Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

[SaC_KiNg09]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

It's a pointless arguement with new moon and I gave up on him. He has 1 view, doesn't even try to understand another view besides his own nor does he understand true basketball and the nuances of defense and the strategy behind it. 90% of this thread and the poll in it all point to our way of thinking so just write off new moon to "ignorant" and let it go is my advise! LOL!

Agreed. I wouldnt say he is ignorant but it seems that he is just set in his ways. Let the guy preach what he wants and if he thinks thats the best way for HIM to play let HIM play that way, no need to argue his view.

[lofeazy]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

2.) so while you're running around defending someone who doesn't have the ball who is guarding the Human controlled ball handler?

The CPU.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

to clearly answer your question of what does sim mean, it means not to cheese, exploit, cheat, abuse, or anything that doesn't look true to life. Now of course the literal term means sim - simulation, or a true representation of the nba. This of course isn't the NBA, rather a video game. But for arguments sake without muddying the water, when sim is mentioned it means the first definition.

I posted before that I would make no further comments about this nonesense but I had to as soon as I read that comment ... I am glad to read that you finally admited that off ball d is sim (even tho you did it uncounsiously ... lol ... seems contradictory but not as much as this whole thread ... double lol).

As you pointed out: if it is not an exploit, if it is not an abuse, if it is not cheating, if it does look true to life representation ... then it is sim, and off ball D (played avoiding to fall into all these considerings) is exactly that: sim ... holly stuburness dunkeys, batman !, it evens gains a more meaningfull strong stance as you also correctly stated that this is rather a videogame.

I am extremly happy not that you have agree with what some of us (not all, really) have been saying, but that there is finally a slight bean of light at the end of your dark, black whole like, tunnel shortsight (does not implies a second intention, just in case).

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

The ball is where the action is

False

A straight up sim player will almost never double team anybody ALWAYS

Really? Doesn't look like this is being based off of real basketball at all

This isn’t that big of a deal, but it’s definitely something that bothers me.

lol, these are quickly turning into rules that 'make the game easier for me'.

Typically, if a “No Sim” player isn’t a chronic double teamer, he likes to sit in a zone all game long. I’ve already covered that man-to-man is a staple in the NBA

Obviously yes man to man is ran 98% of the time in the NBA, but that certainly doesn't make zone an unsim strategy. It is still a legit defense, and a defense some teams employ from game to game. It doesn't short circuit anything, it requires the offense to simply adjust, as it should. Certain things work against it, certain things don't.

Quick Posters

First have to understand how critical off ball D is and stop writing it off. Once you do that and play some off ball you can stop the quick posts.

Pick and Rollers

Same as above, requires good off ball D, and the use of the double team in some situations to stop.

[SaC_KiNg09]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

False

Really? Doesn't look like this is being based off of real basketball at all

lol, these are quickly turning into rules that 'make the game easier for me'.


Obviously yes man to man is ran 98% of the time in the NBA, but that certainly doesn't make zone an unsim strategy. It is still a legit defense, and a defense some teams employ from game to game. It doesn't short circuit anything, it requires the offense to simply adjust, as it should. Certain things work against it, certain things don't.

First have to understand how critical off ball D is and stop writing it off. Once you do that and play some off ball you can stop the quick posts.

Same as above, requires good off ball D, and the use of the double team in some situations to stop.

Yeah Take the Suns for example. They ran heavy zone in their playoff matchup with the Lakers this year. So even though man is heavily used in the NBA there are exceptions.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I posted before that I would make no further comments about this nonesense but I had to as soon as I read that comment ... I am glad to read that you finally admited that off ball d is sim (even tho you did it uncounsiously ... lol ... seems contradictory but not as much as this whole thread ... double lol).

As you pointed out: if it is not an exploit, if it is not an abuse, if it is not cheating, if it does look true to life representation ... then it is sim, and off ball D (played avoiding to fall into all these considerings) is exactly that: sim ... holly stuburness dunkeys, batman !, it evens gains a more meaningfull strong stance as you also correctly stated that this is rather a videogame.

I am extremly happy not that you have agree with what some of us (not all, really) have been saying, but that there is finally a slight bean of light at the end of your dark, black whole like, tunnel shortsight (does not implies a second intention, just in case).

