Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I think where most guys fail to comprehend is ON BALL DEFENSE. This Means you are guarding the guy with the ball. that doesn't mean you can't switch men to help guard the guy with the ball. The Ball is where the action is, why would you shy away from the action...

LOL! Contradicting? You tell me, Here is what your rule states...

Defense
* Controls the defender on the ball
A sim style player almost always is controlling the defender on the ball. Why? Because you’re playing head to head against another person, how you do on defense should depend on how well YOU play defense, not how well the CPU can guard the other player. The ball is where the action is….that’s where you, the gamer, should want to be playing. If you’re playing away from the ball, that just leads to dirty gameplay habits (which I’ll discuss later) anyhow. Besides, anyone who actually D’s up on the ball will tell you that a steal or a charge that YOU actually control is so much more gratifying than anything you can watch the CPU do for you.

The NBA has a 3 second rule for a reason and you will see Portland for example play a man zone with weakside help on the ball/strong side of the floor. Are the Blazers and Nate McMillan unsim?

* Camping
I know a lot of players out there think they play a pretty legit game, and will argue that it’s OK to control a player off the ball. Typically these players will roam the paint trying to get pass deflections, and moving over for the block if you happen to get past their CPU controlled defender. In my opinion, this is not OK….

The only advantage you get from playing off the ball (other than not getting burned if you suck) is being able to cheat away from the guy you should be guarding....

Again your opinion but this happens in EVERY basketball game you have ever seen. Some coaches call it stop line, weak side, or help defense. The oldest and number 1 rule in the book is see ball see man. The point being, the help defender if he see's the ball coming can react and leave his man. Is that cheese? No it's realistic!

I think it's funny that you would say I am unsim by the way I play Defense. Most people would say the cheese comes from the offense minus the constant trapping, inbounds steals, and full court presses which should all be rules and considered unsim if done before 4 minutes left in game and down by a certain number or more imo.

The great part about leagues is the variety and different styles of 30 different players and teams. Just like the real NBA when the Lakers travel to Portland they need to scout and gameplan for that team and there strengths and weaknesses. If you play me 3-4 times a year or we meet in the playoffs in a 7 game series and you know my style you should gameplan for it and counter it. Thats basketball and that is the NBA playoffs in a nutshell! There is a reason Phil Jackson has 10 rings outside of having great players. It's called making adjustments game to game. I am speaking on a SIM league however and not a online ranked game. I just think there is a fine line in saying playing off ball is unsim.

[VDusen04]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I've been posting this thread since 2004, and without pause, guys try to defend there actions in game with ridiculous reasons as to why they do what they do. It never fails. It's america, do what you want, however when a person asks for a sim game adjust your game, or don't play that person.

Just know this you probably are more cheese, than sim, and that's ok.....

I do not understand your last line "Just know this you probably are more cheese, than sim, and that's ok". If being "cheese" was really okay to you, would you have created this thread in the first place?

In the past, I just played video game basketball. After reading threads like these, I never realized there were so many unwritten rules that had to be followed. I thought I liked playing simulation basketball, but not if it involves all this. I understand so much of what you say, but at some point it kind of went over the top.

I hate to be the guy that pulls out this line, but really, if I wanted to play a basketball game that featured no exploitable glitches and truly played as real-to-life basketball as possible, I'd just head over to the gymnasium and, you know, play basketball. Otherwise, I compete against others in 2K expecting them not to take advantage of obvious glitches and mostly just to play a fun game. Clearly, what's fun for me can be different from what's fun to you, but there certainly seems to be a tone here insinuating your list is the guideline we should all follow, lest we hold up a sign prior to each game declaring ourselves "cheesers". Again, you're free to your opinion, but it comes across as a little presumptuous.

[threes_co]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I personally only play "sim" when playing w/ realistic sliders. Playing "sim" should reward, not restrict. Hopefully, that's the case w/ 2K11 out of the box.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I do not understand your last line "Just know this you probably are more cheese, than sim, and that's ok". If being "cheese" was really okay to you, would you have created this thread in the first place?

