Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

[Jesus]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

well if you want to play in the official OS VETS league you better be proficient in on ball D. none of that hot potatoe /help D excuse to sit in the paint kiddies

lmao no one G.A.F about the official OS VETS league you make a point to bring up every time this is debated.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

lmao no one G.A.F about the official OS VETS league you make a point to bring up every time this is debated.

That is the third time I have seen this very same post by him ... I dont know why, but it reminds me of the that kid who lived next door that he just kept praising himself because he got an A on an exam he just copied entirelly from a fellow student ... lol.

Then again, I agree with most if not all of his sim suggestions for improving the game ... I just cant understand why are these perspectives (on ball/of ball D) so far apart.

[Todem]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

There is really no way to play complete sim in these games. What ever you do, someone else is going to think you do at least something things cheap. Worst thing about leagues is, the awful trades that go down. I been in leagues where the owner has completely fleeced people in trades and thought they were the ****. Ran the same play over and over again. Banned people for disagreeing with them, if i do buy 2k11 I'm sticking to offline from now on, **** leagues.

People will always think your cheesing somehow, so the best thing to do is just to play the way you want. w.e gives you the most entertainment, this is a game after all.

I think I tend to agree with this statement. I have never been able to play this game online with out some cheese. It is almost impossible to do. Video Basketball is the toughest game to replicate as SIM. It just is. Too easy to exploit, therefore you have to walk on eggshells in basketball sim leagues....too many rules. I want to have fun.

Football is much easier to have a solid sim league.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I think I tend to agree with this statement. I have never been able to play this game online with out some cheese. It is almost impossible to do. Video Basketball is the toughest game to replicate as SIM. It just is. Too easy to exploit, therefore you have to walk on eggshells in basketball sim leagues....too many rules. I want to have fun.

Football is much easier to have a solid sim league.

So true and great point...

[Todem]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

A perfect example of rules being different and finding the ones that work for you is the OS Vets Madden league.

I was looking to join it so I read the rules. Not gonna happen. I read a rule that once the ball was in the air I could not switch to the CB or FS to try and get the pick!

I was like WTF is that? I have played Madden that way my entire life going back to 1992. That is part of the "skill" in playing defense. being able to switch off your DT or LB to the secondary to take control of the defender and make a play on the ball.

Unacceptable for me. And believe me I am so sim when it comes to Madden it is not even funny.

[Forever_Young83]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

A perfect example of rules being different and finding the ones that work for you is the OS Vets Madden league.

I was looking to join it so I read the rules. Not gonna happen. I read a rule that once the ball was in the air I could not switch to the CB or FS to try and get the pick!

I was like WTF is that? I have played Madden that way my entire life going back to 1992. That is part of the "skill" in playing defense. being able to switch off your DT or LB to the secondary to take control of the defender and make a play on the ball.

Unacceptable for me. And believe me I am so sim when it comes to Madden it is not even funny.

Yeah that rule doesn't make much sense.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Every person has a different concept of what a simulation is. This is why I will never again play in online leagues on OS. Too frustrating too play against people who claim they are "sim" but will cheese like a pizza maker when the appropriate time arises. It is less frustrating to play against a "random" than someone you expect will play a fair, honest game.

[RaptorMania]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I think I tend to agree with this statement. I have never been able to play this game online with out some cheese. It is almost impossible to do. Video Basketball is the toughest game to replicate as SIM. It just is. Too easy to exploit, therefore you have to walk on eggshells in basketball sim leagues....too many rules. I want to have fun.

Football is much easier to have a solid sim league.

Yap, I played the **** out of 2k9 just playing random people online and loved that game. 2K10 decided to join a "sim" league and it took all the fun out of the game for me, haven't played in about 5 month.

[TUSS11]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Everyone has a different perspective on what simulation is. It is ridiculous to claim that your perspective is superior to everyone else's.

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

You didn't argue any of my points. All you say is the same thing and you don't defend or explain any good reasoning behind your way of so called SIM play. So let me get this straight, your arguement and definition of on ball defense means I can play with let's say Greg Oden on the weakside help as long as I am playing the ball and watching the ball? Or are you saying I have to go after the ball immediately when I switch to a guy off ball?

If I see you driving I will attack the dribbler or maybe trap on the baseline drive. If your running the pick n roll I will guard against the roller. and then quickly recover back to my man when my teammate recovers to his. I might even play the high pick with the guy guarding the picker so I can hedge the screen myself to once again wait to recover to my man when my teammate recovers. That is basketball and a legit strategy that is SIM! Its a chess match! You obviously have problems to adjusting and would rather enjoy a game like live or elite where it's 1 on 1 and you can take off from the 3 point line and dunk with a guy like Earl Boykins. I play the ball too don't get me wrong but it is not needed to play SIM or to have as a rule in a SIM league IMO! That is a bit to much and not needed again IMO!

