2021 Offseason Thread

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Y’all acting like this man Russ is shooting 10 threes a night and just shooting all his teams out of games [emoji23]. I know he’s not a great shooter, but I don’t think he’s even remotely close to the worst. I need to see more stats than just 3pt% on number of attempts because this guy doesn’t give a **** about his percentages. He doesn’t pass to someone else late in the clock to protect his efficiency, he doesn’t not pull from half court when time is running out, he doesn’t shy away from heat checks or momentum destroying bombs when his team is on a run, hell he’ll chase down a board 15ft away from him just to get up 1 more full court heavy before a quarter ends. That’s just his motor... you take out the misses from those crazy attempts and I bet it paints a different picture. He stays anywhere near that 36% on catch and shoot threes he was last yeah then he’s fine.

Bro, how you gonna make the argument that the worst 3 point shooter in NBA history isn't that bad if you just ignore his stats and shot selection??

FWIW, he's had 1 heave in his last 4 seasons.

[TMagic]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Personally, the issues I have with Westbrook is that I feel he can be so much better. He just plays the game like he's being usered by someone outside of sim nation [emoji23]

And I don't think the Nets comparisons concerning the issues around "fit" are really equal here...

The Nets big three are all in their prime. All are literally the absolute BEST isolation scorers in the league. And all three are knock down three point shooters. We should have known they'd be fine. None of that applies to the Lakers big three at all. Lol

The good thing is, I don't think it will take much for it to work. If AD buys in to playing the 5 and improving his three ball off the catch, that honestly might just be enough all on its own. And if Westbrook goes as hard on defense as he does with the ball in his hands the league will definitely be in trouble.

And everything isn't black and white people. Just because folks are raising concerns doesn't mean that there's a feeling the Lakers won't make the playoffs or won't be one of the leagues best teams. Of course they'll be good. I haven't seen anyone saying otherwise.

The issue is if they could beat every team they need to win a chip. That's a big question mark.

[ojandpizza]

2021 Offseason Thread

What news are you going to get about Schroder right now. He's a UFA and free agency doesn't open until the 2nd. On top of that he's not in the top tier of free agents available so it's not like all the reporters are canvassing the league on Dennis Schroder news.

I still don't get why you and Laker fans keep dreaming up all these deals where you get players based on sign and trade scenarios for Schroder. The teams he's been linked to the most the Knicks and Bulls will have the cap space to sign him out right and the only reason to do a sign and trade at that point would be if he wanted to help out the Lakers to get something for him. In order for him to be apart of a sign and trade that gets them Buddy Hield he'd have to actually WANT to go to Sacramento and they'd have to WANT to sign Dennis Schroder.

The article is based on the assumption he would go to Washington. Which was basically what I had said too, I was just rattling off some stupid hypothetical though for the fun of it though.

And the Bulls actually can’t sign him outright, not for the money he’s projected to get. Think they would have to renounce rights to everyone, including some guys like Lauri, Theis, and still make a move to clear more space after. A Bulls S&T would make sense though. If Chicago send back some combination with 2 of Thad/Tomas/Aminu they could pay Schroder the rumored amounts will still bringing back a couple of those guys who have cap holds while staying under the hard cap. Chicago is sitting on basically 100mil in cap now, 66 mil in cap holds.

I was going to ask you if Chicago was even a real thing. The “Chicago willing to offer 150mil” felt like a Schroder camp leak to get him more money by making up a ridiculous amount to the team that has his former coach.. but I have since seen that Billy is interested too. Bulls already have scoring guard potential in a younger player with White though, so I didn’t know.

Again like you said he would have to want to go to the Bulls or Knicks too, something that hasn’t been said for either of them. I’m not sure Knicks rumors are even true, I can’t imagine their vision is locking up B level guys like Randle and Schroder long term is their plan to square off against teams who have superstars. But who knows it’s the Knicks. Maybe a back up plan if they strike out on everyone else, but even a guy like Kemba makes a bit more sense for them. Though he’s not a FA, OKC would happily get off that contract.

A Schroder S&T doesn’t only help the Lakers. It also gets him to a team he wants to go to that doesn’t have the cap to sign him outright. So there are plenty of reasons for him to want to do it. Regardless I think the most likely scenario is the Lakers just keeping him. Seems silly to let him walk for nothing, they of all teams shouldn’t be concerned with luxury tax in a LeBron window, and his contract can always be moved down the line.


