Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

The balance you're seeing for the most part is vs the CPU. You're not seeing the people play the stupid ways you find online. The exact same balance is present in 2K10, until people start playing like they always do. You're going to see just as many dunks this year as last....because the problem wasn't as much the game as it was the way people played it, and that's not going to change.

Every single year, they have improved this....they have made some tweaks that some people would consider steps backward....but every single year it has gotten better overall. And yet here YOU are, trying to tell somebody who plays on the ball that it is impossible play on the ball. If it involves any type of learning curve, and there is a simpler way to get W's in the short-term....most people online will take that route, to the detriment of actually ever learning or improving their game. They've done it every single year....what honestly makes you think this year will be any different? They can only make defense so easy, and this year, despite all the complaints about the defensive stance and the CPU AI, the incredible recovery speed of the defense made playing on the ball relatively simple. Still nobody learned.

Assuming again ? ... I said that it is impossible to play on ball D ? ... humm!?, maybe its not an assumption, maybe its more like a purposelly misrepresentation of what I said ... let me state myself again:
The game has flaws and there are instances in a game were you cannot effectively counter those flaws by just playing on ball d.

I agree with you that the main problem is how people play the game and it is not by the nature of things ... if you are a sim player, you remain sim no matter what ... if you are not a sim player, then you will play unsim at times ... like you have stated to do.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

This is where we SERIOUSLY differ. This is where the whole notion of "sim" went wrong in my opinion. If at any point, you leave your matchup (the other player) and let the CPU guard him...who are you to judge how he beats the CPU? The moment you made it him vs the CPU, your opinion on the way he scores is irrelevant.

Here's a quick example: baseline abusers. I would agree driving baseline every time could be perceived as an exploit. Why? Because the offensive simplicity of doing a hesitation move then running baseline compared to the defensive difficulty in stopping this on the ball....it would be easy to judge this as overpowered to newer users (or experienced users who haven't played a lot of on the ball). Its hard to defend and easy to pull off. The moment it stops being YOU defending it though...the moment a player let's the CPU guard the player, the whole idea of it being overpowered is meaningless. The offense is forced to get past the CPU in order to get to the user controlled defender....it would be the wise choice to use the most effective move you know to get past that defender.

Once it isn't YOU vs THEM...the entire notion of a sim game is nothing more than a hypocritical way to complain about the way your opponent plays.

to expound upon this statement it has a trickle down affect on the game...especially those wanting a "SIM" game. The Off ball defender who says i'm sim isn't taking this into account. They want the ball handler to use it's offense for an open shot, all the while they are taking every angle causing disruption along the way.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

You missed my point. I didn't challenge you to a game. People rate your gameplay after every game....it's called feedback. What's your feedback....how do people rate your game, because I can just about guarantee it isn't as highly rated as mine.

The other point is this....I don't call people cheesers. I don't care how you play. My problem is with people who expect the offense to play by certain "sim" standards, but then play defense in a way that encourages their opponent to "cheese".

Oh, and yes, I did completely agree with your sim description....but off the ball defense actually runs counter to a lot of your "pillars" of sim. Unless you meant all that only applies to offense?

I didnt miss the point ... I wasnt also referring to a game but to a poll made in a thread within the main forum and also referred you to this very own thread too.

I will check my vip and let you know about my level of online "unappreciation".

Sim is a style of play that you dont turn on or off;
Sim is a style of play were you dont feel handcuffed when you dont do what the defense lets you but by not doing what you were supposed to;
Sim is an uncounsious response that mimics how the game is played in real life, but within the fairness that should be accounted within the realm of videogames.

Within this sim description, where does off ball D lies as unsim ?

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

to expound upon this statement it has a trickle down affect on the game...especially those wanting a "SIM" game. The Off ball defender who says i'm sim isn't taking this into account. They want the ball handler to use it's offense for an open shot, all the while they are taking every angle causing disruption along the way.