I will only answer the first part of your argument as the second paragraph is just non-sensical ramblings that has nothing to do what were talking about. Your question about Oden would be; just for this arguments sake let's say a pick and roll was being utilized, and Oden was a defender. Yes you could take Oden, and cut off the lane which would give the picked defender time to recover. However the moment that the defender is back in defensive position you would have to switch back to the On Ball defender. Now That's not discounting Double Teaming, or any other defensive assignments you may come up with

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

This guy posted this in another thread and I thought this was a good fit for it here. Especially in 2k10 we all know anyone could get to the hoop at will especially online and especially if my opponent was guarding the ball!

After encountering so many chessers in rank game, my defense has became much better, even if they score every single point in paint, i am fine. (I was at rank 6x)

but recently i played 3 guys run the same offense 24/7 and I really dont know how to stop them. here is their offense:

1. handle the ball with a high speed, good dribble move, good lay up/dunk PG/SG. In my case, they use Kobe, Derrick Rose, Brandon Roy

2. have the ball at the top of the 3pt line, then they called kind of a "isolation play" but I their guys spread out much more "wider" then the "quick Isolation"

3. start dribbling with ISO moves and try to get pass my defender at the top of the 3pt line and get to the basket.

here comes the problems:
If I played On-ball D, it is very hard to prevent him get pass my defender as they are using Kobe, Roy, Rose with a lot of space of them to keep do those ISO moves. (just like realy life, how many times can u stop Kobe get pass u 1on1??)

Once he get pass me, normally it is too late for me to switch to C/PF to contest the layup/dunk as my C/PF got pull out very far away from the paint by their "Isolation Play". Even if I manage to quick switch and come over, he can just throw it down hard, of pump fake, fake me in the air, easy 2pt.

And the worst thing is, sometime when he get pass my defender at the 3pt line, my CPU will bring Help-D and left the guy on the perimeter wide open. then ofcourse he kicks it out for easy 3pt...

If I play Off-ball D, stay with my Center, he can easily dribble past my CPU defender, and when I try to use my Center to contest shot, he pass it to his C.... things like that.

BTW, I run Man To Man Defense all time. (I dont really want to camp in 2-3zone), I have tried to adjust my Defensive pressure and help D slider, but it doesnt seems to stop them from getting pass my defender.

They just keep doing the same offense everytime...

This would never happen in a all sim game, but let's say it's the end of the game, and a clear out Iso Play was called... you have defensive options such as double team, or zone, or you can even do like you said and adjust your defensive pressureand play a lag defense which would keep your defenders closer to the paint....


I think you are mixing up a true sim player with Lobby Gutter trash..... and you are asking about strategies to stop Cheesers, when I'm clearly talking about the sweet science of Basketball

[newmoon]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

The old cheeser debate.

I think the definition of cheesing is exploiting things in the game that are indefensable where the only defense against these moves is human error on the cheesers part, or are way too effective to be considered fair when playing the game.

I think the definiton of sim play is trying to win the game without trying to exploit unguardable moves, or maybe even use these moves at all. If you play sim for 46 minutes then cheese the last two to get the win then you are a cheeser.

As far as off the ball d, i have played offline the entire series and recently when playing the computer the user controlled defense AI is short bus off the ball. I learned to play off the ball defense because the computer would always go back door, kill me on pick and roll, always be in the right spot etc. I realized i'd rather give up an offensive rebound dunk or a perimeter jumper rather than a lay-up or dunk inside.

As time went on i've become a little better at this and now i play a pretty decent defensive game with my entire team. I don't consider my off the ball work to be cheesing because the game won't allow my defense to play up to my standards and i use real life defensive strategies to try and play good yet realistic defense. However depending on the situation i will play on the ball the majority of time, and only switch to off the ball to defend certain situations;

1.) Guarding the pick and roll. I've seen big smooth just go under the screen and dare the other player to shoot but if that doesn't work then i do what the boston celtics did under tom tibodeaux. I chase the ball handler off the three point line with my big that's guarding the screener, and then i use my other big to trail the screener into the paint until my big can recover. If that fails i'll use the weakside wing to cover either the rolling big, or the big that was left open by my rotation. What this does is create an open mid range jumper sometimes for the big that's not setting the screen, and open jumper for the weakside wing player, or a mismatch for the wing on the weak side because now he's being guarded by a big.

2.) To deny a player that has a hot hand. Trying to make the other team score using a player other than the superstar thats killing me right now.

3.) Double teaming the other teams best player or big, then playing the passing lanes; not necessarily to get a steal, but definitely to recover to the kick out man so i can prevent a wide open shot while the man that is doubling can can get back to another offensive player. This has been harder to do recently because the computer puts restrictions in the game where you're players freeze while the ball is being passed so if you're out of position you stay out of position until the offensive player has the ball. This is part of real life basketball and when you see it work in the game it's beautiful, although it can lead to mismatches and or missed assignments that lead to offensive rebounds.

Now i understand how off the ball defense can be cheese, especally the guys that do their best not to guard you and will switch defenders as many times per possesion to make sure they are hidden. I can also understand how in previous games taking a big and camping in the paint was cheese but with all the player movement restrictions it's to hard to help and recover with these players. You can hit floaters over them (or watch the guy they were guarding dunk home the offensive rebound) or you can just dish the ball around them for an easy bucket. That being said i usuallly play straight up unless player gets a hot hand, or has a mismatch in the post.