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[ojandpizza]

2021 Offseason Thread

Bro, how you gonna make the argument that the worst 3 point shooter in NBA history isn't that bad if you just ignore his stats and shot selection??

FWIW, he's had 1 heave in his last 4 seasons.

I’m saying that he’s a player who doesn’t care what his percentages are and doesn’t shy away from plays that can hurt them. Like most of these top tier players aren’t going to throw up a shot late in the shot clock if they can’t get a decent shot, he just doesn’t care.

I’m not saying he’s not a bad shooter, but for a guy taking 4 threes a night just a few of those a year is enough to move the tiny differences in him vs other % guys. I guess time will tell, but if he shoots anything close to the 36% on catch and shoot attempts he did last year then it’s not a concern at all.

Regardless the guy takes 3-4 a night. Ideally I understand the Lakers want shooting, but a guy who takes 3-4 a night isn’t going to swing that team number enough regardless. Even if it’s the best shooter alive. So to me Westbrook being the concern seems a little bit of “make a big deal out of nothing” until we know that the Lakers aren’t adding shooting elsewhere. Yeah if the Lakers have a horrible rest of free agency and aren’t able to get some decent shooters, then the Westbrook situation might be a bit more concerning. But for now they’ve just added a guy who’s not really worse than what they already had but a substantially better basketball player.


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[cima]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

[TMagic]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

I’m saying that he’s a player who doesn’t care what his percentages are and doesn’t shy away from plays that can hurt them. Like most of these top tier players aren’t going to throw up a shot late in the shot clock if they can’t get a decent shot, he just doesn’t care.

I’m not saying he’s not a bad shooter, but for a guy taking 4 threes a night just a few of those a year is enough to move the tiny differences in him vs other % guys. I guess time will tell, but if he shoots anything close to the 36% on catch and shoot attempts he did last year then it’s not a concern at all.

Regardless the guy takes 3-4 a night. Ideally I understand the Lakers want shooting, but a guy who takes 3-4 a night isn’t going to swing that team number enough regardless. Even if it’s the best shooter alive. So to me Westbrook being the concern seems a little bit of “make a big deal out of nothing” until we know that the Lakers aren’t adding shooting elsewhere. Yeah if the Lakers have a horrible rest of free agency and aren’t able to get some decent shooters, then the Westbrook situation might be a bit more concerning. But for now they’ve just added a guy who’s not really worse than what they already had but a substantially better basketball player.


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You, more than anybody here, know how important it is to apply context to shooting stats. That simply looking at numbers doesn't tell the entire story.

Sure Westbrook hitting 35% or whatever is fine

But how is that affecting defenses on each possession? Remember that a team only needs to be better on ONE possession to win a game.

When the ball is being rotated, and he is the recipient on the weakside with a BETTER shooter in the corner...how likely is the defender responsible for zoning up/splitting Russ and that corner shooter going to make the decision to close out to Russ and leave the better shooter open? Now the better shooter is losing attempts every game in these situations.

How many more times will defenses be able to send help to double and/or zone up on Bron and AD when they are driving or posting because they are worried about being torched by Westbrook from deep? Bron and AD will be less efficient in these situations compared to having a reliable shooter in his spot.

These are things that aren't taken into account when we just say that player X shoots 33% so that's good enough.

(Note that of course I'm aware of the positives he brings. Just wanted to speak to the 3 point shooting discussion specifically lol)

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

You, more than anybody here, know how important it is to apply context to shooting stats. That simply looking at numbers doesn't tell the entire story.

Sure Westbrook hitting 35% or whatever is fine

But how is that affecting defenses on each possession? Remember that a team only needs to be better on ONE possession to win a game.

When the ball is being rotated, and he is the recipient on the weakside with a BETTER shooter in the corner...how likely is the defender responsible for zoning up/splitting Russ and that corner shooter going to make the decision to close out to Russ and leave the better shooter open? Now the better shooter is losing attempts every game in these situations.

How many more times will defenses be able to send help to double and/or zone up on Bron and AD when they are driving or posting because they are worried about being torched by Westbrook from deep? Bron and AD will be less efficient in these situations compared to having a reliable shooter in his spot.

These are things that aren't taken into account when we just say that player X shoots 33% so that's good enough.