You not comprehending what I wrote is not a surprise to me..... let me put it this way. If you cheat, abuse, exploit, use the same play, use the same move, don't shoot jumpers, dunk all the time, cherry pick, full court press all the time, double team all the time, put point guards at the center pos., and yes even play off ball D as your primary way of playing defense. It is all CHEESE.

now you do any of these things for any amount of time, turn in your SIM CARD.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

False

Really? Doesn't look like this is being based off of real basketball at all

lol, these are quickly turning into rules that 'make the game easier for me'.


Obviously yes man to man is ran 98% of the time in the NBA, but that certainly doesn't make zone an unsim strategy. It is still a legit defense, and a defense some teams employ from game to game. It doesn't short circuit anything, it requires the offense to simply adjust, as it should. Certain things work against it, certain things don't.

First have to understand how critical off ball D is and stop writing it off. Once you do that and play some off ball you can stop the quick posts.

Same as above, requires good off ball D, and the use of the double team in some situations to stop.

What you do in a Cheese filled game makes me no nevermind. However when you are playing a 100% sim game you don't have to worry about someone abusing programming flaws in the game. The tactics you use to stop a cheesers become null and void in a sim game, in fact they become....wait for it.....wait for it.......CHEESE DEFENSE. I can't be anymore clearer than that.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I posted before that I would make no further comments about this nonesense but I had to as soon as I read that comment ... I am glad to read that you finally admited that off ball d is sim (even tho you did it uncounsiously ... lol ... seems contradictory but not as much as this whole thread ... double lol).

As you pointed out: if it is not an exploit, if it is not an abuse, if it is not cheating, if it does look true to life representation ... then it is sim, and off ball D (played avoiding to fall into all these considerings) is exactly that: sim ... holly stuburness dunkeys, batman !, it evens gains a more meaningfull strong stance as you also correctly stated that this is rather a videogame.

I am extremly happy not that you have agree with what some of us (not all, really) have been saying, but that there is finally a slight bean of light at the end of your dark, black whole like, tunnel shortsight (does not implies a second intention, just in case).

LOL! Yeah he really hasn't given us any reason for us to believe he has any knowledge of true basketball strategy through simulation. His ONLY view is guard the ball which all 5 guys are taught to do in see ball see man rules which us old school coaches call having your pistols out. Meaning the help defense should always be ready for help. There are a plethora of defensive strategies one can use that IS SIM when playing off ball. He tends to backtrack on his original post here and there but never clarifies the full rule to the detail which I think he needs to do in the original post. We all know SIM is open to interpretation and should be the type of basketball we see every night on tv. New Moon keeps saying if he wanted to play against the computer than he would. Ball on ball is suppossed to be human against human but basketball is a 5 on 5 game. It's a game of strategy. Maybe NBA Jam would be a better game for the moon?! No need to worry about help defense there! That way you can spin your way and dunk all you want without having me there to swat your BS!

So, in closing and for example if I was to play with a team with the best defenders ever such as Hakeem, Rodman, Dikembe, Ben Wallace (in his prime) etc unfortunately I can not play as them because unless the guy they are guarding has the ball I can't play as them because in his mind thats cheese?! How stupid is that rule?! I agree with most all SIM rules with the exception of this one!!! Also, someone earlier in this thread stated that you can play with LeBron or Kobe and score 60 in a game and still play SIM! I agree 100%! It's all in style. Now, without help Defense and helping out on a guy like Kobe or LeBron 60 could and would be a common thing with only on ball D allowed which is not realistic or SIM!

Just my opinion though although thread shows it's the MAJORITY!

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

What you do in a Cheese filled game makes me no nevermind. However when you are playing a 100% sim game you don't have to worry about someone abusing programming flaws in the game. The tactics you use to stop a cheesers become null and void in a sim game, in fact they become....wait for it.....wait for it.......CHEESE DEFENSE. I can't be anymore clearer than that.

The short and simple definition of playing sim is playing realistically.

So with that said please explain what's unrealistic about zone defense or playing off the ball? NBA teams don't play zone or off ball D?

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

You not comprehending what I wrote is not a surprise to me..... let me put it this way. If you cheat, abuse, exploit, use the same play, use the same move, don't shoot jumpers, dunk all the time, cherry pick, full court press all the time, double team all the time, put point guards at the center pos., and yes even play off ball D as your primary way of playing defense. It is all CHEESE.

now you do any of these things for any amount of time, turn in your SIM CARD.

Again, let me congratulate you as what I saw was not a fluke, but a real light bean within that blackhole tunnel.