And there it lies, within the deepthness of such intricated words, the whole point: to be or not to be ... kauf, kauf ! ... sim. Yes it lies on how you react to such thing ... do you take your 31st three of the night or do you take a mid j ? ... do you go for a baseline drive instead,then again for your 20th time ? ... do you feel good about making excesive moves, plays and shots because the other one is letting you ? ... humm!, dont be naive, you are not throwing away your chances of winning by doing so and if you think that way, I reestate: you are not as sim as you think you are.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

So its now a contest ... humm!? ... I dont accept the propposal, not because I know I may not win but because I dont stick the dagger into a fallen opponent ... my friend, of all challenges, that one could not be more impropper ... it would be like abussing, and I, no cheeser am.

For your info, peopple has already voted ... and if you scrooll throughout the main forum you will find the thread with such inquiry ... and if you also scrooll throughout this very same thread and count, you will find your answers.

Then again, someone who abusses moves and plays not only call others cheesers but calls himself sim ? ... Assuming you were right (something I normally dont do, at least not as others), since when does a rabbit makes fun of a dunkey for having big and long ears ? ... To say that you abuse the lane because others are giving you the lane ... is like saying that because a robber is an outlaw, you, as a cop, should act outside of the law too ... and I thought noone could add more to this nonesense.

And to say that you agree with my sim description and then denied with your next comment, its plain and simple: hypocresy.

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tcat colSpan=4>View Poll Results: How do u play nba 2k11? </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">I play Sim </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">76</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">55.07%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">I play to win (no cheating envolve) </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">62</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">44.93%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


That Poll is most disheartening, to see how many people do anything to win.... However the Simmers are still in the lead.

Your second part of your statement is ridiculous, if you give me the lane i'm going to take the lane every single time.... And still be 100% Sim. Now if I were to just bang, bang, circle, circle my way into the lane, it would definitely be cheese. That's the difference.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

And there it lies, within the deepthness of such intricated words, the whole point: to be or not to be ... kauf, kauf ! ... sim. Yes it lies on how you react to such thing ... do you take your 31st three of the night or do you take a mid j ? ... do you go for a baseline drive instead,then again for your 20th time ? ... do you feel good about making excesive moves, plays and shots because the other one is letting you ? ... humm!, dont be naive, you are not throwing away your chances of winning by doing so and if you think that way, I reestate: you are not as sim as you think you are.

again if you get 30 threes within the flow of the offense... it's sim, but if you just run down, and jack a 3 30 times Unsim.... How is this not perfectly clear to you?

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tcat colSpan=4>View Poll Results: How do u play nba 2k11? </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">I play Sim </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">76</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">55.07%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">I play to win (no cheating envolve) </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">62</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">44.93%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


That Poll is most disheartening, to see how many people do anything to win.... However the Simmers are still in the lead.

Your second part of your statement is ridiculous, if you give me the lane i'm going to take the lane every single time.... And still be 100% Sim. Now if I were to just bang, bang, circle, circle my way into the lane, it would definitely be cheese. That's the difference.

Again, making a selective convenient approach by totally relaying on an assupmtion ... where does it says off ball d ? ... if I had made it in time to such poll I would have voted sim ... even half of the off ball d users that have posted here are said to be sim too ... another impropper and vague response that I will let it pass.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tcat colSpan=4>View Poll Results: How do u play nba 2k11? </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">I play Sim </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">76</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">55.07%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">I play to win (no cheating envolve) </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">62</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">44.93%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


That Poll is most disheartening, to see how many people do anything to win.... However the Simmers are still in the lead.

Your second part of your statement is ridiculous, if you give me the lane i'm going to take the lane every single time.... And still be 100% Sim. Now if I were to just bang, bang, circle, circle my way into the lane, it would definitely be cheese. That's the difference.

