Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

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  • brandon27
    MVP
    • Aug 2008
    • 1979

    #151
    Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

    The more I play, the more obvious it becomes that there is an issue.

    There's just too many instances where an OL glitches in his stance after the snap blocking nobody, too many instances where the OL doesn't glitch out in his stance, actually gets up, but the DL is already blown by him hitting the RB before the handoff. There's too many wildly fast defensive players running around as if momentum, weight, and physics mean nothing to them and their footwork. They're just on a perfectly timed, and perfectly angled pursuit to make the tackle as if it's pre-determined.

    That's not an issue of not "reading" your run plays correctly, that's an AI issue. AI that's programmed to be super human to make the run game difficult, sacrificing realism IMO.

    Just go watch some of the replays of the plays you're getting stuffed immediately post hand off. There's things happening that just shouldnt be, and don't happen in NFL games. Guys do get beat, and plays do get blown up, but not at the rate they do in this game so far. The backside pursuits that get you on a run play going the opposite direction, they always seem to result in a TFL simply because your RB gets "stuck" after the handoff and doesn't run.

    I'm having a decent game right now, Minny (me) versus Detroit (CPU). I'm at 48 yards on 13 carries for Cook. So, I'm putting in an ok game here running the ball, but still, too many times you see the same issues that clearly to me, are programming and AI issues, not simply getting beat by better teams, players, and/or playcalls.

    What kills me most about this game, I feel like the human controlled players finally feel like they have some weight to them. It's really a good feeling IMO. However that all goes out the window the second you watch the AI players flying around on the field without the same effects. I'll never understand why Madden can't have every player playing under the same set of "rules". NHL has been the same way the last few years too, it's frustrating to say the least. I assume it's tied to difficulty levels, they don't actually make the game harder or easier, they just seem to boost the CPU players to more super human levels.

    They've got to clean this stuff up IMO. I want to see CPU players suffering the same effects as changes of direction and starting and stopping do on my players.
    Miami Dolphins - Detroit Red Wings - Toronto Blue Jays - Michigan Wolverines - CANADA

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    • nike23EA
      Rookie
      • Jun 2004
      • 39

      #152
      Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

      Originally posted by Chubzdoomer
      I'm a new player (last Madden I played was '13 on the Vita, and before that '08 on PC) and thus far I haven't had much success with running the ball at all. Either I get crushed in the backfield the moment the handoff takes place or I pick up 2 or 3 yards before being swallowed by the defensive line/linebackers. Sometimes the "push the pile" feature kicks in and I get an extra yard or two, but half the time it doesn't help me at all.

      I'm sure it'll get a lot better as I gain experience, but this is easily the most difficult Madden game I've played to date when it comes to running the ball. Maybe that means mastering it will feel extra satisfying? I sure hope so.
      After the update the running game on the player side really went down hill and i see a lot of the cpu defense in the backfield almost instant like you describe or finally hitting a hold only to be warp grabbed by a defender when there would be no way possible for him to do so in a real game. Also now see on pitches and lead toss plays where the lead blockers just continue to run parallel instead of attacking the defender and blocking anyone or he chip blocks him and continues to move on to block no one.

      The run game was just fine before they tuned stuff in the update and was pretty fair and rewarding IMO...but right now it is poo. This is in MUT game as thats where ive spent the most time to have an accurate opinion on how the game played before and after. Also means no slider adjustments to fix it and its not a team player card issue or a case of not having good players the team is 83 ovr with all elites and powered up cards...im seeing this on rookie and pro (not gotten to any higher tiered stuff yet) so its kind of disappointing the game play running wise went from enjoyable to ridiculously dumb and took a step backwards.

      Comment

      • brandon27
        MVP
        • Aug 2008
        • 1979

        #153
        Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

        I wish I had the ability to upload videos. Playing as the Steelers now, vs Bengals. Call a run play, have favorable matchups to the right side, where I'm running. Snap the ball, my LG steps off the line to pull to the right side, Pouncey at C just sort of shifts a bit left to fill the void of the pulling LG, but rather than blocking the DT just stands there with his hands in the air waiting for someone to block as the DT runs right by him to hit me with the backside pressure just after Bell gets the handoff.

        That, is nothing more than poor OL logic IMO. In a nutshell, that's what I see a ton of in the running game. It's got to get fixed.
        Miami Dolphins - Detroit Red Wings - Toronto Blue Jays - Michigan Wolverines - CANADA

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        • kiddlex
          Pro
          • Apr 2003
          • 628

          #154
          Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

          Originally posted by brandon27
          I wish I had the ability to upload videos. Playing as the Steelers now, vs Bengals. Call a run play, have favorable matchups to the right side, where I'm running. Snap the ball, my LG steps off the line to pull to the right side, Pouncey at C just sort of shifts a bit left to fill the void of the pulling LG, but rather than blocking the DT just stands there with his hands in the air waiting for someone to block as the DT runs right by him to hit me with the backside pressure just after Bell gets the handoff.

          That, is nothing more than poor OL logic IMO. In a nutshell, that's what I see a ton of in the running game. It's got to get fixed.
          I’m seeing the same things for the cpu too. I’m curious if the people that are seeing adequate run games are playing play now games, and those of us with the issues are in CFM? I only play franchise games, and the run game (cpu especially) is abysmal because of the type of plays you just described.

          Comment

          • brandon27
            MVP
            • Aug 2008
            • 1979

            #155
            Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

            Originally posted by kiddlex
            I’m seeing the same things for the cpu too. I’m curious if the people that are seeing adequate run games are playing play now games, and those of us with the issues are in CFM? I only play franchise games, and the run game (cpu especially) is abysmal because of the type of plays you just described.

