UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Nick definitely started to change his plan of attack in the fourth and fifth. He got tagged on a kick and I think his body language took a dip.

As far as entertainment, I could not have been more shocked at the lack of exchanges.

Part of that is Diaz's fault though. He refuses to trade in the center of the ring and Condit refused to trade close to the cage. They both wanted the fight where they wanted it and refused to change that strategy.

[Bad_Intentions]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

It's funny to me when people say Condit "ran". Look at the numbers, he STRUCK Diaz more than Diaz struck him. Isn't that the point of martial arts??? To hit your opponent while not getting hit yourself. Let's just call Lyoto Machida, Frankie Edgar, and Dominic Cruz "track stars" as well b/c they use similar techniques in ALL of their fights. This is the first time i've seen Condit use so much movement. Mainly b/c he knew what Diaz was excellent at and wanted to neutralize it. Did people want him to just stand in the pocket, bang with Diaz and lose and end up getting beaten to a pulp like BJ Penn did?? I don't understand why he would have fought Diaz's fight.

It's also not like he threw a jab then ran away. He was willing to engage Diaz in the middle of the octagon, but wisely avoided being backed into the cage where Diaz would just rip off big combos on him. He threw head kicks, elbows, spinning backfists, some hooks to the head, he mixed it up brilliantly IMO.

I mean really, why would he just go for broke and wildly try to KO Diaz in a wild brawl?? I don't think i've ever seen Diaz get KO'd. I don't see how people are criticizing him for fighting a damn good and smart fight.

Fight Metrics
Condit 159 strikes landed
Diaz 117

[Bad_Intentions]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

It's funny that when an MMA fighter utilizes great movement and avoids firefights he is considered a "runner" but when a boxer does it he is a skilled tactician aka Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[TheShizNo1]

It's funny that when an MMA fighter utilizes great movement and avoids firefights he is considered a "runner" but when a boxer does it he is a skilled tactician aka Floyd Mayweather Jr.

I agree w/ you and Aholbert, but this is nothing new. No different than when people say a football game with a lower score is not as good of a game that ends in high scoring.

Some people just don't understand the sport.

[thorne666]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Completely disagree. One Jackson's fighters actually don't do this. Jones finishes fights. Condit finished fights before last night's fight. Cerrone. Garcia. Even with GSP, that **** is overrated. I wish the ref or doctor would've stopped the Koscheck fight (which they should've of) so people would stop this GSP doesn't ever finish fights nonsense.

If anything Jackson watched his boy Cerrone get destroyed by the Diaz boxing style and knew the same style would kill Condit. Its a game plan and it worked well.

I want MMA fans to mature to the point where every fight doesn't have to be two guys standing in the cage and just punching each other. You can be an action fighter and still stick and move. Everybody talks about Diaz's boxing skills but Condit's movement and striking was more reminiscent of true boxing imo.

Sir,
The Jackson horses you mentioned are more inclined to dominate by default,so that is what they go out and do. But that is different argument.
with regards to last nights fight, this is how I see it : if nick decided to lay back and stop pursuit, there could have very well been no fight. Someone mentioned standing there and allowing Diaz to "pot shot". The same argument can be made for someone running away, with the interspersion of peck punches and kicks.
I too want the game to evolve,but there has to be a better way.
In my eyes this was a more of a sucker's strategy employed by a guy who actually has some skill.
If every elite took this approach, the sport might suffer tremendously.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Sir,
The Jackson horses you mentioned are more inclined to dominate by default,so that is what they go out and do. But that is different argument.
with regards to last nights fight, this is how I see it : if nick decided to lay back and stop pursuit, there could have very well been no fight. Someone mentioned standing there and allowing Diaz to "pot shot". The same argument can be made for someone running away, with the interspersion of peck punches and kicks.
I too want the game to evolve,but there has to be a better way.
In my eyes this was a more of a sucker's strategy employed by a guy who actually has some skill.
If every elite took this approach, the sport might suffer tremendously.

What other Jackson's fighters are you talking about? You said most Jackson's fighters strategy is to lay and pray and run. I named 5 of his best fighters and they all either get or try for finishes all the time.

That Diaz "pot shot" argument is stupid too in my opinion. He fights aggressively near the cage but rarely is willing to throw down in the middle of the cage. He did the same thing against Santos, Daley, Penn and now Condit. Thats Diaz's style.

If Diaz wouldve laid back he would've been picked apart from distance with kicks just like he was. The only difference would've been no one would be saying that Diaz won the decision. Again, Condit's strategy was a legit strategy that worked. The goal of any fight is to win. As long as you win AND are active (150 landed strikes and multiple spinning back fists and elbows makes you active) I'm fine with it.

[Coug00]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

What other Jackson's fighters are you talking about? You said most Jackson's fighters strategy is to lay and pray and run. I named 5 of his best fighters and they all either get or try for finishes all the time.

