Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Yeah I don't purposely pass the ball around just to get to the person the opponent is guarding, but sometimes i'll pass the ball into the post and boom... defender switched immediately Just makes me feel like I'm playing 2 on 1 b ball.. Ah well though

Yeah, I will usually switch in those situations if I am guarding the post, but just so I can play realistic basketball in sending a double from either the strong or weak side depending on who I switch to is guarding. I believe there is strategy to that IMO. But if you could actually play post defense in the game, block shots or prevent someone from a up and under then maybe I would stay home to play D myself. The game almost forced you to switch unless you wanted to get scored on.

On that note though I used to like how the speed burst button was the strength in the post button as well for the post with the ball and the defender guarding the post. It felt like it was a real battle in the post. I cant remember what year that was but it was a earlier in the franchise game. 2003-04? Anyways, it became a cat and mouse because if opponent tried to make a spin move or move while I WASN'T holding the RT then he wouldn't go anywhere. Not sure if any of that made sense!? LOL! I do miss that though! It made guarding the post FUN!

[ThaGenecyst]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Yeah, I will usually switch in those situations if I am guarding the post, but just so I can play realistic basketball in sending a double from either the strong or weak side depending on who I switch to is guarding. I believe there is strategy to that IMO. But if you could actually play post defense in the game, block shots or prevent someone from a up and under then maybe I would stay home to play D myself. The game almost forced you to switch unless you wanted to get scored on.

On that note though I used to like how the speed burst button was the strength in the post button as well for the post with the ball and the defender guarding the post. It felt like it was a real battle in the post. I cant remember what year that was but it was a earlier in the franchise game. 2003-04? Anyways, it became a cat and mouse because if opponent tried to make a spin move or move while I WASN'T holding the RT then he wouldn't go anywhere. Not sure if any of that made sense!? LOL! I do miss that though! It made guarding the post FUN!

aahh see that's different and i have no quarrels with that at all.. i'm more so salty at those who just run from the offense completely

[Vast]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

aahh see that's different and i have no quarrels with that at all.. i'm more so salty at those who just run from the offense completely

Yeah i agree with you. I play alot of off ball D, but i do not run from the offense. If I'm playing D with the PF and you pass it to the PF I will stay and play defense.

If you start murdering me down low, then I will switch to bring the double team.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I defend the post pretty good IMO, therfor I almost never need to double team there, unless is a missmatch ... then I call for it and if I dont like who is comming to help me I change to rotate the players until I left the weakest offensive threat alone rather than that of my help d defender.

I have encountered such always evading players and yes they are annoying but they also are one of the weakers, because with all their running and switching, they put their own defense into chaos, creating far more opportunities for a methodic and organized offense.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

LOL! Yeah he really hasn't given us any reason for us to believe he has any knowledge of true basketball strategy through simulation. His ONLY view is guard the ball which all 5 guys are taught to do in see ball see man rules which us old school coaches call having your pistols out. Meaning the help defense should always be ready for help. There are a plethora of defensive strategies one can use that IS SIM when playing off ball. He tends to backtrack on his original post here and there but never clarifies the full rule to the detail which I think he needs to do in the original post. We all know SIM is open to interpretation and should be the type of basketball we see every night on tv. New Moon keeps saying if he wanted to play against the computer than he would. Ball on ball is suppossed to be human against human but basketball is a 5 on 5 game. It's a game of strategy. Maybe NBA Jam would be a better game for the moon?! No need to worry about help defense there! That way you can spin your way and dunk all you want without having me there to swat your BS!

So, in closing and for example if I was to play with a team with the best defenders ever such as Hakeem, Rodman, Dikembe, Ben Wallace (in his prime) etc unfortunately I can not play as them because unless the guy they are guarding has the ball I can't play as them because in his mind thats cheese?! How stupid is that rule?! I agree with most all SIM rules with the exception of this one!!! Also, someone earlier in this thread stated that you can play with LeBron or Kobe and score 60 in a game and still play SIM! I agree 100%! It's all in style. Now, without help Defense and helping out on a guy like Kobe or LeBron 60 could and would be a common thing with only on ball D allowed which is not realistic or SIM!

