UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

[Haz____]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

I'll say, I used a lot of head movement, considering the circumstances.

Trust me when I say, using headmovement, and being a slick movement guy is pretty much the only thing I do with like 90% of my play time. I hit what was there. And you see me trying to slip his non stop jabs and straight a lot throughout the entire fight. But when the opponent is throwing non stop, and is decent enough to mix it up enough and make it hard to read, compounded by the stat disadvantage, even a guy like me who just practices and uses the headmovement and movement systems non stop; it's very very much easier said than done.

I do agree I needed to throw more body shots, but it's just tough. No excuses, but you feel like your stuck in the mud, and there is no opening... but you are definitely right.

Round 2 he is at 75% stamina, but so am I. And he threw over 100 more strikes than me. That's not right.

Round 3 and on I stayed in the pocket, because trying to be slick and counter wasn't working, and with half a gas tank, there's no way to pull off a move and counter gameplan. Trying to pressure into the clinch was the adjustment in my gameplan that ended up getting me the win in the end.

[johnmangala]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

If block were weaker with a higher stamina drain from blocked strikes I think stamina would be perfect. Maybe not perfect but that and less tracking it should be easier to fight defensively. Irl MMA strikes miss more than they land. Having better footwork that dodges strikes laterally would be ideal. That and lateral sprinting or faster circling with L3.

I can drain people’s stamina pretty well with the tools given but I do agree that it shouldn’t be be as hard. The tracking is what makes defense harder than it should.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

I'll say, I used a lot of head movement, considering the circumstances.

Trust me when I say, using headmovement, and being a slick movement guy is pretty much the only thing I do with like 90% of my play time. I hit what was there. And you see me trying to slip his non stop jabs and straight a lot throughout the entire fight. But when the opponent is throwing non stop, and is decent enough to mix it up enough and make it hard to read, compounded by the stat disadvantage, even a guy like me who just practices and uses the headmovement and movement systems non stop; it's very very much easier said than done.

I do agree I needed to throw more body shots, but it's just tough. No excuses, but you feel like your stuck in the mud, and there is no opening... but you are definitely right.

Round 2 he is at 75% stamina, but so am I. And he threw over 100 more strikes than me. That's not right.

Round 3 and on I stayed in the pocket, because trying to be slick and counter wasn't working, and with half a gas tank, there's no way to pull off a move and counter gameplan. Trying to pressure into the clinch was the adjustment in my gameplan that ended up getting me the win in the end.

But thats because you took a ****load more damage and were knocked down, right? Your not comparing apples to apples. If he was throwing and wasnt landing, you were throwing much less and you ended up with the same stamina...that would help your point.

You attempted head movement at times but you werent successful with timing it. If you were, there wouldve been more whiffs and his stamina wouldve been in significantly worse shape.

I have all sorts of issues with how stamina is implemented in this game but I dont think there will ever be a time where blocking shots is going to be a significant way to drain stamina. The ranked players will cry about turtling and it seems to be something the devs agree with.

Ok...back to me not commenting on gameplay.

[Haz____]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Respect for your input either way. You took the time to watch that video, so I sincerely appreciate the input.

I just personally feel like it is not at all as easy to execute in the field, as it is to talk about how to do it. But it is what it is.

I personally will never be Ok with 169 strikes, in a 3 minute accelerated round, no matter the context. That's just super video gamey, and lame to me, and not what I'm looking for in my MMA Sports game at all.

The game has its rules and systems that it functions under, and it does indeed function. I just don't enjoy it, or agree with it.





*edit*
I'll also say, Since day 1 Ive been on the 'weaker block, higher stamina drain' train. Weaker block, less accuracy & strike tracking, higher stamina drain, higher power. That makes way more sense with how reality works. The reliance on breaking the block as the foundation of the damage system is just crazy to me.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

If the block was weaker he would have just knocked you out in the first round and honestly I think you would then come and complain about how people can just bumrush round 1 finishes and the game isn't forgiving enough to let you weather the storm.

