MLB Off-Topic

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The one thing I can't help but wonder is all of those players speaking out, what they would have done have they been part of the Astros team in 2017? Would they have partaken in the scheme? Would they have not, but stayed quiet? Would they have called out their team and teammates for cheating?

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The one thing I can't help but wonder is all of those players speaking out, what they would have done have they been part of the Astros team in 2017? Would they have partaken in the scheme? Would they have not, but stayed quiet? Would they have called out their team and teammates for cheating?

I think for some, it comes down to the question as to whether or not they think they'd get caught doing so. As in, would they do this again knowing what did and didn't come to them as players?

Personally, my answer three months back was this:

What's sad is that if I were a player hitter though, while I couldn't ever see myself taking steroids, if I was on the Astros in this situation, I couldn't say that I would ever deny wanting to receive that kind of information. It's just that good. The ends justify the means, because it is not punitively damaging for me on a personal level. Unless the MLB finds some way to smite individual players for this instead of the team as a whole, me dismissing that information only hurts me by not knowing what happened, and even if I could prove to anybody in the MLB that I dismissed it, I am still guilty by association and the team is still every bit as punished. The only thing I could do is be a Mike Fiers, only within the team itself. I don't know if I could muster up the courage to do that.

We'll see if they can muster up enough emotional strength this season to face the fans and the media, but it's unlikely that you'd be someone who would say "no" if you thought that it would help you. It's also unlikely you would go and blow the whistle on your own team, especially if they could find out it was you who did it. There was likely a lot of peer pressure to make the system work right. You never want to be "that guy."

So yeah, either I think they think they wouldn't get caught, or that if they got caught it wouldn't matter enough. However, now that there is a precedence and the Astros will be scrutinized to hell, there isn't a snowball's chance they will try it again now.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Some guy went to Astros spring training and banged a trashcan. I say we all throw in a few bucks and pay all expenses for this person (or a rotating group) to do this all spring, at every practice, before every game during BP.

https://twitter.com/baseballquotes1/...648839680?s=21

Oh man, I just realized that A's fans will come in full force with drums for at least nine games this upcoming season. They already bang them enough, but now when someone like Bregman comes up you know that's all that they'll be doing.

[slickdtc]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The one thing I can't help but wonder is all of those players speaking out, what they would have done have they been part of the Astros team in 2017? Would they have partaken in the scheme? Would they have not, but stayed quiet? Would they have called out their team and teammates for cheating?

It would be a minority group who would say it isn’t right. It’s real easy to be holier than thou, but harder to stand against something that will benefit your team even if it’s questionable.

I mean, there’s tons of non-player people who have excused all or part of the behavior as just being part of the game, even if they concede it was taken farther then most. So I’m sure some players had qualms with it, but were kinda convinced others might be doing something similar and they were just ahead of it. Plus, if it wasn’t explicitly against the rules, it was fair, right? An extreme bending, but legal all the same. Which is comical in a sport that has so many unwritten, sportsmanship, traditional, etc rules.

But... the reality is the Astros cheated and presumably other teams don’t or not to the same level. Maybe other teams had players who rejected it. Well probably never know. So the what if is just a question for the talking heads to debate. Astros got caught, and now it’s open season on them as it should be.

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It would be a minority group who would say it isn’t right. It’s real easy to be holier than thou, but harder to stand against something that will benefit your team even if it’s questionable.

I mean, there’s tons of non-player people who have excused all or part of the behavior as just being part of the game, even if they concede it was taken farther then most. So I’m sure some players had qualms with it, but were kinda convinced others might be doing something similar and they were just ahead of it. Plus, if it wasn’t explicitly against the rules, it was fair, right? An extreme bending, but legal all the same. Which is comical in a sport that has so many unwritten, sportsmanship, traditional, etc rules.

But... the reality is the Astros cheated and presumably other teams don’t or not to the same level. Maybe other teams had players who rejected it. Well probably never know. So the what if is just a question for the talking heads to debate. Astros got caught, and now it’s open season on them as it should be.

But that's the point I was making in regards to the question. It's easy if you're weren't a part of the team to take a firm stand against cheating and making claims such as Markakis did that each player deserves a beating. It's easy to be against it when you weren't benefitting from it.

I'm not suggesting the Astros don't deserve whatever ridicule they get or what have you, nor that their actions should be excused. Just I think it's easy to be up in arms and offended by what happened and wanting some type of "revenge" when you weren't part of the scheme, but I doubt any of those speaking out would be honest in their answer if the question of "what would you have done if you were on that Astros team in 2017" were posed to them, now that its all out there.

I mean look at Mike Fiers...he didn't have a problem with it while he was winning and getting that World Series Championship, but now he had this need to speak up. I imagine many of those speaking out now, would have the same mindset as Fiers.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Why does it matter?