Just my opinion though although thread shows it's the MAJORITY!

you're right back to square one, are you telling me that I haven't offered solutions that allows you to defend any scenario on ball? You continue to try and defend your cheese defense, and I'm not going for it. At least not in a SIM game.

So the guy who started this 5000 view, 468 post thread just want to wiggle and dunk, and play NBA JAM..... You truly are a dense one. I also have some news for you my man...there is no way you can score 60 points in a sim game with Kobe scoring 60. Now I know you're screaming saying he don't know what he's talking about, he stupid...blah, blah, blah... I know this because I know a mental midget when I hear one. 60 points in a 5 min lobby game is CHEESE at the highest level. instead of giving 60 points how about we look over Kobe's 81 point performance....

Kobe scored 81 points on January 22nd 2006 vs the Toronto Raptors. Now Kobe played 41 mins, and took 46 shots, Hmmmm wow! unfortunately for your cheesers there were 88 shots taken in the game.... guess what a quick mathematical formula and you see he took 59.52% of the shots. Now do you see the key word in that statement? Yea, I know you don't ... it's he played 41 mins!!!! a basketball game is 48 mins, were playing 5 min quarters online. you Drop 60+ with Kobe in a 20 min game you sir are a CHEESER!!

[drewbs]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

you're right back to square one, are you telling me that I haven't offered solutions that allows you to defend any scenario on ball? You continue to try and defend your cheese defense, and I'm not going for it. At least not in a SIM game.

So the guy who started this 5000 view, 468 post thread just want to wiggle and dunk, and play NBA JAM..... You truly are a dense one. I also have some news for you my man...there is no way you can score 60 points in a sim game with Kobe scoring 60. Now I know you're screaming saying he don't know what he's talking about, he stupid...blah, blah, blah... I know this because I know a mental midget when I hear one. 60 points in a 5 min lobby game is CHEESE at the highest level. instead of giving 60 points how about we look over Kobe's 81 point performance....

Kobe scored 81 points on January 22nd 2006 vs the Toronto Raptors. Now Kobe played 41 mins, and took 46 shots, Hmmmm wow! unfortunately for your cheesers there were 88 shots taken in the game.... guess what a quick mathematical formula and you see he took 59.52% of the shots. Now do you see the key word in that statement? Yea, I know you don't ... it's he played 41 mins!!!! a basketball game is 48 mins, were playing 5 min quarters online. you Drop 60+ with Kobe in a 20 min game you sir are a CHEESER!!

In which about 95% of the responses are telling you how dumb your rules are. Please don't view this as some sort of accomplishment.

And you haven't provided any solutions for anything. Your "solutions" only work if you're talking about a 2 on 2 game, not a 5 on 5 game. Team defense is positional, and it's positional based on all 5 players on the court. Learn something about basketball.

[h3kno]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Taking a Loss

When you start an online game, each player is playing under the assumption that both players have agreed to play a complete game. For some reason, a large number of gamers out there just can’t accept that they will not win each game. An “All Sim” player will play ever game win or lose, because that’s the nature of games….someone’s gotta win, someone’s gotta lose. If you’re the winner everytime, that means that someone else is the loser everytime. The online community is probably more self-centered than runway models. Everybody wants to believe that they are the very best, and will not accept that sometimes either there’s somebody better, or their opponent just outplays them. Instead of playing out the game and giving their opponent the satisfaction of the win, they pull the plug on the game and simply drop or quit. I know that it still registers as a win (well in most cases), but that’s not the issue. If you play out your wins, play out your losses. There’s really four good reasons to play your losses fully out:
1) This game runs on momentum….you never know, a comeback is ALWAYS possible. A lot of times people will quit still early in the first half. I know I’ve come back from some huge first half deficits.
2) You’ll learn more. If it’s a certain loss, you can play with your rosters, you can experiment with new plays, etc. etc. etc. Just consider it good practice time.
3) Wins don’t mean nearly as much to you if you don’t take losses. It’s just simple human psychology. Everybody wants to win every time, but if you actually do….eventually you’ll even get bored with that. I personally like a close loss a whole lot better than a big win.
4) People will respect you more. Your record will look a WHOLE lot more respectable with a L than a drop or a quit. I know that’s the first thing I look at when deciding whether to accept a challenge. If I see more quits and drops than registered losses, I immediately question what type of gamer they are.