In the past, I just played video game basketball. After reading threads like these, I never realized there were so many unwritten rules that had to be followed. I thought I liked playing simulation basketball, but not if it involves all this. I understand so much of what you say, but at some point it kind of went over the top.

I hate to be the guy that pulls out this line, but really, if I wanted to play a basketball game that featured no exploitable glitches and truly played as real-to-life basketball as possible, I'd just head over to the gymnasium and, you know, play basketball. Otherwise, I compete against others in 2K expecting them not to take advantage of obvious glitches and mostly just to play a fun game. Clearly, what's fun for me can be different from what's fun to you, but there certainly seems to be a tone here insinuating your list is the guideline we should all follow, lest we hold up a sign prior to each game declaring ourselves "cheesers". Again, you're free to your opinion, but it comes across as a little presumptuous.

LMAO! Couldn't agree more.

The only unfortunate thing is to run a league or should I say a SIM style league you need to have a few rules or people will abuse different aspects of the game whether that be flaws in the AI or just unrealistic full court presses and going for steals on every inbounds pass all game long, etc. You eliminate all that bs and there is nothing better! I know the other feeling though as well when you play that guy throwing full court passes all game long and that sucks!!! LOL!

[ffpp]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I know I'm a bit late with this because it has been discussed a few times but I think you're wrong about your first point, defense.

I try to play as close to real basketball too, and I am mostly playing defense on the ball but I feel the rest of my team needs a lot of babysitting. If I don't look out for the occasional stupidity conducted by my teammates on defense this would lead to some easily exploitable gaps there.
For instance, defenders (in 2k9 at least) don't anticipate passes. They sometimes have the good opportunity to close out on a shooter on the wing but they wait until he has caught the ball, which is too late. Or playing the passing lanes. Or keeping a good position in the post. These are all things I sometimes feel my team doesn't do well enough so I switch to a defender away from the ball and do it myself.
This leads to a rather more realistic looking game than if I just stayed on the ball handler all the time.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

LOL! Contradicting? You tell me, Here is what your rule states...

Defense
* Controls the defender on the ball
A sim style player almost always is controlling the defender on the ball. Why? Because you’re playing head to head against another person, how you do on defense should depend on how well YOU play defense, not how well the CPU can guard the other player. The ball is where the action is….that’s where you, the gamer, should want to be playing. If you’re playing away from the ball, that just leads to dirty gameplay habits (which I’ll discuss later) anyhow. Besides, anyone who actually D’s up on the ball will tell you that a steal or a charge that YOU actually control is so much more gratifying than anything you can watch the CPU do for you.

The NBA has a 3 second rule for a reason and you will see Portland for example play a man zone with weakside help on the ball/strong side of the floor. Are the Blazers and Nate McMillan unsim?

* Camping
I know a lot of players out there think they play a pretty legit game, and will argue that it’s OK to control a player off the ball. Typically these players will roam the paint trying to get pass deflections, and moving over for the block if you happen to get past their CPU controlled defender. In my opinion, this is not OK….

The only advantage you get from playing off the ball (other than not getting burned if you suck) is being able to cheat away from the guy you should be guarding....

Again your opinion but this happens in EVERY basketball game you have ever seen. Some coaches call it stop line, weak side, or help defense. The oldest and number 1 rule in the book is see ball see man. The point being, the help defender if he see's the ball coming can react and leave his man. Is that cheese? No it's realistic!

I think it's funny that you would say I am unsim by the way I play Defense. Most people would say the cheese comes from the offense minus the constant trapping, inbounds steals, and full court presses which should all be rules and considered unsim if done before 4 minutes left in game and down by a certain number or more imo.

The great part about leagues is the variety and different styles of 30 different players and teams. Just like the real NBA when the Lakers travel to Portland they need to scout and gameplan for that team and there strengths and weaknesses. If you play me 3-4 times a year or we meet in the playoffs in a 7 game series and you know my style you should gameplan for it and counter it. Thats basketball and that is the NBA playoffs in a nutshell! There is a reason Phil Jackson has 10 rings outside of having great players. It's called making adjustments game to game. I am speaking on a SIM league however and not a online ranked game. I just think there is a fine line in saying playing off ball is unsim.

