The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

[wwharton]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

Are people saying Braun should be put in prison?



Guess you don't follow the Olympics much. You get caught, you lose medals, you lose records, you get multi-year bans, you pay back any prize money you won while on the juice. I never hear anyone expressing sympathy for Marion Jones and the like.

The foundation of the Olympic games has always been about as strict as possible on creating a level playing field. In the same sense, golf has players reporting their own fouls and even honor reports from fans watching on tv and call in a violation.

We aren't talking about the Olympics (track and field or otherwise) or golf, we're talking about baseball. The sport with greenies and corked bats, kids lying about their age and stealing signs, catchers framing pitches and fielders hiding trapped balls. Where pitchers throw at batters and batters lean into pitches. If you want to draw an imaginary line between what is just "part of the game" and what should have a player excommunicated more power to you. I personally will acknowledge that every HR, stolen base and strikeout in history came with the possibility of one of the players involved doing something beyond the rules and not getting caught... and I won't think any more about anyone who does get caught doing any of the above than the punishment MLB lays down on them.

[DrJones]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

To completely vilify these players because using PED's is "unethical" is ridiculous. No one was complaining when Sosa and McGwire resurrected the sport with the infamous race to 62. The Owners and The Commisoner loved when players were smashing balls out of the park on a consistent basis because it was helping them rake in Millions upon Millions of dollars. Now Baseball decides to take the moral high ground? Please Selig is more corrupt then anybody. They only care about the PED users now because they are trying to save face, they don't care about the sport it's just about the money.

The "Sosa and McGwire saved baseball!!!" myth was debunked long ago. Attendance figures rose more sharply between 95 & 96 and 96 & 97 than any year during the peak HR years (98-01). Baseball fans were coming back regardless.

[G3no_11]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

The issue with this contract voiding punishment is the one case every so often that turns out to be a false positive. They need to have two different avenues for punishments for these rare cases.

[Steven78]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

To completely vilify these players because using PED's is "unethical" is ridiculous. No one was complaining when Sosa and McGwire resurrected the sport with the infamous race to 62. The Owners and The Commisoner loved when players were smashing balls out of the park on a consistent basis because it was helping them rake in Millions upon Millions of dollars. Now Baseball decides to take the moral high ground? Please Selig is more corrupt then anybody. They only care about the PED users now because they are trying to save face, they don't care about the sport it's just about the money.

So because it was ignored in the past means they should do nothing moving forward? I never understand the line of logic that if someone gets caught and they lie and lie and lie about it they are somehow not responsible for their own actions. Like you see certain people blaming Selig and MLB for this. How does that work?

Also, I dont understand the line about it being just about the money. If anything these suspensions are causing people to stay away or ignore baseball. Hell, if anything you could argue Selig is costing his league money by doing this. If they wanted to make the most money possible they would sweep this under the rug, declare players are clean and end it right there. All this does is paint a black eye on MLB which is nothing about money.

[roadman]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

If they wanted to make the most money possible they would sweep this under the rug, declare players are clean and end it right there. All this does is paint a black eye on MLB which is nothing about money.

Like they did in the late 90's?

A lot has been swept under the carpet since the beginning of baseball.

[G3no_11]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

Like they did in the late 90's?

A lot has been swept under the carpet since the beginning of baseball.

Pretty sure that's what he was talking about. The point is, this isn't the 90's anymore and baseball is actually putting an effort into cleaning the game up.

[Steven78]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

Like they did in the late 90's?

A lot has been swept under the carpet since the beginning of baseball.

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying.

[24]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

So because it was ignored in the past means they should do nothing moving forward? I never understand the line of logic that if someone gets caught and they lie and lie and lie about it they are somehow not responsible for their own actions. Like you see certain people blaming Selig and MLB for this. How does that work?
.