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I haven't played online in a while, but I disagree with this logic here. If i'm getting killed in the fourth quarter and there's no time to catch up, it would do me better and my opponent to quit and take the loss instead of wasting more of his time and my time just so we can finish out a game.

I remember when I used to play chess, people would play it out til the end just so they can say they finished the game and never just tip their king over and admit defeat in the middle of the game and it would drive me crazy, cause it wasted everyone's time (btw, it was only for fun, the chess part. No tournaments or anything, but there were other people who wanted to play).

So I think if you quit when you know you're outmatched and have no chance of getting back into the game, its better for everyone. I concur with most of what you said though

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

In which about 95% of the responses are telling you how dumb your rules are. Please don't view this as some sort of accomplishment.

And you haven't provided any solutions for anything. Your "solutions" only work if you're talking about a 2 on 2 game, not a 5 on 5 game. Team defense is positional, and it's positional based on all 5 players on the court. Learn something about basketball.

Your lack of understanding is disturbing. I didn't write these rules, they were written way back in 2004, by a person who used the handle Fliphouse. With that said, they are so clearly written, and concise that to argue them without even attempting to use logic in your argument is wrong. You can't drop blanket statements on me, such as 95% of the people agree with whomever, you need to back your words up with whys, and why fors. Try again, I know you want to defend your cheese defense, but you are not going to pull the wool over my eyes and tell me you're sim. You're not.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I haven't played online in a while, but I disagree with this logic here. If i'm getting killed in the fourth quarter and there's no time to catch up, it would do me better and my opponent to quit and take the loss instead of wasting more of his time and my time just so we can finish out a game.

I remember when I used to play chess, people would play it out til the end just so they can say they finished the game and never just tip their king over and admit defeat in the middle of the game and it would drive me crazy, cause it wasted everyone's time (btw, it was only for fun, the chess part. No tournaments or anything, but there were other people who wanted to play).

So I think if you quit when you know you're outmatched and have no chance of getting back into the game, its better for everyone. I concur with most of what you said though

there is a finite amount of time that you have agreed with your opponent, when you hit start. In a blow out game, I in the past would perfect a play, or go deep into my bench.

Now I do understand what you are saying, and it makes logical sense in certain instances.... I just don't think it applies here.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

No doubt, I play with different guys on Defense throughout the whole game although I will mainly play with the teams best defender on the court the majority. It really depends on what the other team or player is doing throughout the game to what I will do as the game go's on, but it is just as annoying to have a guy who will only pass the ball around all game to get the ball to a guy who you are guarding no matter if you switch to another guy. He isn't playing any sort of basketball strategy besides trying to play 1 on 1 with me. That isn't SIM either. With the way the D was online and wih the lag it's an automatic mismatch, if that is fixed then it's not a big issue. That remains to be seen online this year though.

Out the Cheesers own mouth.... Classic

By the way if you're in a lag filled game, how about quitting out, or look for games with high latency rates....Good grief!

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Yeah, I will usually switch in those situations if I am guarding the post, but just so I can play realistic basketball in sending a double from either the strong or weak side depending on who I switch to is guarding. I believe there is strategy to that IMO. But if you could actually play post defense in the game, block shots or prevent someone from a up and under then maybe I would stay home to play D myself. The game almost forced you to switch unless you wanted to get scored on.