I will stick to my word and style and not show you the other poll results (dont want to abuse), but for the sake of showing you what an assumption it is not, here is the link ... go check it.

http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...se-cheese.html

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Again, making a selective convenient approach by totally relaying on an assupmtion ... where does it says off ball d ? ... if I had made it in time to such poll I would have voted sim ... even half of the off ball d users that have posted here are said to be sim too ... another impropper and vague response that I will let it pass.

you've been here since the beginning...no need in feigning ignorance. This poll was made in direct opposition to this thread.... in fact It was brought up in that thread...

[Flips House]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Sim is a style of play that you dont turn on or off;

So when you stop defending the one human controlled player because you think he might abuse some perceived exploit, you don't consider that turning off?

Sim is a style of play were you dont feel handcuffed when you dont do what the defense lets you but by not doing what you were supposed to;

So when the defense handcuffs the offense by choosing which matchups they will go head to head (ie: the only matchup my opponent will defend himself is Dwight Howard guarding Brooke Lopez)....that doesn't bother you?

Sim is an uncounsious response that mimics how the game is played in real life, but within the fairness that should be accounted within the realm of videogames.

This is the key one. You want fair? There is only one player your opponent is controlling, the rest are CPU....if you want fair, the very first step is being responsible for actually defending your opponent (the other gamer) instead of making excuses why you can't.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I will stick to my word and style and not show you the other poll results (dont want to abuse), but for the sake of showing you what an assumption it is not, here is the link ... go check it.

http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...se-cheese.html

the third option skews that POll, because what I read is if you just select "No" that means you can do anything on defense and not be considered cheese..... because the third option is depends on how you use it.... The most telling part of that Poll is the straight out "no's....

[ffpp]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

But the 3rd option *is* the right one.

I for one have given an example where off ball D is clearly cheesy and gave a couple more on where I think it is perfectly legitimate.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

So when you stop defending the one human controlled player because you think he might abuse some perceived exploit, you don't consider that turning off?

So you go and do what sims are expected to do: an exploit ?

So when the defense handcuffs the offense by choosing which matchups they will go head to head (ie: the only matchup my opponent will defend himself is Dwight Howard guarding Brooke Lopez)....that doesn't bother you?

Of course, it does ... thats no propper off ball d and as I have repeatedly said, it is how you do off ball d that it is unsim or cheese.

This is the key one. You want fair? There is only one player your opponent is controlling, the rest are CPU....if you want fair, the very first step is being responsible for actually defending your opponent (the other gamer) instead of making excuses why you can't.

Fairness ? Going by your own statements (and partially mine too), playing off ball d gets your defense into scramble and chaos mode, therefor easily and effectivelly countering it ... and you are asking about fairness ?

[Flips House]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Wow.

Are you using a forum poll to try and prove something???

You called me out as a cheeser...I said let the people decide who is cheesy, we get feedback votes after each game, a pretty standard way of telling who is a cheeser and who is legit...who's e-c@ck is bigger. And this is what you come up with?...some forum poll about how people choose to play? What does that even mean?

So...stop posting unrelated polls and just admit your feedback. BTW when I looked, it said you had zero games played, 100% feedback off of only 2 votes. Please tell me that isn't right....because if you've been arguing this vehemently over something you have zero experience with, I'm going to be upset with myself for wasting time.

BTW, my GT is Meinders 415 if you want to check how people have rated me....

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

you've been here since the beginning...no need in feigning ignorance. This poll was made in direct opposition to this thread.... in fact It was brought up in that thread...

the third option skews that POll, because what I read is if you just select "No" that means you can do anything on defense and not be considered cheese..... because the third option is depends on how you use it.... The most telling part of that Poll is the straight out "no's....

Help me get this clear ... your poll is better than mine because as vague as it is it is convenient to your argument ... my poll, on the contrary, it is not valide because while being more precise, it does not convenient you ?

Boy, you are really, really not contributing to your cause at all ... this has gotten to the point of having an argument for the sake of you not recognizing that you are wrong.