CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

[spankdatazz22]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Well, guess we'll see how things roll next year. This is the situation I envision next year: EA aggressively upgrades it's games and MATCHES the feature list of it's sports counterparts (in other words, Madden has a VIP feature, online leagues w/full stat tracking, etc. Basketball gets online leagues w/full stat tracking, a huge graphical upgrade, better simulation options, more game modes, better presentation, etc.). VC concentrates on incremental upgrades but fixing the perceived problems in this year's games. I wonder how the reviews will read? I guarantee that if EA makes huge strides in the areas where it's noticeably behind ESPN (online leagues, for example), it'll get the most word and notice. Will reviewers then heap praise on the games where now those same feature are barely referenced in most reviews?

Quietcool's comments about Gamespot were... catty is a nice word, I guess. I forget what you guys gave Madden. But it's obvious the game's defense is hyped - PERIOD. This is how simple it is to play effective defense in Madden this year: spread the DL rush, play BnR, and put 8 in the box... in Dime or Quarters. Wash, rinse, repeat. Are you faulting them for that? I apologize if I'm wrong. Guess that's a bad example because it's not a bug. But all I can remember is how much NFL2k5 is bashed for it's bugs.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for VC and it's games' issues. But I understand the situation. In 2003, everyone faulted VC for releasing NFL2k4 a month after Madden. It was probably a better game than it would've been if released in August, but it STILL had bug issues. And at $50, it got trounced in sales. I don't like that we are at a time when release dates are such an important factor in marketshare. This is a process that was started w/Madden years ago, and has gotten progressively worse. I wouldn't expect a smaller developer to be able to compete w/a competitor that's many times it's size w/much larger resources and still be competitive. Quietcool, for someone that does reviews of games you should know more than anyone else - if all the sports games were $50 this year, or if the VC games had released much later than the EA games, most people wouldn't have given a second look. Other than the hardcore minority, which will STILL find something wrong with the game(s) - we all acknowledge no game is going to be perfect. I've read so many threads where some act as if paying $20 for a VC game takes slow, careful, thoughtful consideration. And getting the higher priced game is a no-brainer.

I only say the TO bug isn't as huge an issue some make it out to be because most of my games don't come down to the last minute. When I watch a game on TV, most don't come down to the last minute. If I'm in a situation where the computer needs to call a TO, then if I play smart it shouldn't win anyway. I don't like that in some games you have a high number of turnovers. Or any of the other issues people have noted about 2k5. But I guess I'm not that deep into trying to create a franchise that mirrors or parallels what I read in the sports section of the paper. Again, I'm not trying to excuse them for everything wrong w/the game. I just don't think things have to be totally blown out of proportion.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Well, guess we'll see how things roll next year. This is the situation I envision next year: EA aggressively upgrades it's games and MATCHES the feature list of it's sports counterparts (in other words, Madden has a VIP feature, online leagues w/full stat tracking, etc. Basketball gets online leagues w/full stat tracking, a huge graphical upgrade, better simulation options, more game modes, better presentation, etc.). VC concentrates on incremental upgrades but fixing the perceived problems in this year's games. I wonder how the reviews will read? I guarantee that if EA makes huge strides in the areas where it's noticeably behind ESPN (online leagues, for example), it'll get the most word and notice. Will reviewers then heap praise on the games where now those same feature are barely referenced in most reviews?

Quietcool's comments about Gamespot were... catty is a nice word, I guess. I forget what you guys gave Madden. But it's obvious the game's defense is hyped - PERIOD. This is how simple it is to play effective defense in Madden this year: spread the DL rush, play BnR, and put 8 in the box... in Dime or Quarters. Wash, rinse, repeat. Are you faulting them for that? I apologize if I'm wrong. Guess that's a bad example because it's not a bug. But all I can remember is how much NFL2k5 is bashed for it's bugs.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for VC and it's games' issues. But I understand the situation. In 2003, everyone faulted VC for releasing NFL2k4 a month after Madden. It was probably a better game than it would've been if released in August, but it STILL had bug issues. And at $50, it got trounced in sales. I don't like that we are at a time when release dates are such an important factor in marketshare. This is a process that was started w/Madden years ago, and has gotten progressively worse. I wouldn't expect a smaller developer to be able to compete w/a competitor that's many times it's size w/much larger resources and still be competitive. Quietcool, for someone that does reviews of games you should know more than anyone else - if all the sports games were $50 this year, or if the VC games had released much later than the EA games, most people wouldn't have given a second look. Other than the hardcore minority, which will STILL find something wrong with the game(s) - we all acknowledge no game is going to be perfect. I've read so many threads where some act as if paying $20 for a VC game takes slow, careful, thoughtful consideration. And getting the higher priced game is a no-brainer.

