Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

[bkrich83]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I think those of us that support Vick needs to let it go. Vick is going to jail because he is stupid. If it wasn't dog fighting it would been something else. Let him serve his time and get on with his life. I am sad seeing someone from my community going to prison but he did it to himself. This post is my personal closure.

Peace

I agree, it is sad. It's a huge waste, and was completely unnecessary. Hopefully down the road a young athlete headed down the same path will choose to learn from this and avoid committing the same kinds of mistakes.

[mgoblue]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Does that make it any more better that a butcher can slaughter animals because they use clinical practices? And who said the dogs were forced to fight? They were breeded, raised and trained to fight. I can think of plenty examples of humans being forced to fight but thats an entirely different conversation as we all know.

Yes, it does...if you can't see the difference between a quick and painless death vs. jamming some electrodes in something before it dies (or holding it underwater until it dies) then I don't know what to tell you.

I personally don't think it's right to train them to fight either. I also have a friend with 3 pitbulls and they're the sweetest non-fighting dogs. IMO it's training them to fight that causes all the issues where they attack children. Those breeders and trainers are horrible for the breed. How would you feel if one of Vick's dogs ripped out your daughter's throat? It was just doing what it was trained to do, can't blame the dog can you?

[realtalktruth]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

but thats the point, pitbulls who are not trained to be dog fighters attack other people too. as a matter of fact a lot of dogs do. besides when you run over a raccoon or a dog in the street you are not arrested for manslaughter. why not? be cause they are not men.

[Graphik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Graphic, you honestly don't believe that "the hurt a person feels over losing an animal is artificial," do you? hurt is never artificial, especially if you are feeling it. I guess the question would be is the hurt rooted in something tangible, and what is tangible varies from person to person.

I think alot of people are missing the point here. Laws are written to conform and apply to the social norms and mores of any given society. In India it is illegal to kill and or consume cows, they are sacred. That is the belief system of that society. In the middle east, women are viewed as second class citizens, or better put, according their belief system are treated differently than they are here (what is considered second class is debatable depending on what you believe).

In the USA, hunting, in most jurisdictions is legal, eating cows is legal, women walking around with their hair uncovered is legal, fighting dogs is not legal. Vick knew that this practice was illegal, he participated in this illegal practice knowingly and with full consent. Also, he admitted to actually killing dogs. He got caught, admitted guilt and was punished according to federal sentencing guidelines.

Dogs, are domesticated animals (pets, along with other animals) which means they are welcomed and treated as part of peoples families, they are given certain human characteristics in regards to how they are treated, such as, dog salons, dog sweaters and actual birth certificates, etc. They are considered police officers, and you will be charged with assaulting an officer (in certain jurisdictions) if you should kick and or harm one while it is on duty, we all are aware of these things. Now we should question the whole legal process, the good standing and social equity that dogs have enjoyed and earned for thousands of years because Vick got sentenced to 23 months, which is middle of the rode according to what he could have got. Hilarious. In the words of the theme song to Baretta, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

Your first paragraph is a much better explaination than what I was saying. Also, this is a good post. I never mentioned that he didn't deserve to go to jail. I understand he was punished because he broke the law. My whole point is that its much to harsh to punish this guy while Dice posted that a guy who only got 5 years for admittingly murdering his wife. It shows how screwed up our contires priorities are. We'd rather shun and smear a guy who kills these poor, defensless animals than a guy who takes another human beings life.

[bkrich83]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

but thats the point, pitbulls who are not trained to be dog fighters attack other people too. as a matter of fact a lot of dogs do. besides when you run over a raccoon or a dog in the street you are not arrested for manslaughter. why not? be cause they are not men.

Please stop. It's embarrassing.

[Graphik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I think those of us that support Vick needs to let it go. Vick is going to jail because he is stupid. If it wasn't dog fighting it would been something else. Let him serve his time and get on with his life. I am sad seeing someone from my community going to prison but he did it to himself. This post is my personal closure.

Peace

Pretty much the only explaination that needs to be read in this thread. Really.