Just because you use buzz words like contradict, and type in all caps doesn't make you right, it just means that you use buzz words like contradict, and type in all caps.... Now that, that is out of the way let me tackle your point.

If I'm playing man defense, and your small forward has the ball guess what i'm going to match up, if I want to double team, I'm going to switch off and bring the defender over myself, and double. This also applies to zone Defense, I'm going to use the man that is closest to the ball in what ever zone I'm in. If I need to double down, I'm going to double down and help the post, but I'm going to be guarding the ball....

If you are camping, or running around trying to steal every pass, or guarding a computer controlled player you are cheesing defensively imo... to me that's no different than running in circles with Lebron, until you can dunk

[Jesus]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

The fact that you feel like you and your rules are the alpha and omega of sim is hilarious.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

The fact that you feel like you and your rules are the alpha and omega of sim is hilarious.

I know most people don't like them because they see the cheese in there game, Like I said it's cool. I just don't want you to play anyone who says looking for a sim game, or join a sim league, and you bring that lobby gutter trash with you.

[Greene_Flash03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I agree with pretty much everything, except off-ball D. I use the Blazers offline and online. I always go for my big men LaMarcus or Oden on defense. What is wrong on picking your best defensive guy on defense? Yes, I play off-ball D, but I'm also playing man to man which is sim correct?

I consider myself a sim-player, however there are chances online when you play against a cheeser, sometimes you have to play cheese in order to keep up with them.

[ffpp]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I know most people don't like them because they see the cheese in there game, Like I said it's cool. I just don't want you to play anyone who says looking for a sim game, or join a sim league, and you bring that lobby gutter trash with you.

Yes, but I think what Jesus meant was that your definition of cheesing might be wrong.

[Todem]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

After reading through all the posts I have really seen some great pointers for me and how I can improve my game. And it mostly comes on defense. I am primarly an on-ball defender and I think now that I am way behind the 8 ball reading a lot of what you 2K vets do.

Can't wait to get the game already and start practicing!

[drewbs]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I know most people don't like them because they see the cheese in there game, Like I said it's cool. I just don't want you to play anyone who says looking for a sim game, or join a sim league, and you bring that lobby gutter trash with you.

Your definition of "sim" sucks.

The whole concept of "sim" sucks. It's not realistic basketball, its a way that people try to play basketball to make it look like a real game rather than actually utilizing any real strategy. In fact, there are fundamental flaws in your definitions, which probably stem from the fact that despite being a self proclaimed "sim" player and guru and enforcer of all things "sim", you apparently seem to know very little about actual basketball. Oh and contradict is not a "buzz" word. What are you? 15?

1) Playing off the ball defense.

I don't actually play a ton of off the ball defense because the cpu defenders are not particularly good on the ball. The help defense in this game is absolutely rotten. Playing 2-1 on one on defense are you ****ing kidding me? So... basically what you want is to have a guy guarding you so that when you beat him, you have an easy lane into the paint? Yes, because that is so realistic. Oh and if you are running around in the paint with one guy looking for blocks and steals, then I guarantee you that you are out of defensive position and that one guy on the floor will have an opening. So as far as playing 2-1, you have someone who is playing 1-0.

2) Taking a variety of shots.

If the defense is giving you the lane on straight possessions, why would you pull up and take a jumpshot? If they're leaving a guy wide open on several possessions, then why wouldn't you keep getting him the ball? If you think this is realistic, then I doubt you have played ball on any organized level. Now you say that a "sim" player wouldn't let a guy be open all game while he is killing him; if that's the case, then why does it matter? Stop complaining because you would able to shut him down anyway with your holier than thou "sim" style. Want to talk about realism, well here is some realism. If Dwyane Wade were to get an opening to get into the paint an entire game, he would take about 20-25 shots inside the paint, about 15 free throws. and no jumpshots.

I don't play online for this very reason, 1) too many cheesers who are annoying to play with 2) too many who will get on your *** for things like not taking enough 3 pointers when they're single covering Pau Gasol with some weak *** defender all game and wondering why he's bitch-slapping them around. And then tell you that you are not sim. Those people are equally annoying. If they didn't want me to drop 30 pts with Gasol, they probably could've thought to get the ball out of his hands.

