UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

[wyrm187]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

No offense but that right there is the problem. The UFC has promoted the sport with highlight KOs and highlight reels of fights like Silva/Liddell but thats not the only or even a main aspect of the sport. There is a science to this sport. There are gameplans. If Diaz (and his corner) was smart he wouldve realized around round 3 that Condit wasnt getting tired, that his pressure gameplan wasnt working and that he needed to use his striking to get takedowns. If Diaz scored a takedown earlier and worked his BJJ, we probably wouldnt have this discussion.

I'm not going to begrudge Condit the way he fought. It seems like the majority of people wanted Condit to go in there, let Diaz bully him into the cage, trade punches with him and get finished. BJ Penn did that and probably ended his career with that approach. So did Frank Shamrock. So did Cyborg Santos. The list goes on and on. This is like people complaining that someone didnt let GSP take them down. Why would you fight someone in a way they are most comfortable?

Finally, Fans in general have such short memories. December gave us great cards with Rua/Henderson and Jones/Machida. Just 3 weeks ago, the Aldo card was great. It ebbs and flows.

no offense taken- like I said to each his own. I dont need to see a war everytime I see a fight or a tko/ko. This is only my personal opinion - I dont want to see a fight like that - ever, period. I really do understand and appreciate your respect for the game and how some people like yourself can appreciate that fight - personally I cannot. But for a guy who had the ability to take out Diaz and say I am the champ - I felt like he could've made a statement. We could argue about that as well but I liked Condit because he has a knack for finishing people - not hitting, running and outpointing. If this had been a fight lined up with a guy who was notorious for fighting like that - I would've never paid to see it.

He did make a statement - just not the one I was hoping for. Again this is just my opinion and I kinda expect to get flamed for stating it here - I know Im not going to change anyones mind and Im not trying to - just being honest, this is not what I look for in a fight.

Edit: and for the record I agree with you about Diaz not making adjustments. I was frustrated that he finally would grab onto Condit he would let him go .. . .he waited way to long to try and get him on the ground.

I dont really thinks its a problem either as you put it . .. I prefer a defensive, run first style of football because thats what ive grown to appreciate as a bears fan (kinda forced to lol). So it's not a problem that I dont care for a different type of fight than you do. If you have an appreciation of all variety of fights then I can respect that, but you should at least understand how people are different and don't have to share the same view.

[TheShizNo1]

I'm w/ you Aholbert, UFC has been putting on some great PPV cards lately. I can't say enough how awesome Rio was. This one wasn't even that bad.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

no offense taken- like I said to each his own. I dont need to see a war everytime I see a fight or a tko/ko. This is only my personal opinion - I dont want to see a fight like that - ever, period. I really do understand and appreciate your respect for the game and how some people like yourself can appreciate that fight - personally I cannot. But for a guy who had the ability to take out Diaz and say I am the champ - I felt like he could've made a statement. We could argue about that as well but I liked Condit because he has a knack for finishing people - not hitting, running and outpointing. If this had been a fight lined up with a guy who was notorious for fighting like that - I would've never paid to see it.

He did make a statement - just not the one I was hoping for. Again this is just my opinion and I kinda expect to get flamed for stating it here - I know Im not going to change anyones mind and Im not trying to - just being honest, this is not what I look for in a fight.

Edit: and for the record I agree with you about Diaz not making adjustments. I was frustrated that he finally would grab onto Condit he would let him go .. . .he waited way to long to try and get him on the ground.

I dont really thinks its a problem either as you put it . .. I prefer a defensive, run first style of football because thats what ive grown to appreciate as a bears fan (kinda forced to lol). So it's not a problem that I dont care for a different type of fight than you do. If you have an appreciation of all variety of fights then I can respect that, but you should at least understand how people are different and don't have to share the same view.

I'm not trying to flame you and I apologize if I came off that way. First, I just dont buy that Condit was playing the point game. I've seen people play the "point game" in Boxing and MMA. They constantly move, use the jab exclusively and take no chances. Condit wasnt doing that. He was kicking, threw a number of high kicks, spinning back fists, spinning back elbows and tried a two flying knees. He took a ton of chances in that fight.

I think the backlash is because the fight wasnt what everyone thought it would be. People thought it would be a typical Diaz bully fight where people trade punches on the outside of the cage. Now just because it wasnt the fight people expected doesnt mean it wasnt a good fight.

My point is if you are only watching MMA for brawl, you are missing a huge part of the sport. This isnt Boxing w/ smaller gloves. There is the ground game. Guys like Dominick Cruz who are light on their feet and fast. Guys who are just strict wrestlers. If you go into an MMA event expecting guys to just bang, you are going to be disappointed. They have Toughman competitions for stuff like that.

But if you learn to enjoy the strategy and the different techniques the sport offers, youll enjoy it more.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Diaz acted like a 4 year old and quit when he was out worked. Even if Diaz comes back, he should need 1 more fight before getting Condit or GSP. Give Diaz Koscheck before putting him back in the title/interim title picture.