I know how other stuff can be cheesing, and the OP is right most of that garbage is annoying, because even if you're able to beat this person then it doesn't make them ammend their ways, it makes them try to make the game worse, or try and get you to let them quit. I think there is such a thing as sim and cheese, but it's hard to label all people that play off the ball as cheesers.

This is a good post, and all your defensive adjustments are sound until you get in the habit of not being in the zone of the ball.... If you have to double then you double, if you have to cut off a lane, then you cut off the lane, but all while still guarding the ball.... I think some people take my On ball defending as I play Man all game, and switch to the appropriate defender who is guarding the ball carrier. Meaning as long as the SF has the Rock, I am defending with The SF on Defense until he passes the ball. This is clearly not what I'm talking about

[VDusen04]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

These "sim" threads are always funny... it always comes down to a bunch of guys thinking the way they play is superior and "sim" and everyone elses play style is "cheese".

You want true SIM go get 9 of your friends and go play some bball.

For real. Reading this stuff makes me super self conscious about how I play. I don't sprint around with LeBron. I don't use the pick and roll a ton. But man, it almost seems like work to play an acceptable game online, and that's not what I'm here for. I'm not looking to go out of my way to "act out" a real NBA game. I'm just looking to play NBA2K10.

I'm just not sure I've ever heard someone present the "play exactly my way elsewise you better tell me beforehand you don't play exactly my way because I won't want to play you then" argument before.

[Chessboxer1]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

This is a good post, and all your defensive adjustments are sound until you get in the habit of not being in the zone of the ball.... If you have to double then you double, if you have to cut off a lane, then you cut off the lane, but all while still guarding the ball.... I think some people take my On ball defending as I play Man all game, and switch to the appropriate defender who is guarding the ball carrier. Meaning as long as the SF has the Rock, I am defending with The SF on Defense until he passes the ball. This is clearly not what I'm talking about

I kinda figured that's what you meant, but you stuck to your guns pretty hard earlier thought you were one of those guys that's strictly guard the guy with the circle around him.

As far as off ball defense, playing zone sort of makes it necessary at least when you're playing the cpu. I don't like to zone up another human unless i notice they can't shoot but if you play a 2-3 your middle defender will vacate the lane for long periods of time. Basically, to make the zone work the way a zone is supposed to you have to control the weak side defenders. Personally i don't think this is such an issue because the zone is so flawed against human players that it's easy to beat with just a few passes.

Still, like i said i see you're point. And now that i understand what you mean i think we're pretty much on the same page. Still not sure how this thread got to be this long but i guess people are sensitive about being called cheesers.

[kolanji]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

i posted this already but for emphasis

@ newmoon
am sorry ma man but i cant agree with u here one bit....what u consider sim is based on what u expect ppl to do agaisnt u..and that is just not how games,sports nor life is about.u cant go on complaining about things u have no control over..the off the ball defense is in the game if u chose to use it then that is ur style.if it is in the game dont complain about it because it is out of ur control.so in other words u want ppl to limit their game to a portion because the rest is somewhat to u irrelivant to be "SIM"?the truth that u fail to realise is that according to ur definition of a cheeser or a non sim player is every team in the nba.every coach in the nba is a cheeser in that case; from the hack a shaq
procedure to the bad boy of the detroit piston that play dirty and hit JOrdan hard and fast everytime he touched the ball to the doug collins playbook of get jordan the ball and everybody get the hell out of the way bulls team that never won a champioship by the way till Phil jackson and the triangle offense.which proves that using 1 player or 2 all the time no matter how great they are cant win if u are so called SIM to respond to the overplaying of the players...cant u figure where the ball is gonna go next after a few attemps?and am sure 2k has a good balancing tool with fatigued bar.....
basketball is not about giving,basketball is about taking...u take away the options from offensive players, u take away their scoring threat,taking away their confort zone,take away the ball,take away their spirit their hope their confedence their chance of winning....everything alse has to be earn on the court like a victory and respect.
cheating by using glitches and bugs are not cheesers they r cheaters!!!!nobody is gonna give u any thing out there on the court so dont ask ppl to give in to ur so called sim style
if it is in the game and not cheating then by definition it is still sim because it is in d game and using resources in the game nba sim game that the develpers put in it is by that games deinition sim...ur problem is not with the players using the moves that they can legally do in the game(if it is not a glitch or bug) but the developers that made the nba sim itself....
a game can only be define by the content of it and not by the use of the content because nobody can determine when where and how human input to the game.
i read ur opinions and i respect em cause there yours but likewise i have mine and i am forcing nobody to live by em...but all am saying is that humans are selfish by nature and they will do what they wanna do regardless... play ur style of game and let ppl play theirs.so relax and stop worrying about things u have no control over and just play the game cause is is just a game and have some fun this year playing nba 2k11

am sorry if i said most things ppl already said but i got in a little late on this thread and never read all the post