The issue with general advice like "use head movement" or "hit the body" is that they don't actually tell you how you are supposed to accomplish those goals. For instance, you admittedly use lots of sways but I don't see much reasoning behind them. You go for side sways in close distance which is when your opponent is most likely to throw hooks so you are self-sabotaging yourself. The first knockdown (2:00 on YouTube) is a pretty good example of where both your block and head health are low yet you are the one who is engaging with side sways and get punished. Then literally 10 seconds later you once again do a side-sway in close distance with low head health. As Alberto mentioned, those mistakes pretty much neutered whatever stamina lead you would have had. (For what it's worth, I strongly disagree with the whole logic that knockdowns permanently decrease stamina).

For the rest of the round, he definitely gives you "room to breathe" but you are the one who keeps walking up to him either blocking or doing random side sways with no follow-up. He is very uncomfortable with you appraoching him, as evidenced by him smashing buttons whenever you get close enough. If you face someone who does that then you can simply get in his strike distance then back away to make him whiff. If he keeps backing away then eventually he is stuck versus the cage where you have control of the engages. Instead, you went for pretty bizarre head movements and actually just ate most of his strikes with no benefit.

Other general suggestions.

- Pay more attention to your distance because it affects what your opponent goes for. For instance, this Max went for jabs/straights from max (nice pun) distance when his hooks could not reach you. That's when it makes more sense to do side-steps/sways. When he was even further away he liked to go for leg/body kicks so you focus on blocking low. Theoretically he could go for a headkick but you need to either eat bunch of them or lean into it for them to screw you over whereas countering it once screws them over instead. Alternatively, you can read the kick and time a counter-punch. It's quite effective with characters that have the haymaker.

- Don't go for multiple sways (e.g. side then down). I would only save them for super hard reads but even then I don't think it's worth the risk. Just blocking the first few strikes then swaying the big hit is more consistent.

- Slip straight. To be blunt, I wonder what exactly do you do when you "practice head movement nonstop" when that is the fundamental head movement maneuver and you never use it. In general you hardly ever actually throw anything after swaying which strongly suggests that you're not being proactive with them but just yolo-ing them.

- Pretty OK general rule of thumb is that if you are pressured then block the first 2 strikes (can vary based on block etc) then back sway the third hit. This is because the first two strikes can vary between straights, hooks and uppercuts and they're meant to break your block anyway whereas the third hit is almost always going to be a non-straight because they deal more damage and back sway covers both of them. You need to mix it up at higher levels but that's not something you need to concern yourself with since you're not aspiring to become a top tier player.

- There's plenty of material online for landing body strikes. Here's just a few: Lead body hook, cross + lead body hook, body jab + lead hook, body knee, jab + rear body kick, jab fake into rear body kick, cross into rear body kick (works with Muay Thai-ish guys), switch body kick, stationary lead body kick, push kick. I'd strongly suggest watching Martial Mind's Jon Jones clips because you need to utilize those to use Jones well on feet.

- Good times to throw them are when your opponent has low stamina, is done with their combo or are walking forward. For example, there wasn't a moment in that fight where Max walked forward where he didn't throw something so you can easily time him.

-----

I didn't think the video was that outrageous since he actually didn't come forward that much all things considered. I don't think throwing hundreds of strikes per round should be sustainable but it should be rewarded if you are being efficient with it. In my ideal scenario, this Max would have gassed sooner but he also would have won in the first three minutes as you were a human punching bag and shouldn't be able to take that much damage.

[That Ragdoll Guy]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Real unranked fighter names for career mode. Dont care about the real fighter model of prelim fighters, but put their real names in for undercard career mode fights.

[west coast offense]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

I have changed my mind i need pride mode with wrestling shoes included in caf dammit

[Haz____]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

I had another fight last night with dude throwing over 160 strikes in a single round. I KOd him as well. These guys are just incredibly unfun to play against.

It's just so annoying how common, and normal this type of thing is online.

Should I post this video too?

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

I had another fight last night with dude throwing over 160 strikes in a single round. I KOd him as well. These guys are just incredibly unfun to play against.

It's just so annoying how common, and normal this type of thing is online.

Should I post this video too?

yes please.

[Haz____]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Here it is. This was just last night, playing quick fight.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PpdDx_CcXzM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So in round 1 he throws 161 strikes. Only lands 65 of those. I throw 95, and land 52. I like to play like the fighter I am playing as actually fight like IRL, So I'm trying to pressure here quite a bit. My opponent is content to just mash on 1-2 1-2s, and hooks like a mad lad...