In the perfect world, yeah that would make sense, but in reality the UFC is out to make money. Diaz vs Condit 2 is a bigger money draw then Diaz vs Koscheck.

Best believe Dana and the rest of them at the top WANT Diaz vs GSP before the year is out. That would be a huge money maker for them.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Seems like you're looking at two extremes Aaron. I wasn't expecting Condit to stand toe to toe with Diaz at all but I understand where wyrm is coming from.

The fight wasn't really that entertaining. It wasn't anyone's fault, it just wasn't really a fight like Dana was hyping. Sure Condit implemented a "strategy" or what have you, but honestly the exchanges were lack luster. Diaz shouldn't have just stood there taunting him and instead should have applied real pressure, not that fake pressure where you just posture with your hands up. Condit no doubt backed away at almost every moment of the fight.

It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the science of it at all.

[The Chef]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

In the perfect world, yeah that would make sense, but in reality the UFC is out to make money. Diaz vs Condit 2 is a bigger money draw then Diaz vs Koscheck.

Best believe Dana and the rest of them at the top WANT Diaz vs GSP before the year is out. That would be a huge money maker for them.

That would make no sense to me personally. If you thought the fight with Condit was boring just wait for a high level wrestler like Koscheck to lay on Diaz for 3 rounds in route to a win, Diaz will lose his mind if that happened. Then throw in the fact that if Koscheck wins, which I all but guarantee he would, what do they do with him then? There isn't a soul that wants to see him get dismantled by GSP again and suddenly Diaz slips even further down the ladder in that division. I read an interesting article that mentioned the best matchup for Diaz would be the winner of Alvez/Kampmann as he's almost guaranteed a stand up war with whoever was to win. I don't know how far down the ladder he's fallen to take that fight but it's far better then watching Koscheck or Fitch lay on him for 3 rounds.

[wyrm187]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

I'm not trying to flame you and I apologize if I came off that way. First, I just dont buy that Condit was playing the point game. I've seen people play the "point game" in Boxing and MMA. They constantly move, use the jab exclusively and take no chances. Condit wasnt doing that. He was kicking, threw a number of high kicks, spinning back fists, spinning back elbows and tried a two flying knees. He took a ton of chances in that fight.

I think the backlash is because the fight wasnt what everyone thought it would be. People thought it would be a typical Diaz bully fight where people trade punches on the outside of the cage. Now just because it wasnt the fight people expected doesnt mean it wasnt a good fight.

My point is if you are only watching MMA for brawl, you are missing a huge part of the sport. This isnt Boxing w/ smaller gloves. There is the ground game. Guys like Dominick Cruz who are light on their feet and fast. Guys who are just strict wrestlers. If you go into an MMA event expecting guys to just bang, you are going to be disappointed. They have Toughman competitions for stuff like that.

But if you learn to enjoy the strategy and the different techniques the sport offers, youll enjoy it more.

no worries I dont think you were flaming me - these boards are much more mature thats why I still come to them. I think you touched on the fact that my expectations were just higher - I expected a dog fight and obviously that wasnt the case. I respect the sport I just felt it was boring based on my expectations . .. .do you really feel that Condit was trying to take Diaz out or somehow finish him? I never thought Diaz was in any danger at any time - you don't think he was trying to just outpoint him?

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Seems like you're looking at two extremes Aaron. I wasn't expecting Condit to stand toe to toe with Diaz at all but I understand where wyrm is coming from.

The fight wasn't really that entertaining. It wasn't anyone's fault, it just wasn't really a fight like Dana was hyping. Sure Condit implemented a "strategy" or what have you, but honestly the exchanges were lack luster. Diaz shouldn't have just stood there taunting him and instead should have applied real pressure, not that fake pressure where you just posture with your hands up. Condit no doubt backed away at almost every moment of the fight.

It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the science of it at all.

You are helping my point though, Ex. Dana is a promoter. Every single UFC main event, he's hyped like its going to be a war. ****, he did that for Couture v. Coleman. People expected a war and didnt get one. But that doesnt mean there wasnt action.

How do you land 150 strikes in a fight and run the entire fight? Condit was throwing a ton of strikes (Even Diaz noticed it with his "Now we doing spinning ****" comment during the fight.) If anything it was Diaz that was lackluster as he failed to have a plan B when his plan A was clearly not working.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

no worries I dont think you were flaming me - these boards are much more mature thats why I still come to them. I think you touched on the fact that my expectations were just higher - I expected a dog fight and obviously that wasnt the case. I respect the sport I just felt it was boring based on my expectations . .. .do you really feel that Condit was trying to take Diaz out or somehow finish him? I never thought Diaz was in any danger at any time - you don't think he was trying to just outpoint him?

Lets say Condit landed one of those spinning back fists or elbows in the 4th and actually took Diaz out. We would be praising Carlos right now. Saying he had the perfect gameplan for Diaz and finished him.

My point is Carlos was trying to land significant strikes but he wasnt reckless with it or willing to be put in an uncomfortable position. Now I do think he took his foot off the trottle in round 5. I dont think his goal was to get a decision but he wasnt going to take any huge risks to get a stoppage.

