Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Not following the whole thread but I have a small question/comment

1. Do the majority of folks think off ball D is Cheese?...and more importantly what is the climate here at OS for off ball D.

The only guy defending on ball D in this whole thread is the guy who started it. Everyone else plays the way you play for the most part. The funny thing is though I am surprised by that because every league that calls themselves SIM states as a rule that you MUST play on ball D at ALL times. That to me and alot of us in here does not classify to be SIM.

I personally play the game for fun and relaxation but at the same time I want as close to a simulation experience as I can get so for me that means running plays, not sprinting all over the court and trying to make the game look as close to an NBA game as possible.

Agreed!

On the other hand I personally don't have a problem with off ball D as long as my opponent is not continually clicking off to allow the CPU to play D 100% of the time...See if I wanted to play against the CPU I wouldn't wast my time online. So I really feel like its ok to play Off ball but when the player I am guarding gets the rock I don't runaway...I stay on that player and play D manually...I may even switch on to play manual D but the one thing I won't do is play what I like to refer to as "RUNAWAY D".

Agree 100% again and play same way. I usually play with the best defender whether that be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.

Going a step further I'm usually so deep into executing my own style of play that I don't even know what my opponent is doing in terms of are they playing D manually or not...Some guys think they are the sim police and that's no way to play any game...Its best just to worry about your own style and have fun with the game and if possible play people you trust that will give you the true sim experience you are looking for.

I agree again. Every league is different and everybodys definition of SIM is different. Bottom line is find and join a league that best fits to your own style. The funny thing is I don't see a whole lot of so called SIM leagues with rules like the majority of people in this thread play like. Thats what makes us SIM and the others cheesy as he says imo. I will say I agree with alot of the other rules most those leagues post besides this one with on ball D.

[leo2k2ndc]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I play sim in every aspect besides running plays... In basketball games they just don't work, and are so frustrating...

My game consists mostly of ball movement, kick outs, and fast breaking

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...se-cheese.html

Poll Results as of 9/11/10
<TABLE class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">Yes </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes width="12%" noWrap align=middle>14</TD><TD class=alt2 width="13%" noWrap align=right>13.59%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">No </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes width="12%" noWrap align=middle>51</TD><TD class=alt2 width="13%" noWrap align=right>49.51%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">It depends how you use it. </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap> </TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes width="12%" noWrap align=middle>38</TD><TD class=alt2 width="13%" noWrap align=right>36.89%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Thanks for clearing this up! This sums it all up right here!

[Teebone21]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Thanks for clearing this up! This sums it all up right here!

well if you want to play in the official OS VETS league you better be proficient in on ball D. none of that hot potatoe /help D excuse to sit in the paint kiddies

[MelMan1486]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

These "sim" threads are always funny... it always comes down to a bunch of guys thinking the way they play is superior and "sim" and everyone elses play style is "cheese".

You want true SIM go get 9 of your friends and go play some bball.

[Krodis]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

well if you want to play in the official OS VETS league you better be proficient in on ball D. none of that hot potatoe /help D excuse to sit in the paint kiddies

Oh WHO CARES?

[Chessboxer1]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

The old cheeser debate.

I think the definition of cheesing is exploiting things in the game that are indefensable where the only defense against these moves is human error on the cheesers part, or are way too effective to be considered fair when playing the game.

I think the definiton of sim play is trying to win the game without trying to exploit unguardable moves, or maybe even use these moves at all. If you play sim for 46 minutes then cheese the last two to get the win then you are a cheeser.

As far as off the ball d, i have played offline the entire series and recently when playing the computer the user controlled defense AI is short bus off the ball. I learned to play off the ball defense because the computer would always go back door, kill me on pick and roll, always be in the right spot etc. I realized i'd rather give up an offensive rebound dunk or a perimeter jumper rather than a lay-up or dunk inside.

As time went on i've become a little better at this and now i play a pretty decent defensive game with my entire team. I don't consider my off the ball work to be cheesing because the game won't allow my defense to play up to my standards and i use real life defensive strategies to try and play good yet realistic defense. However depending on the situation i will play on the ball the majority of time, and only switch to off the ball to defend certain situations;

1.) Guarding the pick and roll. I've seen big smooth just go under the screen and dare the other player to shoot but if that doesn't work then i do what the boston celtics did under tom tibodeaux. I chase the ball handler off the three point line with my big that's guarding the screener, and then i use my other big to trail the screener into the paint until my big can recover. If that fails i'll use the weakside wing to cover either the rolling big, or the big that was left open by my rotation. What this does is create an open mid range jumper sometimes for the big that's not setting the screen, and open jumper for the weakside wing player, or a mismatch for the wing on the weak side because now he's being guarded by a big.

2.) To deny a player that has a hot hand. Trying to make the other team score using a player other than the superstar thats killing me right now.

3.) Double teaming the other teams best player or big, then playing the passing lanes; not necessarily to get a steal, but definitely to recover to the kick out man so i can prevent a wide open shot while the man that is doubling can can get back to another offensive player. This has been harder to do recently because the computer puts restrictions in the game where you're players freeze while the ball is being passed so if you're out of position you stay out of position until the offensive player has the ball. This is part of real life basketball and when you see it work in the game it's beautiful, although it can lead to mismatches and or missed assignments that lead to offensive rebounds.

