MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

It's funny how we make a big deal about lack of fastball variety in regards to pitcher's primary offerings, and when I finally do see it, it is wrong

Tim Lincecum

Remove:
RFB
2-seam
12-6

Add:
4-Seam
Sinker - Should have same velocity as 4-Seam
Curve

Modify:
Slider - should be ~3mph faster

Lincecum's fastball averages less than an inch of horizontal movement, while his curveball has enough horizontal movement to not qualify as a 12-6

Lincecum movement.png

Source

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

It's funny how we make a big deal about lack of fastball variety in regards to pitcher's primary offerings, and when I finally do see it, it is wrong

Tim Lincecum

Remove:
RFB
2-seam
12-6

Add:
4-Seam
Sinker - Should have same velocity as 4-Seam
Curve

Modify:
Slider - should be ~3mph faster

Lincecum's fastball averages less than an inch of horizontal movement, while his curveball has enough horizontal movement to not qualify as a 12-6

[ATTACH]42719[/ATTACH]

Source

I can't say I agree with you about a sinker. The site I link to below does separate two-seam fastballs from sinkers and Lincecum isn't shown to have a sinker.

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/453311/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=3%2F1%2F2010&to=3%2F11%2F2012

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I can't say I agree with you about a sinker. The site I link to below does separate two-seam fastballs from sinkers and Lincecum isn't shown to have a sinker.

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pit...=3%2F11%2F2012

The reason I chose to give Timmy a sinker is because when gravity is taken into account, his 2-seam/sinker has ~twice the amount of vertical movement than horizontal movement, Last year it was -14.36/-6.69. For me, if a pitch classified as 2-seam/sinker has less than a ~2:1 ratio it is definitely a 2-seamer, because visually it will have more run than sink

[Jason_19]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Good find. I guess that explains the group pitches near the center of the graph classified as CU/CH:

Since both of these pitches are showing up as curveballs and changeups on two different pitch f/x sites, does anyone know if he's throwing this pitch more like a slider or more like a slurve moves on The Show. I thought he threw a fairly hard slider at around 85-87 mph. If he is then I don't know how and why two different pitch f/x sites would miss that.

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Since both of these pitches are showing up as curveballs and changeups on two different pitch f/x sites, does anyone know if he's throwing this pitch more like a slider or more like a slurve moves on The Show. I thought he threw a fairly hard slider at around 85-87 mph. If he is then I don't know how and why two different pitch f/x sites would miss that.

In the game it would be a 12-6 curve due to the lack of horizontal movement, the slurve has too much horizontal break IMO

Edit:
I've noticed this year that movement is more dependent on arm angle and release point, if you ignore the OSD for movement after each pitch, the trajectories seem more realistic

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

PITCHER: Craig Kimbrel (Braves)
WHAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED: Take away his changeup entirely. He does not throw one. All he throws is a four-seam fastball, a slider, and rarely a two-seam fastball. Increase his four-seam fastball velocity to top at 100.

I checked F/X and youtube and he does reach 100 mph. He did throw a changeup in 2010.

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/518886/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=3%2F1%2F2010&to=3%2F12%2F2012

[Melanconfan]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I checked F/X and youtube and he does reach 100 mph. He did throw a changeup in 2010.

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pit...=3%2F12%2F2012

If you check the spin movement graphs, those "change-ups" are just mislabeled sliders.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Rick Porcello

In the game his 4 seam fastball is his #1 pitch and his 2 Seamer is his 5th best. In real life, he throws his 2 seamer 52% of the time and it acts like a sinker. It should be his #1 pitch, he throws it more than half the time.

http://brooksbaseball.net/player_car...?player=519144

[dkrause1971]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Pittsburgh RP Chris Resop
He throws his slider less than 1% of the time. Change-up 3% and sinker 2%. I am not sure how you decide if you want to keep them. I would pull the slider for sure but just wanted to pass along the information.

http://brooksbaseball.net/player_car...?player=434592
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...799&position=P

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

All the following on LA Angels.