[wyrm187]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

You are helping my point though, Ex. Dana is a promoter. Every single UFC main event, he's hyped like its going to be a war. ****, he did that for Couture v. Coleman. People expected a war and didnt get one. But that doesnt mean there wasnt action.

How do you land 150 strikes in a fight and run the entire fight? Condit was throwing a ton of strikes (Even Diaz noticed it with his "Now we doing spinning ****" comment during the fight.) If anything it was Diaz that was lackluster as he failed to have a plan B when his plan A was clearly not working.

I had seen both guys fight several times and I was basing my assumption that it would be a war after their styles and identity from their past fights. It had nothing to do with how the fight was hyped or certainly not from dana white.

There was action - I think we'll just agree to disagree, I saw Condit back pedaling the entire fight (aka running) and not trying to finish Diaz, either he was unwilling to exchange with him because he was scared or that was what his corner had told him he should do (I believe him when he said this).

It reminded alot of mayweather vs de lahoya .. . .but you I do agree 100% with you that Diaz shouldve made adjustments- it would have been nice if he would have tried getting him to the ground cause obviously he wasnt prepared for this type of fight

[Bad_Intentions]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

I don't think he had Diaz hurt to the point where he was set up for a finish. Diaz can take loads of punishment and has an iron chin. It appeared that Diaz wanted to corner Condit against the cage and not stand toe to toe with him in the center of the octagon. Condit couldn't stop Diaz from plodding forward(not sure if anyone in the division can) so he picked his shots, circled away and got back to the center of the octagon and reset. Diaz just kept pressing him into the cage. Smart move on Condit's part, but it seemed to me like he was more than willing to exchange in the center of the octagon.

[jeremym480]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

I had seen both guys fight several times and I was basing my assumption that it would be a war after their styles and identity from their past fights. It had nothing to do with how the fight was hyped or certainly not from dana white.

There was action - I think we'll just agree to disagree, I saw Condit back pedaling the entire fight (aka running) and not trying to finish Diaz, either he was unwilling to exchange with him because he was scared or that was what his corner had told him he should do (I believe him when he said this).

It reminded alot of mayweather vs de lahoya .. . .but you I do agree 100% with you that Diaz shouldve made adjustments- it would have been nice if he would have tried getting him to the ground cause obviously he wasnt prepared for this type of fight

Unwilling to exchange? Condit was by far the more active striker, how was he unwilling to exchange? If anyone is to blame it should be Diaz and his corner for not adjusting to what was going on sooner. I think that Nick thought that having "octagon control" was enough to get him the decision. Nate clearly thought that, as you could hear him tell Nick he was winning 3 to 1 after the 4th round. I believe that normally, octagon control plays a huge role in the judges eyes. However, in this fight Condit was clearly the busier fighter despite Nick pressing forward. If Nick fights again (and by if I mean when), then he needs to take all the energy that he uses taunting and running his mouth and focus on winning the fight instead.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Well to be honest.....depending on who the judges are that night, having octagon control and being the one moving FORWARD throughout the fight WOULD get you the WIN.

But hey, every judge is different. That is why you don't leave it up to the judges.

[wyrm187]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Unwilling to exchange? Condit was by far the more active striker, how was he unwilling to exchange? If anyone is to blame it should be Diaz and his corner for not adjusting to what was going on sooner. I think that Nick thought that having "octagon control" was enough to get him the decision. Nate clearly thought that, as you could hear him tell Nick he was winning 3 to 1 after the 4th round. I believe that normally, octagon control plays a huge role in the judges eyes. However, in this fight Condit was clearly the busier fighter despite Nick pressing forward. If Nick fights again (and by if I mean when), then he needs to take all the energy that he uses taunting and running his mouth and focus on winning the fight instead.

I agree that diaz needed to adjust - maybe I have the wrong idea of exhanging - I thought exchanging was getting on the inside and trading blow for blow - I didn't think Condit wanted any part of the inside.

He stayed on the outside and peppered. When he knocked Hardy out they were exhanging punches no? I mean Hardy hit Condit as he Condit hit him .. ..I thought that was exchanging. You guys are right about Diaz making the adjustments - it wouldve made for a better fight - that hitting and running style is something Ive never seen Condit do before. I just expected a war and I didnt get it - I agree that both guys are to blame.

Like I said before - I haven't had much luck with the last few cards I've seen so Im laying off for a while. While this card was solid - the main event was what I was watching for and I was disappointed. I liked Renan Barao vs Scott Jorgensen and Werdum vs Nelson, even the Koshchek fight I thought was decent. This is going to happen where I dont get the epic brawl I was expecting, Ill lower my expecatations- I really felt like these guys were going to war but I was wrong.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

I think it's entirely possible to throw strikes and be on the run a majority of the fight. I don't hold that against Condit whatsoever, just pointing out that you can do both.

Neither guy proved himself the better fighter at all in my eyes. I can see either winning.