I try to use some headmovement, & try to rip the body a bit. 1 thing to note, I don't really ever play as Gaethje, so I keep trying to use the Stiff Arm Retreat, something I use a ton with other guys, but end up using his unique defense and eating 1-2's. My own fault there.

Watching the replay back, It kind of looks like he's giving me the hands in round 1, but when you look at the stats, I think I was actually more efficient and effective than he was.

Round 2 I come out, and I'm ready to heat it up a bit. And I also want to test his clinch a bit more. I basically just put it on him here, and the finishing knockout is pretty nasty.




Look, i'm not saying these players aren't beatable. It's just frustrating running into it all the time. 160+ strikes in a 3 minute round is just crazy. Most full 15 minute fights don't have that many strikes. I understand a higher pace for gameplay sake, but at some point it just feels a bit too far .

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Here it is. This was just last night, playing quick fight.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PpdDx_CcXzM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So in round 1 he throws 161 strikes. Only lands 65 of those. I throw 95, and land 52. I like to play like the fighter I am playing as actually fight like IRL, So I'm trying to pressure here quite a bit. My opponent is content to just mash on 1-2 1-2s, and hooks like a mad lad...

I try to use some headmovement, & try to rip the body a bit. 1 thing to note, I don't really ever play as Gaethje, so I keep trying to use the Stiff Arm Retreat, something I use a ton with other guys, but end up using his unique defense and eating 1-2's. My own fault there.

Watching the replay back, It kind of looks like he's giving me the hands in round 1, but when you look at the stats, I think I was actually more efficient and effective than he was.

Round 2 I come out, and I'm ready to heat it up a bit. And I also want to test his clinch a bit more. I basically just put it on him here, and the finishing knock out is pretty nasty.




Look, i'm not saying these players aren't beatable. It's just frustrating running into it all the time. 160+ strikes in a 3 minute round is just crazy. Most full 15 minute fights don't have that many strikes. I understand a higher pace for gameplay sake, but at some point it just feels a bit too far .

**** it. Like the ufc veteran said they sould make a sim mode for online quick matches where the stamina is realistic and especially the damage system. And when i say real damage system i mean real to the point that if im using francis and versing a jds i wanna be able to ko jds within 1 or 2 punches or at the very least drop him/rock him. And for stamina i dont want to see evryone with a colby covington pace or a tony ferguson pace. Unless they are using colby or ferguson,or a very high cardio fighter.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

**** it. Like the ufc veteran said they sould make a sim mode for online quick matches where the stamina is realistic and especially the damage system. And when i say real damage system i mean real to the point that if im using francis and versing a jds i wanna be able to ko jds within 1 or 2 punches or at the very least drop him/rock him. And for stamina i dont want to see evryone with a colby covington pace or a tony ferguson pace. Unless they are using colby or ferguson,or a very high cardio fighter.

Shadow,

Is this really what you want? Here is what it would take to do that:

- Stat wise, we would have to significantly lower JDS chin health, recovery and cardio stats...which is the exact opposite of what people here have been asking for. Without the lower health and recovery, JDS's chin would be to strong to get "KOd within 1 or 2 punches"

- The devs would have to increase vulnerability to the point where if JDS throws a basic strike, he would get KO'd by a punch or 2. The reality is most online players dont throw risky strikes alot. They spam basic ones with low vulnerability. So you would need to increase vulnerability on those strikes.

Those two things would significantly change the way the game plays. You would be literally scared to throw a basic strike against Ngannou because one counter could leave you flat.

Now maybe thats what you want. It would be an extreme version of the game. You would likely never see a decision online when facing a powerful fighter unless you were extremely conservative. It also could have the opposite effect of what Haz_ hates. Strike totals would be significantly below average.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing. Osers can want what they want. I do wonder if people would find throwing 20-30 strikes a round or having most fights finish in the first.....fun?