I only say the TO bug isn't as huge an issue some make it out to be because most of my games don't come down to the last minute. When I watch a game on TV, most don't come down to the last minute. If I'm in a situation where the computer needs to call a TO, then if I play smart it shouldn't win anyway. I don't like that in some games you have a high number of turnovers. Or any of the other issues people have noted about 2k5. But I guess I'm not that deep into trying to create a franchise that mirrors or parallels what I read in the sports section of the paper. Again, I'm not trying to excuse them for everything wrong w/the game. I just don't think things have to be totally blown out of proportion.

[quietcool72]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Well, guess we'll see how things roll next year. This is the situation I envision next year: EA aggressively upgrades it's games and MATCHES the feature list of it's sports counterparts (in other words, Madden has a VIP feature, online leagues w/full stat tracking, etc. Basketball gets online leagues w/full stat tracking, a huge graphical upgrade, better simulation options, more game modes, better presentation, etc.). VC concentrates on incremental upgrades but fixing the perceived problems in this year's games. I wonder how the reviews will read? I guarantee that if EA makes huge strides in the areas where it's noticeably behind ESPN (online leagues, for example), it'll get the most word and notice. Will reviewers then heap praise on the games where now those same feature are barely referenced in most reviews?

Quietcool's comments about Gamespot were... catty is a nice word, I guess. I forget what you guys gave Madden. But it's obvious the game's defense is hyped - PERIOD. This is how simple it is to play effective defense in Madden this year: spread the DL rush, play BnR, and put 8 in the box... in Dime or Quarters. Wash, rinse, repeat. Are you faulting them for that? I apologize if I'm wrong. Guess that's a bad example because it's not a bug. But all I can remember is how much NFL2k5 is bashed for it's bugs.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for VC and it's games' issues. But I understand the situation. In 2003, everyone faulted VC for releasing NFL2k4 a month after Madden. It was probably a better game than it would've been if released in August, but it STILL had bug issues. And at $50, it got trounced in sales. I don't like that we are at a time when release dates are such an important factor in marketshare. This is a process that was started w/Madden years ago, and has gotten progressively worse. I wouldn't expect a smaller developer to be able to compete w/a competitor that's many times it's size w/much larger resources and still be competitive. Quietcool, for someone that does reviews of games you should know more than anyone else - if all the sports games were $50 this year, or if the VC games had released much later than the EA games, most people wouldn't have given a second look. Other than the hardcore minority, which will STILL find something wrong with the game(s) - we all acknowledge no game is going to be perfect. I've read so many threads where some act as if paying $20 for a VC game takes slow, careful, thoughtful consideration. And getting the higher priced game is a no-brainer.

I only say the TO bug isn't as huge an issue some make it out to be because most of my games don't come down to the last minute. When I watch a game on TV, most don't come down to the last minute. If I'm in a situation where the computer needs to call a TO, then if I play smart it shouldn't win anyway. I don't like that in some games you have a high number of turnovers. Or any of the other issues people have noted about 2k5. But I guess I'm not that deep into trying to create a franchise that mirrors or parallels what I read in the sports section of the paper. Again, I'm not trying to excuse them for everything wrong w/the game. I just don't think things have to be totally blown out of proportion.

I think the reason so may people are up in arms over VC's games it their arse-backwards development philosophy of "glitz first, playtesting later... or not at all."

VC makes some of the most attractive games available of any genre. But the guffaws and bonehead oversights are so incredibly stupid that it is beyond comprehension for sim-ballers like myself and others on these boards.

Its like VC manufactures this beatiful Ferrari..
..and forgets the door-locks, radio, gas cap, air conditioner and power-steering.

Think about it- VC comes so close to making a worldbeater, but then the most obvious playtesting oversights go un-detected.

Or worse... they are detected, and nothing is done.

It wouldn't take that much to fix these games. Maybe a week of playtesting and a week of fixes- before the CD goes to master. But year after year, they rush a product out the door.

And trust me, I slam EA when its deserved too. You obviously didn't read my review of NCAA Football 2005. (I'm still getting hate mail from EA fanboys for that one.) As for the juiced defense in Madden, I see your point. But I'd rather be able to lower that defensive awareness slider and be able to fix that problem (like you can In Madden 2005) as opposed to being able to run "Gimme Post Routes" to a 3rd wideout lined up just off of the formation all day long, on any slider difficulty in NFL 2K5. I mean, one is correctable, one isn't.