[PH1LLYSFINEST13]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I jus wanna know , who do u play with new moon? What friends? What person abides by every single rule to the T all game long.You must cheese too because its impossible to remember all these rules. Do u play 12 minute quarters? I play sim ball as I am a college ball player , but part of the game of Basketball is playing off ball D and taking what the defense gives you. This whole list of how to play sim is rediculous.

All that being said , Im sure you will reply with , youre mad because you have come to the conclusion you are a cheeser.lol. Play me , you dont like how I play , dont play me again.

Anybody who wants a sim game , get at me.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I jus wanna know , who do u play with new moon? What friends? What person abides by every single rule to the T all game long.You must cheese too because its impossible to remember all these rules. Do u play 12 minute quarters? I play sim ball as I am a college ball player , but part of the game of Basketball is playing off ball D and taking what the defense gives you. This whole list of how to play sim is rediculous.

All that being said , Im sure you will reply with , youre mad because you have come to the conclusion you are a cheeser.lol. Play me , you dont like how I play , dont play me again.

Anybody who wants a sim game , get at me.

Kind of hard to argue my points, when you won't even attempt to debate them. Rather you simply say I'm gonna play the way I want to play, and I think it's sim. Try to point, counter point my argument... bottom line is I'm playing online to play against a human opponent, and there is more to basketball than just controlling the person on offense with the basketball.

You want to think you're sim, but chances are you have some cheese in your game. Which again is fine, do you, but Like I said let me know ahead of time what kind of game it's going to be so I have an option to opt out.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Your definition of "sim" sucks.

The whole concept of "sim" sucks. It's not realistic basketball, its a way that people try to play basketball to make it look like a real game rather than actually utilizing any real strategy. In fact, there are fundamental flaws in your definitions, which probably stem from the fact that despite being a self proclaimed "sim" player and guru and enforcer of all things "sim", you apparently seem to know very little about actual basketball. Oh and contradict is not a "buzz" word. What are you? 15?

1) Playing off the ball defense.

I don't actually play a ton of off the ball defense because the cpu defenders are not particularly good on the ball. The help defense in this game is absolutely rotten. Playing 2-1 on one on defense are you ****ing kidding me? So... basically what you want is to have a guy guarding you so that when you beat him, you have an easy lane into the paint? Yes, because that is so realistic. Oh and if you are running around in the paint with one guy looking for blocks and steals, then I guarantee you that you are out of defensive position and that one guy on the floor will have an opening. So as far as playing 2-1, you have someone who is playing 1-0.

2) Taking a variety of shots.

If the defense is giving you the lane on straight possessions, why would you pull up and take a jumpshot? If they're leaving a guy wide open on several possessions, then why wouldn't you keep getting him the ball? If you think this is realistic, then I doubt you have played ball on any organized level. Now you say that a "sim" player wouldn't let a guy be open all game while he is killing him; if that's the case, then why does it matter? Stop complaining because you would able to shut him down anyway with your holier than thou "sim" style. Want to talk about realism, well here is some realism. If Dwyane Wade were to get an opening to get into the paint an entire game, he would take about 20-25 shots inside the paint, about 15 free throws. and no jumpshots.

I don't play online for this very reason, 1) too many cheesers who are annoying to play with 2) too many who will get on your *** for things like not taking enough 3 pointers when they're single covering Pau Gasol with some weak *** defender all game and wondering why he's bitch-slapping them around. And then tell you that you are not sim. Those people are equally annoying. If they didn't want me to drop 30 pts with Gasol, they probably could've thought to get the ball out of his hands.

to answer your first post, I have already explained to you why that would not happen... Either you can't comprehend what ON Ball Defense means, or you can't comprehend me. No one is saying just let guys go by you, all the way to the bucket, switch men, but you are still the person bringing the help, you are still the one guarding the ball..... understand?

your other points are pretty obvious, it's up to the defender to stop your go to players, and to defend the post, the three point shooters, send doubles to take the ball out of certain players hands.... those things are a given, and have nothing to do with on ball defending....