On that note though I used to like how the speed burst button was the strength in the post button as well for the post with the ball and the defender guarding the post. It felt like it was a real battle in the post. I cant remember what year that was but it was a earlier in the franchise game. 2003-04? Anyways, it became a cat and mouse because if opponent tried to make a spin move or move while I WASN'T holding the RT then he wouldn't go anywhere. Not sure if any of that made sense!? LOL! I do miss that though! It made guarding the post FUN!

and he confirms his cheese defense the very next post.... WoW

So let me get this right, you use the post player until the offensive player passes the ball to the post, the man you are ....then you switch men? lol You sir are a joke....lol

CHEESE

[drewbs]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Your lack of understanding is disturbing. I didn't write these rules, they were written way back in 2004, by a person who used the handle Fliphouse. With that said, they are so clearly written, and concise that to argue them without even attempting to use logic in your argument is wrong. You can't drop blanket statements on me, such as 95% of the people agree with whomever, you need to back your words up with whys, and why fors. Try again, I know you want to defend your cheese defense, but you are not going to pull the wool over my eyes and tell me you're sim. You're not.

Perfect example trying to sound so smart that you forget to actually saying anything. You've ignored every statement I (and most other posters for that matter) have made about actual basketball. I don't think you even know what a blanket statement is. I HAVE used logic in my argument, with the entire basis that to play an accurate, NBA style, positional defense, you sometimes have to utilize off the ball control. Your simpleton view of basketball is the problem. You think that this is a game of one on one. This isn't 2004 Jethro, the 2k games have changed since then. If playing off the ball on defense is cheesing, then so is playing off the ball on offense. You can direct players to specific spots on the floor on offense, but you can't on defense? If you tell a guy to cut to the basket off a back screen, I can't have his defender follow him? I am forced to have a man wide open under the basket? And NO, zone does NOT fix this. Please get out of your YMCA rec league idea of basketball strategy.

I don't care about defending my "cheese" defense, I don't even play online. I use off the ball defense sometimes to make sure my help defenders are in position to actually... you know, help. My issue is your haughty "I'm right, so all of you are wrong" attitude which is simply just annoying to read. You take this "sim" thing so seriously that I wonder if you are actually into basketball, or just basketball video games? I have a hard time believing that anyone who knows basketball on a strategic level (and I mean *actual* basketball where you get up and move around rather than sitting on your *** eating chips) would ever think these rules are any sort of reflection of real basketball.

I must have "sim" thought out all wrong. I always thought "sim" referred to playing the game in a style that was true to life and realistic while maintaining fairness and not exploiting holes in the game. Apparently this is not the case. You cannot do any of these with your rules.

1) Off the ball control on offense is unfair, you can control Kobe and have him get great post position off the ball on the CPU defender with EASE. All at the push of a button. But you cannot defend this manually because that is "unfair." Ok.

2) Playing this simpleton version of NBA basketball where you simply switch defenders every time the ball is passed with complete disregard to anticipation of how the offensive play is going to play out is highly realistic. Because real NBA defense is never based on predictive positioning, right? That's why NBA scouts go out and scout how teams play, right? Or do they just sit around and play with their dicks all game?

3) Shooting mid range jumpers when the defense is giving you the lane all game is realistic, because that's what players in the NBA does right?

True basketball is a game of back and forth. The offense makes the defense adjust, and the defense adjusts making the offense change things up, which puts pressure on the defense to adjust again, etc. etc. THAT is how real basketball is. If an offensive player plays "sim" basketball to reflect real life, why can't the defensive player?

[ffpp]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Cheese, Cheese, Cheese. This seems to be the universal argument here when anybody doesn't agree 100% to the rules in the original posts.

If those rules where written down in 2004, maybe they don't even apply fully anymore. Maybe games are played a bit different now. Don't play online, just a suggestion.

[drewbs]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Cheese, Cheese, Cheese. This seems to be the universal argument here when anybody doesn't agree 100% to the rules in the original posts.

If those rules where written down in 2004, maybe they don't even apply fully anymore. Maybe games are played a bit different now. Don't play online, just a suggestion.

Seriously the fact that these rules are from 2004 only make them more dated.

In 2004 there were no real player tendencies, there were about 4 plays per team with no team specific players and no off the ball control on offense. It's funny how offensive players can utilize these things today to simulate how real teams and players play and yet defensive players can't simulate how real defensive teams defend team specific plays and real player tendencies.

[AdamBa17]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

i used to think like you

you'd do well to read this article

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html