Now i understand how off the ball defense can be cheese, especally the guys that do their best not to guard you and will switch defenders as many times per possesion to make sure they are hidden. I can also understand how in previous games taking a big and camping in the paint was cheese but with all the player movement restrictions it's to hard to help and recover with these players. You can hit floaters over them (or watch the guy they were guarding dunk home the offensive rebound) or you can just dish the ball around them for an easy bucket. That being said i usuallly play straight up unless player gets a hot hand, or has a mismatch in the post.

I know how other stuff can be cheesing, and the OP is right most of that garbage is annoying, because even if you're able to beat this person then it doesn't make them ammend their ways, it makes them try to make the game worse, or try and get you to let them quit. I think there is such a thing as sim and cheese, but it's hard to label all people that play off the ball as cheesers.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

well if you want to play in the official OS VETS league you better be proficient in on ball D. none of that hot potatoe /help D excuse to sit in the paint kiddies

It's about switching and strategizing while giving your opponent different looks. Whether thats playing on ball, weak side help D, or trapping from different locations. Its about who your playing against too. I will give you the jumper and sag off Rondo. If aguy is abusing Lebron and is burning on ball then I'll be ready with help and adjust. Again I will use 2 examples of this...

#1 - Bad Boy Pistons with Jordan rules and every player knew where he was at ALL times. They made the Bulls as a team beat them not Jordan. As soon as Jordan figured this out and started setting up his teammates and having faith in them they got past the Pistons and started winning titles.

#2 - Portland Trailblazers man/zone defense where you see there weakside defender go on strong side of paint ready for help yet still ready to recover.

All those are legit strategies... Why is it a rule to play just on ball? Makes no sense! Again it is player preference imo and for the record I split it up between on ball and off 50/50 but I just disagree with 100% required on ball only leagues or styles stating that is SIM and off ball defenders are cheese.

[fluent2332]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I disagree about playing on -ball defense being the only way to play sim. There's 5 positions on the floor. You can guard any position or player you want as long as you are playing realistically. If you are doubling every pass and going for steals like that, of course it's not realistic. But if you are playing off-ball as the player would in real life, you're still playing sim. There's no big deal about playing on-ball D anyway, and most of the times you have to frantically switch players to do it, it's a waste. Just play your position and play it realistically and it's fine.

[youvalss]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

I play sim in every aspect besides running plays... In basketball games they just don't work, and are so frustrating...

My game consists mostly of ball movement, kick outs, and fast breaking

Same here. But looks like this year I'm going back to running plays. I'm really excited about the new play calling system!

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

well if you want to play in the official OS VETS league you better be proficient in on ball D. none of that hot potatoe /help D excuse to sit in the paint kiddies

If that is strictly the case (nope help D whatsoever), said by a "pro" by the way ... then I dont want to be a part of the VETS:
Virtual Excellence (only) Throughout Sticks (in that case) ... on the other hand, if it is about not camping in the paint (I do not), then I can deal with what they may offer.


It would be awsome if two of the above posters (the OP and an opposite) could record an entire game and upload it here, not to prove who won the game or who is/was better, but mostly to see how far the sim perspective is, if any.

I would offer my self thus more often than not, my connection wont allow it (have a closed nat and a low, low internet speed).

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Same here. But looks like this year I'm going back to running plays. I'm really excited about the new play calling system!

I agree too.

[RaptorMania]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

There is really no way to play complete sim in these games. What ever you do, someone else is going to think you do at least something things cheap. Worst thing about leagues is, the awful trades that go down. I been in leagues where the owner has completely fleeced people in trades and thought they were the ****. Ran the same play over and over again. Banned people for disagreeing with them, if i do buy 2k11 I'm sticking to offline from now on, **** leagues.

People will always think your cheesing somehow, so the best thing to do is just to play the way you want. w.e gives you the most entertainment, this is a game after all.

[RaptorMania]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ..... (Sim style for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

If that is strictly the case (nope help D whatsoever), said by a "pro" by the way ... then I dont want to be a part of the VETS:
Virtual Excellence (only) Throughout Sticks (in that case) ... on the other hand, if it is about not camping in the paint (I do not), then I can deal with what they may offer.


It would be awsome if two of the above posters (the OP and an opposite) could record an entire game and upload it here, not to prove who won the game or who is/was better, but mostly to see how far the sim perspective is, if any.

I would offer my self thus more often than not, my connection wont allow it (have a closed nat and a low, low internet speed).

Great idea dude, lets see how "sim" these people really are. Not jsut the op, but anyone that want's to show everyone what "sim" is please show us, even if it's a 5 minute long vid.

[J-H!zZl3]

Re: Sim style Gamplay ....the Bible. (for the guys who don't know what cheese is)

Same here. But looks like this year I'm going back to running plays. I'm really excited about the new play calling system!

Judging by these videos, I will be running plays this time around as well.