Let me paraphrase a "friend" of mine ...

... "you not comprehending what I wrote is not a surprise to me", as you evidently do not comprehend what YOU even wrote yourself ...

let me put it this way. If you cheat, abuse, exploit, use the same play, use the same move, don't shoot jumpers, dunk all the time, cherry pick, full court press all the time, double team all the time, put point guards at the center pos., and yes even play off ball D as your primary way of playing defense. It is all CHEESE.

The whole point here, that you once again acknowledge as proper, is that off ball d isnt by default cheesse or even more of blasphemy, that it isnt sim.

What makes a move, a play, a way of playing ... sim or not ... is how it is circunscribed onto two major factors:

- Does it accuratelly emulates what we see in the sports and specifically in the NBA ?
- Is it done abusevly ?

So, as there are ways on how to play sim there are also ways on how to play off ball D, as stated before, playing off ball D just to be camping around, to be evading to play on ball D in any case, to be double teaming always, its indeed an unsim way of doing it.

Then again, there are people who "choose" to specifically obviate that on behalf of their own interests (so to make up for their weaknesses and lack of resources) by claiming that they are sim, when in fact, by using their own excuses we could easily label them cheesers and unsim, because all what they do is abuse and exploit their "stick skills" or by sticking to their obtuse imcomplete approach of only on ball d.

Yes, its a videogame so there are variables that we need to consider and account at all times and not just at times when if fits me the most, like you are describing it. It is exactly this type of deviation that has caused the multiple atrophiation that the word sim has been suffering.

Simulation games such as this, are made for a different purpose than those that are not ... I can confidently say that games like the Marvell vs Capcom series, as oppose to NBA2k, are just the type of games were you will thrill without having to negate the opponents strategic superiority, as they mostly relay on sticks and bottom presses above skills. Then again, I used to see my cousin beating the hell out of his opponents with strategy rather than with the sticks or buttoms.

Yet I am happy, as I can clearly see now that the force while not so strong in you havent allowed the dark side to rotten you completly.

[TGG40]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I know i play sim i run plays, let people inbound, don't charge, don't wanna go under the ring and score, but every time when i play a ranked game i get a cheeser. They never let me inbound, every time that stupid charge thing, and they always go under the basket and never do nothing else. They run al the time and etc. and the game looks more nba jam, something i really hate. The nice thing from the game is for me all the plays and movement. Maybe a suck in it but i don't care, but rather play the good way and loose then play the bad way and win. Fortunally at lobby is it better, more players play there sim.

[yungflo]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

this guy is basing his argument on a 04 sim bible that obviously needs revision lol

[ThaGenecyst]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I don't mind the other stuff, but it's really the "I'll never play on ball defense" that bothers me lol nothing burns me more than passing the ball to someone the opponent is defending, and they immediately switch off to let the computer play defense lol

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I don't mind the other stuff, but it's really the "I'll never play on ball defense" that bothers me lol nothing burns me more than passing the ball to someone the opponent is defending, and they immediately switch off to let the computer play defense lol

No doubt, I play with different guys on Defense throughout the whole game although I will mainly play with the teams best defender on the court the majority. It really depends on what the other team or player is doing throughout the game to what I will do as the game go's on, but it is just as annoying to have a guy who will only pass the ball around all game to get the ball to a guy who you are guarding no matter if you switch to another guy. He isn't playing any sort of basketball strategy besides trying to play 1 on 1 with me. That isn't SIM either. With the way the D was online and wih the lag it's an automatic mismatch, if that is fixed then it's not a big issue. That remains to be seen online this year though.

[ThaGenecyst]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

No doubt, I play with different guys on Defense throughout the whole game although I will mainly play with the teams best defender on the court the majority. It really depends on what the other team or player is doing throughout the game to what I will do as the game go's on, but it is just as annoying to have a guy who will only pass the ball around all game to get the ball to a guy who you are guarding no matter if you switch to another guy. He isn't playing any sort of basketball strategy besides trying to play 1 on 1 with me. That isn't SIM either. With the way the D was online and wih the lag it's an automatic mismatch, if that is fixed then it's not a big issue. That remains to be seen online this year though.

Yeah I don't purposely pass the ball around just to get to the person the opponent is guarding, but sometimes i'll pass the ball into the post and boom... defender switched immediately Just makes me feel like I'm playing 2 on 1 b ball.. Ah well though