            Ive only played play now games during the EA Access trial
            Miami Dolphins - Detroit Red Wings - Toronto Blue Jays - Michigan Wolverines - CANADA

            Comment

            • edgevoice
              MVP
              • Sep 2008
              • 1199

              #156
              Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

              Originally posted by brandon27
              I wish I had the ability to upload videos. Playing as the Steelers now, vs Bengals. Call a run play, have favorable matchups to the right side, where I'm running. Snap the ball, my LG steps off the line to pull to the right side, Pouncey at C just sort of shifts a bit left to fill the void of the pulling LG, but rather than blocking the DT just stands there with his hands in the air waiting for someone to block as the DT runs right by him to hit me with the backside pressure just after Bell gets the handoff.

              That, is nothing more than poor OL logic IMO. In a nutshell, that's what I see a ton of in the running game. It's got to get fixed.
              Feeq14 posted this link on another thread that illustrates what you describe. Hopefully this gets cleaned up.

              Comment

              • kiddlex
                Pro
                • Apr 2003
                • 628

                #157
                Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                Mystery solved in record time. 👍 Now we need to solve the cpu run game riddle and we are on to something. 😃

                Comment

                • brandon27
                  MVP
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 1979

                  #158
                  Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                  I've been critical of the Human run game, that's for sure. Of course most of that seems to be based on some clear AI issues that need patching. However, I do want to say this.

                  It's different than we're used to, especially from a control standpoint. Once you kind of get the hang of the one cut stuff, acceleration, and control of your player after the fact, you can really make some things happen. So, I do urge you guys to take the time and try and master it.

                  We've been crying for ratings to matter for a long time. I feel they do matter with respect to the OL play. I struggle to run with my Dolphins. I play as a team with a better OL, and I have more success. To me, that's a good thing to see that difference that is rating based.

                  If they can clean up the issues that are present, and I think once people get the hang of the new way to run, people will adjust and get used to it. Now that I've gotten the hang of it, I'm having more success, but it still has some AI issues IMO.

                  That being said, it still makes me a bit sad/frustrated that we have this nice new system that prevents players from making super human cuts on a dime without losing speed, but those never affect the CPU controlled players. I just watched a play where I called playaction, the DL ran right by my LG (Josh Sitton) who didn't even try and block him, then ran right down the LOS as he bit on the playfake and ran towards my RB, then instantly without losing any speed whatsoever turned 90 degrees essentially still heading full speed ahead at my QB. That, is inexcusable IMO with the way the system handles human controlled movements. You can't do that anymore, so why can the CPU?

                  I guess that's another issue for another thread... but the point still remains, keep working on the run game, get used to that one cut move, and when you see the hole, and get the hang of the timing it will click.
                  Miami Dolphins - Detroit Red Wings - Toronto Blue Jays - Michigan Wolverines - CANADA

                  Comment

                  • roadman
                    *ll St*r
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 26339

                    #159
                    Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                    They are looking into CPU run game:


                    I'll ask again,@ClintOldenburg. Are there any fixes coming to the ball carrier decisions of AI RBs and decisions to scramble/throw the ball away in M19?


                    Clint Oldenburg



                    Replying to @Bills4th
                    We’ll look into it

                    Comment

                    • feeq14
                      MVP
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 3526

                      #160
                      Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                      Fyi when I put it on normal speed the run blocking glitch stopped

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                      • edgevoice
                        MVP
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1199

                        #161
                        Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                        Originally posted by feeq14
                        Fyi when I put it on normal speed the run blocking glitch stopped
                        Amen to that. By the way, were there certain types of running plays, formations, etc that you were noticing this center glitch or was it global? Thanks.

                        Comment

                        • Cowboy008
                          MVP
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 4574

                          #162
                          Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                          Bell and Cohen ran for over 100 yards on my defense in franchise mode after setting threshold to 25, face mask at 42, user and cpu fumbles at 55, user tackling at 30, and cpu run blocking at 80. Going to play more with this set up later today but from the small sample size it’s a good sign. Only other thing I need to adjust is user run blocking since it seems too easy now.

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                          • kiddlex
                            Pro
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 628

                            #163
                            Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                            Originally posted by Cowboy008
                            Bell and Cohen ran for over 100 yards on my defense in franchise mode after setting threshold to 25, face mask at 42, user and cpu fumbles at 55, user tackling at 30, and cpu run blocking at 80. Going to play more with this set up later today but from the small sample size it’s a good sign. Only other thing I need to adjust is user run blocking since it seems too easy now.
                            Game hasn’t officially launched yet and read all of your adjustments to make the cpu running game semi-realistic. I’m going to shelve it until it’s inevitably addressed. No chance it was designed this way.

                            Comment

                            • Darth Aegis
                              Lord of Suffering
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 4169

                              #164
                              Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                              Originally posted by Cowboy008
                              Bell and Cohen ran for over 100 yards on my defense in franchise mode after setting threshold to 25, face mask at 42, user and cpu fumbles at 55, user tackling at 30, and cpu run blocking at 80. Going to play more with this set up later today but from the small sample size it’s a good sign. Only other thing I need to adjust is user run blocking since it seems too easy now.
                              Good stuff! I appreciate your sharing your findings.
                              OS needs a Thumbs DOWN button

                              Playing:

                              Comment

                              • feeq14
                                MVP
                                • Jun 2004
                                • 3526

                                #165
                                Re: Anyone find any semblance of a running game yet?

                                It happened on every run play, but it was most noticeable on any inside handoff plays out of single back. I think the center just doesn't know who to block for whatever reason. I upped it to normal speed and then upped rblock to 65 and my above average beats line in year 2 gashed a below average run defense for 180 yards on 36 carries the next game.

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