If sliders can fix a problem- that's great. But how many of VC's game problems are fixable with slider.

VC needs to hire some hard-core gamers to assist with the development of their games. They come SO CLOSE to making a worldbeater in every attempt, but you know what happens at that point.

They miss the free throws that would have tied the game with EA.

(Hockey notwithstanding! EA has become VC's b*tch when it comes to hockey)

[quietcool72]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Well, guess we'll see how things roll next year. This is the situation I envision next year: EA aggressively upgrades it's games and MATCHES the feature list of it's sports counterparts (in other words, Madden has a VIP feature, online leagues w/full stat tracking, etc. Basketball gets online leagues w/full stat tracking, a huge graphical upgrade, better simulation options, more game modes, better presentation, etc.). VC concentrates on incremental upgrades but fixing the perceived problems in this year's games. I wonder how the reviews will read? I guarantee that if EA makes huge strides in the areas where it's noticeably behind ESPN (online leagues, for example), it'll get the most word and notice. Will reviewers then heap praise on the games where now those same feature are barely referenced in most reviews?

Quietcool's comments about Gamespot were... catty is a nice word, I guess. I forget what you guys gave Madden. But it's obvious the game's defense is hyped - PERIOD. This is how simple it is to play effective defense in Madden this year: spread the DL rush, play BnR, and put 8 in the box... in Dime or Quarters. Wash, rinse, repeat. Are you faulting them for that? I apologize if I'm wrong. Guess that's a bad example because it's not a bug. But all I can remember is how much NFL2k5 is bashed for it's bugs.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for VC and it's games' issues. But I understand the situation. In 2003, everyone faulted VC for releasing NFL2k4 a month after Madden. It was probably a better game than it would've been if released in August, but it STILL had bug issues. And at $50, it got trounced in sales. I don't like that we are at a time when release dates are such an important factor in marketshare. This is a process that was started w/Madden years ago, and has gotten progressively worse. I wouldn't expect a smaller developer to be able to compete w/a competitor that's many times it's size w/much larger resources and still be competitive. Quietcool, for someone that does reviews of games you should know more than anyone else - if all the sports games were $50 this year, or if the VC games had released much later than the EA games, most people wouldn't have given a second look. Other than the hardcore minority, which will STILL find something wrong with the game(s) - we all acknowledge no game is going to be perfect. I've read so many threads where some act as if paying $20 for a VC game takes slow, careful, thoughtful consideration. And getting the higher priced game is a no-brainer.

I only say the TO bug isn't as huge an issue some make it out to be because most of my games don't come down to the last minute. When I watch a game on TV, most don't come down to the last minute. If I'm in a situation where the computer needs to call a TO, then if I play smart it shouldn't win anyway. I don't like that in some games you have a high number of turnovers. Or any of the other issues people have noted about 2k5. But I guess I'm not that deep into trying to create a franchise that mirrors or parallels what I read in the sports section of the paper. Again, I'm not trying to excuse them for everything wrong w/the game. I just don't think things have to be totally blown out of proportion.

I think the reason so may people are up in arms over VC's games it their arse-backwards development philosophy of "glitz first, playtesting later... or not at all."

VC makes some of the most attractive games available of any genre. But the guffaws and bonehead oversights are so incredibly stupid that it is beyond comprehension for sim-ballers like myself and others on these boards.

Its like VC manufactures this beatiful Ferrari..
..and forgets the door-locks, radio, gas cap, air conditioner and power-steering.

Think about it- VC comes so close to making a worldbeater, but then the most obvious playtesting oversights go un-detected.

Or worse... they are detected, and nothing is done.

It wouldn't take that much to fix these games. Maybe a week of playtesting and a week of fixes- before the CD goes to master. But year after year, they rush a product out the door.

And trust me, I slam EA when its deserved too. You obviously didn't read my review of NCAA Football 2005. (I'm still getting hate mail from EA fanboys for that one.) As for the juiced defense in Madden, I see your point. But I'd rather be able to lower that defensive awareness slider and be able to fix that problem (like you can In Madden 2005) as opposed to being able to run "Gimme Post Routes" to a 3rd wideout lined up just off of the formation all day long, on any slider difficulty in NFL 2K5. I mean, one is correctable, one isn't.

If sliders can fix a problem- that's great. But how many of VC's game problems are fixable with slider.

VC needs to hire some hard-core gamers to assist with the development of their games. They come SO CLOSE to making a worldbeater in every attempt, but you know what happens at that point.

