2020 Offseason Thread

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  • cjonesfan921
    UGH, next year
    • Jan 2005
    • 20081

    #91
    Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

    Lebron should have way more MVPs. He’s just a victim of the changing times. It’s a crime he hasn’t won since 2013.


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    • King_B_Mack
      All Star
      • Jan 2009
      • 24450

      #92
      Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

      Originally posted by cjonesfan921
      Lebron should have way more MVPs. He’s just a victim of the changing times. It’s a crime he hasn’t won since 2013.


      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
      What's changing about the times? Michael Jordan should have more than he does and so should LeBron. Seems about like the same old, same old here.

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      • King_B_Mack
        All Star
        • Jan 2009
        • 24450

        #93
        Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

        Originally posted by dubcity
        But who is actually the most valuable player? I mean, we can go with narratives or go with reality. Give it to Steve Nash or give it to Shaq?
        You're seriously trying to make this argument? So the Milwaukee Bucks are the best team in the NBA without Giannis? The Milwaukee Bucks are a playoff team if Giannis isn't there? Cause we know what the Lakers minus LeBron with Anthony Davis can be.

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        • tru11
          MVP
          • Aug 2010
          • 1816

          #94
          Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

          Originally posted by King_B_Mack
          You're seriously trying to make this argument? So the Milwaukee Bucks are the best team in the NBA without Giannis? The Milwaukee Bucks are a playoff team if Giannis isn't there? Cause we know what the Lakers minus LeBron with Anthony Davis can be.


          We saw what the lakers where without davis last year lol.


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          • ojandpizza
            Hall Of Fame
            • Apr 2011
            • 29807

            #95
            Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

            Originally posted by King_B_Mack
            You're seriously trying to make this argument? So the Milwaukee Bucks are the best team in the NBA without Giannis? The Milwaukee Bucks are a playoff team if Giannis isn't there? Cause we know what the Lakers minus LeBron with Anthony Davis can be.

            The Bucks are better without Giannis than the Lakers without LeBron though.. that’s primarily the reason people are saying LeBron has an argument?


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            • ojandpizza
              Hall Of Fame
              • Apr 2011
              • 29807

              #96
              2020 Offseason Thread

              Not worth it
              Last edited by ojandpizza; 09-19-2020, 04:09 AM. Reason: Not worth it

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              • King_B_Mack
                All Star
                • Jan 2009
                • 24450

                #97
                Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                Originally posted by ojandpizza
                The Bucks are better without Giannis than the Lakers without LeBron though.. that’s primarily the reason people are saying LeBron has an argument?


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                Big time disagree with that. If you started the season with the Lakers without LeBron and the Bucks without Giannis, no chance the Bucks are better than that Lakers team lead by Anthony Davis.


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                • Yeah...THAT Guy
                  Once in a Lifetime Memory
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 17294

                  #98
                  Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                  The only argument for Lebron to have a single first place vote this year is “Come on, he’s Lebron.”

                  The award is about who had the best regular season. Giannis had him beat statistically by a significant margin. Giannis played better defense by a significant margin. Giannis’ individual metrics were better. Giannis’ impact metrics were better. Giannis’ team was better as a result of his play.

                  But Lebron is Lebron.

                  If you want to say Lebron (or Kawhi for that matter) are still better players than Giannis, I think that’s reasonable. But they didn’t play like they were better in the regular season.
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                  • cima
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Sep 2004
                    • 13478

                    #99
                    Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                    We've been down this road 1000x before. You can make an argument for either. If you don't believe narratives should matter then yeah Giannis had the better year. If you place more emphasis on the word "valuable" in terms of which team is better without their star, then LeBron is MVP. If you believe narratives do matter because historically narrative has always mattered in MVP voting otherwise LeBron, MJ, Kobe, Shaq, etc would have more MVPs and Steve Nash would have 0, then you could argue either guy as well.

                    I'm fine with Giannis getting MVP. I think LeBron is salty that Giannis won both MVP & DPOY because LeBron should also be in that category but DPOY went to a guy that didn't even make 1st-team defense that year while he finished 2nd in voting and made 1st team. Just like he was salty Curry got to be the first ever unanimous MVP when he was robbed of it cause that one voter had an agenda to make sure he didn't get unanimous MVP.

                    Was funny him bringing up all those receipts last night in the presser, lol. He's right though, the "experts" voting for these awards probably don't watch that many games.
                    Last edited by cima; 09-19-2020, 10:16 AM.