(Note that of course I'm aware of the positives he brings. Just wanted to speak to the 3 point shooting discussion specifically lol)

I feel like these are all questions or concerns that we can’t possibly know the effects of until we know who’s starting at the 2 and 3 for them. Or if they bring in another big vs actually playing AD at the 5. The addition of Westbrook alone doesn’t scare me in that sense. I don’t see him just being completely left on an island and even if he is Westbrook isn’t a guy who would be stuck standing, I feel like the risk of him back cutting for a dunk is too much of a risk for the defense to just over shift and completely ignore him.

To your point I’m sure there will be times defenses do overplay away from him. But enough to really hurt them? I’m not sure. I don’t see that happening 10 times a game where he’s just left completely open and forced into a kick out 3. Teams tried doing that to Rondo and he hit enough of them to make them pay, I think Westbrook can do that, and also hurt them with the cuts like mentioned before.

You’re right, all it takes is one possession. But how many games do teams find themselves in a one possession moment late in games? I’m not saying it won’t happen, I’m almost sure it will happen, but the frequency in which that one situation pops up and becomes a problem is pretty low.

I’m not saying his play style, shooting, decision making etc just isn’t going to be a factor at all. I just think it’s being exaggerated. Not just for the Lakers but for Westbrook in his career in general. But like I said I know I’m in the minority as it’s basically only me and Pack in here saying this in his defense basically every season.


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[cima]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Are people still gonna talk about spacing issues if the starting 5 is WB/Bullock/Melo/Bron/AD? Or WB/Hield/Gay/Bron/AD?


People need to pump the brakes until this roster fills out, it's like ****ing civil war in Lakers fandom.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Are people still gonna talk about spacing issues if the starting 5 is WB/Bullock/Melo/Bron/AD? Or WB/Hield/Gay/Bron/AD?


People need to pump the brakes until this roster fills out, it's like ****ing civil war in Lakers fandom.

I've seen where Gay and Melo are both strongly linked to the Lakers... But surely neither of them would start, and to answer your question, yes I would have spacing concerns with either of those two in the line-up. And Bron would have to be the 3 in either of those scenarios as well.

I don't think Bullock is a possibility personally. I think he is priced out of what the Lakers can offer him. Surely he will command full MLE type of money.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Bobby Porto's hitting the free market. Trying to get paid.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Bobby Porto's hitting the free market. Trying to get paid.

Don't blame him, but damn that is a huge loss for the Bucks.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

And I don't think the Nets comparisons concerning the issues around "fit" are really equal here...

The Nets big three are all in their prime. All are literally the absolute BEST isolation scorers in the league. And all three are knock down three point shooters. We should have known they'd be fine.

Sure fooled me when it happened, lol.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Interesting tidbit in the Schroder situation, anything above a 19.2 year 1 salary in his extension and his outgoing trade value drops to 16 mil because of the Base Year Compensation rule. So if his new deals pays 20 mil in year 1 he can only be traded at 16 mil trade value. However if that contract starts at anything between 16-19.2 that is his true outgoing value.

So connecting some dots to rumors here.....

That means he is enough for Hield by himself if there is something to that crazy 3 team mess. And he plus McKinnie would be enough for say Thad Young and Satoransky if there really is strong interest between he and Chicago.

Bulls officially offered Lauri his QO so I don't believe they have the space to sign him even if they were renounce rights to everyone else and drop Thad and Tomas before their money is fully guaranteed. Sitting at basically 109mil now with Lauri's qualifying offer. Think the cap this year is 112mil.

Don't think the Lakers would have huge interest in that trade without at least a 2nd round pick in return. Especially if Gay and Melo are really on board, Thad or even Aminu would be a huge overlap considering Morris is likely still in play too. Also worth noting Ayo was mentioned to be the guy they wanted at 22 if Duarte was off the board. At this point not sure how crazy it sounds to assume that could have been a pick for the Lakers. Especially considering the Bulls have LaVine, White, Satoranksy, Ayo, and are still looking for a point guard. Or the Bulls wanted the hometown guy knowing others were on the way out.

[dubcity]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

Are people still gonna talk about spacing issues if the starting 5 is WB/Bullock/Melo/Bron/AD? Or WB/Hield/Gay/Bron/AD?


People need to pump the brakes until this roster fills out, it's like ****ing civil war in Lakers fandom.

Well, Melo is the all-time leader in game-winning shots, and Westbrook was the most clutch player last season, so that should be an automatic ring.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/status/1421546436945133579?s=19

I wonder where in the trade