2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

lol play Meso everyday that couldnt handle a rotation sure and by your logic whats the difference with Price playing Bruce/Cozart and their mendoza hitting everyday??

Hard for a pitching staff to get comfortable with a catcher if he isnt playing,lol. Even the Greatest Catcher of all time Johnny Bench said Mez needed to be playing everyday.

I do agree that Cozart probably should have been on the bench more in favor of Santiago with as bad as Cozart was this yr, and Santiago has did a descent job for us this yr when he did get playing time.

I definitely dont agree with all that Price did this year as a manager, but the manager wasnt the reason we stunk this year. Not being able to score runs and a crappy bullpen is why were where were at. Just like Dusty wasnt to blame for a inconsistent offense over the past few years either.

Manager is the farthest thing from a problem with this team, nor was the manager the problem before this year as far as Im concerned. Problem is we dont have enough guys that know how to hit, and the only guy who knows how to work counts and get on base has been injured most of the season this year. Until we get more hitters that understand how to hit were not going to get to far.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I do agree that Cozart probably should have been on the bench more in favor of Santiago with as bad as Cozart was this yr, and Santiago has did a descent job for us this yr when he did get playing time..

I completely disagree with that. Santiago was only slightly better than Cozart at the plate, and Cozart defensively is worlds better. I would give Negron a chance to win the job next year though in spring training. He is a solid defender, quick on the bases and has shown a bit of pop this year.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I completely disagree with that. Santiago was only slightly better than Cozart at the plate, and Cozart defensively is worlds better. I would give Negron a chance to win the job next year though in spring training. He is a solid defender, quick on the bases and has shown a bit of pop this year.

Santiago had a stretch when he was playing quite a bit he hit well, so thats what I was referring too, not his BA as a whole. Hard to judge bench guys when they dont get many at bats. I wasnt saying sit Cozart completely but I thought Cozart could have sit a little more than he did.

I do agree Negron deserves to be in the mix for ss next yr. He also plays solid defense, to which is the top priority of your ss anyway, with offense being a bonus. Its the reason why Cozart hasnt lost his job is because of his D.

i like Zach and had hope his bat would come around, but it hasnt, and he regressed this yr. Now maybe it was just a bad yr and he will hit closer to what he did last yr, although not good, good enough with his D to be a everyday player.

IM not sure Negron is a everyday player, but I think he has shown enough to have a shot next yr in ST'ing.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Santiago had a nice stretch where he hit the ball well, but overall was mediocre all year. Negron can play SS, 2B and 3B so I hope they use him as a super utility guy next year/possibly start if he wins the job.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Santiago had a nice stretch where he hit the ball well, but overall was mediocre all year. Negron can play SS, 2B and 3B so I hope they use him as a super utility guy next year/possibly start if he wins the job.

Negron can also play all the OF positions as well as ss,2nd and 3rd. Defensively he wont hurt you anywhere he plays. He is definitely a super utility guy with all that he can do. I think if he can show he can hit consistently he has or should have a good shot to win the everyday ss position. Its yet to be determined though if Negron can hit consistently, cause he never did hit amazingly in the minors. Cozart look like when he cam up that he might be a good hitter and that soured quickly,lol. I like Negron and would love to see him succeed, seems like a good kid.

I think if we can find a LF'er that can hit and everyone else comes back healthy and plays to their potential we can live with Cozart weak bat considering his D is solid, although he needs to hit better than he has this yr, if he coudl atleast bat around .250, that would be great, but if he continues to be possibly the worst hitter for a everyday player in baseball then we need to ook elsewhere. Cozarts OPS is actually the worst in all of baseball, so I guess technically he is the worst hitter in baseball for a everyday player,lol.

I just hope they can fix the issues that need fixedand were able to have guys come back healthy and play to their abilities next season. If BP,Votto and Bruce all are healthy and play to their capablities next yr to go with Mez,Frazier and Billy our offense could be very good. Votto has to come back strong next yr, cause if he dont, Id say were in dire trouble with a contract we cant get rid of.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I just hope they can fix the issues that need fixedand were able to have guys come back healthy and play to their abilities next season. If BP,Votto and Bruce all are healthy and play to their capablities next yr to go with Mez,Frazier and Billy our offense could be very good. Votto has to come back strong next yr, cause if he dont, Id say were in dire trouble with a contract we cant get rid of.

My only issue is I think we are getting everything we are going to get out of BP. His offensive numbers have regressed the last four seasons. Unless he pulls a Bret Boone and starts juicing up, I'm afraid he's going to fall off the cliff soon.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

My only issue is I think we are getting everything we are going to get out of BP. His offensive numbers have regressed the last four seasons. Unless he pulls a Bret Boone and starts juicing up, I'm afraid he's going to fall off the cliff soon.

I do think BP is on the decline, its only normal when you get the the age he is to drop off some, plus he has had quite a few injuries to his hands/wrist that would effect his hitting, especially as he ages. I do think if healthy he can be more effective offensively than he was this year though. BP still gives GG defense, so that we know we will get with him, even if the bat is on the decline.

Im more concerned about Votto and his production, cause his contract is what will be the killer if he dont produce. If Votto dont get back on track we have another Griffey Jr that could potentially sink us. Ownership has already spent more than I thought they would be able too, but Im not sure they can right off that bad deal like a big market can where it wont effect the teams ability to go out an get what they need.

I do think Votto will come back strong, and produce and drive in runs like he did before he got injured in 12. I dont see his Hr #'s be that of his MVP year as I think that was more of a fluke than anything cause Votto isnt really power hitter, he just happens to have power to all fields when he is right, but he dont go up swinging for the fence like others do. Votto has even said with every strike he lowers his expectation, and is just thinking about getting on base any way possible.