[aholbert32]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I gotta be honest. These Vick threads are some of the most useless threads I've ever seen on this board. Its the same people on each side arguing the same things and all are a little biased. The majority of the ones arguing that Vick got the right amount of time are either guys who hated Vick as an athlete, dog owners and lovers and/or staunch law and order types. The majority of people supporting Vick are blind Vick fans, non dog/pet owners (like myself) and/or the type who will argue "injustice" anytime someone famous in their race gets convicted of anything.

I swear if some of you took the time to search for the old Vick threads, you would realize that everyone is arguing the same points they did when this story first broke and when he plead guilty. No one is going to change their minds here.

[wwharton]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Getting serious again for a second, it is also possible to say that Vick isn't a victim and at the same time state that there is some hypocrisy in this entire thing. That's pretty much the position I take.

This is being lost on many who are so emotionally in raged by the thought of dog fighting/dog's dying they are ignoring what many have to say and labeling them as saying something else. It's just like the last Vick thread.

It's only dogs...essentially what Vick and his buddies did is on the same level as them putting a cap in your family dog's head. It's only a dog, right? Why would you be sad? It's not a human. God forbid someone form some sort of attachment with an animal...

Eh, I'm done with this discussion, I'll agree to disagree...I just think this is way different than cows and other food because they were being FORCED to fight, and then tortured before dying via very inhumane ways (electrocution, other things). To say that's just the same as what butchers do is very uninformed.

It's nothing like putting a cap in the family dog's head. It's not even in the same universe. I was trying to stay out of this but some are missing some good points to the counter argument (while focusing only on the over the top ones). The dogs involved in dog fights are bred specifically for that reason and trained pretty much from birth to be killers. At no time are they intended to be "the family pet" which is why many of the dogs the FBI claimed were put down anyway. To get a better understanding of some of the different opinions here, this point is important. The breeding of the dogs is the bigger crime, essentially creating these killing creatures. The animals they had fighting can't be compared to anything you'd pick up from a shelter or let sleep at the foot of your bed.

What happens after these "monsters" are made is already inevitable. It doesn't make any sense to pull up psychological studies of how close this is to killing a human or even how someone can enjoy killing an animal in general. These dogs have no use in society and are nothing but a danger to everyone around them. If they can no longer fight, they must be put down just as the FBI did when they took the live dogs from Vick's place.

Dave360, you point out the only "humane" way to kill a dog. Now please explain how someone running an illegal dog ring would get a hold of those things needed to be humane. Electrocuting, drowning, etc. are horrible ways to kill a dog but that has nothing to do with whether or not a dog fighter enjoys killing them that way or enjoys killing them at all. It's a necessary part of the sport. Is it right? Of course not, it's disgusting and deserves punishment... but think of it like this. If I robbed a store and the clerk pulled out a gun and I shot and killed him I deserve to be charged for murder, but it doesn't mean I'm likely to run around killing people for sport since it happened.

By the way, everyone should be more informed in terms of what happens with the animals we eat. They are kept in horrible conditions and killed in very inhumane ways. Many people are vegetarians b/c of that specifically but most of us don't care. Who here cares that chickens today die a slow death by having their necks slit, essentially bleeding to death just so we don't see a little blood when we pick up our breasts or legs at the grocery store? Just because it's not public knowledge doesn't mean it's better conditions... people didn't know anything about dog fighting until this Vick thing when it's been around for decades if not centuries.

Because dogs are domesticated pets. They have been pets for hundreds(if not thousands) of years. When was the last time you heard of someone having a cow for pet?

Do some research, cows are not only considered pets in many places, some are actually worshiped. Meanwhile dogs are also used as food in other places. Dogs have also been used for fighting legally for hundreds, if not thousands of years. This is the problem some of us have. Guys like Soldier, Graphik, etc. It's not about whether Vick was stupid, whether he shouldn't be convicted for the crime (maybe the amount of time but that's a different story) or even whether or not dog fighting is a disgusting practice. It's all the judgments that are so clearly hypocritical that make no sense.

If Vick IS a victim, it's only in terms of the lynch mob that want him mauled to death, raped in jail or given a longer term than someone would get for murder. BK, you say his sentencing is about right (I agree given his funding of the project, not cooperating fully, smoking weed and lying to a federal judge) and you have an argument against others who are saying it should be less. You should also take a closer look at the posts that think he should've gotten more time and their reasoning. Then you'll understand better where some of the other guys like Graphik and Soldier are coming from.