I'm not blaming Selig and the MLB for the players taking PED's I'm blaming both of them for acting like they are innocent. Selig knew players were using PED's but decided to overlook it for so many years. That's what I blame him for.Selig has no choice now to unleash on the players that are caught nowadays.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

The "Sosa and McGwire saved baseball!!!" myth was debunked long ago. Attendance figures rose more sharply between 95 & 96 and 96 & 97 than any year during the peak HR years (98-01). Baseball fans were coming back regardless.

Doc, do you have a good link discussing this? I'd love to have it on hand for the future.

[24]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/1990-99attendance.htm

Here's the figures. I admit when I'm wrong

[roadman]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying.

I guess my point is when Sosa and McGwire took over, people were ripping on Selig back then for a lenient drug policy.

It was several years later when one was put into place.

So, same commissioner looks like a hero because there is finally a policy in place after more than 14 years. The policy didn't take place until Spring of 2006.

In my profession, people lie all the time to help their financial needs.

Agree with 24, same thing that I was thinking.

[DrJones]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

Doc, do you have a good link discussing this? I'd love to have it on hand for the future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/sp...9iht-fans.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/250163-debate-did-sammy-sosa-and-mark-mcgwire-really-save-baseball-in-1998

[inkcil]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

Players, owners and Selig are still benefiting from the "Steroid Era" which by the way...ain't over yet. So it won't stop until people stop buying tickets. And even during the "great recession" stadiums are still being packed out. So...

[roadman]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

ESPN is reporting a few details with Braun and BioGenesis.

Braun had a go-between, a former U of Miami player.

Also, Braun bought steroids two months prior to the 2011 playoffs. There are no record of purchases from the 2012 season. (ie after he was let go of the technicality, he's tested clean and no record of purchases from BioGenesis)

Also, Brewers owner, Mark Attanasio, in a no holds barred interview in the press box of the 7th inning last night, said, he's staying behind Braun. Said he apologized again to him personnally yesterday and he told Braun he'd loke to take a more active role in talking to him from this point going forward. Said he would counsel Braun in ways to go about repairing the damage he has done to his reputation and career as well as the franchise's. He made it clear it take considerable time for Braun to make amends, if it's even possible at this point. Said Braun is very accepting of that.

He said he thinks Braun wants to do the right thing and going forward and admitting guilt was the first baby step. He said Braun is cooperating in such a way that he's going to let baseball conclude or get futher into his investigation before he talks. Attanasio said he's not implying he's speaking against other players, just relative to his own case, he's cooperating with baseball. Even though he's ready to speak to people he's waiting a little while longer so they can get through some of what they are doing in the investigation. He also said it would take careful thought and actions to seek redemption. He told Braun even if his next press conference he was truthful and honest, it would take a long to time repair the fences that need mending.

Interesting, we'll see what develops from here.

[C the Lyte]

Re: The Biogenesis/Suspension thread

ARod should be banned for life. Braun should get at least 100 games. The rules should change so 1st time offenders get 100 games; year long ban; ban for life. You can scroll through this thread and any other one talking about steroids and see the extremes some want taken against offenders.

I would even go deeper than just who should be a role model in this case. What is our issue with these people? Is it that they cheated? Bc many have corked bats, scuffed balls, stolen signs, acted like they caught balls that were trapped, etc, etc. Baseball players break the rules all the time... on purpose. We don't think twice about 99% of it.

Is it that they took drugs to "enhance" their performance? As someone mentioned here, Curt Shilling's famous bloody sock game was made possible by him getting a shot to numb pain. And there are plenty of drugs taken that are allowed. Over the years some have become illegal... never is it bc of some unfair advantage it gives the athlete taking them.

Personally, the only reason I think people should be hammering Braun is the level of lies he laid down. And personally, I don't think the extremes some want to punish based on lying makes sense.

Corked bats, stealing signs, etc. bend/break the rules of the game. We've all done something like that to some sort of extent when playing games.

PED use is against federal law. To compare the 2 is IMO ridiculous.

Edit - Let me clean this up a bit, since PED use is against federal law is an ignorant statement. The illegal use of substances besides its intended purpose under prescription is against the law. Steroids for example.