While I do think Votto can get back to being close to what he was anyway, I do worry that if he dont, his contract could end up strapping the team like Griffey Jr did. Thats why I was so shocked when they gave him that deal, cause of what previous ownership did to the team with Jr's bad deal. Being a big fan of Votto I was thrilled at the time thinking he will retire a Red, but did think from a business standpoint this might not be the best decision.

IMP thats what makes the Cards such a great organization, they seem to always make the right decision when it comes to getting rid of a players before they cripple the team with being ineffective, and expensive. I think the Reds might have let their fan side of things take over on giving Votto his deal, rather than looking at it from a business standpoint.

Heres hoping management can bring in the right pieces and we can stay healthy next yr. If healthy with fixing the bullpen and hopefully finding a LF'er that can hit we have the potential to have a great team.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

His contract was a franchise killer the day he signed it. I love Votto, but Jocketty was an idiot to give him that much money and that long term of a deal. This is the Reds, not the Yankees. They can't afford to have that much money locked up with a guy.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

His contract was a franchise killer the day he signed it. I love Votto, but Jocketty was an idiot to give him that much money and that long term of a deal. This is the Reds, not the Yankees. They can't afford to have that much money locked up with a guy.

I think with that contract being as much as it was, the final decision on that deal was with the owners not Walt. I do agree being a small market team and paying 1 guy that much isnt to smart. Thats why I said I think they looked at it as a fan instead of looking at it from a business standpoint, kind of let their fondness of Votto dictate the deal, rather than sound judgement. Of course they didnt know he would start having injury issues either, but it does always seem after player signs a big deal they either start to have injury issues, or production drops off after a big contract.

Hopefully he gets healthy and comes back strong next yr, I think he can, but this whole ordeal with Votto's injury has been odd. Your now even hearing grumbling out of the organization about Votto. Which I find odd, cause all you use to hear about Votto is how hard he worked and prepared. I find it hard to think that he has changed, and isnt the same guy. Its 1 thing for fans to say things, but when you start hearing rumors out of the organization it does make you wonder whats going on.

[slickdtc]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Hindsight is 20/20.

Votto was a top 3 guy when he got that contract. The NL MVP. He deserved every penny.

It's the length that kills. And injuries that have plagued him.

I think he hasn't had the chance to be healthy yet. I think he's rushed back every time, worried that people will think he's one of those guys who gets paid and disappears. It's been counterproductive, trying to play through injury.

I was so glad when we shut him down. This season was lost and he was hurting us. Now he's got that much more time to get himself right.

But I do think next year could be the breaking point. If it's another struggle, I can see talks of somehow getting out of that contract popping up. I can just as easily see Votto coming back with a monster year, too. Hoping for the best for him and our team.

I don't like the way he's been treated. We fought over this last offseason. The contract really changed the dynamic of how Votto was portrayed and I don't agree with it. That's driving a lot of this talk, the weight of expectations. I hope we don't drive a good player & a good guy out of town prematurely.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

He might have deserved that money, but you can't give him that kind of money when you are a small market team. Look at what Tampa Bay has done. You trade your stars at the end and rebuild, or if you can sign them to a deal like Evan Longoria's that doesn't destroy the team. Add in awful contracts like the ones to Phillips, Broxton, Marshall, etc and it's a bad formula and not a surprise why the Reds are where they are.

I saw an article that Jocketty is coming back next year so I will probably tune out the Reds for next year too.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Hindsight is 20/20.

Votto was a top 3 guy when he got that contract. The NL MVP. He deserved every penny.

It's the length that kills. And injuries that have plagued him.

I think he hasn't had the chance to be healthy yet. I think he's rushed back every time, worried that people will think he's one of those guys who gets paid and disappears. It's been counterproductive, trying to play through injury.

I was so glad when we shut him down. This season was lost and he was hurting us. Now he's got that much more time to get himself right.

But I do think next year could be the breaking point. If it's another struggle, I can see talks of somehow getting out of that contract popping up. I can just as easily see Votto coming back with a monster year, too. Hoping for the best for him and our team.

I don't like the way he's been treated. We fought over this last offseason. The contract really changed the dynamic of how Votto was portrayed and I don't agree with it. That's driving a lot of this talk, the weight of expectations. I hope we don't drive a good player & a good guy out of town prematurely.

I agree it was the length not the $'s, I should have stated that, I never agree with giving any guy that long of a deal. I wouldnt give a guy in his early 20's a 10 yr deal let alone a guy that was almost 30. Fans shouldnt be mad at Votto for the deal, if your going to blame anyone that on owners and Walt.

I do think its sad how Votto has been portrayed this year. Not sure how anyone could think Votto doesnt want to play. My gosh the guy was trying to play injured and it was sad to see him trying to play on 1 leg.

IMO Reds fans need to be suportive of Votto cause he isnt going anywhere, so people better pull for him to get healthy and play well cause with his contract no team will want him, so were stuck with him.

I think he will get back to hitting the way we all know he can. Ive seen this happen to guys, they have a few oustanding years then have couple down years or injury plagued years, then they get things turned back around. A healthy Votto is guaranteed to hit .300, he just needs to get healthy.

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Dont forget God awful Bailey deal

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Dont forget God awful Bailey deal

Honestly that deal isn't that bad by itself, but when you factor in the 28428023 other bad deals Jocketty has made it looks awful.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Jocketty officially back on a multiyear deal. See you guys in 2020.