[MacGowan]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

I've ran a few different homemade settings of the game. Sliders in UFC3 (higher damage, higher stamina drain) and in UFC2; CAFs with severely lowered health. Also experimented with No stamina regeneration, and with no health regeneration. oh, and lower stats that forced a more differences in fighters skillset

(To note: grappling gets pretty ****ed at high stamina drain. Wrestlefooking someone for a whole round and then you're the one gassed)

Anyywho.

What I found is that most fights never went to the distance. **** most fights only lasted half a round. friends new to the game would just run out swinging from the fences and get clipped in the first 30 seconds (pretty realistically so.)

However, when I played with friends who knew the game it became a lot more realistic. Fighters would take rounds off, afraid to throw, lots of feinting and head movement. Every strike mattered. You could feel ever punch land. Still it was impossible to get to a DEC with the AI.

I don't really have a point here. I just think it's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation.

If you're making a car game you might be best just making Burnout. fun for everyone. I personally would love a Formula 1 simulator. But not many would. Best I could hope for now is just a sim mode within UFC 4. or more customisations and sliders to help get me there.

[SHADOW_UFCMMA]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Shadow,

Is this really what you want? Here is what it would take to do that:

- Stat wise, we would have to significantly lower JDS chin health, recovery and cardio stats...which is the exact opposite of what people here have been asking for. Without the lower health and recovery, JDS's chin would be to strong to get "KOd within 1 or 2 punches"

- The devs would have to increase vulnerability to the point where if JDS throws a basic strike, he would get KO'd by a punch or 2. The reality is most online players dont throw risky strikes alot. They spam basic ones with low vulnerability. So you would need to increase vulnerability on those strikes.

Those two things would significantly change the way the game plays. You would be literally scared to throw a basic strike against Ngannou because one counter could leave you flat.

Now maybe thats what you want. It would be an extreme version of the game. You would likely never see a decision online when facing a powerful fighter unless you were extremely conservative. It also could have the opposite effect of what Haz_ hates. Strike totals would be significantly below average.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing. Osers can want what they want. I do wonder if people would find throwing 20-30 strikes a round or having most fights finish in the first.....fun?

1- this is why i feel greedy if this was just added in the game on every mode. Hence why i stated why there should be sim mode. (For career,quick match,offline Etc....).

2-nvm everything you just said about jds... because lowering his health and doing all that work is no need. It illw just be more work for the devs and not realistic because they will also have to do that for every fighter in the h.w divison. Just no need. But what is in need is if the devs simply upped francis nganou's power to where the fight in the game can look like how the fight went in real life,or if im a facing a good jds player then vis versa.

3-and yes you already know me i would love to be scared in real life playing ufc 4 as weird as that sounds lol. If i had to face francis in sim mode on quick match i would be on my toes the whole time and really think about my next move and how much it will cost me.

4-and like macgowan said if you come across 2 smart players who know what they are doing on a sim mode fight,It will be the most real and fun gameplay a viewer can watch and a player can play.also could last a whole 5 rounds when you know what you are doing.


And to finally answer your question yes sir this is really what i want.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

1- this is why i feel greedy if this was just added in the game on every mode. Hence why i stated why there should be sim mode. (For career,quick match,offline Etc....).

2-nvm everything you just said about jds... because lowering his health and doing all that work is no need. It illw just be more work for the devs and not realistic because they will also have to do that for every fighter in the h.w divison. Just no need. But what is in need is if the devs simply upped francis nganou's power to where the fight in the game can look like how the fight went in real life,or if im a facing a good jds player then vis versa.

3-and yes you already know me i would love to be scared in real life playing ufc 4 as weird as that sounds lol. If i had to face francis in sim mode on quick match i would be on my toes the whole time and really think about my next move and how much it will cost me.

4-and like macgowan said if you come across 2 smart players who know what they are doing on a sim mode fight,It will be the most real and fun gameplay a viewer can watch and a player can play.also could last a whole 5 rounds when you know what you are doing.


And to finally answer your question yes sir this is really what i want.

Ngannou has the highest power rating of anyone in the game. He also has several level 5 strikes. He's about as powerful as you can get.

The issue is what I said before. Ive been able to get first round walkoff KOs with Francis in UFC 3. The issue is they only come if i catch my opponent in a high vulnerability state. So what you are asking for isnt a power buff. Its a buff to vulnerability and that affects alot.