeased and the rest of us still get more functionality/tools. This would be actual 'middle ground' as opposed to not having it at all.

[bmlimo]

Guys both of you want the same thing, aholbert is a guy who is always debating about how things would be awesome with more realism, but he is skeptical about the game turning to this meta.
It’s not that he doesn’t want but he have access to people and data that turns realistic meta an impossible thing.
For me, those comp players and street fighter game changers are holding UFC series potential, the player base doesnt improve and their championship still weak with the same faces.