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                    • georgiafan
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 11104

                      #100
                      Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                      The clippers can’t trade a 1st round pick until 2028
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                      • BleacherBum2310
                        All Star
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 7107

                        #101
                        Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                        Originally posted by dubcity
                        But who is actually the most valuable player? I mean, we can go with narratives or go with reality. Give it to Steve Nash or give it to Shaq?
                        Or we can go with who was the best in the regular season which is what the award is Giannis by a decent amount. I'm sorry they got exposed but that doesn't charge the award. Also the narrative based winner would've been LeBron not Giannis. So I don't really get that argument at all. But I agree with his point in general it just didn't happen in this circumstance.

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                        • dubcity
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • May 2012
                          • 17874

                          #102
                          Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                          The fact that we know the logic and criteria used doesn't make it the right logic or criteria, especially when the voters often pick and choose when to ignore things in favor of a bigger "story," or they just fall in line with a season long narrative/drumbeat.

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                          • J_Posse
                            Greatness Personified
                            • Jun 2005
                            • 11255

                            #103
                            Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                            Originally posted by dubcity
                            The fact that we know the logic and criteria used doesn't make it the right logic or criteria, especially when the voters often pick and choose when to ignore things in favor of a bigger "story," or they just fall in line with a season long narrative/drumbeat.
                            What was the story or narrative in favor of LeBron?

                            Playing with a top 5 teammate, playing in the second biggest market, the untimely passing of Bryant (which had absolutely no on court impact), his child & several other individuals or helping the biggest "glamour" organization to the #1 seed?

                            Cause on the court & in the regular season Giannis was unquestionably the MVP.

                            Now, he needs to quiet the doubters & skeptics by ringing. Or he'll begin to receive the same criticism as LeBron in Cleveland (first go round), Mike before '91, Durant in Oklahoma City & so forth.

                            And the most ironic part is fans are now doing to Giannis what was done to LeBron (pre - championship in Miami). Giannis is the only tier 1 player (with James, Leonard & a healthy Durant) who is elite on both ends.

                            He still has a major flaw & needs to win a championship, but all three of those guys have/would be "exposed" against a bad matchup (and a bum ankle).

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                            Last edited by J_Posse; 09-19-2020, 05:20 PM.
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                            • cima
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 13478

                              #104
                              Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                              For you Athletic subscribers, good piece on the Clips from Shams so you know it's legit: https://theathletic.com/2078184/2020...shared-article

                              For his part, Paul George had a disappointing series against Denver, and had several moments that left him in compromising positions with his teammates — beyond just his production. Multiple teammates had verbal spats with George throughout the postseason, citing in their exchanges a lack of accountability from him.

                              In the postgame locker room Tuesday night, George was preaching to teammates to remain committed, for all the players to return to the team this offseason and stay ready to make another run. It was met by some eye rolls and bewilderment, sources said, because George did not back up his words with action in the series and the team has multiple free agents with decisions to make. George scored 10 points on 4 of 16 shooting and 2 of 11 from 3-point range in the Game 7 defeat.

                              “We can only get better the longer we stay together and the more we’re around each other,” George said after the game. “I think that’s really the tale of the tape of this season. We just didn’t have enough time together.”
                              He's really trying to run with this "didn't have enough time together" narrative like the Lakers didn't overhaul almost their entire roster this offseason or when the Cavs traded basically their entire team at the 2018 deadline and still got to the Finals.

                              Maybe next year get rid of that load management BS and run a real offense instead of exchanging ISOs.

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                              • georgiafan
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 11104

                                #105
                                Re: 2020 Offseason Thread

                                This is what you get for treating the regular season like it doesn't matter. They are a brand new team with high Maintence players you cant just flip a switch come playoff time.

                                If they are still doing the load management thing next year I will expect the same result. The West will be even tougher next year with Golden State back in the playoffs in the place of OKC. Then you have other young teams like Suns, Pelicans, Wolves that will be legit threats to make the playoffs.

                                Sometime is going to overpay Harrell so if they bring him back its not going to be cheap.


                                Originally posted by cima
                                For you Athletic subscribers, good piece on the Clips from Shams so you know it's legit: https://theathletic.com/2078184/2020...shared-article



                                He's really trying to run with this "didn't have enough time together" narrative like the Lakers didn't overhaul almost their entire roster this offseason or when the Cavs traded basically their entire team at the 2018 deadline and still got to the Finals.

                                Maybe next year get rid of that load management BS and run a real offense instead of exchanging ISOs.
                                Retro Redemption - Starting over with a oldschool PowerBone Offense

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