That Diaz "pot shot" argument is stupid too in my opinion. He fights aggressively near the cage but rarely is willing to throw down in the middle of the cage. He did the same thing against Santos, Daley, Penn and now Condit. Thats Diaz's style.

If Diaz wouldve laid back he would've been picked apart from distance with kicks just like he was. The only difference would've been no one would be saying that Diaz won the decision. Again, Condit's strategy was a legit strategy that worked. The goal of any fight is to win. As long as you win AND are active (150 landed strikes and multiple spinning back fists and elbows makes you active) I'm fine with it.

Absolutely that was a legit strategy. People can say he ran and Diaz controlled the ring, but I strongly disagree. To me, Octagon Control is controlling where and how the fight is fought. Condit wanted the fight to take place in space and Diaz wanted tight quarters. With that in mind, Condit controlled 99% of the fight and Diaz was not able to take that control except for the last minute of the 5th round.

And I don't agree with the sentiment of Condit point-fighting, especially when you see how aggressive he was in the center of the ring. When Diaz wasn't trying to shrink the Octagon (much of the 4th round), Condit was striking relentlessly and dominating. This is a guy who came into the fight with 27 career wins and only 1 by decision. Condit was simply the smarter and better fighter last night.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Dana is open to a Diaz/Condit rematch if GSP is out until November.

[p_rushing]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Dana is open to a Diaz/Condit rematch if GSP is out until November.

Condit doesn't really have anything to gain from fighting Diaz again other than maybe sending Diaz into retirement. If I was Condit, I would only do that fight or any other fight if the belt was not up for grabs. He could cost himself millions by taking that fight or any other fight and losing.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Condit doesn't really have anything to gain from fighting Diaz again other than maybe sending Diaz into retirement. If I was Condit, I would only do that fight or any other fight if the belt was not up for grabs. He could cost himself millions by taking that fight or any other fight and losing.

Condit made 100k for this fight. Give him 300k plus PPV participation and I could see him taking the rematch. Especially when a Ellenberger fight won't exactly sell any PPVs.

I don't think Dana will let Carlos sit out for 9 months when he needs main events for his ppvs in the summer.

[beanman25]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Agree with aholbert. You need main eventers, carlos is going to have to fight atleast once in the summer.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Yeah no fighter wants to wait 9 months to fight again. That is way too long of a lay off. So more then likely we will see a Diaz vs Condit 2 in June or July.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

Yeah no fighter wants to wait 9 months to fight again. That is way too long of a lay off. So more then likely we will see a Diaz vs Condit 2 in June or July.

Diaz acted like a 4 year old and quit when he was out worked. Even if Diaz comes back, he should need 1 more fight before getting Condit or GSP. Give Diaz Koscheck before putting him back in the title/interim title picture.

[wyrm187]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

I went in rooting for Condit - I felt like I was watching a mayweather fight and was getting frustrated for Diaz. I've been disappointed with the last few fights I've paid for - Ill just watch the replays from now on, Im not spending any more money on these for a while.

Maybe Im not a real MMA fan, I dont know - but I do know that I am a fight fan and I've always enjoyed two guys leaving it all out there and actually fighting. I personally just never want to see a guy win a fight the way condit did - to me that's not fighting but to each his own, I guess

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 143- Condit v. Diaz - Februrary 4

I went in rooting for Condit - I felt like I was watching a mayweather fight and was getting frustrated for Diaz. I've been disappointed with the last few fights I've paid for - Ill just watch the replays from now on, Im not spending any more money on these for a while.

Maybe Im not a real MMA fan, I dont know - but I do know that I am a fight fan and I've always enjoyed two guys leaving it all out there and actually fighting. I personally just never want to see a guy win a fight the way condit did - to me that's not fighting but to each his own, I guess

No offense but that right there is the problem. The UFC has promoted the sport with highlight KOs and highlight reels of fights like Silva/Liddell but thats not the only or even a main aspect of the sport. There is a science to this sport. There are gameplans. If Diaz (and his corner) was smart he wouldve realized around round 3 that Condit wasnt getting tired, that his pressure gameplan wasnt working and that he needed to use his striking to get takedowns. If Diaz scored a takedown earlier and worked his BJJ, we probably wouldnt have this discussion.

I'm not going to begrudge Condit the way he fought. It seems like the majority of people wanted Condit to go in there, let Diaz bully him into the cage, trade punches with him and get finished. BJ Penn did that and probably ended his career with that approach. So did Frank Shamrock. So did Cyborg Santos. The list goes on and on. This is like people complaining that someone didnt let GSP take them down. Why would you fight someone in a way they are most comfortable?

Finally, Fans in general have such short memories. December gave us great cards with Rua/Henderson and Jones/Machida. Just 3 weeks ago, the Aldo card was great. It ebbs and flows.