[bkrich83]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I gotta be honest. These Vick threads are some of the most useless threads I've ever seen on this board. Its the same people on each side arguing the same things and all are a little biased. The majority of the ones arguing that Vick got the right amount of time are either guys who hated Vick as an athlete, dog owners and lovers and/or staunch law and order types. The majority of people supporting Vick are blind Vick fans, non dog/pet owners (like myself) and/or the type who will argue "injustice" anytime someone famous in their race gets convicted of anything.

I swear if some of you took the time to search for the old Vick threads, you would realize that everyone is arguing the same points they did when this story first broke and when he plead guilty. No one is going to change their minds here.

Aaron, what do you think would have been the just punishment, all things considered?

[Graphik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Yes, it does...if you can't see the difference between a quick and painless death vs. jamming some electrodes in something before it dies (or holding it underwater until it dies) then I don't know what to tell you.

I personally don't think it's right to train them to fight either. I also have a friend with 3 pitbulls and they're the sweetest non-fighting dogs. IMO it's training them to fight that causes all the issues where they attack children. Those breeders and trainers are horrible for the breed. How would you feel if one of Vick's dogs ripped out your daughter's throat? It was just doing what it was trained to do, can't blame the dog can you?

Hey, I never said dogfighting is ok or that I agree with it. I find it really harsh to punish a man for that long because he killed some animals. Vick breaking the law and serving time I have no problem with.

[realtalktruth]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Please stop. It's embarrassing.

its embarrassing for me to be spouting the truth? where are the animal rights activists? animals are being discriminated against and some animals have more rights then others. you don't see PETA lobbying for animal rights do you? nah i didn't think so because they say that they love animals so much but they are not trying to make them on a humans level. whats more i keep hearing the same excuses about how chickens, turkey, and cows are much different then dogs because we kill them to eat. so what dogs and cats get more rights then them because they taste good?

[aholbert32]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Aaron, what do you think would have been the just punishment, all things considered?

What the prosecution offered which was 18 mos. The extra 6 mos was because of the press attention that this case brings and the judge wanted to put on a show. I wouldnt be surprised if the Judge wrote a book after this. Fed judges usually go with whatever the prosecution offers.

[bkrich83]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

BK, you say his sentencing is about right (I agree given his funding of the project, not cooperating fully, smoking weed and lying to a federal judge) and you have an argument against others who are saying it should be less. You should also take a closer look at the posts that think he should've gotten more time and their reasoning. Then you'll understand better where some of the other guys like Graphik and Soldier are coming from.

I've seen them. I think a lot of them are way out there. But to try to counter something extreme with an argument, that "they are just dogs" is just as extreme imo. I also don't like the well it's not that bad, or other people do it excuse, as if that makes what he did ok. To me that's nothing more than a cheap deflection ploy. Maybe it's just me

[Psyblast]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I gotta be honest. These Vick threads are some of the most useless threads I've ever seen on this board. Its the same people on each side arguing the same things and all are a little biased. The majority of the ones arguing that Vick got the right amount of time are either guys who hated Vick as an athlete, dog owners and lovers and/or staunch law and order types. The majority of people supporting Vick are blind Vick fans, non dog/pet owners (like myself) and/or the type who will argue "injustice" anytime someone famous in their race gets convicted of anything.

I swear if some of you took the time to search for the old Vick threads, you would realize that everyone is arguing the same points they did when this story first broke and when he plead guilty. No one is going to change their minds here.

Agreed.

The only difference is motorcrossman isn't spewing his nonsense here anymore.

Other than that, exactly the same. I've never seen so much discussion go nowhere in particular.

[aholbert32]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

its embarrassing for me to be spouting the truth? where are the animal rights activists? animals are being discriminated against and some animals have more rights then others. you don't see PETA lobbying for animal rights do you? nah i didn't think so because they say that they love animals so much but they are not trying to make them on a humans level. whats more i keep hearing the same excuses about how chickens, turkey, and cows are much different then dogs because we kill them to eat. so what dogs and cats get more rights then them because they taste good?

Just stop. Peta is constantly protesting fast food companies for the way they treat Cows, chickens etc.