Dan Haren:

I couldn't find evidence of a slurve for Haren. He used to throw a slider. FB and Splitter averages in game don't match stats and Cutter s/b 85 mph

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/429717/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=3%2F1%2F2010&to=3%2F13%2F2012

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...757&position=P

Jerad Weaver:

Game has him with a FB at 89 speed and 2-seamer at 86. Both are essentially the same speed at 89. His slider in game is 78 speed but averages s/b 79.
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...235&position=P

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/450308/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=3%2F1%2F2010&to=3%2F13%2F2012

CJ Wilson FB in game average speed listed at 93. Last 2 years his FB averaged 90 mph.

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/450351/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=3%2F1%2F2010&to=3%2F13%2F2012

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...580&position=P

Ervin Santana:

3 curveballs thrown in 2years:

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pitcher/429722/?batters=A&count=AA&pitches=AA&from=3%2F1%2F2010&to=3%2F13%2F2012

Garrett Richards:

No curve, Slider speed averages (game 87) S/B 85 and Changeup speed averages S/B 85

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...784&position=P

http://pitchfx.texasleaguers.com/pit...=3%2F13%2F2012

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

C. J. Wilson of the Angels is rated better for giving up home runs than Clayton Kershaw. According to stats, Kershaw should be rated as good if not better. Kershaw is rated 79 and Wilson is rated 80.

Wilson 2009 -2011 with 2009 being just 73 innings:

0.37, 0.44, 0.64

Kershaw 2009-2011

0.37, 0.57, 0.58

Total innings: Wilson 500, Kershaw 608.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...580&position=P

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...036&position=P

[gator3guy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I noticed sinker ballers like Derek Lowe and Tim Hudson have 4 seam fastballs that run from 94-95 mph. It's awfully tough to hit against these guys in the game. In Lowe's case he threw a 4 seamer .1% of the time at an average of 87 mph. Hudson threw his 12.9% of the time at an average of 90 mph. I'm sure these guys aren't the only ones, but they are the ones I actually played against.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...ion=P#velocity

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...ion=P#velocity

[Phillies_Aces35]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I noticed sinker ballers like Derek Lowe and Tim Hudson have 4 seam fastballs that run from 94-95 mph. It's awfully tough to hit against these guys in the game. In Lowe's case he threw a 4 seamer .1% of the time at an average of 87 mph. Hudson threw his 12.9% of the time at an average of 90 mph. I'm sure these guys aren't the only ones, but they are the one I actually played against.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...ion=P#velocity

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.asp...ion=P#velocity

As a whole, sinkers in this game aren't well represented velocity wise... Like I mentioned with Halladay, I'll average 86-89 with his sinker when in real life, he's at 89-92.

I can't hit Derek Lowe in this game for my life. I'm always looking sinker and he'll blow a 95mph fastball by me...

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

As a whole, sinkers in this game aren't well represented velocity wise... Like I mentioned with Halladay, I'll average 86-89 with his sinker when in real life, he's at 89-92.

I can't hit Derek Lowe in this game for my life. I'm always looking sinker and he'll blow a 95mph fastball by me...

Yeah what I've noticed is that 2-seamers/sinkers are generally rated 2-4mph slower in-game, when IRL pitchers with both varieties of fastballs throw them at the same speed, there seems to be a common misconception that 2-seamers are slower than 4-seamers when that is simply not the case

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Yeah what I've noticed is that 2-seamers/sinkers are generally rated 2-4mph slower in-game, when IRL pitchers with both varieties of fastballs throw them at the same speed, there seems to be a common misconception that 2-seamers are slower than 4-seamers when that is simply not the case

I think it's done to make hitting harder, especially for top pitchers like Jerad Weaver. They have Weaver's rated speed 89 for 4-seamer and 86 for 2-seamer. Stats show them less than 1 mph difference.