They miss the free throws that would have tied the game with EA.

(Hockey notwithstanding! EA has become VC's b*tch when it comes to hockey)

[koolbubbaice]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

I think I read your review of NCAA 2005. I think you gave it a 7.. Not sure. I read a review that really tore it to shreds for all the bugs it had.. If you say anything bad about NCAA 05 in here you'll get a quick, you just suck at the game attitude..The catching bug. The piss poor AI. The 10 yard tips. ESP speed demon secondary etc.. Can't believe the CPU still goes for it on their own 40 yard line, on 4th down, in the first quarter..

(Hockey notwithstanding! EA has become VC's b*tch when it comes to hockey)[/QUOTE]

[koolbubbaice]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

I think I read your review of NCAA 2005. I think you gave it a 7.. Not sure. I read a review that really tore it to shreds for all the bugs it had.. If you say anything bad about NCAA 05 in here you'll get a quick, you just suck at the game attitude..The catching bug. The piss poor AI. The 10 yard tips. ESP speed demon secondary etc.. Can't believe the CPU still goes for it on their own 40 yard line, on 4th down, in the first quarter..

(Hockey notwithstanding! EA has become VC's b*tch when it comes to hockey)[/QUOTE]

[neovsmatrix]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

"VC makes some of the most attractive games available of any genre. But the guffaws and bonehead oversights are so incredibly stupid that it is beyond comprehension for sim-ballers like myself and others on these boards. "

Gaffes. Guffaw is a sort of laugh, gaffe is synonymous with egregious error.

By the way, I agree with you. The issue isn't that they took major strides to innovate this year and thus they were susceptible to a lot of bugs. The issue is that they ALWAYS innovate from year to year, even where innovation isn't even needed, and their games come out buggy year after year. There's not enough playtesting and play balancing done. In the end, the consumers have become the playtesters and the ones who balance the gameplay instead of the developers. That's not right, IMHO.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

"VC makes some of the most attractive games available of any genre. But the guffaws and bonehead oversights are so incredibly stupid that it is beyond comprehension for sim-ballers like myself and others on these boards. "

Gaffes. Guffaw is a sort of laugh, gaffe is synonymous with egregious error.

By the way, I agree with you. The issue isn't that they took major strides to innovate this year and thus they were susceptible to a lot of bugs. The issue is that they ALWAYS innovate from year to year, even where innovation isn't even needed, and their games come out buggy year after year. There's not enough playtesting and play balancing done. In the end, the consumers have become the playtesters and the ones who balance the gameplay instead of the developers. That's not right, IMHO.

[koolbubbaice]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Would you wait 2 yrs for a football game that contained no bugs? There are bugs due to time constraints.. VC/EA know they are there..

[koolbubbaice]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Would you wait 2 yrs for a football game that contained no bugs? There are bugs due to time constraints.. VC/EA know they are there..

[neovsmatrix]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Would you wait 2 yrs for a football game that contained no bugs? There are bugs due to time constraints.. VC/EA know they are there..

Honestly? YEAH, I would. I would gladly wait, while they issued roster updates for the year in between. If it meant a more refined game, with actually good gameplay, I would gladly wait that long.

[neovsmatrix]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Would you wait 2 yrs for a football game that contained no bugs? There are bugs due to time constraints.. VC/EA know they are there..

Honestly? YEAH, I would. I would gladly wait, while they issued roster updates for the year in between. If it meant a more refined game, with actually good gameplay, I would gladly wait that long.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Honestly? YEAH, I would. I would gladly wait, while they issued roster updates for the year in between. If it meant a more refined game, with actually good gameplay, I would gladly wait that long.

same here.. but money is key. and with a new game every year, it equals a lot more money than just a 5 dollar roster update for a year old game....

You think they would then, increase the price of the bi-annual sports games to like 59.99?

[RubenDouglas]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Honestly? YEAH, I would. I would gladly wait, while they issued roster updates for the year in between. If it meant a more refined game, with actually good gameplay, I would gladly wait that long.

same here.. but money is key. and with a new game every year, it equals a lot more money than just a 5 dollar roster update for a year old game....

You think they would then, increase the price of the bi-annual sports games to like 59.99?

[Admiral50]

Re: CPU Timeout problem, reason inside

Would you wait 2 yrs for a football game that contained no bugs? There are bugs due to time constraints.. VC/EA know they are there..

Really? So we have to wait 5 years for a VC bball game next time around then? Because they've had a few bugs (some are bugs, some are bad gameplay implementations) there for 3 or 4 years and totally ignored them.