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Why does it matter?

I guess it doesn't.

But everyone else was chiming in with thoughts and opinions on the scandal, I decided to share mine.

I apologize for interrupting the mob mentality towards the Astros. Please carry on

[dickey1331]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

The one thing I can't help but wonder is all of those players speaking out, what they would have done have they been part of the Astros team in 2017? Would they have partaken in the scheme? Would they have not, but stayed quiet? Would they have called out their team and teammates for cheating?

There were rumors that other teams besides the Astros and Red Sox were cheating. Sometimes the loudest people are the most at fault.


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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You can post whatever you want, I was just trying to see if anything was being added to the conversation other than looks into the hearts of guys we’ve never met. Now that you’ve answered no, we’re all good.

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You can post whatever you want, I was just trying to see if anything was being added to the conversation other than looks into the hearts of guys we’ve never met. Now that you’ve answered no, we’re all good.

Next time I'll be sure to check with you to ensure my post/opinion/thought meets the quality standard required to participate in the Astros scandal discussion.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware there was criteria that needed to be met before posting on the subject.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Spoiler

Already said you can post whatever you want, I asked a question to see if you thought anything you were asking should be factored into how everything is being taken, and you took it as a shot. Take this dumb **** somewhere else.

Anyway, glad to see Judge and Stanton both believe in vacating the title. My guys are saying what I need to get ready for the season.

[jeebs9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

There were rumors that other teams besides the Astros and Red Sox were cheating. Sometimes the loudest people are the most at fault.


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But the Drums...And then hiring the bench coach behind it. And then hiring the player behind it.

Here is the thing though guys. So you create this grand scheme to steal signs. You start soft with the drums. Crowds get louder throughout the season. Making it hard to hear. So you add whistles. And then you add visual stuff like bullpen player without jackets (putting hands-up vs hands down vs arms crossed) and then you finally cut all the middlemen. And put a buzzer on players.

Through all the above. No one... I mean No one... Thought "Hey what about the players that leave this team?". Even if you sign a NDA. People can still leak this stuff out. And millions of dollars are pumped into these players. And no one... I mean no one thought we should clean this up.

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I just shared a question that I had personally thought about with these players speaking out, nothing more. How that should be factored into how everything is being taken is up for each individual to decide for themselves I guess.

Myself, I ponder that question, because I question the validity of the anger and the high ethical standards of those speaking out. It's been rumored that more than just the BoSox and the Astros have tried in some capability to interpret signs electronically. Are they mad because the Astros cheated, or are they mad because the Astros built a better mousetrap and beat them at "cheating"?

The guy getting the credit for blowing the thing open is also a guy who remained quiet about it for nearly 3 years. How many of those speaking out would have actually spoken up and ratted out their team and teammates? Or would they have done what Tony Kemp did, and not partake but not speak out as well?

[slickdtc]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I liked DieHard’s post because how guys handled it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t change that the Astros cheated. That’s deflecting, pointing the finger elsewhere when your hand is caught in the cookie jar.

I’m sure other guys would’ve cheated if given the chance. But they didn’t because they weren’t given the chance, or they or their front offices and coaches don’t believe it to be fair so it never even got that far. That’s the best answer to “would you cheat?” as one can get.

A lot of people are focusing on Fiers and saying it’s sour grapes. He was fine with it when it helped him win a ring. But maybe going elsewhere, seeing that the cheating isn’t widespread in the manner Houston was doing it, realizing he was wrong, etc flipped him. Often whistleblowers aren’t squeaky clean themselves. Fiers sacrificed his reputation to alert the league and protect the majority of guys who are doing it fairly. I don’t think of Fiers as a hero, but I am glad he spoke up.

[jeebs9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I liked DieHard’s post because how guys handled it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t change that the Astros cheated. That’s deflecting, pointing the finger elsewhere when your hand is caught in the cookie jar.

I’m sure other guys would’ve cheated if given the chance. But they didn’t because they weren’t given the chance, or they or their front offices and coaches don’t believe it to be fair so it never even got that far. That’s the best answer to “would you cheat?” as one can get.

A lot of people are focusing on Fiers and saying it’s sour grapes. He was fine with it when it helped him win a ring. But maybe going elsewhere, seeing that the cheating isn’t widespread in the manner Houston was doing it, realizing he was wrong, etc flipped him. Often whistleblowers aren’t squeaky clean themselves. Fiers sacrificed his reputation to alert the league and protect the majority of guys who are doing it fairly. I don’t think of Fiers as a hero, but I am glad he spoke up.

THANK YOU!! I was reading Countryboy post like WTF is he saying